Joshua

You could check out http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ They use a variety of different themes and the owner Reliable (got him to come over to this site and check it out, liked the options for the site creation but didn't want to post for it ) is a whiz at site creation, graphics, and making sites like this one. Any one of the ones he makes would be fancier then this one and he made one for Christmas with a dove graphic near the top and snow falling on the upper half of the screen. And it's a board site of the same style as this one. The site uses several different themes that can be selected from the profile window by a person. Anyway, that might be more along the lines of what you're thinking about.

Well, I think if you consider the basic personality of people who go to spam game rooms with ads (like yahoo's) or send off emails, they probably don't spend as much time learning anything as just trying to draw attention to something which attracted their shockingly small attention spans.

I have to say Inspired that so many people base their views on Christianity by what they see of the Catholic Church. The problem with the RCC is that it deliberately goes against what the Bible teaches (and I'm more then happy to show you what the Bible teaches on all their major doctrines) and because of this we see things like you mentioned, the Crusades, witch trials, etc... You say religion is a major cause of war in the world. But what if it revolves around certain facts (ones the Catholics most refuse to listen to) that God only is just and can deliver vengeance, that we need to turn the other cheek, love our enemies, give to those that ask, pray for those that despitefully use us, etc... Christ said the 2 great commandments were to love God and love others. In Romans 13:10 it says love is the fulfilling of the Law because it does no harm to others. Christianity is built around this principle of loving others and doing no harm to anyone, it is why Paul and Stephen and Christ and so many others died not only without resisting their enemies but even forgiving them and praying for them as they died, and praising God for their entrance into the eternal kingdom. Hard to find a different picture then that of the Catholic Church who says it's alright to kill whoever opposes them and that authority lies with their church rather then with God as the Bible says. So much focus has been on the crimes of the Catholics that people never realized the true Christians were the ones being persecuted by the Catholic Church through the centuries, think the Anabaptists and related groups.

I think a big part of it is focus on ourselves rather then others. People worry about what they're owed rather then their responsibilities. My pastor spoke recently on how comparison is the enemy of contentment. We look at what others have and want it, and ultimately we're focusing so much on ourselves and what's right for us we no longer can see things from the views of others. We're becoming so utterly egocentric that we can't feel the pain of others. The world says now to "do what's right for you" or "do what makes you feel good" and we're so focused on our own pleasures and "fun" that we refuse to look at any higher authority. The reason horrific crimes are becoming so commonplace is that even as the world tries to say there is no God it unconsciously sends the message that there is no ultimate law and something is wrong only if it's wrong for us. The world says we should cheat and steal and do whatever it takes to reach the top with the people the world idolizes. And the only rule it says is to not get caught. Once people had an easier time focusing on other people, now they focus only on the belongings the world sells to them and tries so hard to make them covet.

They've talked about it before. Football wouldn't work too well because of the use of formations and participation, and not moving over the sides before the snap. Plus you'd probably get 10 offsides and 15 roughing penalties a play They were saying basketball and hockey might do well as rpg's though.

So I guess the real question with that is whether or not sound needs to be heard to be real. Something can exist without being perceived or experienced, if no one existed to perceive or experience a given thing it would still exist. I never considered that much of a paradox. Just like with the chicken and the egg one. An egg can come only from a full grown chicken so the chicken must first be created to produce the egg. Of course I believe in a creator which first created the chicken, as He created people and the earth mature, so I would expect he created all creatures mature. He may have created the universe mature as well with the appearance of age, since it seems that's what he did with Adam. Some seeming paradoxes rely on certain things we consider rules or laws however of the universe which may exist only because we know only what we've experienced, and those rules or laws may not be absolute. Scientists acknowledge there's only a handful of true laws or whatever that we can really know for certain where we've seen all possibilities that exist for an experiment, and those laws are only the most basic things as well. We really rely only upon what we've experienced, either personally or as a race for the most part, in about 99.999999999% at least of everything else we're really just taking a step of faith in believing or knowing, whether we like to admit it or not. In other words, experience may be what some go by but... Just because we've observed the sun to "rise" sooner or later does not mean it always will. Just because we've always observed light to move at a certain speed does not always mean it always does. In fact they are applying a new set of math principles and suspect light in space travels differently then we've always thought and challenges what we always thought about light in connection with Einstein's Theory of Relativity. It involves less light refraction and a steadier "beam" so to speak of light so that it travels faster. Here's an article from a government's energy citations database from the Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies, if you're interested. http://www.osti.gov/scitech/ This offers some additional info that isn't too hard to understand at least about how it works: http://www.rain.org/~karpeles/einsteindis.html

Heh heh heh... I recently found a way to provide myself a deep source of entertainment in rooms where spammers keep typing ads for all to see. I'll mimic their ads, for example they'll say something like "is health and yada yada yada what you crave? Then https://xyz.xyz/ is the place for you" and I'll say something like "is truth and eternal life what you crave? Then https://www.bible.com/ is the place for you." Here's my personal favorite post "Are You A Board Spammer? Sick Of Being Made Fun Of For Bad Grammar? http://www.learn-english-grammar.com/; That's a real site too btw Several board spammers yesterday left the room after I kept posting that, so that it got so quiet there was one person saying "<<<echo>>>"

I think the reason we're talking about problems with the Catholic Church at all is precisely because of all the "updating" it has done. Like the Pharisees who created all the extra books on interpretations of the Old Testament and dreams and what not, the Catholics have tried to add as much as they can to make it more conveniently understood and comprehensible to them. And to go with what they want. The Bible has a specific curse for those who do this. And it even foretells of those who will do it, and where their doctrines come from: 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. Sound like any certain institution we know of? The Bible is not about "surviving," God is able to preserve it, many nations have tried to destroy it now by burning every one in sight, banning them, and like the aforementioned institutions, by trying to superimpose their words on the Bible, and add to it, taking out of it only what they want. Or by claiming it's all open to interpretation. But the Bible as I have it heard said, is God's Word to us. It tells us what is right, what is wrong, how to get right, and how to stay right. It's God's textbook for our lives, and how to get in a right relationship with Him. He doesn't need to worry about whether we like it or not so it will be around, in fact, He has said that even though Heaven and earth will pass away, His words will not pass away.

One big difference between Christianity and all other religions: Nothing you can do will get you to Heaven, it's not what you can do that gets you there, it's what Jesus Christ has already done that saves your soul, you simply accept the freely-given gift by trusting solely in Him to save you. If anything/anyone else teaches otherwise they've neglected the whole point and basis for Christianity and the way to salvation. Going to church or not wearing velcro ( ) or any x, y, or z things do not in themselves send you to Hell. Without Christ's payment for our sins we do not get in, period, whether we're a Mary, Job, Muhammed, Ghandi, Mother Theresa etc... I said that precisely because my Lord has told me to be a witness to His truth, if you don't want to hear it or accept it, alright, that's your choice. God gave us all free will, all I'm doing is presenting what I know as truth and welcoming you to share what you know, let's talk about it reasonably and see where truth lies. Right after I got saved in a summer camp I didn't consider myself any one denomination, didn't even know what a denomination was If people asked me I just said Christian the first several times, as far as I was concerned I followed Christ alone, didn't fully understand the idea of denominations for a while. Someone said earlier that someone might think they're a "bad kid" for not being Christian. Christianity is interesting in that it says we're all bad, none of us deserve as much to live, the whole world is guilty before God. You, me, everybody else, we can't kill others or avenge ourselves justly since we're all guilty of death. Our only hope lies in mercy, which is why Christ came. And by all means, let's talk about this, tell me why you disagree with the Bible or God or Christianity or whatever, too many people seem to get this idea for some reason that I'm going to attack them if they do and go on the defensive. I simply want to talk with you reasonably about what you believe, but unfortunately not many people I have met are willing to do so.

On the contrary, Paul, Stephen, the Anabaptists, they lived what the Bible taught and we're killed without resisting. If someone calls themself Christian and fought back then they acted against the Bible, simple as that. What then would make you think they are Christian? And I'm not going to call you anything, we all have been give the chance to choose God or not and it's your eternity that hangs in the balance. Refusing Him is in your power, but at least I won't be accountable to my Master for not having told you. You started this off with your religion which attacks the Bible, then I presented what the Bible says, which you would call my religion. If you are feeling attacked it is only because your own conscience is beginning to convict you. That can happen when Jesus Christ comes into a situation. I'm not trying to "force" anything on you, just trying to talk reasonably and present to you what I know to be truth. If you don't want to hear it, well, then by all means, don't read this topic Perhaps the greatest danger lies not in being wrong but in being so certain you're right that you refuse to listen to anything else. You can be persuaded of something yet still hear someone out, hear what they're saying. The Bible speaks of those who close their eyes and their ears so that they cannot understand with their heart and be healed. I believe there is a point which you can reach where no amount of evidence in this life will ever persuade you of anything, you can just explain it away.

Yep, the Catholic Church has been updating itself ever since it was created with whatever forms of paganism were lying around The Catholic Church tends to "adapt" something once it can't out-debate it or it keeps getting proven wrong on the subject. Until recently they taught works get you to Heaven instead of faith but after getting shown over and over again how anti-Biblical it is they finally reversed their views on it. Many of their members are still confused on the issue though. Darwin wondered why an innumerable amount of needed transitional forms were missing, but was hopeful that they would show up with time. However, evidence after all this time is still lacking and the massive amount of "transitional forms" is utterly lacking. Darwin's had his theory shot full of holes time and again and all the missing links needed have either been fakes, mistakes, or have mysteriously disappeared. And if the Catholic Church didn't exist there would probably be even more anabaptists then there are now

Hmm... probably was a little harsh with that last comment, sorry I didn't like being called a spammer which I've spent so much effort on making good posts and was just trying to share my poems with others knowing they wouldn't count as posts. Sorry, was tired and careless there, I apologize

I suppose if fitness is required for it there's an argument for it being called a sport at least... How chess can be an Olympic "sport" is beyond me though. With golf or pool I think of them more as games since the level of fitness required is such that 80 year old guys can play them. You can be in a wheelchair sitting down and play pool. You can be driven around in a golf cart between holes but be so fat you can't play any of the main sports like basketball, baseball, etc... My questions with ballet and figure skating and even diving rely on the level of competition since it depends on ratings by others. You heard of all the controversy over bad judging by the judges in the Olympics over a certain event last year I'm sure. And one person in particular being called to give up their medals because of it. Races you can determine by who crosses the line. Sports are determined by points or goals or runs. But I tend to question things with a very low level of fitness required or where judging determines a winner.

And the verse is used of the Catholic Church itself, which not only will not enter in to the kingdom but refuses entrance to others as well, and making them two times the children of Hell as those existing. I talked to a Catholic in a group at my college a while back and was surprised to learn that they actually think the Pharisees taught rightly according to their doctrine because of this verse:Matthew 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.But what of this verse?Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Alright, here's your more recent news, although I wanted to see what you thought of the other first. It's not really an update on the situation, just a matter of it worsening, but... http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ Since you wish to get into the translations let's see what the original Greek texts use, the word in Luke 12:45 is doulos, the Strong's Greek Dictionary which is widely considered the best has the definition: Since this is the word Paul also used of himself as well as the other apostles the parable can mean any Christian in the sense of a slave to Jesus Christ. Not necessarily what we think of with the term in bondage to another human being, but since it is a parable of a servant and Master is it not clear it speaks of Christ and His servants and the coming His coming in the final day? I do not hate Catholics themselves but rather have love and sympathy for them as for any of the lost, I am in contact with several right now, and one of the men in the men's group at my Church was once a Catholic before he got saved. I do however despise the institution that so deceives and captures the souls of those who enter in, and serves to capture more souls for Hell. Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Yeah, is from Hovind. I've liked what I've seen from him before, and he definitely does think about what he says. He wants to talk things out with you and use reason which is a good thing. C.S. Lewis does write some really good stuff on the subject, the other author I find really good is Josh McDowell, "More Then A Carpenter" is a short read that I've found excellent on questions about the Bible's authenticity.I do tend to talk to people who are willing to listen to reason but I'm getting better and better at just walking away from areas where people don't come with "all readiness of mind" as it says in Acts 17:11. As long as they're willing to listen and to think about something there's hope but if not... I don't think there's anyone who there's less hope for then someone who thinks they're right and refuses to listen to anything otherwise, and assassinates not just the ideas but the charachter of the people who they disagree with. Still, all things are possible for God.

What you are doing is claiming things about the Bible I know to be untrue. That is why I am replying to you. Let's keep things simple shall we? Religion is not about renewing your life, it is about FINDING life. If you do not have Jesus Christ you are already dead and you need to find life, you are bound for Hell and under the wrath of God for your sins. Christianity is about getting in a right relationship with God through Jesus Christ's payment on the cross. Plain and simple. Going to church is not simply learning, you are right, one can learn at home, there are all the resources available from tv, tapes, etc... to learn about God if you can find the right ones. What you cannot do at home as a Christian is worship God with other believers, give as an act of worship, not only with tithes but with your time and efforts for His kingdom and as a "light to the world", and also fellowship with other believers to grow spiritually. Furthermore, God has said to set aside the day as a time to focus on Him specifically, a day of rest without work, and if you follow that then what else do you plan to do on that day? Saying you are a Christian does not make you one any more then going in a garage makes you a car, as Ravi Zecharias likes to say. Many will come to Christ in the last day saying Lord, Lord, and giving examples of what they've done for Him only to be told He never knew them. As James says, even the devils believe in one God, and tremble, that kind of faith is dead without works. And by works we can never be justified. If you are hoping to get to Heaven by "being a good person" you will never find eternal life.

So then doing push ups by yourself could be a sport? Is ballet a sport too then?

If I was a spammer do you think I'd make such ridiculously long posts that look like short novels in all the sections that count then post 5 poems in a section that doesn't count? Try thinking before you talk, it helps

I know, I saw the big "No Post Count" on there... what's your point?

Taking that at face value obviously Jesus Christ is an exception but I'd have to think about that, since some get saved at a young age and while still sinners may not have claimed otherwise either... Just not sure about that statement.

You seem to want to notice only the preaching and exhorting Paul speaks of here, but he speaks also of rebuking and reproving. There's a difference between pointing the finger at "the unfruitful works of darkness" and pointing the finger at people specifically for their sins when we are all ourselves sinners. 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

As for the Christians, the Bible says not to return railing for railing or use violence, it also spends much time explaining precisely how evil the Pharisees and their modern-day counterpart, the Catholic Church, are. Also, the word used in Luke 12:45-48 is "servant" meaning simply one of a household who serves, an employee for example, and not necessarily a slave. Also, with Deuteronomy and the Old Testament you became a slave or indentured servant by agreeing to it, not because you were forced into it if I remember correctly. You served for 6 years as payment for a debt or whatever and then had to be let free unless you chose otherwise the 7th year. See Exodus chapter 21. Stealing someone to be a slave was a criminal offense worthy of death, Exodus 21:16. In other words, you couldn't be made a slave without your permission. Also, Paul used the word servants and not slaves, which would seem to apply to the modern day employee/employer relationships. You say Paul didn't speak about slavery being immoral, but what of this? Philemon 1:15 For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever; 16 Not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved, specially to me, but how much more unto thee, both in the flesh, and in the Lord? Frankly, Paul spoke of being a servant as being free of the Lord and if we are not slaves to anyone else then we are servants to Jesus Christ. We are called to all serve as serving Christ and not men. 1 Corinthians 7:20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called. 21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. 22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. 23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. Many, many times Paul uses the word servant to describe the Christian, we are called to be servants, to serve others above ourselves as though serving Christ and to serve Christ above all. Paul speaks of himself as a servant (Romans 1:1, Galatians 1:10, Titus 1:1), James speaks of himself as one (James 1:1), Peter speaks of himself as one (2 Peter 1:1), Jude speaks of himself as one (Jude 1:1), and John speaks of himself as one (Revelation 1:1). The Bible says all sin is worthy of death, the person who seems to live uprightly and morally but without Christ is as Hell-bound as the homosexuals. However, the Christian who participates in such things should know that they sin against their own body the temple of the Holy Ghost as do all adulterers and if they persist in it God will destroy them (take them out of this life then let them dirty up what He's cleansed). I say that of the anabaptists because as Christ said by their fruits you will know them. The anabaptists lived in love, did not return evil for evil, dwelt more like the early church in communal living then perhaps any other group in history, was known for their good deeds and kindness towards others... The Catholic Church on the other hand is known for their persecution of such groups. Now you tell me which is bringing forth good fruit and which is bringing forth bad? It says you will KNOW them by their fruits. It is not hypocrisy to know. Love does not put on blinders, Christ healed the sick, He also was quick to rebuke the Pharisees. Read Ephesians 5. We are called both to "walk in love" and to "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but rather reprove them." Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. There is a difference between putting people down for their sins and proclaiming that which departs from the Gospel, like those who Paul pointed out say the Resurrection is past or even the well-known "doctrines of demons" Paul spoke of which would be preached in the last times which involve others "forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats" as they are "speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron." Furthermore, in verse 6 he goes on to say that others should be put in remembrance of these things. 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

Server, the Bible did say for servants not to escape from their masters, it also said for us to turn the other cheek and not fight back in any event. It is never right to do evil, and we should live peaceably with all men as much as is in us. Paul, Stephen, Jesus Christ, when dying did not resist their attackers and even forgave them as they perished. Try reading the whole book of Philemon, it's specifically about Paul asking a slave holder to not only release his slave but to treat him as a Christian brother. Paul reminds the owner of how we all have one master and whatever debt the slave owes the master Paul himself will pay out of his own pocket, and speaks of how the master knows Paul is good for it, essentially. Later on we see both master and now-freed slave working side by side with Paul on his missionary journeys to advance the kingdom of Christ. Frequently in the New Testament it is spoken that there is neither male or female, slave or owner, we are all one in Christ Jesus. He does not devalue us because of our appearance or circumstances. As I said, this is not something unrivaled by the Catholic Church. You say of the few, but what of the Crusades, the Inquisition, conquistadors, Hitler, witch trials, and the persecution of true Christians like the Anabaptists? One guess on which institution not only was responsible but still condones them. In Revelation Paul speaks of certain churches as having certain things true of them, as the true Church of Christ, all believers in Him is one body, so other institutions can be one body as well. The Babylon spoken of in Revelation is believed to be a false church even as the woman in revelation is clearly the true Church and universal body of believers. I never said all catholics aren't Christians, I have met some born-again Christians who call themselves catholics but since they don't hold the views of the Catholic Church I don't consider them Catholics. I do not believe someone can get saved holding the views the Catholic Church holds since it means placing your trust elsewhere then Jesus Christ alone which is the whole key to salvation.

Heh...sorry anyways. No, I'm not atheist. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a god or gods. That basically means that you are not Christian (or any of it's sects), Jewish, a...greek god believer(what's it called?) or any of that stuff. I never said that I didn't believe in <i>a</i> god, I just 'meant' I don't believe in the Christian God. Capice? I wasn't talking about women in that post though. I may have mentioned it and gotten confused, but I was talking about humans in general. You may not realize it, but the women that you know want respect...I wasn't necessarily talking about superiority, having power over you? No no, don't mistake me. Respect comes in different forms. It's quite a flexible word if you ask me anyways. There is no such thing as equality, trust me. If everyone/thing was equal...well, I'm sure you can just imagine it. Nothing wrong with it, but never possible. jzyehoshua, I would argue more with you on your Christianity, but this topic isn't about that. Besides, if it's because of "people like me" who 'rebel' against organized religions, then you can blame your popes from the past. Maybe your God should have been a bit brighter, allowing who to teach their 'interpretations' of 'God's' words, rather than letting anyone do it. It's not my fault that the Bible's words have become so twisted in the centuries late. And I wasn't serious about that missionaries bit. I know they're trying to spread their religion to 'gather people to the good side' or whatever, but maybe the books and speaches that are put out have laid that impression on me, and because I cannot go back in time to actually see what happened.... 155071[/snapback] MY popes? That's a good one I thought we were talking about Christianity, not Catholocism? Also, it's often the people who most genuinely question the Bible who end up becoming its greatest supporters. Josh McDowell set out to prove the Bible wrong, he was on fire to prove once and for all the errors in it. Problem was, the more he saw the more he became convinced himself And he trusted in Christ alone, becoming born again. The apostle Paul himself was first the greatest persecutor of the Church (the universal body of believers which is what the Bible calls the Church, just so there's no confusion) but when He had to come face to face with the One He was persecuting and the truths of the Gospel He threw away all he'd once thought of value that He might gain Christ. C.S. Lewis was not just a fiction writer but a scholar, he set out to disprove the Bible only to find out it was utter truth, and has written some brilliant books after becoming born again on faith and proofs of the Bible. On the site Powertochange.com there are many testimonies, including that of a Jew whose daughter got saved. She finally persuaded him to read the New Testament, and him and his wife both set out to see what it had to say. Expecting to find doctrines of great hatred against the Jews like he'd heard, he was shocked and amazed to see evidence of a Messiah who frequently spoke of his love for the Jews and presented time and again the evidence from the Old Testament Scriptures for them to believe in. He too has trusted in Christ as his Lord and Saviour, and now witnesses to his fellow Jews. The mission of true born-again missionaries is not to "bring people to the good side" but to help them find forgiveness of sins so they can escape the wrath to come upon them for their sins. Christ didn't come to make us good people, He came to save us from the impending judgement of eternal death that will come upon us all.