Obama And The Downfall Of The Usa

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

Here's my position on Obama-I dislike him and almost everything about him.

 

(A small note, I am not a racist, a supremicist, nor a hater. I have friends of all races, sexual orintations, and the such)

 

Now to the why part.

 

Obama doesn't keep his promises. Anybody remember when Obama said that if his recovery act were to be passed, unemployment wouldn't hit 8%? Well the bill passed, and unemployment is around 9.5%! Also nobody seems to bring up all the promises that were made during the campaign. I'm not seeing tax cuts like he promised during the campaign either.

 

Obama's view on abortion. Ok this is my personal opinion, and can differ from others, but I find that Obama's view on abortion one of the worst, even when it comes to liberals. He has opposed bills that would ban late term abortions (and as far as I remember he was the only person who voted on that bill to oppose it (it was an Illinois bill or something similar). And yet he has said in an interview that fatherhood believes at conception. Logically this means that Obama doesn't mind that babies are being killed. After all in these late term abortions some people think that a baby being murdered while it is still in the birth canal is perfectly fine, but if the baby were to be born and soon after killed, the murderer would be arrested and be considered a dispicable human being.

 

Obama's past with Rev Wright. Do I even need to explain this? Obama has spent enough time listening to this radical to believe everything he says.

 

Obama's response to the Cambridge arrest. Now forgive me because I forgot their exact names, but this is what happened. A woman called the police reporting a break in, at her neighbor's house. The police arrived and found a man inside who "appeared to reside there". The police asked the man to identify himself to prove he was the owner. The man responded saying "Why? Because I'm a black man in America?". Turns out the guy did live there, but the resident was arrested because of disorderly conduct.

 

So as the story goes, during Barack Obama's speech for healthcare, a reporter asked him about what he thought about the situation. His first comment was that he knew almost nothing about the situation. The next thing that he said was that it was "safe to say that the Cambridge police acted.....stupidy".

 

A few problems with this statement. If you are the President of one of the most powerful nations in the world and you don't know much about a particular situation, you don't judge it on the spot. You look at the facts and judge it after, not during a press conference. Another problem with his statement is that he called the police stupid. I don't care what the police do, but they NEVER act stupidly. They may make poor decisions, but they never act stupidly. Every day police officers go to work not knowing if they will come home. They stop cars that might have a murderer in it. They never know what will happen and have to make split second decisions. Not to mention that Obama's statement probably will make police officers nationwide think twice before voting for Obama in 2012.

 

One last comment on this, as of right now, Obama hasn't apologised. Instead he invited the police officer to the White House for beer.

 

His socialization of medicine. The fact is that the United States has one of the best healthcare systems in the world. Making the healthcare system government run will just mess up things even more. I have heard of people who can't get care in Canada, but flock to the United States to get life saving treatments. In nations like the UK and Canada there are waiting lists for family doctors. As far as I know with privately run healthcare, there aren't waiting lists years long for family doctors. I'm not against everybody being insured, infact I think it isn't a bad idea, but socialized medicine is not the way to go.

 

I'll post more later. Feel free to respond to any and all of these statements.

[inverse_bloom 0]

Im not american, so obviously i dont know much about the subject. But i think after having bush in, any modern elected president would do much better. I figure bush left the U.S economy in a weakened state from what it could have been? (his war on terror for so many years for instance). I don't know if this is something people would rather forget so i won't say anything more.

Edited August 13, 2009 by inverse_bloom (see edit history)

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

People say that here as well. A recession started in March of 2000, which was left over from what happened with Clinton/Gore. So already the economy wasn't doing that well when Bush came into office. Sure, Bush could have done better though.

 

But currently, Barack Obama has spent more in his 7 month presidency than all other presidents combined in 230+ years. Our biggest export is our debt, and money is being spent at the rate of about $50,000 USD per second to amount to over $7.5 trillion. This is about $37,700 per citizen.

[Nameless_ 1]

I don't know anything about Obama Barrack either, but you put forward your arguments well, with strong evidence (I trust you) and everything...It's just that I never really thought that Obama was someone like that though, for some reason I had thought that he was doing a great job as a president (not that I know a lot about him), and that everyone liked him and the such.I must be wrong then... Obama isn't as good as I thought he was. I didn't really get the 'Stupid' part though. I mean, yeah, maybe the term 'stupid' was a bit harsh. Actually, very harsh, and calling the police stupid is rather 'stupid' himself, what what is with the police going to work and stopping murderers in cars? That's one argument that I don't understand about...Also, the beer instead of apology was a but weird, but isn't a beer better than an apology in American culture? Material goods, not apologies from the heart.(No offense to any Americans, I know that there are a lot. I am merely stating that beer drinking is a huge part of American culture, and making something someone did wrong for a cup of beer sounds normal to me)The rest just proves that Obama is hate-able.

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

There are some likeable things, but the way that I see it, there aren't many. Also, this is my point of view, others may see this differently. I get a lot of my ideas behind the way that Sean Hannity talks about these issues.

[inverse_bloom 0]

Its unfortunate a stimulus plan in some form didnt come in quicker for the U.S. Apparently before the recession hit many economists had a strong inclination things werent going to be good news later, about a whole year (probably longer) before the recession took hold. Warning signs were very apparent in late 2007 and it makes me wonder what effective plans were put in place by the bush administration to conteract the issue (if much at all). Unfortunately Barack Obama put the stimulus plan in too late. If it was a few months earlier, the situation in the U.S (and the world) would have been better. How much better, who really knows. For instance in Australia when the recession hit we got our stimulus in quick (it was a big sum of money by our standards) and as such our economy is currently doing well considering the global economic situation.

[rayzoredge 2]

We were just talking about this guy last night.

 

Be mindful that I hate politics and that I don't watch the news or pay attention, so maybe I have no say here, but maybe I have more of a say here because I don't watch the news...

 

1. It's bad juju to make a promise that you can't keep. Obama can say all he wants about the economy, but the economy's state does not fall on his shoulders... it falls on the shoulders of the American people. Sure, you can promise a percentage rate of unemployment, but how do you do that when you know how human nature is? Stock market declines, people spend less money to save money, companies cut costs and lay people off, and businesses don't rake in as much capital because consumers are cutting back on spending to save money. It's a vicious cycle that has an eventual end, but no one will ever know what the consequences will be during that time. Apparently Obama had a strong confidence in that the stimulus packages would keep banks running and make them less hesitant to loan out monies, but it didn't. The company bailouts were supposed to keep them afloat so that they could keep operations at a normal level, but companies still reevaluated their operations and slashed jobs and cut funding to ride the recession. Small businesses had no stimulus money, so they did the same and froze wages, cut costs, limited hours, and laid off workers. No one can find work because no one is hiring BECAUSE they're trying to save money. (That's just a figurative statement... anyone can find work, really, with persistence and tolerance.) The stimulus plan had a purpose, but it failed, and now the president is being blamed for it. Guess he can't depend on the nation to do what he planned for, right? Don't forget that the previous administration handed him a bad card to start with... I imagined that one of Bush's last words to Obama before he stepped down was "good luck."

 

You can't depend on tax cuts happening either, considering the fact that billions of dollars actually were spent to support those stimulus packages ON TOP OF the usual government spending on military advents, education, health care, government programs, etc. How do we get these millions and billions of dollars to give out to people? Taxes and bonds and borrowing from other countries. That's something that people don't even think about, always wondering when they'll be paying less to the government. And that's the problem when people do get tax cuts and then wonder why they don't get as much Medicare benefits, or social security, or education and extracurricular programs, or other government-funded programs hosted by federal agencies and whatnot. We don't make money out of thin air. But a lot of us think so. (This isn't an attack on OP... just a true statement.)

 

2. Abortion is not a valid political issue. It may, however, define character, as well as that person's stance on stem cell research, going green, global warming, and whatever crap people hock out and use as a single-issue vote to put the wrong people in office. I'm not saying that we have the wrong president, but I'm definitely saying that there were a lot of idiots that didn't vote for McCain because "he was too old." True quote.

 

3. I can't comment on this, since I don't even know much about Reverend Wright.

 

4. Stupid. This isn't even an issue either unless you want to determine character. In my opinion, it's kind of dumb that this was even brought up as an issue. You are right in that he shouldn't have had any judgment with an issue that he was unfamiliar about. It was even more stupid, however, that anyone would have asked the president that question. (Out of everything that you could ask, someone came up with that?! Might as well have asked him about what he thought about Michael Jackson's death.) That should have been a "no comment" situation, but I guess that when you're facing a thousand people and you're on a podium, addressed with something that catches you off-guard, that you don't screw up and do what you would expect of a perfect spokesperson, right? He screwed up and he'll have to face that music if and when it comes.

 

I also think that there's more of an issue that the president had a light beer.

 

5. The biggie. The bulls-eye topic of the day.

 

You're going to have to understand both sides of the argument before you join a side. The funny thing is that stereotypically, most of the conservatives against this health care plan are old farts that actually understand some things, and most younger folks that don't understand how things work are for universal health care. Duh: everyone being provided health care would be awesome and would work in theory. No one would have to go without health care. Uncle Sam would take care of us. However, there are numerous arguments against this. Like, for one, OP's argument with having to WAIT for health care because 10,000 patients are coming into to see doctors for ouchie-boo-boo crap while a heart transplant patient dies because he or she couldn't make it through the lines quickly enough via triage. Also, there's the principal of socialization... being provided health care, regardless of whether you want it or not. Why would you refuse the concept? Because somebody has to pay for it. Who? YOU, the taxpayer. If universal health care passes, there goes our right to accept or deny something... and any dreams of tax cuts because we would have to foot the bill to take care of ourselves, our neighbors, our friends and families... and even Joe Schmoe that never worked a day in his life to contribute to society. How is that fair? You wonder why capitalism actually becomes more appealing over socialism when you have to take care of people who don't do a damn thing. You also wonder why we shouldn't help everyone else. And then you get this argument, and when YOU have to pay, you whine and squeal and wonder why you even considered helping others in the first place. It's not exactly the most moral thing, but when there are people who abuse the system, you have to consider these things before vouching to help EVERYONE without prejudice, no favorites, no selective sample.

 

-

 

I'm not saying that the president of the United States is doing a good job. I'm also not saying that he's doing a bad one either. But when you're in charge of an entire nation of Americans and millions of people's lives are affected by your decisions, it's hard to consider choices that would appeal to most people because things like the stimulus plan CAN backfire. That and the guy gets blamed for everything that happens on a nationwide level. Look at Bush. I'm sure a ton of people hate him because he "sent thousands of our men and women into harm's way" for a "war" on terrorism. An unjustified clause. Is it really, when we're making a difference in the countries that we assist? Should we really stop being the world police and let women, children, and men die needlessly because we stood by and watched the Taliban wreak their havoc in a physical, religious, and psychological way? Would you let a total stranger die because you were selfish enough to only worry about your family and your loved ones? Or should we try to take care of our nation first, ignoring everything and everyone that occurs on a world-wide basis?

[Misanthrope 0]

Being neither racist nor decidedly right/left ring, and in fact eschewing all such self-imposed categorizing, I find myself heartedly in agreement with the topic starter. But before addressing the topic superficially, I thought I?d briefly draw attention to how so many of us feel compelled to preface our thoughts on this criminal currently infesting the White House with, ?I?m not a racist, but?.? ? myself included. Think of the social engineering at work here that puts us in this fearful state of political correctness. I mean, I hated Clinton?s policies too, but I didn?t have to tiptoe around my disdain of the man with saccharin disclaimers. We can blame our Wall Street media whores for instilling this sort of programming. You can?t open a magazine or turn on the idiot tube without being deluged by their vile progoganda. And of course, the idiot public readily adopts the programming without thinking twice. But on the criminal in question, his first day in office was marked by him signing an order to seal off his personal documents from public scrutiny. By ?public? I refer to the people who elected him to defend their freedoms, represent their interests. He works for us, right? Not! He is a Wall Street puppet reciting his lines, perfectly groomed for his role to fleece the public. All records of the man, including his Harvard education, birth records/certificate, passports, are locked tight behind closed doors. Why? He has spent millions defending lawsuits that would open these records to public eyes. Talking out both sides of his mouth, sending our country into enormous debt, and escalating war in Afghanistan ? but who cares, he?s the messiah. He can get away with atrocities unimagined by previous administrations because anyone who questions him is immediately labeled a racist. Why can?t we see his TYPE WRITTEN birth certificate that alleges he was born in Hawaii? I imagine it has something to do with the fact he was actually born in Kenya, and is consequently not a natural born citizen. In other words, he was never eligible to run for president of these United States in the first place. His entire candidacy is criminal. And yes, he will bring this nation to it?s knees.

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

Rayzoredge, you make a ton of good points there. The reason why I brought up the 8% unemployment, is to show not only that Obama is promising things that he can't keep, but also promising things that he has no control over. It's like me becoming the CEO of Hersheys (the chocolate) and saying that the price of oil will not hit $100 a barell while I am CEO of the chocolate factory. The only thing Obama can really do is hope that enough jobs are being created and promote being employed. All this while running up our debt that you or your children (depending how old you are) have to pay off. I just can't wait to be an adult. With the topic of people not spendingas they used to, it is 99% psycological. If all that you hear in the news is recession, economy, and the evil "depression" word, how can you spend like normal. The media has to lay off this topic for a while, even if it attracts viewers. They are the ones that have one of thegreatest effects on people. I'll jump to healthcare now. You hit the nail on the head with all the young people supporting universal healthcare, since it's free, and free is great. I'm a young person (still in high school, but from my strong political opinions, and extensive vocabulary, you may think I was older), and throughout school I see Democrats and liberals all over because these younger people want to spread the wealth. (Keep in mind this is a "rich" school district, if I do say so myself). They get their ideas from the mass media, which is mostly left wing, besides Fox News, and go along with it. I get my ideaology from Hannity, Limbough, and other great conservative thinkers. Our current healthcare system is one of the best in the world, and changing it right now would be terrible. I read somewhere that the president estimates that 75 million people are lacking healthcare right now. Sounds like a big number, as there are 300 million or so people in America, but it is quite small. Take our the millions of illegal immigrants that are included in that number, take out the people that choose to not be insured*, and take out the number of people that are only out of health insurance for a few months, and you end up with a number close to 20 million or less. Should 93% of the population have to suffer high taxes and crappy health care just so that this 6% minority can be insured? It doesn't make sense.Canadians don't like the high taxes either, in fact the clothing stores and shops on the United States side of the border get a ton of buidness because the sales tax in Canada is outragous. If Obama gets his way, do you want to really be paying 15% sales tax?*I will probably be one of these people once I get out of college. Health care is expensive, but I'll go without it for a year or however long I need to so that I can save money. It's a choice I will make, bug I won't rely on the government to provide me with health care.

[rayzoredge 2]

Yes, the President often makes promises and statements that he has no control over or even is involved in. With the state of the economy, the President usually wrongfully credited with its ups and downs... but he does make some decisions that can affect the mindset of the people that ARE responsible for the economy: us. The problem is for the most part, exactly what you stated with the mass media feeding us the Kool-aid and making us think to save when we really should be spending. That's why Obama actually threw out the stimulus packages for the consumer: for us to do a jump-start on the economy. Instead, we as idiots (including me) saved that money... but in my defense, I saved it to pay off the credit card debt I accrued during the 2008 Christmas season, so I'm sure I did my part in spending. The media isn't totally at fault... the market and the knee-jerk reactions of investors and Wall Street are also at fault with the "recession." (And of course, the honey dripped in our ears by Alan Greenspan.) To me, I think it's been over. To me, it seems that companies are finally finished with cutting back on jobs, re-evaluating their programs and branches, and cutting back on unnecessary spending, possibly becoming more focused on their goals to provide QUALITY crap to the consumer instead of inundating the shelves with junk. The car companies are re-evaluating their focus not so much on the "green" issues, but on the fact that consumers need a good, reliable vehicle that doesn't cost a fortune to get good gas mileage. (Note hybrids and how many people actually foot the bill for one.) The market has been stabilized as it looks by the DJIA, but time will tell whether that squiggly line dips or rises in the short term... and how fast it will grow over the long term. We've already had the dot com bubble burst and now this... maybe we'll actually be careful this time or maybe history will repeat itself.Health care is a touchy subject, because it makes sense to be insured and have a plan, but at the same time, it is expensive. But think about how expensive things would be if you were to hurt yourself... or better yet, go to the emergency room for a random sever pain in your knee that no one can explain. I forked over $2000 for something that went away on its own... is that something you can afford to fork over right off the back? I don't think most people could. And that's why I'm all up for everyone having health insurance... but not in the way that universal health care will provide it. I don't usually pay attention to politics, so forgive me if I ask: what's wrong with Medicare and Medicaid? How did we go about actually thinking about universal health care if we already have options for those who can't afford health care? There are some of us who can't because we're actually trying to make it work with ourselves and might not be able to afford health insurance but yet not qualify for Medicare/Medicaid... but that's when you have to make do with what you have. Add yourself (or keep yourself) on your parent's plan, or go through your employer. Or work another job... or do nothing. It's our personal choice. If we want to save a few bucks by not getting insurance, then it's our loss when the bill comes in the mail (if we get hurt).I never heard of Obama proposing a universal sales tax, but then again, it wouldn't be that surprising considering that we do have to pay the deficit somehow.I think that Shawn Hannity is a smart dude, but I can't stand listening to talk radio. Plus, I think that if I started exposing myself to just one medium, I would lose out on being able to think of political issues on both sides of the fence... not to mention that I don't care that much. Politics can be interesting at times to discuss, but in the end, it's like trying to convince a rock that it's a hat: no one wins, and everyone kind of leaves either ticked off or unchanged, with nothing that works to show any productivity in the manner.

[livepcportal 0]

Though I am not an American but still I think Obama will prove himself as a great leader, at least much more better than Bush. He will take USA to a more higher level. So I don't think if there will be a downfall of USA under his leadership. Just give him more time to prove himself as a good leader and I am sure he will prove himself very early and become an idol for us.

Edited August 24, 2009 by livepcportal (see edit history)

[iGuest 3]

Obama And The Downfall Of The USAObama And The Downfall Of The Usa

I voted for the current President with the hope that America would be embraced by other countries.  Now, we are causing a world crisis and the President does not seem to care.  Our USA dollar is losing value.  My parents lost their job.  They are too proud to join the unemployment payroll.

I've seen more hate in the last 6 months because of fear and upcoming hunger.

I want my vote back... 

-reply by Oprah

[.:Piper_2051:. 0]

Ok ok ok... freedom of speech taken into account... relating Obama to the collapse of the economy is ludicrous.... absolutely and totally blasphemous!Obama + Recession= Aftermath of BUSH!Obama was elected to be the one to clean up after the biggest mistake in US history since GW's conception. although he doesnt deserve the Nobel Peace Prize, he is cleaning up the mess left by Hurricane Bush, that destroyed democracy and freedom. Ok, we havent seen the greatest proof that Obama is doing a great job, but it took bush 8 years to run the USA into the ground, and Obama has been in office for less than 1 so get over it. If you want to blame anyone for what is going on, Blame Bush, Blame yourselves as Americans because YOU elected the fool, not once, but twice! right after you impeached Clinton for for doing absolutely NOTHING wrong.... That aside, I see alot of criticism about Obama, when he hasn't done anything wrong, hes cut salaries for bailout company exec's, he's set forth ideas to pull out of war and he has unified alot of people in the US, giving them hope...As for fox news, 'nuff said... weasels, hacks, liars, biased puppets... etc etc etc...

[jlhaslip 4]

Note:President Clinton was not impeached. There is a two term limit on the US Presidency. He had been in office for two terms and could not be re-elected.

[.:Piper_2051:. 0]

Note:
President Clinton was not impeached. There is a two term limit on the US Presidency. He had been in office for two terms and could not be re-elected.

yes thats is true, but he was forced out of office early via impeachment over the "Lewinski Issue"...

refer to: http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

editted to add link of reference
Edited November 4, 2009 by .:Piper_2051:. (see edit history)