My Idea To Keep Antimatter In A Matter Container using fans in all directions to keep it in place.

[brainless 0]

ok, I am the bad guy who first referenced Star Trek this time. Yes, lots of Star Trek stuff is fiction, some of it is missing every grain of scientific base (take the gravity generation on every spaceship. Even if everything else has been blown apart and the team has to wear space suits, gravity still works; AFAIK every answer to how these generators work is the same as for the Heisenberg Compensator: "they work fine, thanks for asking").on the other hand, there are things which have been just as fictional when they were first used in Star Trek (take the communicators ... they're just about what we have in mobile phones now...) - and with this hint, I'll stop this (at least in this thread since it's leading way off topic......and I am aware of the fact that the warp drive is mostly made up (Dilithium is Lithium with an appended Di-) - the interesting thing, however, is the antimatter-transportation and getting energy out of it (lots of)...salamangkero: The force exerted by fans is not an illusion (but the idea that you usually feel the force exerted by a fan is wrong unless you stick a finger into it ); the force exerted by the fan makes the air move and if it hits something (e.g. your face), you feel the force exerted by the air on your face (if you move against the wind, the air might also feel the force exerted by your body )

[matak 2]

well i made that drawing more for fun then from real. i just wanted to draw a basic of engine sistem. and that is one container of matter in which is dropped antimatter or vice-vresa...idea with fans is just idea.. of course i guess it can't work at this time beacouse if it could i guess we would have matter-antimatter combustion engines allready and all of that Irak and oil situation in world would become meaningless...well the reason that i mention that is beacouse i think that it is the worst problem in our technology upgrades.Let's say that last 15 years US goverment instead of investing in Army and Defense sistem they invested in science and technology that computers that we know for now would be 10 times better. (Faster more secure and user friendly)Imagine that 100 mlrd US dollars spended on year for weapons development would be spended on matter antimatter research? I think that we would have spaceships now that would be on Beta level of light-speed colonial ships that could travel to other galaxies in search for other "human friendly planets".I bet it would be better instead that dollar spent on 1 bullet was spent on 1 post in research forums, which would be great source of information.But that is dreamworld for now.I belive that when time comes some genius guy like Nikola Tesla, A. Einstein, Nobel or somebody like them would come up and say a formula or a combination of known human reactions which could provide us with infinate energy necessary for our survival.Until then we will just have topics like this and drawings like mine that prove our inferiorship to genius ideas and "perpetum mobile" solutions...I'm sorry that this post is a bit depressive but i'm thinking about the solution for quite a while and the more i think, the more i learn i realize how much that is waste of time. Beacouse for each question that i got answer to i get 10 more questions with that answer. How much can one take?Well i'll learn when i can and i'll draw images like that while i can, and if that by all means even gives me some credits then i guess the world isn't that bad at all

[richierich1m 0]

i think the idea is technically wrong ,let me explain whyair itself is a matter so antimatter would react with air and would get itself destroyed and generate harmful radiation which would destroy the space shuttlei have a theory which would might work for using antimatter as boosters to space shuttleas far as i know the antimatter repels electromagnets ,so if antimatter are enclosed in vaccum and surrounded by electromagnets at the base of space shuttle ,and a small passage which would allow antimatter to react with air and cause the neseccary booster for the space shuttle,this theory is just a basic idea,but may things has to be considered here like how the electromagnets should be kept at the start of passage etc.but antimatter is no doubt the future energy station only a 1gm of antimatter power is capable of running the power of newyork city for a week , i think that said all about antimatter

[joedoe4_ 0]

I think it 'might' work....you know what that has a high rate of it workingonly problem is, is the area where the antimatter will be react strong enough?

[Cerebral Stasis 0]

wasn't Nibbler's species just producing black matter? ("it's so heavy that one tea spoon of it weighs as much as 10 000 tea spoons of it")

 

No, it was dark matter.

[laforgej 0]

I have a few things to clear up for some people who have been asking questions about anti-matter. When I read "Angles and Daemons" I was interested and spend some time researching antimatter. Antimatter is in effect the very simular to matter... You have have the full range of elements with all the same properties as matter as long as they do not come in contact with matter. Most of the time when you are talking about antimatter you are talking about anti-hydrogen when is the simplest element to create, although in theory it is possible to create all of the elements. It takes a massive amount of energy to create anti-matter, so unless we could find a natural source of antimatter (not likely in this galaxy), antimatter has no use for energy production. In my mind the only possible use for antimatter would be in space. My theory (100's of years off) involves a massive space installation that orbits the sun (as close as it can be without burning up). The installation would have a field of solar collectors which would harvest the suns every and store it in the form of antimatter. Electro Magnetic fields would be used to suspend the antimatter in a vacuum (which is not hard to get in space) And the EM field would not have to be as strong as on earth because there would be no gravity. After the antimatter is produced it could be used for various energy needs although you would most likely have to keep it in space due to the fact that it is harder to contain in earths gravity and atmosphere. If you can manipulate EM field with precision, a antimatter energy reactor would not be too hard to create... Everything would have to be in a vacuum and magnetic fields would move a small amount of matter and a small amount of antimatter to the same place and allow them to react. The problem is that the EM field have to be extremely accurate because antimatter holds so much energy that allowing to much of it into the reaction chamber at once would cause an explosion that the reaction chamber could not contain.And if you can not control antimatter this well, as long as you can contain it, it would make a hell of a bomb!!!Can anyone poke holes in my theories? I was writing this past my bedtime. lol

[jlhaslip 4]

And the EM field would not have to be as strong as on earth because there would be no gravity.

The Sun has a Gravitational force which is greater than Earth's, so the closer you get to the Sun, the stronger its Gravitational Force becomes. If I remember correctly, the gravitational attraction between two objects is a function of their mass and the distance between the objects. If the Space Station which the Anti-matter is generated from is closer to the Sun than we are, the effect of gravity would react stronger as you approach the Sun, yes?

[laforgej 0]

The Sun has a Gravitational force which is greater than Earth's, so the closer you get to the Sun, the stronger its Gravitational Force becomes. If I remember correctly, the gravitational attraction between two objects is a function of their mass and the distance between the objects. If the Space Station which the Anti-matter is generated from is closer to the Sun than we are, the effect of gravity would react stronger as you approach the Sun, yes?

Sorry I just took it to be assumed that the station is orbiting the sun and not in a fixed position

In an orbit gravity is countered by centrifugal force. So in effect things are weightless. If it were not this way we would be lighter in the day and heavier at night because of the sun gravity, plus the earth would by pulled into the sun.


*edit I looked it up the correct term is centripetal force not centrifugal force. They are almost the same thing
Edited December 9, 2006 by laforgej (see edit history)

[galexcd 0]

hmmmmm.... cylinder container.... hmmmmm..... suspended..... hmmmm sounds like somebody has read the da vinci code to me

[Jimmy 0]

Im trying to figure out how they would be able to ignite the matter/antine engine without blowing it up. I would ponder a guess that heat would just make it worse. Although that does bring up a futurama epsiode using anti-matter droppings from nibble to fire up the engine and what not.

Very good question, but I think it is possible to ignite without blowing it all up.

remember, we are working on a 1/3 of an atom or whatever scale so its very very small...

 

I think it would be possible to purposely make a small amount of antimatter at a time come into a small amount of air (or some other form of matter) that is disposable. This would happen in the "engine" of said vehicle, possibly in a vacuum, where antimatter and air can be injected to meet up.

This would result in annhialation in the "engine" space, that with certain special (heat resisting etc.) materials could be channeled to propel the ship or vehicle.

 

The size of the explosion can be controlled (with difficulty using a variable amount of antimatter or varying the amount of matter (e.g. gas/air in there) - not sure how you would vary it without exposing it to matter again!!! possibly ~ very ~ strong magnetic fields and some way to stop suppply being given after a couple of units of the stuff has gone into the "engine")

 

The biggest problem is simply containing antimatter, as as is the main point of this thread, when antimatter comes into contact with any form of matter it annhialates and there is a huge explosion. Maybe this could be done by somehow storing the antimatter in a vaccum, inside of which some techy has found a way to "bend" the space time (can be done using very large masses or other methods) - effectively making the space inside a really vast area -where the antimatter is in the middle - and keep it there!!.

This is also my response to the question posed in this topic: bend space time and store the antimatter in a huge vacuum, but this would mean that vacuum wouldn't take up too much space!

Edited April 8, 2007 by Jimmy (see edit history)

[dre 0]

Matter and antimatter do not respond identically or symmetrically to all of the fource forces in nature (grativy, electromagnetism, strong force, and weak force). Given, you can't be sure that EM or a gravity force will be able to contain the antimatter in place predictably, if at all.I'm not sure where you would be able to harvest pure antimatter and be able to contain it, but I have read somewhere that when gamma rays collide with atomic nuclei, their energy is sometimes converted into both positrons and electrons. And as we all know, particles and antiparticles annihilate each other, creating the energy you want. I guess the trick here would be to make sure that the gamma rays are able to hit the nuclei. However, the production of matter and antimatter would be uneven, yeilding random energy release. It could be possible that so little antiparticles would be produced that the reaction would not even start.Also, if you are going to store antimatter, you will have to be able to release it it very small amounts. If you just let the thing off like a firework, all of the antimatter will react in trillionths of a second, making you cruse through space at top speed... and then you have to figure out how to stop. That's why the idea of using matter to create particles and antiparticles appeals to me more: you can store it at ease, use whatever amount you need, without any dangers (depending on what element you use).The way I see it, the first thing that has to get figured out is how to be able to travel for long distances, and speed should be figured out later. The world will probably annihilate itself before this is available anyways, so there's really no hope of distant space travel for mankind.

Edited April 12, 2007 by dre (see edit history)

[hitmanblood 0]

I know for certain that they are able to produce antimatter in laboratories and this thing happened already in some of the amercian colliders and they are also doing a lot of research in Europe in CERN in Geneva actually they are producing or trying to produce Hicks Boson to prove the weight of the matter but new hadron collider they made is also able to produce antimatter as it is large energy scale. However we know for certain also that antimatter has its own weight and that it is producing gravitational pull this can be noticed on the bending of light on large distances. When we detect that light was bended but it shouldn't have been, also new international investment to produce laser based telescope might bring some more light to the antimatter it self as it would contain two high energy laser beams deployed at same time and return of them and its bending over long distance should prove existence of dark matter which is directly connected to the existence of antimatter. Also referring to the previous post we can test some of the laws on antimatter as when we have certain nucleus dividing we can observe antimatter particles interacting with other particles and we can measure their existence. And referring to the idea presented on the first page of this post. I think that it is not possible nor feasible as it has been many times said air is matter and only way to control and store antimatter would be if you have vacuum container. Example of such container can be found in the the Book Angels and Deamons by Dan Brown.

[csp4.0 1]

I have made a theory, but it will be extremely expensive and heavy. Ok her goes:Because you need the basic elements like an electron and a proton (sometimes a neutron) to make an atom.You'll need alot of tiny super-electro magnets, a place of 100% vacuum.First, you'll need to build the room, using alot of complex mathematical equations, put all those magnets around and inside the room. Put the anti-matter particles in pure form, and simplify them so all thats left is only positrons, negatrons, and the opposite of a neutron, then space them out, so each type of particle will rule over 1 part of the room. That will store the particles, and to use them, build another room, using the same technique, but put matter into it.Build a 'atom mixer' then just using those magnets, carefully move those anti-matter and matter particles into th mixer, BOOM! They collide providing the USS Enterprise Thrust.

[dre 0]

positrons, negatrons

Negatrons are electrons and positrons are electrons with a positive charge and with the opposite spin.

[hitmanblood 0]

I have made a theory, but it will be extremely expensive and heavy. Ok her goes:
Because you need the basic elements like an electron and a proton (sometimes a neutron) to make an atom.
You'll need alot of tiny super-electro magnets, a place of 100% vacuum.
First, you'll need to build the room, using alot of complex mathematical equations, put all those magnets around and inside the room. Put the anti-matter particles in pure form, and simplify them so all thats left is only positrons, negatrons, and the opposite of a neutron, then space them out, so each type of particle will rule over 1 part of the room. That will store the particles, and to use them, build another room, using the same technique, but put matter into it.
Build a 'atom mixer' then just using those magnets, carefully move those anti-matter and matter particles into th mixer, BOOM! They collide providing the USS Enterprise Thrust.

You haven't considered several factors and those are:
1. We are not able to produce 100% vacuum in labaratories maximum is currently some 10 to 20 millibars which in fact is more then atmosphere on the mars.
2. If this is isolated room how would you build antimatter as you have to transport it from the producing site as you have to put it somehow in the room and if it comes in touch with some other matter particle you'll have nice fireworks