Abortion : For Or Against Abortion? Share ur views on ABORTION?

[icemarle 0]

It's killing another human being, and a helpless one at that. So what if it's still a zygote? It's now a living cell. No matter how small it is, or how helpless and "unhuman" it may seem. It still is another living person! If for some reason, someone gets to bear a child against their will, and don't wish to take care of it, they should at least put it up for adoption and think about what's best for the child. The annoying thing about human nature is that because it doesn't LOOK bad, they should do it. They may say, "What's wrong with killing an undeveloped baby?" However you may look at it, it's still a human being, you don't need a heart or a brain for it! If you say that the child would have a worse time alive than dead, and you're saying you're doing them a favor, then why not put the child up for adoption to someone who can love them and take care of them? If you wish to become a murderer, then that's your choice. But it's still human. The child did no wrong! What did it deserve to be killed before he/she was born!? If you choose to do this cruel alternative, you have become a heartless killer. The child didn't do anything to you. He/she was created by chance and meant you no harm. He/she was there expecting that s/he will be born and loved by a family. It's murder. Plain and simple. So you'd rather kill a child for your convinience... If you plan to abort someone, you're just thinking of yourself. You only care about comfort and never thought of suffering for someone who did you no harm (namely the baby). If you have been raped and yes, I know how horrible this can be... There are better alternatives to abortion. Just remember... That child did no hard to you. Why should you do harm to him/her? I didn't expect I'll rant here, but sigh... It's a pretty controversial topic.

[Razor 0]

Most people who find it wrong...i think find it wrong because it is taking away the opertunity for a potential human being...some people think its a human as soon as the sperm meets the egg.....which is what i belive...but on terms of abortion i dont think it should be done after the nerv systems are formed...because thats when pain can be ommited if you know what i mean...

[alfredglenstein 0]

I have talked long and often with several people from a christian business that handled plants. As we worked (because I worked there), one companion asked me what I thought of it, and I quickly got around the "pro-abortion tag" (which thankfully, has now been killed. Have to admit it was a pretty successful tactic, though.) I think you may have heard this characterization of it before, but I think it ought to be safe, legal, and rare. When I talked to my christian friends, I had to allow myself that there could POSSIBLY be situations in which it is the right thing to do. In instances of rape, incest, imminent personal safety, it should be beyond debate (though amazingly, there is legislation in South Dakota right now that is supposed to apparently universally ban abortion, including those cases of rape, incest, and in debates conservatives seem only grudgingly accept this.) But beyond those simple instances, I think abortions (if and when necessary and all of those preconditions) can have justification beyond just rape and imminent threat to health, but the argument from here becomes remarkably unfair when the abortion defender has to have the burden of proof layed upon them, because it is so hard to produce in yourself the intellectual power to reach into the circumstances of what that life where abortion is neccesary is like, and accurately represent them. How do you tell someone that an environment would be so bad for a child to live in that they ought not live at all? How do you clearly talk about the fact that we are ALL lucky to be here and how people you couldn't imagine life without very easily could have never existed?It's a remarkably unfair burden of proof that I think, when this gap is almost unavoidably unnaccounted for, urges anti-abortionists to make the "absence of evidence is evidence of absence" fallacy.But my bottom line will have to be this- there are circumstances where abortion will have to happen. There are hard decisions of many varieties that we all encounter, but rarely talk about. I think this is the reason why the solid ground on which abortion stands is so seldom represented.

[Kim 0]

Not that I am for abortion but mice have brains too. Should they be entitled to all the rights as people? 28 weeks is an arbitrary definition.

A mouse fetus is still a mouse fetus, not a human fetus. And no matter how big a brain a mouse has, it's still not human.

[Zythrix 0]

A: If it's not your body or your fetus.. then it's not your business what's done with it.

 

B: Your beliefs are your beliefs and shouldn't be forced on someone else. It's only your job to follow through on your own beliefs.. not make sure everyone else follows through on your beliefs.

 

C: Anybody who says "It isn't right.. just put it up for adoption" has never had to do such a thing. It's harder than that. It's not just "Oh well I dont want it but I'm just gonna carry it for 9 months and give it away." .. you form attachments that can be mentally damaging to break.

 

D: I know people say "If you aren't responsible enough to raise a child you shouldn't be having sex". That's absolute crap =/. Sexuall intercourse and reproduction are basic functions of life. Both for pleasure and carrying on a family. I'm sure most of the people that have abortions aren't just running around having sex at random just so they can get a baby and kill it. It's usually from accidents like condoms breaking or birth control not working. I think that makes them resposible enough.

 

E: Often abortion can be better for the child than the life it could possibly have with some parents. For instance, would you suggest a child be put up for adoption if it has to be borne by a young crackhead girl living on the streets? It would come out disabled and never really have a full life. That to me is torture.

 

F: This whole "it's still a life even though it's a fetus" thing is ridiculous. By that reasoning, a sperm is still a life and shouldn't be killed. Do you realize how many innocent babies are killed every minute because the one stronger sperm made it to the egg first?!?!? Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of babies killed during masturbation. Think those claims are ridiculous? Not any moreso than a fetus being a life.

 

The way I see it, it doesn't matter what my opinion is on the issue of abortion. I'm a male and it is only up to the woman in the situation to make the decision and nobody... !!!NOBODY!!! should think less of her for it.

 

If my views offend you enough to make you angry with me, please PM your thoughts to me rather than posting them here on this thread and wasting other members' time. I have already stated my piece and won't be checking back on it.

Edited February 25, 2006 by Zythrix (see edit history)

[JasperIk 0]

F: This whole "it's still a life even though it's a fetus" thing is ridiculous. By that reasoning, a sperm is still a life and shouldn't be killed. Do you realize how many innocent babies are killed every minute because the one stronger sperm made it to the egg first?!?!? Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of babies killed during masturbation. Think those claims are ridiculous? Not any moreso than a fetus being a life.

A sperm is not a life, an Egg is not a life, they are both half of a life, and when put together they form life. So your whole statement didn't make any sense. The reproduction system is smart, and the man produces a lot more sperm, because not all of them make it... if the man produced just one sperm at a time... well life probably wouldn't exist, the reproduction system knows a lot of sperm will be 'sacrificed' just to get to the egg. And because of this, how difficult it is to even concieve a child, wouldn't you want to keep it, knowing its a 'miracle' you were even capable of forming life?


On another note for people saying its the woman's right. Well isnt it my right as a human to be able to get married? But because im gay, in most states i am not allowed to, but its mostly legal to kill a baby? So isn't it the baby's right to live? Or what about this one, i think animal testing is wrong, even with science using mice.... wouldn't it be the animals right to not be used for testing? So the animal isnt a 'human' but it still has a heart, and eyes, and a brain. Would it be right for a mother to decide she doesn't want her kid anymore, and murder their child after they gave birth...what is the difference? I don't see one. But you say its the woman's right....well a lot of people/animals deserve rights, but don't get any...so why should the mother have a right to kill her baby?
Edited February 25, 2006 by JasperIk (see edit history)

[Thorned Rose 0]

Has anyone actually watched those videos I posted or have you all been too chicken s***.
I've been through the process of adoption and it's no where near as bad as abortion.

[JasperIk 0]

Has anyone actually watched those videos I posted or have you all been too chicken s***.I've been through the process of adoption and it's no where near as bad as abortion.

I haven't watched the videos, because i already know its an awful thing. I don't need videos to make my opinions be against abortion, i am already against it. But i bet a lot of people who are for it, are probably too chicken to actually watch them, because they might grow a heart and feel bad.

[Thorned Rose 0]

And good on you too JasperIk, I wouldn't watch them either (even though I've seen them and much much more) but I would most definitley challenge any Pro-choicer to watch them and remain unmoved!

 

That is a CHALLENGE to pro-choicers.

 

Watch it unless of course you are too afraid of reality. Pro-choicers are living in a dreamworld. If you disagree, then watch and see reality. As I said before, you can't talk about something unless you know all the facts and until you have actually seen an abortion you can't argue for or against as you don't really know what you are talking about.

If you are really adamant in your beliefs that abortion is ok, watch them because obviously you have nothing to fear from them. On the other hand, if you are too chicken then I fail to see how you have any right to an opinion on it! That's my challenge to you all!

Edited February 26, 2006 by Thorned Rose (see edit history)

[BuffaloHelp 24]

Effective immediately, if you cannot control your tone to respectful discussion or cannot control your language, warnings will be issued regardless of your member status.

 

At all times, remember that you are expressing your opinions and not fighting the war against/for abortion. This is the place to exchange ideas and not 'I'm right and you're wrong.'

 

Moving to Debates and will be closely watched.

[wariorpk 0]

I am against abortions unless something really bad could happen if the baby is born like if the mother's life is in serious danger or if the baby would have a serious birth defect that can not be cured (like if its lungs did not work very well and had a very good chance of not even living very long after being born). Studies have shown that the baby responds to things such as music before they are born so the baby is a living thing. So if you think that it is not yet a human life it is. I think that every life is valuable no matter how small or young it is.

[Thorned Rose 0]

We're you meanining my post, Buffalo, or peoples any general? At any rate, I've toned down my last post.And I agree wariorpk. Life is life and all life deserves the right to live. It is only human arrogance and superiority that dictates if something has the right to live and since when have human beings become gods?

[sasuki 0]

i'm for but only in the beginning of pregnancy...because it's a choice like any other, that concerns specially the mother, while the embrio's heart is not beating by his own will.

[leeleelee 0]

Abortion in Australia In 1990, 23 per cent of all known pregnancies in Australia were terminated. This makes abortion one of the most common surgical procedures in the country, with around 80,000 women undergoing abortion every year. Our current ratio of one abortion in every four pregnancies is an improvement over the estimated one in three recorded in Australia in the 1930s. Comparatively speaking, Australia's abortion rate is reasonably low by international standards. For instance, the United States of America has a 30 per cent abortion rate, while countries such as the former Yugoslavia and Bulgaria have recorded abortion rates of over 50 per cent.Vague legislationInternational research shows that women will still seek abortion, even if the procedure is illegal. Numerous studies have shown that the majority of Australians support the idea of safe and legal abortions. However, Australian abortion laws are typically vague and open to interpretation. Laws differ between States and Territories. Generally, all legislations aim to restrict access to the procedure, and give the decision on whether or not a pregnancy can be terminated to the doctor, instead of the woman. Ambiguous laws mean that public sector services are limited, particularly in rural areas, and doctors are less inclined to train in abortion techniques for fear of legal action.Typical profileAround one in three Australian women will undergo an abortion. Unwanted pregnancy can affect any woman of childbearing age, but studies show that some women are at greater risk than others. The typical profile of a woman seeking abortion includes: * Aged in her 20s * Single * Childless * Well educated * Employed.

[BooZker 0]

I don't believe that most mothers and fathers who have decided to keep the child ever regret that decision when they see this beautiful gift that God has given them.

That's very untrue. I love kids. And cant wait to have them when i am ready, but i know MANY people who can not wait till they get out if the house, or or say quote,"I wish i never had any kids" Also the God has given them dosnt make much sence. Not because i'm not religious, but if it was Gods descions to get raped lets say, is not very "godly"

Remember i'm pretty damn liberal lol. And i am pro-choice. I do not understand it though. To some point, such as like 9 months yah its just killing a baby, cause you can actual have the baby. It could live. Like 1 month though its not a baby at all. I mean its not much more then sperm. Yes yes people can go on and on about what is a baby and not, but no matter how you put it you do NEED sperm to make a baby. Therefore, sperm is the early steps of a baby. Sperm is alive if you did't know.

Oh and i want to comment on Thorned Rose's video. It was very old and i couldnt see anything since it was so small and blurry. And the referance to a secret lanquage is used all the time in operating rooms. I mean how would you like if they said,"ok we are now taking your tendons and removing them from your arm." And to JasperIK people will try to do it themselves. TRUST me i know. I didnt because im a male, but i know 2 people who have because it was illegal and could not take care of it. One of them had the baby while the other almost died. And no one can say that putting them up for adoption is any better. Once you go to a orphanage then i will listen to your opinion. I have been in one and they are not pretty. Or what about foster parents. You know how many foster parents do it for the money from the state.

In many religions this is against the rules or a sin to waist seaman. I can respect that CHOICE they made. I can not respect people who had the CHOICE to have this religion and make others follow their rules. They might not say this is untrue, but more then 90% of the reason they dont support this and things such as gay marriage is because of religion. If they have have a true moral reason such as its murder at the stage of 9 months yes i can understand, but,"It was God's descsion for her to have a baby" is non of your business.


THIS IS A FACT, although many people disagree that this it's true. You should remember that the crime rate DID go down though.

Presented at seminars at the University, Stanford and Harvard but not yet published, Legalized Abortion and Crime, Chicago economist Steven Levitts recent study that links the legalization of abortion to the countrys falling crime rate in the 1990s, already is receiving national attention.
The study, co-authored by Levitt, Professor in Economics at Chicago, and Stanford Universitys John Donohue III, suggests legalized abortion may be responsible for approximately half of the crime rates recent fall.

According to the researchers, the decline of the U.S. crime rate may be the result of two mechanisms related to legalized abortion. First, following the Roe vs. Wade decision in 1973, more women at risk of having children who could later engage in criminal activityteen-agers, those living in poverty or those with unwanted pregnancies, for exampleopted for abortion. And second, improved maternal, familial or fetal circumstances may have led to better environments for raising children.

Levitt and Donohue stress that their findings do not carry an endorsement of abortion. We do not take a position on abortion, and the study was not undertaken as a study of abortion, but crime, said Levitt. Neither is the study about race or class. Many studies have shown that children who are born unwanted have unsatisfactory outcomes, including involvement in crime.

As evidence for their findings, the researchers point to data regarding the timing of the crime drop: the first generation of pregnancies terminated under legalized abortion would have otherwise resulted in children who reached the peak ages for criminal activity, 18 to 24, in the early 1990s. Increases in 1970s abortions by high-risk mothers may have lowered the number of potential criminals coming of age in the 1990s.

The study also reports that states such as California and New York, which legalized abortion before 1973, experienced a drop in their crime rates before the rest of the nation. Furthermore, empirical evidence suggests states with higher abortion rates have seen more dramatic decreases in crime since 1985, and those drops in crime have been concentrated among individuals under age 25 in 1997precisely the group possibly affected by abortion legalization in 1973.

While many explanations have been given for the dramatic decline of crime during this past decade, the authors maintain in a study abstract that each of them has difficulty explaining the timing, large magnitude, persistence and widespread nature of the drop. The researchers also predict crime rates will continue to fall slowly for 15 to 20 more years as the full effects of legalized abortion continue.

A better understanding of the reasons for declines in crime helps policymakers as they formulate programs to reduce crime. For instance, with lower future crime rates, there may be less need to build prisons, Levitt said.

The link http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/990812/abortion.shtml is and i'm sure you can find something like this on wikipedia too.

These are scientists that do not support it or do not support it. They are merely showing the effects. As you can see unwanted children DO turn out bad. What kid wouldnt. I mean if you grew up in a family that there is no mom or dad and dont even know who the dad is it has to be hard? What if your mom is just a "B" word and she told you that she dosnt love you? What if the parents are on drugs? These people are out there and they ruin the lives of children and by making it ilegal they have the kids and make the kids a living hell.
Edited May 15, 2006 by BooZker (see edit history)