anwiii

buffalohelp made it clear that there will be no user groups to seperate people here. although, unofficially, opaque supports the idea with evil group and the coder or programmer group, etc... so i personally think what wd did is an EXCELLENT idea. the board shows the active members and will be adjusted accordingly. to get on the board, one will have to be an active member. it's the first good and original idea that has been implimented in a long time. it's exactly what the board needs. especially when buffalohelp is never online here to do anything in regards to his admin duties, and while opaque has been pronounced missing....and the mods struggle just to do their jobs effectively. good job web designer!

i know you think posting one liners all over the place, complaining about this forum, and bringing up old topics that should have been closed a long time ago is fun to you, but it really IS considered spam. my suggestion to you is that you give some thought to what you are posting about, make it at LEAST 3-5 lines long for each post, and have fun with THAT.

hahaha yea, this was funny......and true.... buffalohelp goes on to say that there is NO FREE SPEECH on this forum. he's right. ESPECIALLY if you call him self rightious. you will be BANNED

inea- you better smarten up. you are a new user here and don't know anything about this forum. to creat a poll and go around talking crap about how this forum is always offline shows your own ignorance. smarten up, newbie. i don't like your attitude i have been seeing for the last 2 days. in fact it's pissing me off because obviously you know nothing about this forum yet to make any rational judgements.

ok. first of all, you aren't understanding my reasoning why we cannot compare other animals to humans. you gave the example of comparing. all i did was try to reason that we cannot do that in this discussion since it would be irrelevant. yes, they are inferior in some ways, but so are WE inferior in other ways. i hope you understand that concept so i don't have to go and list examples. i am just assuming you understand this point. in no way, however, did i ever state that a baby chick can tell the presense of addition and subtraction. i don't even know how you came to understand that that is what i said.i agree with you that math wouldn't be math if nobody was ever able to understand it from ground zero. but it can be LEARNED from ground zero. although it can be learned from ground zero, it doesn't mean math is built in to us. all it means is that math surrounds us and people are always trying to figure out and define what surrounds us. math is no different.you are still using examples of what could have been taught for decades and centuries over time. you give absolutely NO observation to how that relates to math being built in to all humans from birth. you get so off topic with your examples. just becuase we know things, DOESN'T mean why are born with that knowledge. you use a building that requires bricks. you even used the indians again as an example and buffalo where hunting is a LEARNED experience for humans. yes, hunting sometimes involves numbers, but that doesn't mean we were born with that knowledge. forgive me if i don't quote all your examples.....but they don't even show any evidence that math is built in to humans from birth. i used the example of stones as an exagerated example so let's make it less exagerated. since what you are saying is that math is mostly VISUALLY built in to humans. take one pile of stones that has 500 equal pieces and another pile which has 450 equal pieces. i can pretty much assume that most humans would be able to tell which pile is bigger, but some WONT. would that prove or disprove your theory?Being unable to tell the difference between 100 stones and 101 stones proves as much about human mathematics as telling the difference between 1000 drops of water, and 1001. Negligibility and human error are aspects of the physical world, and they don't undermine the mathematics behind it. 101 stones > 100 stones. 1001 drops > 1000 drops. Saying that a human can't tell the difference means the human wasn't given enough preparatory conditions to develop a more accurate answer, and doesn't mean the human himself makes all logical decisions based on deduction rather than awareness of inequality. 1+1=2! not 1+1=2 SOMETIMES depending on how you look at it. but that is what you are concluding since some people will see things different than other people.ok. i like how you broke in to the definition of math, but you really failed to prove a point that EVERY HUMAN that is not "disabled" in any way is able to calculate fundamental math if there are absolutely NO outside influences.now, let's break this down in to simple terms because i am still failing to see what you yourself consider fundamental math. be carefull because i just might show proof that students that have even studied fundamental math in the second grade have failed their tests. so i am sure your definition has NOTHING to do with addition, subtraction, division, or multiplication...but some other form of fundamental math. i would just like to know what this fundemental math is we are now talking about. also, it can't even be visual math since i gave an example to discredit the visual part. but you are saying that math can have logic to it? i say math does not have any logic to it. math has proofs...even elementary math. the visual part or the logic part is what surounds the actual math. the design we can actually see. i think you are getting confused between the two and combining them both thinking both have to do with math.bikerman- being able to touch something means humans have mathmatical abilites from birth? get real.....

the reason why i stated that the topic infers that math would be a necessity for survival is that most everything we are born with is necessary for our survival. you did mention why we are born with an appendix. that is a good question and will remain a mystery for a long time. the reason it IS a mysetery is because what i said previously is TRUE. 99.99% of what we are born with is necessary for our survival. i know what the original topic starter stated. next time, you need to use the quote tags per the rules of the forum. and as you can plainly see, i disagree with most of what the topic starter had to say. there is a fine line in what can be considered "math" and what is common sense or logical. sorry. noticing one pile bigger than another pile is not math in my opinion. neither is the scenario of why a child gets more scared around a larger group of people than a smaller group. that is not math.you try to give an example of how math surounds us. i agree. it's all around. but that doesn't mean that math is a built in language in human beings.yes, the real question at hand is "do we know math before we are taught it". that question also means "do we know math before we are able to teach our own selves math". and this is where it gets tricky. you can't compare an ancient civilization that had the ability to teach itself basic math concepts. you have to imagine a scenerio where a baby was born and abandoned on a deserted island where there is no outside influence to learn math. there are many outside influences that could affect that child growing up. the original topic starter used stones as an example. take away the stones as an influence to the case study and what do you have? no more math regarding stones. take away all objects that could be related in doing any sort of basic math so we can get straight to point in answering this questions of whether or not we have the ability to understand even the basics of math without being taught it or influenced by it in any way, shape or form.nice try with the eyes, ears, legs, hands, tongues, etc to try and prove a point. you are forgetting one thing though. the less we are born with in the examples you gave, the less likely we WILL survive. plus, we are also getting to the age where people are aborting their fetus if they know the baby will be born handicapped. so you aren't really making a good point here in your examples. in fact, everything you mentioned IS necessary for our survival. sure, technology has helped people more and more with their disabilities as technology grows. even parents and other human being will be a crutch for someone who wont be able to survive on their own with a disability. take away the crutches, and you have a person who wont be able to survive at ALL on their own.you talk like other species of the animal kingdom is inferior and therefore used those species as an example. you can't do that because other species are born with natural insticts and even extra senses which is needed for their own survival. we cannot possibly do what some of them do when they are born with things that we aren't born with. but you insist in stating that this is part of your "proof". when i can give you examples where YOU would be inferior to THEM in some areas.i baby liking fudge has nothing to do with math. a little kid lost in a crowd and is afraid because he is unaware of where his mom or dad is, is NOT math.i don't have any proof on my side. but i do know that we are born with things necessary for our survival. we are born with things we need. so that is why i asked the question of why we need math for survival. that would be a natural ability we are born with and i CAN show proof of many experts that will disagree with your reasoning that humans are born with any natural instincts whether related to "survival" or not. i put it in quotes because i can now see by what you call your "proof" that we disagree on even THAT definition.now i will give my own example using the topic starter example that you agree with. suppose there are two piles of stones. one pile had 101 pieces. the other had 100. the person who is concluding which pile is bigger is going to say that they are equal. now this is MY proof that the original example is not math but deductive reasoning. they are doing absolutely NO MATH to determine which pile is bigger or smaller. just because the stones are in what WE call #'s, doesn't mean there is math involved to determine which pile is bigger. sorry. and yea, i don't think the indians were too picky about buffalo whether there were a lot of them in a heard, or 2-3. they would kill them none the less. but indians do know math. they were taught about #'s and how to use them to their advantage. this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the original question though. the question wasn't, "are humans able to understand math concepts over time and generations and able to pass that knowledge on to the younger generations"

that was an interesting post, but unfortunately it is off topic. we aren't talking about baby chicks or people who have evovled to understand math where it was handed down to future generations. we are talking about if human beings have math built in to them at birth. we weren't even talking about primates.what the original topic starter was hinting at was that math is needed for human survival and we are born with a natural instict to understand math...even the most basic math. the only person who has come close to even showing a shred of evidence is biker man. he only knows what he reads though and he went so far as to say that what he read is evidence. for me, i have to question what i read about when he posted the link. although somewhat convincing, i am not convinced at all. i think more research should be done on it. if people want to spend more money on things that don't matter.i would like to know how math is needed for human survival. but i think we need to discuss what human survival is and what the purpose of a human race is to begin with without really diving too deep in to science or religion because then i could see this thread becoming more off topic.so my whole arguement will stand where i believe math is NOT needed for human survival. so if that is true, then why would math be built in to us? other species have things built in that aren't learned or taught, and the natural insticts that are built in from birth are needed for their survival. but we aren't talking about other species. we are talking about human beings.

cool idea, wd! i hope it catches on! i see opaque is wanted again and nowhere to be found :)so i wonder who is gonna be next on the board! also, what if we want a different picture

if it's in the wall street journal, it is probably true haha. don't tell me you never heard of the wall street journal? VERY reputable.okara- ummmm buddy, the wsj is not a tabloid. or even close to being one.

wow. really? at what age? and what would be the importance or significance that math be built in for this forest born human being? also, what else would this forest born human know because he was born knowing something as you are trying to imply?

no. it wouldn't just happen to her at the time. it would happen to EVERYONE trying to access the site at the time.adell- this has been an ongoing problem in the past and a known issue for a very long time. all you can do is wait an hour or two and try back. evidently nobody is trying to do anything about this error so people can stop experiencing it and actually able to log in to their account when they need to. i gaurantee you that this will not be the first time you come across this error. just don't freak out because we are all able to log back in eventually.

i am a troll? where is that coming from? you call other people in this forum the same name. what exactly does that mean? should i look up the definition and dispute that just like all your other b.s. you spew here? like i said. get your facts straight....THEN come talk to me. talk about what you KNOW. not what you don't know. this troll signing off. i did my job once again and once again, you are a robot who can never think for himself freely. enjoy your books i will be enjoying my life experiences....and the deeper meanings of life that your science will never be able to comprehend haha. ta ta i will await our next meeting....

ok, already i am not impressed with your so-called evidence. i will go through the links one by one and give an opinion. link 1: i stopped reading after "If I doubt astrology to a believer, I am looked at with a shocked and bewildered stare, as if I were attacking apple pie and motherhood". it was the first line for gosh sakes. we aren't argueing in the sense that you are doubting anything. you are saying there is no truth to astrology PERIOD....without any possibility. there is a HUGE difference. strike 1! ok i lied. i had to scroll down to see how he is mocking people who say astrology is inarguably true when all *I* am saying is that there is a strong possibility that there is some truth to astrology. although we didn't get in to what kind of astrology and from who the reports would be trusted more than others. it tried to compare gessing a persons birth chart to the person with flipping a coin? Hahahaha! that is your evidense? they pick out...what 700 astrologers and consider them the worlds best? what kind of evidence is this? in fact, 50% is pretty good considering there are 12 signs and all *I* am arguing is that there is some truth to astrology. ok....again...strike one. no evidence to support that there is no truth to astrology. good try though. did you even read it? case studies? how were the case studies prepares? give me some relevant information here. give me the information you would DEMAND from others. link 2: hahaha! are you kidding me? you are giving me a wiki as your second to top link? i am afraid to even go further. yea, it does suggest there have been studies that even criss angel did in one of his magic shows. guess how much i believe in what he does is true? very little since he's a magician and in the area of astrology, knows the psychology behind it and able to control it for his benefit to prove a point. again. no evidence in the wiki and a wiki is not what i would call a reliable source anyway. sorry. link 3: i am not familiar with the mmpi or the leary checklist. i am assuming it's a standardized test to come up with a personality profile. how can you compare standardized tests to astrology reports which is specific to the individual? also, since i am not familiar with those tests, i don't know they are coming up with a personality profile. seems like we are getting more in to psychology now and you are trying to state the differences between psychology and astrology like there shouldn't be any differences. hmmmmm why would you assume i would think this link is valid to say that there is absolutely no truth to astrology? also, when taking a personality profile test, you have to take in to consideration of how many people view themselves as they really are. it's true that a lot of times how we view ourselves, others view us different. link 4: no, i am not a member so i read the summary. basically more personality tests which i have already discredited from link three. you cannot compare psychology with astrology. they are two VERY different things. also, true and false questions don't describe anyone. there are usually always exceptions and shades of grey due to human nature. show me how a true and false test can describe me completely and i will show you some swamp land i need to dump off on someone so gullible. link 5: i was warned by a program i have installed not to enter that website. what kind of shady websites are you trying to get me to follow? that doesn't hold up to well for your credibility and the sites you are taking information from. link 6: again. more personality profiles based on psychology to compare with astrology when i have stated repeatedly said that most people wont be able to define their own personality correctly and that a standardized test can't be compared to a specific chart for a specific person. even in psychology and psychiatry, it's still a science that is ongoing. there are many flaws to them too! it's not perfected in the LEAST so why do you insist on giving me examples of a science or study that hasn't been perfected to try and discredit something else? that is really naive thinking on your part if this is how you really think in showing evidence. sure, there are facts to the studies, but i see VERY little evidence to discredit astrology in the sense that there is absolutely no truth to it. link 7: i haven't read the pdf yet. i think i might want to read it though since a quickly just browsed through it. i don't have a comment as of yet on it. anyway, thanks for wasting a good part of my day trying to show evidence where there actually was no evidence at all to discredit the validity of astrology. i spent about an hour now out of my life to read things i already knew JUST to give you the benefit of the doubt. guess what? if that is all you have that tells you that astrology is like the tooth fairy and some fairy tale that has absolutely no truth to it or meaning behind it, then i have proven my point in how closed minded you are. you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but let me give you a bit of advice. teach what you KNOW. NOT what you don't know. you don't know astrology so don't try to teach me about it. you don't know god, so don't go discrediting him. teach what you KNOW or you are just going to look like a fool. you know math and computers. stick to those things.......not black holes. so to quote you in what you said in another thread when someone was trying to be cute in his mathmatics, "i am not impressed".

you sure talk alot to try and discredit things when i made it plainly clear i have no solid evidence. so yes, my opinion is based on what i know through my own personal experiences. see, unlike you, my knowledge doesn't just come from books and other peoples works.no. just because pluto isn't a planet doesn't discredit astrology. sorry.you lightly touched on how the sun and moon affect certain aspects of nature, but not HUMAN nature. why did you leave that part out? are you trying to illiminate obvious facts that wont help your case to discredit astrology? that goes along with my theory that people like you just don't have an open mind.i don't have to show you evidence that over 25% of everyone i talked to about astrology has guessed my sign. if you don't believe it, that is your own problem. i also said 25% is a low #. it's more like OVER 50%! and let's round the # of people off to about 30 in my lifetime so far which means at least 15 have guessed correctly on the first guess. i have also been known to be a VERY good guesser myself and that doesn't come from pure luck or coincidence as i know the difference. yes, i may be one of the odd few that has the traits of my sign in an uncanny sense. the traits and characteristics had to come from somewhere though and specifically designated to a specific sign. the probability that it is a coincidence is less than the possibility that there is some truth to astrology given all factors of my experiences.i know comparing my own experiences with yours is like comparing apples and oranges. you have experienced very little to know much of anything aside from the information you read in books and the so-called evidence you have gathered in your lifetime that has NOT been based on your own personal experiences. it's pretty sad in fact when you consider the fact that there is more out there than we know right now. i mean, if someone were to ask you if a tree falls down and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound.....you would obviously say no because you would be too busy arguing with people about how there was no proof that a tree fell down in the first place. so it's funny to me how you think. you try to use logic in things you say while your logic is so warped, i don't think even YOU know what you are talking about sometimeslook at your response when i said it was ridiculous to compare the tooth fairy and santa clause to astrology. your response was "it is quite factual". your response made absolutely no sense. astrology has to do with nature. how does the tooth fairy and santa clause compare to nature? but when you consider the magical affect the tooth fairy and santa clause has on kids, you will know that they ARE real in some senses. but i am sure i wont hear you singing "santa clause is coming to town".....since that song shouldn't exist in the first place since nothing about santa clause is real in your eyes. but i still don't see where you are getting your so-called factual information to compare astrology to the tooth fairy. please do me a favor and supply your facts. just don't state what you say are facts and expect me to believe it.as far as the numurous studies about astrology that you failed to give examples to discredit any idea that there is a shed of possibility to the fact that there is some truth to astrology, i don't base my beliefs on studies alone. i base my beliefs on the experiences i have had in life. sure, my experiences can be discredited or even just what i feel the meanings behind my experiences are. doesn't matter to me that i meet up with people like you who likes to discredit anything where there is no evidence. you aren't a free thinker and that's your own weakness in life. how are you going to find love if you meet someone and ask them to prove they love you? prove to me your wife loves you, then tell me there is no possibility that there is a shed of truth to astrology. because until you can prove to me your wife loves you, you will be a hypocrite in always asking people to show evidence in your arguements. have you even told her you can never respect her beliefs? i am still waiting for you to tell her that and come back and tell me what she says. i know. this was from another thread but is relevant here.now since you have been here, you have tried to discredit everyone in the forum. this tells me one thing. you think you know it all and have absolutely nothing to learn from anyone here unless they provide you evidence on something you haven't seen or heard of yet. so let me ask you something? your a teacher. you probably taught your wife a lot too. has she ever taught you anything...especially when it comes to possibilities? i only bring her up because you did in another thread and used her as an example of something. let's get personal. let's talk about the things you HAVEN'T read in any book.fact is, i can discredit anything you have to say against there not being a possibility that there is truth to astrology no matter how many studies you hit me with. just because you think it's easy to discredit people DOES NOT MEAN you are the LEAST bit credible your own self. you wanted a fact? THAT is a fact. now if you can show me any credibility here, then show it to me. i will even accept any beliefs you have that are NOT based on any evidence. at least then i would know you were at least open to being a little bit honest without all this needing evidence b.s.

well give them hell for that, will ya? because god forbid if someone buys another computer with a different ip and their transactions get labeled as fraud. that is just plain ridiculous in my book. i never heard of this happening before from xisto. i am sure you will have no problem getting your refund to start over with your hosting!

hey adell. glad you made it to Xisto. seems like you have a lot to offer the forum in the short time you've been here. i think you make a great addition so i hope ya stay a while. loved your intro. there should be a standard form :)i used to be active. now not so much but you'll see me around once in a while. usually in the chat room when i have the time. take care!

i would suggest you write a support ticket on this issue right away from the Xisto - Support website.i am still unclear exactly what the problem is. from what i am reading, all you signed up for was a hosting account without a domain name so did you sign up for a hosting account with a sub domain? or did you have a domain name that expired or cancelled? i am a bit unlcear on this issue.from what i understand though is that you paid for hosting, but you want a refund due to a domain issue(whatever that means). if you didn't sign up with a domain or subdomain, then i don't see why they wouldn't refund your money since your hosting account would have to have a domain or subdomain attatched to it.i don't know why your friend couldn't create the account even if it was under a different ip. that seems a bit strange to me as long as the user name and password were correct. that doesn't make sense at all to me. there may be a misunderstanding there.in any case, i would highly suggest you write a support ticket and explain in DETAIL what the problem is so you can resolve this issue with Xisto - Web Hosting staff.

sorry, but comparing astrology to the tooth fairy or santa clause is just plain ridiculous.sure, i can probably come up with an astrology report on someone that could have everyone relating to it. in fact, those studies have already been made to try to disprove astrology. but in fact, those studies do not disprove astrology. it only proves that someone can make a report that can relate to the majority.to me, people who aren't open to the possibilities of the universe whether "proven" or "disproven" lead very shallow lives. is there some truth to astrology? i think so. i've read the general reports of the different signs and i can honesty say i don't fall under any of them except my own which has the most truth to it. does that prove there is truth to it? no. if i were to ask 100 people what my sign is, at least 25% would guess it correctly without thinking too hard on it. that figure is low considering more than half the people i ever met have guessed my sign who believe in astrology somewhat and know the general and specific characteristics of each sign. does this prove there is truth to astrology? NOPE! all in all though, from my personal experience and the experiences i've had with others, and the limited study i have personally done, i have to say without a shadow of a doubt that there IS truth to astrology even if it can't be proven.also, if the sun and moon can affect nature, which includes human nature, why not the planets and how they are aligned? to say there isn't a possibility to it is being very closed minded and with that limited mindset, it would be hard to actually believe in ANYTHING.now at the very LEAST, astrology gives the power of suggestion so it is more real to those who believe in it than not. i do highly believe in power of suggestion. if you wake up in a good mood, chances are, better things will happen to you that day. if you wake up in a bad mood, worse things will happen. so if someone is reading their daily horoscope(which i find more phony than anything else), they are embedding something in their head that they need to accomplish and chances are they WILL more likely accomplish it compared to if they didn't read their daily horoscope. but this is the VERY LEAST in what i believe. i believe STRONGLY that there is more to it.now even though i feel strongly that there is truth in astrology, i don't think we know enough about it to base it specifically in our every day lives. i think it should be used as a guide. take the good that relates to us individually, and throw out the bad that doesn't relate to us. astrology can actually be a good guide to most people to get to know what their strengths and weaknesses are and find a purpose in what one was born to do and incorporate what makes sense in your every day life. anyway, i can only talk from my personal experiences. everyone has their own. even the ones who don't give it much deep thought....just like anything else in their lives. they would rather believe it when they see it or not believe in it at all without the slightest possibility of knowing what is actually possible.

well it's more than just not liking obama...you are now using things against him because he is black.BUT! yea, i would never consider voting yes on prop b. i am all for animal rights, but this gives too much power in the wrong places. i haven't even read the whole thing nor do i care too. we already have laws to protect animals.