kasm

Sorry that they moved my post to "health talk". In my opinion it wasn't right decision. The post about why I am Scientist but a believer in God. [i.e Science and belief] The post about mircales in our body which can not justified by chance or Evolution hypothesis or by Big Bang Theory. Then it is related to Evolution and Intelligance Design arguments. The example on the affect of my loosing or damaging the pituitary glad was given to stress why we have to believe that our body can not be by chance. How very tiny part in our brain "gland" affect our life.

I am a scientist (B.Sc , M.Sc & Ph.D) in Science and with Master in Systems Engineering and many others disciplines(Operations Research, Economics, Finance, Accounting, Project Managements,..) But I am believe in God. Also I was 5 years in Soviet Union in the time of Communism and Marxism ideology and this didn't affect my belief. As a researcher, System Engineer, I analysis the miracles of the systems in our body. As I am designer and programmer, I enjoyed being a designer and creator for things the human intelligence can make. So I have sense of creation and designer and feel that the Universe has creator too. And our systems in our bodies has Intelligent designer. I have studied Thermodynamics laws, Special and General Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, Newton Mechanics, Hydromechanics, Euclidean Geometry and Spherical Geometry, Optics and Electromagnetic Theory, Atomic Theory, with very high mathematical formulas and very complicated theories and equations. Logic and all method of proof I aware for. I can distinguish between what is science and what not. Before you jump and say something I tell you that religion is not science but it is a faith and belief. I studied Darwin's Theory but I consider it as fiction and not facts.So it is not science and can be considered a belief. I have the patience to read the scientific papers and research even if they are very new line or is not from my field or contradict my views because I have the basis grounds. So I have read thousands from different views about the philosophy, religion, beliefs,atheism, Darwinism , evolution, the Big bang Theory, astronomy, cosmology, etc. etc. As I am aware about the scientific discoveries and universe facts, I couldn't find anybody could create a tiny cell of life from scratch. May be we could manipulate the genes or cloning sheep but this is not from scratch. All what we study in science is "what is" and how it is going on.Why there is day and night?. The day is 24 hours and not 30. The earth is spanning around itself and go around the Sun etc etc. Why things is fallen to the ground ? [the gravity] . We put laws and formula to describe these phenomena. Verify the formula and correct it . But why these laws are in that shape and not not another. What the magnetism and electricity and what laws but why these law in that manner and not otherwise. What the concave or convex lenses and prism do to the light. What the different mirrors can do to the light and pictures... etc.... Few years ago, my sight had dropped suddenly. Four different specialists couldn't find any defects in my eyes. No operations can be done on my eyes and glasses can not help. Until MRI test has found a little tumer in the brain up of my nose. They suggested that this tumor may be doing pressure on my nerve from eyes to the brain and they suggested to make operation to get rid of it. I hesitated since I don't imagine that my scull will be broken in the operation. After their warning that I could be blind if I don't do that { reading and many hours using the computer are my life), I agreed to do the operation. Instead of opening the skull to reach the brain they did the operation through my nose. They removed the tumor but they damaged a very tiny thing is called pituitary Glands. The pituitary is a gland attached to the base of the brain which secretes hormones that govern the onset of puberty, sexual development of reproductive function.and sexual characteristic, mussels, hair, voice beside many other activities not related to me ( breast milk production, menstrual cycles, infertility, vaginal dryness, and loss of some female characteristics for women, growth hormones for children,...).Water levels in the body. Also this gland activate other gland functions. For example The pituitary secretes thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), which stimulates the thyroid gland to secrete hormones that affect body metabolism. . http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ [information extracted or sumerized from Medical Encyclopedia: https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000343.htm and other resources] The pituitary gland is a small structure that is located just below the brain. It is attached by a stalk to the hypothalamus, the area of the brain that controls its function. The hormones secreted by the pituitary and their functions are: - growth hormone (GH), which stimulates growth of tissues and bone - thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), which stimulates the thyroid gland to secrete hormones that affect body metabolism - adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), which stimulates the adrenal gland to secrete cortisol which helps to maintain blood pressure - prolactin, which stimulates female breast development and milk production - luteinizing hormone (LH), which controls sexual function in males and females - follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), which controls sexual function in males and females - antidiuretic hormone (ADH), which controls water loss by the kidneys - oxytocin, which stimulates contraction of the uterus during labor and milk release from the breasts. Also the pituitary gland controls the release of FSH (follicle-stimulating hormone) and LH (luteinizing hormone), which govern the onset of puberty, sexual development and reproductive function. After the operation and loosing the pituitary glad, I have Hypopituitarism. Because the pituitary gland affects the other endocrine organs, effects of hypopituitarism may be gradual or sudden and dramatic. I gained weight(30 km), I become dehydrate my face hair stop growing ( I was happy for that), my voice become softer, frequently thirsty, frequently urine ...The extra weight (30 km) affect my heart pressure. So they give me a hormone replacement therapy. I take tablets for Thyroxine, Cortisone. As a caution of heart diseases, I have to take three medicine plus cholesterol tablets. For not being dehydrate and to control myself and to not be wet and control my urine, I have to puff minirin nasal in my nose on the night and morning. For edema in my feet (swallow feet), I have to take some tablets plus potassium supplements. So I can not leave my place for long times. So I have to retire and sit before the computer many hours and shuttle between fridge to drink and Toilette . All this because my tiny gland lost or damaged?. I will explain it in seperate posting in series of postings to show the mircles in our body which can not be there by chance or evolution or big bang.

1. This thread titled " civilization" but it mentioned the disputed matter about Evolution and the Age of Earth. 2. Yes for your " no one has yet to proven or it has shown up yet to us. that we have been created by an all powerful being to us..". But in the same time no one can be of sure that :" fire was created by accident by the first ancient cilivilation of man" . This is also view or belief. I agree with it because no another explanation or sugesstion. The same I agree about the histroy of mankind given in Gensis because it is our heritage from generation to next since Adam and no another convinced explanation Nothing in hisory recorded before 8000 years. Also no civilization could be found more than 7000 years. see [Choronology of the beginning of civilization 4000 bc to 401 B.C, but before that it classified prehistory at : http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ 3. I am Coptic i.e native Egyptian before invasion of Arab. My ancesstors the ancient Egyptian left traces up to about 5500 years. 4. The same the civilization in Iraq (babeleon or Mesopotamia ) or Syrian (Asyrian) has trace to before Abraham. Jews and Hebrews know their Patriarch Father Abraham is. In the same time he is the father of Arabs [they called him Ibrahim] and many other nations. Some archology shows trace to the time of Lot. Recently the space photos showd the trace of the two missing rivers and with the 2 rivers in Iraq, it completes the 4 rivers in Aden Garden mentioned in Gensis. see ...the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers 5. Abraham knows his granfathers till Adam. But no civiliasion showd before that .Then these 7 million Skul fragement either it belongs to non civiliside creation or the invistigator manipulate the fosil to be drawn as it is to a human man.or the methods of dating the are not acurate. 6. "But which comes into play the whole we came from monkeys" is not right . Even Darwin didn't say that. I was one of the prioner student studied this theory in 1959 i.e 46 years ago when not all student were studied it. I didn't dispute it at all and repeat it in exam as we do now when we quote something said by others.I have gift fro God to rember evey information I got since 3 years of age and when I have got it .That I know of sure that Darwin didn't say that. He and his follower are still looking what they called the missing link. 7. Also it is not mean that we are like 95-98% are alike dna wise as in monkey, means that we are from them. I was programmering for the computer since 1964, In our times wasn't software as it now. I considered myself a creator when I produced programs. Because we put the algorithm the draw flow chart then check the flow chart then program using the current computer languages. If there were not ready mathematical methods, we try to drive one. Of course when I programed for prime number , I put idea as when I programmed to factorization(90%). When I programmed for T-test in statistics I put ideas as when I programmed to normal distribution test or f-test. Take another example the Shakspere's Production, the analysis of them can find some similarities. The same for Davinci arts. Another example now days in computer age . You will find many similarities between between Pentimum 3000 and Peintium 3800 but they not produce 3000 to develop the same CPU to become 3800. But the similarities is because the creator is the same (whetever one or team or company) That why I believe that if the DNA for X and Y are similar 80% , it does because the designer or the creator is the same.

Dear WDSnav and everyone who hates school, 1. You have responsibility to give your generation and next generations a new facilities . Our parents generations and our generation gives you the electricity, trains, trams, buses, cars, airplanes, TV, video, CD, TV, Movies, computers, copiers, printers, telephones, mobiles, messages, and video games etc..... 2. It is your job now to study and grow in knowledge as your body grows. 3. Your parents help you and do jobs outside and inside home to let you study and gain knowledge. Otherwise you have to wash your clothes, get some money to live, cook your food, clean your place etc...etc 4. School is not only for knowledge but to exercise the life by practicing how to related to others, make friends, share sports, protect your self by different mean and how to solve the problems. 5. You see and hear how the royals children are going to school too. They don't say why ? we don't need it. Even in the olden days, princes were taught by hard teachers, philosophers and trainer.. 6. You have to make your balance , if you have spare time after study (I say if ..), you can watch TV , video , read books and newspaper, listen to musics, chats, make some social activities and sports. Otherwise you have the school vacation to do that and you are lucky and have 2 wekend breaks nowdays (in our times was one). 7. You are complaining for tiny home works, our generation did lot of them and voluntary home work too and we went to bed very very late. 8. Don't say it is waste of your time. It is your fun times. Remember if you are not go to school then you have to work to eat and do everthing to yourself. Your parents will not let after your 6 years age to stay home to play videogame while they have to work out and in the house.

1. Of course everyone think that his relegion is the right otherwise he will convert to another belief. That is why it is called belief. 2. But that not mean you attack the others and accuses them by stupidity nor attack the icons of their belief. 3. But if somebody criticize your belief or their keys, you have the right to respond but with civilized arguement and debated polite discussion manner. 4. This is cover anything hasn't prove that it is fact like Evolution as well as Creation and Intelligence Design.

1. The first sentences is nonsense and violate the rule. 2. It is your fault that you go to religious school and then complain. You are lucky that you in country with options. Why you don't go to public schools where are forbidden to say anything about religion. Leave Christian schools to those who choose to be taught religion. If your parents who enforce you go to Christiann schools, then blame them not the christian. 3. It is unfair to criticize Crusades for protecting Christian Churches to not becomes mosques as happened in Egypt, Syria and Turkeys. 4. It is unfair to criticize Christian from not protrcting Jews in War II if they couldn't protect their catholic people in France and Poland or Orthodox people in Bulgaria, Romania, Ukrania and Russia . But I know many stories for people and churches in Poland and others countries about how they hided Jews but in their limits of ability. 5. Sex scandals is not relating to Christian only. What did Turk in Balkan, Armenia, Bulgaria and Romania... 6. Yes British and Frensh occupation did nasty things but is not in the name of Christianity. But they brought some civilization but is not the case of Turkish that brought nothing but bad characters. Arabic, Turkish invasion destroyed other nations too. We lost the source of knowledge that is the Library of Alexandria in results of it [Doesn't matter who burned it]. Before that what did Alexander, Roman Empire, Persian Empire , Jenkis Khan to the world?

1. Why we need Archaeologists to tell that Jesus even existed?. If we know the places he was, the places the family lived in their escape to Egypt as refugee. St Helene found the cross. Archeaeologists needed when the cities were covered by sands and dust by the times. Do you need Archaeologist to prove how your grand grand parents come to Newzlend?.Do we need Archaeologist to tell when Captain Cook came to Australia or they discovered America. There is contious history and generation tell the next generation. Historian recorded the events. Jesus was after Alexander. Did you disbelieve the existence of Alexander too. Do my ancestors [the ancient Egyptians] who was martyred by Romans hundred years after Jesus reseruction, were martyred in vain for believing in ghost and non existent person. There were millions was martyred and their bones were on the deserts years until St Helene [The mother of Empror Constantine] came and buried them in places are now churches and monasteries in Egypt. Do we buried a fake St Marks in Alexandria and they stole his head to Italy and build church in his name there but Pope Rome returned it back 40 years ago , all of these were lies and we are stupid and few in their places can deny all things very easy. The interesting thing that you deny Jesus existence but you quoted from St Thomas Gospel where the first sentence in this Gospel is : Thomas1 2. The organization that prepared to you the list of contradictions in Bible [which is not correct with open minded attitude] succeeded in mislead people as you to loose their faith. They put the big title " Pat is not bird" and list from birds allowed to eat and not to eat. I myself don't give attention and skimming that chapter when read the Bible. Pat, the flying fox in Australia [is flying mammal]. But for non scientific people Pat is bird especially 4000 years ago. It is not big deal and is not error. Good communication must occured by language understandable to the receiver. The classification of animal world as you know has done few hundred. years ago and still has exceptions like Platypus echidna [egg-laying mammals like birds]., I remember when one day I was teaching the computer to be intelligent. I taught him that if the living thing is laying eggs then it is reptile or insect or bird. If it is fly then it is bird or insect.....but I conflicted with Platypus and echidna because they are egg-laying mammal. .Then I have to give more condition that is : and if It gives milk to young then it is Platypus or echidna then we need another thing to distinguish between them [like what they eat]. Pat [is flying animal]. But for non scientific people is bird . 3. I didn't say that you can't be friend to Moslem's and Jews, the opposite I said that I helped them to understand their own religion when I was in Russia 5 years and don't use this as opportunity to teach them Christianity. I am also has good Moslem's friends and Jews in everywhere. I said you can not criticized them as you do now with Christian. They defend their belief strongly to the degree [Jihad war] and I admire them for that because I am criticizing the Christian for their passive mode. 4. I don't say that any debate with the minority Muslim in your country will result of blowing you. There is different between debate and attack. Can you tell your Moslem's friend why their prophet was married to more than 4 [4 in the same time]. How he in his 6o of ages was married a child 13 years old?. Again I am not intervene in their religion and never I questioned them that except inside me but I said for you that is not safe. The Pakistani writer "Solman Rushdie" is in hiding 20 years because he implicitly mentioned that in his book. Do you heard about killing a producer of a film in Holland because the film was considered insult to the Islam. Do you hear what is going on the news now days against Denmark because one journalist draw something considered insult abut the Moslem's Prophet "Mohamed" . You know the western countries protect freedom of speech. They can not prevent that as you freely attacked Moses, Jesus or his disciples by "sexist" " narrow minded" But Danish goods will be blockeded for that by many Islamic countries [i admired them]. They also asked UN and European countries to make laws prohibited insulting religious feeling. [i repeat I understand and admire their defense ). 5. I know the logic of the English language well and I was teaching computers to be intelligent. Called the leaders of a person's religion by the worlds "sexist" , "narrow minded" are insult . [see cometolife post too and other] 6. You are free to criticized but not with extreme words which are not true and can not measured as "sexist "narrow minded". "No priesthood for women" is not mean they are second class. Motherhood is not second class but is for people who is really narrow minded. My mother and my sisters are not second class because they were not allowed to be in army, police or priesthood. The biological and period cycle and motherhood function don't make them suitable to these jobs as "priesthood" or "army" [specially the old type of army], police or firemen or hunting animal or fishing in dangerous seas[ not as a Hopis nowdays] . But teaching and nursing, doctors are very suitable to female. In some countries they are 70% or more. In the nature you can see the role of Lion and Lionesses. The role of Queen bee and the male or worker bee [ in your opinion they are poor in second place]. 7. Do you know in Judaism that the priesthood were only allowed to people from certain tribe from the 12 tribes. Jews hasn't objection and call God or Moses "narrow minded" and it is discrimination. God not give this tribe lands as the others. 8. Everyone is in his/her mind that he/she "deal in reality and facts " and "I believe what I know to be true in my heart". If you think that you are the only one who think that then you are arrogant. [search the meaning of it in dictionary] 9. I don't against quoting from St Tomas Gospel but questing using this incpmplete gospel [114 verses only] while the same can be find is in the other 4 complete Gospels which reflect how the others are direct you - 10. Why you believe the story of Giglameshand and not what was in the Bible if it different and if they are similar [not mean exactly the same] then there are no problem.. 11. Then we come to that is not death but as usual you have concluded other things. 12. I am accurate when I said that you said the bible 2000 years old. how you interpret your say: 13. You have some posting after my posting questioning yours in the Intelligent Design vs Evolution . Also you have posting here in the period you said you was absent. Anyhow until now I didn't receive the answers there. 14. I didn't say u said that I am extremist but Ii gave that in advance to avoid thinking that. Notice from BuffaloHELP: When you double post, even it was a connection fault, use REPORT button. Otherwise double post warning will be issued.

1. Thorne Rose, I will not debate you here. Enough our debate in ID vs Evolution thread and you didn't answer my questions. 2. But here I only show your contradictions and mistakes to learn from. But first, I am not extreme Christian and have no activities in breaching or any relegional service. But I understand good about the three Abrahamic relegion: Juadism, Christianity and Islam. 3. you said that you don't intend to insults but in fact you put poisons everywhere as saying : . You can say I believe what I know to be true in my heart and not what others tell me. STOP. Nobody will argue you or accuse you or enforce pressure on you to change your belief. You contradict yourself saying elsewhere: Who were polite and who were arrogant? ! 4. It is safe and not dangerous to attack Christianity. But try to say any bad about Jews or Moslem's. In the first case you will be accused that you are anti--Semite's and in the second one your blood will be allowed as it happened in Holland and Denmark or before the Pakistani author who are in hidings in 5. It is error to think bible is 2000 year old. It is about 2000 since Jesus was born. The bible since Moses. 6. In same time you believe in Evolution which Darwin put and nobody give us one example of its correctness. If you nare student you can quote in exams what they said in classes without believing . leave the matter to latter age and not reject the others sites. They willn react togother and produce your final belief. 7. You believe what they said about (the origin of stars and planets which amount to anything more than "fairy tales and? imagination. 8. You quoted from Thomas Gospel and leave the same from other Gospel away. By the way this Thomas Gospel was found with other Gospels near a? Grand mother? city Nag Hammadi in Egypt Yes now I am an Australian but I am Copt not Arab from Egypt. Copts are the aboriginal p[people of Egypt i.e their ancestor the ancient Egyptian.It was in Jar [the method of protection from flood, mice and fire. Every Apostle to Jesus has a Gospel with unique copy [no printers, no copiers, no time to copy]. But with four international conference of the christian they choose the Gospels what in the new testament now. That because they are complete and describes different objects [theology, Jesus life, Jesus miracles, Events from birth to resurrection]. These other Gospel are not complete and has no contradictions with what we have. Christianity in India was breached by St Thomas. They are Orthodox and they not use Thomas Gospel. 9. To be fair and just you have to listen to both site. Don't go to site of Atheism or ant-christian and expect to hear from the truth. Go to other site and read what hey say and respond. 10. Translation of Bible from Greek or Hebrews are not easy tasks. Different translation are different slightly so call it errors. but are not intentionally. Jehovah Witness said there are 7000 mistakes that because they want instead of world "God" to put "Jehovah.". Are this a serious mistakes?. When I read Bible in Arabic I read Allah as the name of God as the Moslem's say. But this is not make me Moslem's. Allah is God in English , Gotten in German Bog in Russian. Then when the English translators used word "God" They were not mistaken as Jehovah witness claim. The translations is better than no translation. Muslim of all world read their Holly Book "Koran" in Arabic only. I met many Muslim in different countries and when they knows that I am Egyptian they jumped to wrong conclusion that I am Muslim . They started to ask me. I explain to them because I know Christianity, Judaism and Islam very well. They repeat the verses without knowing their meaning. It is forbidden the translation. But in the Internet age, there are Koran in English on the net. They claim that it is the meaning and not translation [i don't know the difference] 11. I don't know from where you come that bible consider bat a bird. Here in Australia, we call bat flying fox. Anyhow the bible is not scientific book and these classification of animal are recently established. Also the flatness of the earth is not in the bible but the opposite there. It was problem of the culture in one period of time. 12. If the story in Gilgamesh is similar to what in Bible then there is no problem. They have to coincident if they speak about the same period or events. Koran talk about Jesus, Moses, Abraham, David, Salmon and Joseph. The history in Bible covered all events since Adam 7000 years ago. We know exactly the history since Jesus. The Gospel tell us the tree from Jesus until David and the old testament tell us the tree from David to Abraham then from Abraham to Adam. That including Babylon tower and Noah Ark stories. 13. It is wrong to think that : Christians suppose to humble and loves everyone even their enemies 14. Also is wrong to say : Now when we say Catholic we mean "Roman Catholic" church. But Catholic in Greek mean universal . Then in the greed we say we believe in one Catholic Apostolic Church using the greek word "Catholic" . That not mean the Roman Catholic Church. [sometimes we translate completely and say we believe in one Universal Church. Because we believe that church be one and should be united. I am in the Coptic Orthodox church established by St Mark in Alexandria. He was the first Patriarch for Alexandria. Church in Rome established by St Paul and St Peter. The Church in Constantinople's is the Greek Orthodox Churches [Russia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria,....]. Also there is Antioch patriarch . Those were 4 seas independent pilars for the Christianity. I am not sure to what branches Armenian and Georgian churches belong to [because they were in former Soviet Union but they are Orthodox].

1. Even this is "Vent" forum but does not mean one can insult other or use words like "stupid" or "silly" or seriously doubt that other person is "honest scientist". Do you know what they call that person who insult other because he/she not reachable in the time of insult ? 2. I asked: it was response to the extreme sentence.: Since I can not see except micro evolution examples. That why I previously warned to not confuse us with micro evolution examples as samples for the Darwin evolution (i.e macro evolution). We are familiar with breeding process to produce various kinds of horses, cows, cheep, dogs, cats,...etc.. The "variation within a kind" is what Darwin observed in the mid-1800's, and what we still observe today... The mule is a cross between a horse and a donkey. Nectarine is cross between beach and apricot.. Also We all know and recocgnise the viruses and bacteria development(microevolution) as well as the development of the defence system (microevolution). But no scientist has ever seen a host animal develop a new defence mechanism causing it to evolve into a higher life-from; similarly, no one has ever witnessed a parasite develop a new, improved attack method that ultimately resulted in its transformation into a new species. (macro evolution if occurred) Evidence that microevolution occurs but macro evolution does not . 3. When we speak about "Evolution" we mean Macro Evolution or "Darwinism hypothesis" and not the word "evolve" from the dictionary and say any change in new direction is Evolution. Yes it is Evolution but not what cover our argument "Darwin' Theory". There are 6 types of evolution known to me: (i) Cosmic Evolution (the origin of space, time, matter and energy from nothing, there are 5 different theories competing . Each has its strength or weakness. the famous one the "big bang" theory does not address the major question, "where did everything come from?" . How did this explosion cause order, while every explosion causes only disorder and dist ructions? Also the Big Bang also violates two out of three Laws of Thermodynamics); (ii) Chemical Evolution:(the development of the higher elements from hydrogen that can verified); iii) Stellar and Planetary Evolution (the origin of stars and planets amount to anything more than "fairy tales," and imagination has no part in real science); iv) Organic Evolution (the origin of organic life. Kids taught Spontaneous Generation as the Origin of Life, despite the apparent contradiction to empirical science? Francesco Redi and Louis Pasteur have succeeded in disproving Spontaneous Generation long time ago) (v) Macro Evolution (the study of how new species arise but it is still lack of transitional fossils in the fossil record, and the harmful trend of genetic mutation (a beneficial mutation is yet to be observed)); and (vi) Micro Evolution (the study of how alleles in a population change i.e. the variation within the kinds This observed and documented Don't wory, I read these articles and the given examples are either micro evolution examples or abnormality cases. Which hypothesis you speak about?. Occurance of micro changes which we recognise and we don't debate it or the change from one type to higher type as Darwin theory sugests. The discussion is not wich was first or whether there are similiraties between pentium 3 or 4 !! or if they are related. I give this example to say "even there are big similarities between them, does not mean Pentium 4 evolved from Pentium 3 (physically) not the idea. Then if you want add the real reason for that you can do your own (mine is because the creator or the designer whetever individual or a team was the same) . I hope that what you called by alfredglenstein as "silly Example" is clear now I was programmering for the computer since 1964, In our times wasn't software as it now. I considered myself a creator when I produced programs. Because we put the algorithm then draw flow chart then check the flow chart then write the program using the current computer languages. If there were not ready mathematical methods, we try to drive one. Of course when I programed for prime number , I put idea as when I programmed to factorization(90%). When I programmed for T-test in statistics I put ideas like that when I programmed to normal distribution test or f-test. That what theory Darwin says. But until now we didn't see one example that change microevolution to become macroevolution (change the kind). I still asking alfredglenstein or Thorne Rose and I still waiting. I don't know who originaly invited the terms of micro or macro evolution, but I know that Darwinism are using these terms and there are department in Faculty of science called microbiology. So please answered the question and don't go shouting and accusing who invite them. They are different and has accurate diffinition [see above] and you have not enforce others how to classify . Scientifically, you define or give assumption, infer and deduce and experiement and others see what gaps in your procedure. Am I right? Then we go to square zero. The hypothis still Hypothis need proof. This fact has not to bother anybody. Not right. I do not say that and will not . There are history and civilisation and nobody recorded anything related from 7000 years. By the way in Egypt there is tree new by Jesus was playing when he and his mother was refugee in Egypt. We know what happened in Egypt 7000 years from what written in papyrus or on Temples.

I didn't said there are no researches or studies about Evolution but I said there is no proof had received to this hypothesis then it is still not fact. I am aware what the three [in fact 5 ] groups are saying in thousands of publications. The question has this experiment mentioned above has produced living thing?. Saying "The experiment , if left long enough" lead us to square zero? i.e we still not proved it . And how "long enough" to be enough. It is invalid inference. If we have similarities does not mean we have a common ancestor. This is wrong conclusion and jump to the point you want to prove. Take this example , the PC Pentium 4 and another computer Pentium 3, have many in common. That not mean that Pentium 4 was before Pentium 3 or first generation of PC. Please give us even one example that one animal changed to another in reality. I agree and I am highest degree scientist [i said that in my first reply]. If it is not enough I give details:? I studied 4 years? in Faculty of Science for Bachelor degree then 3 years preparing Master Degree. then 4 years for PH.D degree. If all the course's subjects are still not approved, then it is belief so it is not be taught in science class. As well as Creation or Intelligence Design. Show us where it's happening. But don't confuse Micro Evolution with Macro Evolution This is another own belief so I will not debate it as you said "I believe...". But do you believe in Evolution the same manner?

it is still very surprising that computers are so limited in calculating something that seems so easy to define. Anyway what no. are we at now, and how fast is our progress? lol the progress of mankind in numbers 224300[/snapback] Yes man define , suggest algoriths for solution , traslate this algorithms into programs and the computer execute it. We are thinking to execute i.e find the solution or in our example the prime numbers of 10 million figures. Last year we couldnt dream about that before Pentium 4 3000 or more. Next year we can think about the prime of 100 million figure after more strong computer will be created. Exactly as Nasa needs more speady craft toward planets in our solar system and in futureto planet of other system, we still need more powerful computers to solve other computing needs. I ask people [not including you ] who don't contribute and not interested , I asked them to do favour to us and do not post just for posting and they have to initiate their interesting themes. Leave 7000 grazy and intelligent people to do their grazy works. This thread is not a poll to answer the question of to do or not to do.

1. Saga, it is not necessary that tiny point , "the beginning of man?" since nobody can approve his/her story. It is a beleif so has different version. So I suggest we have to make it out of school for church, media , books and clubs. If some people can not believe the story of Genisus happened 7 thousands year ago. how they can trust and believe fantasy stories alleged happened billions of year?. Nobody is thinking without prejeduce, can believe that an big bang explostion can create a life. It did destructions and may be if it happened initiated the universe. Yes the universe is expanding but not mean it according to big bang theory. Scientifically can not be proved. It fact if you don't know there are many theories compete with the big bang theory. Moreover until now nobody could create a tiny living cell from scratch. THEN THAT WHAT I SUGGESTED THAT WE LEAVE IT TO OUT OF SCHOOL AND WE WILL NOT LOOSE A LOT BY DOING THAT. 2. Obsession is happened in history before the relegion. What Alexander did. What the Roman and Persian Empire has done?. What Jenkis Khan did? Etc etc. So we have to not blame the relegion that make it better but not and absolutely dark. Read history ofv Europe before Christianity. Read history of Africa and the tribes who diminish others. Anyhow this point out of the this thread'd topic but to reply to saga. Morever my suggestion is to leave relegion and Evolution out of schools. 3. Materialism and Idealism can be taught in philosphy classes where some student will choose it. Because they are belief. The Logic only can be studied for all because it is the father for Math which other sciece branch depends. Also the Logic can teach students how to prove and argue the right way.

1. In fact neither Creation nor Evolution nor Designl Intelligence should be taught in science classes or in school in general. 2. I am scientist to highest degree and I stress that Evolution is not science but belief. Evolution is Fiction and not Facts. There are known method of proof. There are nothing to proof this hypothesis . you can't use the scientific method on it or experiment with it either. There is definition to science and Evolution don't satisfy it. Evolution hijacked the science and is continuing to do so by shouting and the passive actions for the believer. 3. All science branches can be taught without Evolution. I wonder how was the Biology, Genetics [started by monk in monstry] Astronomy , Chemistry, Physics was taught before this Evolution hypothesis. Moreover Mathematics and Computer and Physiology, Anatomy, Medicine Health Sociology, Business Studies, Languages don't needs the Evolution hypothesis. How many great invention were made before it. How many scientist in past and now [included me ] are believer. The problem is the minority are winning by shouting and majority are loosing by their passiveness. It is minority dictatorship which enforces their belief[not the facts] on the majority [ Why we blame Hitler then]. They repeat their leaders blided and attack any opposition. 4. I was one of the pioneer students who studied Darwinism in 1959 [i.e 47 years ago] by my choice because it was optional subject. I considered it as the English novel "The lost world " [which about dinosaurs and missing link ] was in our curricula in that time too. I answered it as we quoted now what the other say but not what I believe. I got 27 from 30 [i don't forget things happened since 3 years old age. It is Gift from God].

Five female prisoners in US Custody are to be released. This will be step in freeing abducted U.S. journalist Jill Carroll. Two of them are scientists in sugession that they may were involved in chemical or biological weapons. As a scientist , I wonder why US jailed them. They are researcher in these field. Mathematician or Physics and Chemistry students are studying and researching Einstein theory and Atomic theory but that don't mean producing atomic bombs. Moreover the American failed to find these weapon of mass destruction, then why all arrested in the beginning of Iraq's invasion are still in prison till now. ? ! Detailed in : http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

1. After sonyguy initiated this thread, I have participated in this competition with two computers and I only test 6 numbers so far. Testing a number took one month on Pentium 4. Since I started in October but the others started in last February, I decided not to write my own program (which need time to test and verify) but I dediced to cooperate in a Group. In the GMSP group you either suggest and reserved number to test or they assign you one by connecting to a central server on the Internet (called PrimeNet) to get exponents to test and to report your results. 2. You will not waste time to test but your computer dothe job in matter not affect your use of your computer.You do not need a permanent Internet connection. The program waits in the background until you connect to the Internet. While you are browsing or reading your email, the program will send its small messages to the server. Also you can override this automatic behavior and completely control when the program contacts the server. 3. My rank is now became 7581 from 26,352 4. It is a serious matter and not for joking or guessing as the postings of St_micheal, bluhapp, shadowdemon, Plenoptic, Cerebral Stasis,..It is a very serious matter from thosands of year. But the computers give us the chance to perform what few years ago we couldn't. Of course the human was who approved the theories, the algorithm and the programs. Once the program is checked and tested and verified using many small and known data, it can be used for the bigger data which the creator of the program couldn't do for his/her spead time limit and life age limit.This beside that he/she can not guarntee performing his/her algorith without mistakes. 5. The reward is from the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) which was founded in 1990 to defend and protect our civil liberties in the networked world. It defend free speech, privacy, innovation, consumer rights and the public interest in every critical battle affecting digital rights. EFF beats back bad legislation. In addition to advising policymakers, EFF educates the press and public. 6. The cometition is not " finding the largest prime number " but the first prime number that have minimum 10 million digits. after that we are looking for more larger.That mean no stop [answering member Liance] 7. In mathematics, an integer greater than one is called a prime number if its only positive divisors (factors) are one and itself. For example 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, and 13. The Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic by Euclid (350 BC) shows that every positive integer is a product of prime numbers in one and only one way, except for the order of the factors 8. The uses of prime numbers Some are questioning why we looking for the prime numbers. Our member _R_Crazy_Idiot said . Also Sirius and as well amhso asked In fact nobody claimed any envolvement of prime numbers in that. But somebody mentioned the cooperative or distribution computations which helped in that. But in facts, the uses of primes are manifold: - They were first studied because many of the properties of numbers are directly tied to their factorizations. - They are used for a variety of encryption methods used to keep transactions safe and in CD and DVD protection. - The search for Mersenne primes has proved useful in development of new algorithms, testing computer hardware, and interesting young students in math. I think the INTEL, Celeron and AMD are itersted in testing their processor. - NASA scientists even decided that they are a good sign of intelligence and have included a short list of primes on the plaques sent out with the voyager spacecraft. - As computers and cryptology continually give new emphasis to search for ever larger primes, this number will continue to grow. Before long we expect to see the first ten million digit prime. 9. How many primes are there? The ancient Greeks proved (ca 300 BC) that there were infinitely many primes and that they were irregularly spaced (there can be arbitrarily large gaps between successive primes). On the other hand, in the nineteenth century it was shown that the number of primes less than or equal to n approaches n/log n) (as n gets very large); so a rough estimate for the nth prime is n log n . 10. What are Mersenne primes? cse-icons asked "hey u mentioned 'Mersenne number'. what exactly is it?" and the answer is: - A Mersenne prime is a prime number of the form M(P)= 2P-1. Practicaly it is difficult to write number with 10 million figures because it will fill thousands of screan or pages . That why most of competitors including me try to concentrate on what is called Messerine number which is very subset of all numbers. That because it can be expressed as the diference of 2 of power -1. - There are 42 known Mersenne primes so far. The 42d was disscovered in Fabruary 2005. - The first few values of P which yield a Mersenne prime are M(2)=3, M(3)=7, M(5)=31, M(7)=127. - A Lucas-Lehmer primality test is used to determine if 2P-1 is prime. It take about a month to perform this test on Pentium 4 3000

The head is not definitive so doesn't satisfy the rule It is better to be changed to "what inactive means"

Thanks for correction That is reasonable now. 23 cases since 1884 and can be considered as other defective [2 heart, 3 eyes, 6 fingers, etc ]. The beginning of my doubts was questioning using math for wrong purposes[than 12 millions without specific times]. I am mathematician. Then came the logical question that was why the Darwinists didn't mention any of these 12 millions as evidence for their claims. I am aware of all their others claims. I am as scientist is seeking truth and real proof before hypothesis to be considered a fact.

1. This is Joke was published on Feb 2002 i.e four years ago. 2. Even Darwinisms have been never mentioned it and they still looking for the missing Link !!!!!! 3. The article didn't say how they counted the 12 millions. Is this number at the moment or accumulation of the 7000 years of civilization. 4. Then why Dr x is " so embarrassed by the two-foot tail that juts out from his own behind.". Who could easily did operation to get rid of them as the operation of circumstance or separation of twins or extra defected part . 5. The article mentioned that: "No one wants to come out and admit that tails are as common as they are," says Dr. X." Then from where he find the 12 millions" 6. Being with tail or not, what this deal with Christianity? 7. How we verify his findings if he hide himself under Dr"X". 8. Saying that .Nothing rocked us and most of us heard about this joke from this posting after 4 years from publishing in a newspaper. 9. Of course there are some have tail as any defect [similar to who have 2 hearts, who have six fingers, who don't have eyes...] 10. This remind us with the faked Haeckel's drawing on which Darwin used in his book "The Origin of Species". Ernst Haeckel, a German biologist, had supposedly shown that embryos from various animals were identical to each other in their earliest stages. Darwin had written that " . But the drawings has been faked to Support Evolution. Haeckel's drawings of several different embryos, showing incredible similarity at their early tailbud stage. But another evolutionist, British embryologist Michael Richardson, gave photographs of how the embryos of these same animals really look at the same stage[springer-Verlag GmbH & Co., Tiergartenstrasse, 69121 Heidelberg, Germany] . Richardson confirmed that in a letter to Science: 11.However, in 1997, Mike Richardson with an international team of experts, comparing Haeckel's drawings with actual embryos ,including actual photographs of a large number of different embryos, showed that embryos of different kinds are very distinct . [.K. Richardson et al., There Is No Highly Conserved Embryonic Stage in the Vertebrates: Implications for Current Theories of Evolution and Development, Anatomy and Embryology 196(2):91106, 1997. ]They concluded that Haeckel's work "looks like it's turning out to be one of the most famous fakes in biology" (Elizabeth Pennisi, "Haeckel's Embryos: Fraud Rediscovered," Science 277, 1997, p. 1435). This study was widely publicized in science journals and other media. 12.Today, many, biologists recognize that Haeckel faked his drawings to support his theory that embryos in essence reenact their species' evolutionary history as they develop. Biologist Jonathan Wells writes that: 13. Here we find a classic example of how the prejudices of those examining scientific evidence affect their conclusions. Haeckel, as many other evolutionists over the years, saw only the evidence he wanted to see and apparently believed that the ends (what he believed was the truth of evolution) justified the means (erroneous and even fraudulent supposed proofs of the theory). 14. In spite of repeated discrediting, however, Haeckel's ideas and drawings still appear in many recent textbooks and are presented as fact. A book published in 1998 , Teaching about Evolution has no excuse for being unaware that the idea of extensive embryonic similarities is outdated and based on fraud. Notice from BuffaloHELP: Copied portions from http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ esp. ś 3, 7 & 9 and https://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/drawings-faked-to-support-evolution as cross reference. Warning issued.

To Orthodox Copts, Arabs, Russians, Ukranians Serbs, Bulgarians, Romanian, Who celebrate Christmas on the 7th of January by the old clendar.{ Please let us know from others celebrating and haven't been mentioned]: Happy Christmas

Only one miner alive. Offical in West Vargina has announced. Few hours ago the Governer was announced that he had been told 12 of the miners survived the disaster and relatives were celebrating that . Details at: http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ So 5 mine accidents in USA since 1984 took life of 67 miners. Morever frequent mines accidents in Russia, Ukrania and China. The critical question is: When the researches in robotics and Artificial Intelligence will be applied and developed in such way that after starting the productions, the robots will be the only workers in the mines. The same in the nuclear activities.

!. The forum, Dawiss, is to read and reading is not object in itself but to receive benefit [adding knowledge]. 2. I who has 62 years of age, accept to learn and others to teach me every day until my departure of this world to the another one. 3. English is not my mother tongue too and you have to be grateful that somebody correct you instead you repeat the mistakes all your life. Personally I check my posting using yahoo or msn message's formulation and this not bad idea to do this shortcut too. 4. The forum has rules, threads and topics. All what I asked is to keep the discussion in the point of the topic I initiated. I asked you if don't care, as you said, or you don't believe in God , then go to another topic or initiate one. There are many threads about God existence, believing in God or religions. The topic here is about the mean by "Christmas" that we act accordingly. I said that Christams contains to parts: "Christ" from Christ and "mas" mean birth by old languages e.g. "Egyptian ancient language" or probably be used by Greek as well. You can argued that I am wrong and Christ for example for "... " and "mas " means "... " according to which research, article or dictionary "..". 5. I know that Christmas is for "giving" but this is not why we celebrate it but one of its feature which comes from Jesus teaching for love and giving and I will not add these phrases here that you will complain for long reply. 6. It is last thing in my mind the credit points when I post. I don't participate and say anything ad-hoc. Only I want to give what I inquired or researched and correct what I can the mistakes I could see towards better life.

Please, Gr4ve_Digger, you should read all posting in this topic and don't repeat what others suggested. Otherwise we go to endless circle. It is not poll matter..Who with 25 Dec or who against. In the beginning , Saint_michael said : and I replied saying: Then Mature Lamb said: and I replied: The topic is not when? but is the invitation to concentrate on Jesus and not be drived by the comercial affairs. You said by yourself that : So you contradict yourself when you repeat that suggestion and don't concentrate on the "true message". Do you know that some business in Australia promote Christmas in July and called "Christmas in July". They said that since American Christmas and European has snow and youlk tree , then we in Australia too have celebrate the Christmas where our winter in July. Now should we especially midleeast Christian , have to reject our church calendars and what we have received from our ancestors and we have to follow these few families you mentioned celebrating Christmas in March OR we fellow the Australian attempt to move the Christmat to July?

1. My thread topic is "Christmas is Jesus Birthday" and was not "25 December is Jesus Birthday". And I mean that we have to rember that and don't be confused with Santa Clause who is artificial american character used the name and loving gifting of St Nicholas. Also I showed that St Nicholas feast is on the 8 December but comercial people for their benefit pushed it to reach the 25 December. 2. I personally as Copt [ the original people of Egypt] celebrate it on 7th of January as our church using the old calendar. The same for Russian, Serb and most of Orthodoz Churches. As I am Australian now since 18 years , I celebrate it twice as I celebrate it on 25 December too for my kids as their peers Australian do. 3. Whetever the Christmas is on 7th January or 25 December, it will not from these two dates depending on the calanders and calculation of an event happened 2000 years ago. I said that because there are continuation from generation to generation so we have received these informatiopn from our ancestors and the written history. It is not a matter of jump in one day. In our Coptic Church calander there are for every day an event or saint in that day e.g, st Barbara, St Chathrine, St Peter,..... 4. Da Vinci Code book is fiction and not facts. Many books or films using particular events and expand it to be fiction otherwise they be accused with copy and paste. Some hides contradicted facts to confuse people for evil attempt to destroy the origin. It is contious attempt from anti-Christ but as they failed to do their objective for 2000 year will not succed now too.

1. It is first time, I heard that fantasy. This like saying the Egyptian or American day of revolution is in July like the French day of Revolution. 2. What if I told you that the Christmas was in January before applying the Georgian Calendar. We the Coptic Christian in Egypt, Syria , and all Arabic Orthodox Christian with the most Christian in Russia, Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria are celebrating the Christmas on 7th of January according to the Julian Calendar, thirteen days after Western Christmas. It will be on the 8th January in 2100. 3. Only since about 400 AD, Christians have celebrated the birth of Jesus. The concentration was on the Resurrection. All saints feast is on their departure day not on their birthday. 4. I don't know the reasons behind the argument for the Christian feasts date,. I never heard any argument on the Jewish feasts [ Hanukkah., Passover, Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashana and others.] even though they have been celebrated these day even before Christ. The same I never heard any argument on the Islamic , Indian or Chinese feasts. By the way, in case you didn't know, Hebrews people are started celebration of Hanukkah.on the same day of the Christmas. For the first time since 1959, the eight-day celebration of Hanukkah begins Sunday evening, which was the Christmas. 5. Then when you celebrate a feast, you try to put what brings joice and this depends on your culture, civilization, tradition. So don't call it pagan symbols. For examples in Egypt where the christian have been fasting before the Christmas for long period [43 days] and their food are vegetarian [no meeat, no milk, no eggs, no butter,...] then it is normall that they prepare many different kinds of meat . Also they prepare cakes and different types of biscuits to themselves and for neighbors and visitors. 6. In Russia, Finland, Sweden and other Scandinavians in frozen winter there are no flowers or any green plant except that Yolk trees they used it in decoration.in their celebration and it is called it Christmas tree". So don't wonder that this tree are used intensively. And then peoples started to decorate it by light and other things from the 18 century [see : http://www.rumela.com/events/christmas_tree.htm ] 7. But whetever the Christmas is on 25 December or 7th January or other, the point what we have not forget is the "Christmas" is Christ Birthday or Jesus Birthday. The the word "Christmas" is of an ancient Egyptian origin. Where this word is consisting of two parts: Christ & mas; Christ is the messia and mas is an ancient Egyptian word means: to be born or Birth.

Here will find my answer to DogEater008's question tha is why every 400 we add one day: It is because The Gregorian calandar gives an average year length of 365.2425 days. And by adding 1 days for each 4 years, we in fact considered the year of length of 365.25 days. instead of 365.2425 days. with difference about .0075 extra. Then when we don't add the leap in the year dividisable by 100, we take of .01 instead of .0075 day with difference .0025 day which can be corrected by add 1 day every 400 years. Remember that even 365.2425 is different than the exact 365.242375 so all the above has another difference .000125 day which can be corrected every 800 years. This may be the answer to Saint_Michaels question about year 2800.