HoRuS

Nice text I think they are both real, allthough life is shorter then 'death'. Death is only a human word for passing on to the next realm, in wich we live on.Is not for nothing all old races believed in life after death.Maybe the life we live on Earth is one big dream, who knows

First of all, sincere condoleances to you and your family with the loss of your grandfather.There is way more to life then just birth, life and death and I don't think it's only for evolution and reproduction (wich are nice extra's though). In my opinion life can be considered as a school and every life we live are like different 'courses' in wich we experience and learn from situations.I think a soul will reincarnate many, many, many times so it experiences and adds/shares this obtained wisdom with the Creative Intelligence, wich many people refer to as God, since every soul is a 'spark' of a massive 'flame'.For what it's worth, I think your grandfather watches over you and your family and is proud that you work so hard to graduate

I can understand why you disliked the way the man treated you, but it ain't fair to put all muslims on that side. There are a lot of muslims who don't like the 'western' or 'jewish' people, but thats an effect wich is coused by our beloved rulers, who use, or better said, abuse religion for their own good. Every tree on this earth has bad apples, but that doesn't mean every apple is bad.

Hmmm there's two sides to the medaille.A computer (the internet) can be used as information-storage and train your brains to process lots of 'data',but it's also proven that when one sits too much spending time at a pc or internet, their brainsfrequencies can change wich can lead to less intelligence, numbness and bad social abilities.

Hmmm I believe cursing is a bad way to vent aggression, but it's better then smashing someone to pieces.I noticed that lots of people mention the 'f' word, but lemme tell you this: Here in Holland people have worse things they curse with, like cancer, typhus and all those terrible deceases. Another curse I don't like is God damn. Heh in a way they say "God, please damn me". I found this because in Dutch it's godverdomme (god=god verdom=damn me=me) Really weird though, because they curse at someone or something else and it backfires on them.If I had to choose between cursing with the 'f' word or those mentioned above...

I am so sorry that you had to go through that it must have been awful. In no way am I offended by this topic. I do not see how some leaders get elected or get to power some other way can do things like this. Here in the United States you swear to uphold the values of your country when you become president. I feel that all leaders should uphold the values of their country. In no way was this war you are talking about helping your country. I think that if you are not doing a good job and people are going against you it should make you think. Instead of creating a massive war you should think about what you have done wrong. Again, I am sorry this happened to you and all of your country. I hope your current days are much better.

Uhm... no offense, but you say presidents need to swear to uphold the values of the country, Bush is just as Milosevic, also slaying hundredthousands of people in his 'war against terorism', he killed more peeps then all those 'evil' countries did together

But sorry, am straying off topic, Milosevic was a dictator wich deserved execution by the people he hurt, not being brought here, in The Hague (yeah ima Dutchie). The most sinister part of this is that when he hurt the Serbian people, he was being brought to court... When he wanted to bring out other European politician's names who contributed and played the game, he suddenly died, probably killed by his 'collegues'. I really get mad by the way politicians are and how they treat their own people, we vote and they kill us.

Anyways, I hope the actions of those twats like Milosevic, Bush and Hitler will be remembered so the leaders of the next generations will have more respect for those who put them up on their places.

I told ya, I have no religion... religion is only a way to use faith to control people.

And as I said, I have no touchable proof of my faith, but I don't need proof, I just know inside... Allthough it's less then 1% of what I know, the quote beneath will explain some of my way of thinking:

 

Abraham the Israelite father of mankind, and Hiram of the Freemasons, are one and the same, and both are based upon serpent worshippers with Indian Naga or serpent deity backgrounds. A grand statement, but one that I am not alone in making.

 

Flavious Josephus said in his History of the Jews:

 

?These Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calani.?

 

Megasthenes, sent to India by Seleucus Nicator, also said that the Jews were called ?Kalani? and that they were an Indian tribe.

 

 

Clearchus of Soli said: ?The Jews descend from the philosophers of India. The philosophers are called in India Calanians and in Syria Jews. The name of their capital is very difficult to pronounce. It is called Jerusalem.?

 

If Abraham as the father of the Jewish race is therefore a legendary figure of India, then who is he? And did he exist at all? It?s time to upset traditionalists.

 

The obvious person for an Indian Abraham is Brahma (A-Brahma) who just happens to have a consort and sister named Saraisvati [1]? which is amazingly similar to the name of the Biblical Abraham?s wife - Sarai. Indeed Abraham is said to have learned his trade in Ur (the ?Ur of the Chaldees? in the Bible ? said to be in ancient Sumer), which is very close to the Persian border ? being en-route to India.

 

It is also a fact that the name of Brahma spread throughout this entire area ? so much so, that the Persians even adopted him as one of their deities. So, the very area where Abraham is said to have learned his priestly trade is the very area that the Indian Brahma was being spread and worshipped. What more can we find within this area of the Chaldees?

 

The Chaldeans were called Kaul-Deva, and they were a priestly caste living in among other places, Afghanistan, Kashmir and Pakistan. (Kaul-Deva meaning the Shining Calani, hence these were enlightened Shining Ones, a group going back to ancient Sumeria and outlined in my book The Shining Ones).

 

So Abraham/Brahma learned his trade among the Chaldees, who were a priestly caste related to the Indian sub-continent and were the Shining priesthood or enlightened souls. In this respect then Abraham was simply a title given to the high priest or Lord of the sect of Brahma. But if, like in ancient Egypt, he needed to duplicate the life of the gods, then he too would have needed a wife/sister. The fact that Saraisvati was both Brahma?s consort and sister, also relates to the Biblical account of Abraham.

 

?But indeed she is truly my sister. She is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.? (Genesis 20:12.)

 

This same pattern of hidden Gnosis would later become part of the Mary/Jesus myth. The complex twists and turns that modern writers such as Dan Brown in the Da Vinci Code seem to have to create to explain the seemingly peculiar nature of Jesus? relationship with Mary the Mother and Mary Magdalene are really quite remarkable. In fact it is simple.

 

Like Sarai is Saraisvati, she is also Isis, the greatest of Egyptian goddesses. Mary too is a duplicate of Isis. You see Isis was the consort of Osiris, hence the wife part. She was therefore the mother of Horus the Saviour - hence the mother of god. But Horus was Osiris reincarnated and so Isis was also his sister. Mary the Mother, Mary Magdalene the lover/consort and Mary of Bethany the sister are really and truly the hidden aspects of a much older Gnostic tradition that has no literal element at all! The three Mary?s are in reality three aspects of the one feminine principle - the feminine trinity.

 

Of course, we could find ourselves in trouble here, as nowhere does it state that Mary of Bethany was the sister of Jesus. However, its does state that Mary of Bethany was the sister of Lazarus, whom Jesus raised from the dead, or more pertinently was Jesus, raised from the dead.

 

You see, in Egyptian mythology it was the role of the son of God and saviour, Horus, to raise his father, Osiris, from the dead and in a sense resurrect himself, as Horus was Osiris resurrected.

 

However, Lazarus and Osiris are distinctly different names and so cannot be related. How wrong this is, although there is still much debate on the exact etymology, many believe that there is a proven link. How?

 

The ancient Egyptian designation for Osiris was Asar or Azar. Now, when the Egyptians spoke of their Gods they indicated them with ?the? and so we would have had ?the Azar.? This term ?the? also meant Lord or God, like the Greek word for God The-os or Theos. One of the Hebrew terms for Lord was El and was applied to their many deities, such as El-Shaddai or El-hoim. So when the Hebraic writers included Osiris in their myths they put him in as El-Azar ? The Lord Osiris. This in the later Latin translation was changed to El-Azar-us. This use of the ?us? was the way that masculine names ended under the Roman language. In fact, in Arabic Lazarus is still spelt El-Azir, hence missing the ?us?. So we now have El-Azar-us, which reduced further into Lazarus. In this way the Egyptian, or should we say much older mythos, became the literal truth of the Biblical record.

 

Horus therefore raised ?El-Azar-us? or ?El-Osiris? from the dead, just as Christ was to raise ?Lazarus.? This story in itself is an allegory of the sun god Osiris being reborn but never the less gives us the remarkable fact that Mary of Bethany, as the sister of Lazarus, was in literary and esoteric reality, the sister of Jesus.

 

And so, as we find that Jesus and Mary were in reality based upon a much older Egyptian mythology, which itself stretches back even further in time to ancient Sumeria, we also find that the story of Abraham and Sarai are no different. In the Koran (6:75) we find that Abraham?s father was called Azar (Osiris), and so Abraham was Horus, just as Jesus was Horus. Lo and behold, we also discover (Luke 16: 22-25) that Lazarus himself rested in the bosom of Abraham, just as Osiris as the crippled god, rested in his resurrecting son?s arms.

 

And it was this Abraham, this Brahma or Osiris, that is said to have spawned the very Children of Israel. Let?s take a look at Abraham?s sons and see if we can reveal the hidden serpent lineage or serpent secrets that we found elsewhere in The Serpent Grail.

 

Abraham?s son Ishmael, by Hagar, his maidservant, also had children who lived in India, or Havilah (land of serpents), as it is in Genesis. Both famous sons of Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac have names that revert back to the worship of that serpent Hindu deity Siva. [2]

 

Ishmael is Ish-Maal in Hebrew, and in Sanskrit, Ish-Mahal means ?Great Siva.? Isaac is Ishaak in Hebrew, and Ishakhu in Sanskrit ? which means ?Friend of Siva.? Most startling of all is the very name of Abraham himself, which could mean that Abraham was nothing other than a Naga King ? Ab Ram ? actually means ?exalted snake.?

 

Hiram, the famous Freemasonic and Biblical builder of Temples was Ahi-Ram and it is time to take a look at this mythical character.

 

Hiram and the Temple

 

Hiram of Tyre, the son of a Jewish mother and a Phoenician father is credited with the decoration of the fabled Temple of Solomon. He was said to have been the ?son of a widow of the tribe of Naphtali . . . He cast two bronze pillars? 1 Kings 7:13-15.

 

The standard of the Tribe of Naphtali, according to Jewish tradition is a serpent or basilisk and this could have come from the Jewish sojourn into Egypt, as Jewish tradition states that Naphtali was the brother of Joseph chosen to represent the family to Pharaoh. Hiram is also said to be a son of the Tribe of Dan (Chronicles 11) and even the tribe of Dan had an emblem, which was the serpent and the horse. Barbara Walker in The Woman?s Encyclopaedia of Myths and Secrets points out:

 

?Writers of the Old Testament disliked the Danites, whom they called serpents (Genesis 49:17). Nevertheless, they adopted Dani-El or Daniel, a Phoenician god of divination, and transformed him into a Hebrew prophet. His magic powers were like those of the Danites emanating from the Goddess Dana and her sacred serpents?. Daniel was not a personal name but a title, like the Celtic one.?

 

Here we have a distinct conclusion, that Daniel of the Bible is related to the very same Danu or Dana goddess of Celtic Europe and that this goddess is conclusively related to serpents ? in this case the serpens astrological sign as worshipped by the Danites. We also have confirmation that the Jewish people collected their belief system from those around them. Thus far, as we have gathered, they have melded the beliefs of India, Egypt and now Phoenician into their own growing system.

 

According to the book of Chronicles, this son of Dan, Hiram, was a cunning man, endued with understanding and skilful in the work of gold, silver, brass, stone and timber. He was also credited with certain tools, which could pierce stone. According to the book of Kings the Temple was prepared in stone before it was brought to the site ? being something like a ready-made or prefabricated building. It was said that neither hammer nor axe, nor any tool of iron was used in the building. So how was it built? At least, symbolically?

 

Well, in Exodus, Moses is told to build an altar to the Lord without tools, lest he should pollute it, and it seems the same symbolism was utilized here in the building of the Temple. According to Rabbinical teaching the prefabrication was performed by the Shamir, a giant worm or serpent that could cut stones. Not dissimilar to Norse and Celtic beliefs where Valhalla and Camelot were built with the fire of the dragon. According to the Islamic accounts of Rashi and Maimonides, the Shamir was a living creature. This is hardly likely, unless we understand this creature to be ourselves. Indeed what is more likely is that the idea of the wisdom of the ?worm? (which evolved from the word orm for serpent anyway) or snake, Shamir, was used in the construction of the symbolic Temple of man - a Gnostic belief. [3]

 

It was fabled that serpent-linked Naga?s escaped their country and took this deep and seemingly, architectural, wisdom abroad. This linking of the esoteric and underlying principles of self-illumination manifested here in architectural symbolism eventually gave rise to modern Freemasonry.

 

The ?architect gods? such as Thoth or Hermes are linked strongly with the serpent wisdom as we discovered in The Serpent Grail. Other references also link the Shamir to the snake, such as the Testament of Solomon, which calls it a ?green stone,? like the Emerald Tablet [4], which obviously provides further evidence for the Shamir to have been serpent wisdom.

 

Returning to Hiram we find that the name Hir-Am actually means ?exalted head of the people:? (Hir = Head, exalted, Am = people) ? and is closely related to Abraham (Ab Hir Am).

 

However, it also has another and more telling meaning.

 

Ahi-Ram actually means ?exalted snake.? So, in either meaning Hiram was the ?exalted head? or ?snake,? both meanings being paramount to the discovery of the thread of the snake cult and religious underlying beliefs - the mixture of the opposites within one?s own head as shown in The Serpent Grail.

 

Hiram was also believed by some (according to David Wood in his book, Genisis) to be descended from Cain via Tubal-Cain who was said to be the only survivor of the ?superior race? after the flood.

 

The race is supposed to be called Elohim (people of the ?fiery snake?) or the ?Shining Ones,? also known as the ?serpent people.? This tale is derived from a text known as E or Elohim from around 750 BC and also gives rise to the stories of the Dionysiac Architects - themselves also linked with the Freemasons.

 

No wonder therefore that the pillars of Hiram should be related closely to the worship of the snake. Rosslyn and especially one of its mock Temple pillars, as we are now so acutely aware, is entwined with the symbolism of snakes ? not just as a direct relation to the Norse myths of Yggdrassil, with its gnawing serpent ? but ultimately as symbols of the religious power of the Gnostic serpent.

 

On the Secret Scroll discovered by Andrew Sinclair one of the most important images is the sight of a large, coiled, Serpent beneath the Temple steps, with a crown, a pick and a shovel, as if pointing towards the excavation of the Temple itself.

 

There is a legend which may back up Andrew Sinclair?s findings and which he does not mention.

 

This oriental legend tells how the Queen of Sheba was attracted to Hiram and that King Solomon became jealous ? so jealous in fact, that he plotted the death of Hiram. Molten metal used in the casting of a ?brazen sea? was going to be used to kill Hiram, but he was saved by the ?spirit? of Tubal-Cain ? his ancestor ? who is linked with serpent worship - he was therefore saved by the serpent from death. Hiram threw his ?jewel? down a deep well, but was then killed by Solomon?s assassins by a blow to the head. It was said that three masters later found the body and venerated it. The jewel was found and placed on a triangular altar, which Solomon then had erected in a secret vault beneath the Temple. (Josephus, Antiquities V111, 3:4) What was the jewel of this builder, which caused so much veneration? Whatever it was, later crusader knights ? under the guise of Knights Templars ? were supposedly to dig furiously beneath the Temple to discover. Of course the Templars are believed to have dug for other items, they and others, such as St. Bernard, thought were located there ? like the Ark of the Covenant. It may be of course that even this is symbolic and Gnostic language - the eternal search for our own divinity.

 

Following these dubious excavations both the Templars and the Cistercians under St. Bernard grew in immense wealth. Great building works were carried out across Europe ? all hiding secret symbolism of the snake, and all using the architectural skills discovered whilst on their travels in the Middle East. Greatest of all however is the symbolism that was brought back with them and which invaded European culture like a contagious virus, seeping into and onto our buildings and works of art and keeping alive an ancient tradition for us to one day rediscover.

 

The hollow and non-literal Brazen Pillars of Hiram became the twin pillars of the later Masons ? who themselves, like Moses as the emergent serpent, emerged from the Templars. These pillars were said to be hollow and to contain secret manuscripts ? which reminds us of the supposed discovery of the manuscripts from Rennes Le Ch?teau, also thought to have been found inside a pillar. In truth they do hold a secret, but not one that can be held in the hand.

 

Now it is time to take a look at another exterior source on the modern Freemasons to see if there are any parallel influences at play - the Dionysiac Architects we have just mentioned.

 

These are said by Masonic historians to be the prime originators of their guilds. A secretive group or secret society with doctrines said by Manly P. Hall (in Masonic, Hermetic, Quabbalistic & Rosicrucian Symbolical Philosophy) to be similar to the Freemasons. They are thought to have been great builders, reminiscent of the idea of the great architectural Naga?s who escaped India.

 

It was supposedly this secret society, under Hiram Abiff, who built the Temple of Solomon and erected the great brass pillars now seen as Boaz and Joachim in Masonry. They were also known as the Roman Collegia and were said to have wandered around like the Medieval Masons, building such fantastic places as the Temple of Diana at Ephesus (John Weisse, The Obelisk and Freemasonry.)

 

Weisse also points out that the Collegia influenced the Islamic building efforts, which were later to become a turning point in Western European architecture after the crusades and possibly via the Collegia?s influence over the Templars amongst others.

 

These Collegia were also thought to have been known before the Romans in Greece and were said to have worshipped the serpentine Bacchus. Considering the Masonic fascination with the Druids, there is little wonder that the infamous historian and archaeologist William Stukely believed them to have been the builders of Stonehenge and other ancient monuments. Many Masonic writers love to associate themselves with the Druids and we find that they ?had a high veneration for the Serpent. Their great god Hu, was typified by that reptile.? George Oliver, Signs and Symbols (Macoy Publishing New York.)

 

If it is true that the Dionysiac Architects and the Bacchus/Dionysius-worshipping Greek and Roman Collegia, were among the originators of the Freemasons, then it is highly likely that they were linked also with the serpent-worshipping Druids who were also known as Adders or Snakes. They were all in fact a later showing of the worldwide serpent cult ? the same as those in India, Egypt and elsewhere, who all had fantastic building skills and held secrets of the true and hidden Gnostic traditions. Today we can still see a remnant of this great architectural, serpent-worshipping and secretive cult in the Masons. As George Oliver points out ?The Serpent is universally esteemed a legitimate symbol of Freemasonry? and now we see its history is world-wide and some would say justifiably kept alive within the initiated Freemasons.

 

Philip Gardiner is the author of The Serpent Grail, Gnosis: The Secret of Solomon?s Temple Revealed and The Shining Ones. He can be contact via his website at http://www.philipgardiner.net/

 

Notes:

 

1 Brahma is the subtle life-force or the spirit itself and Saraisvati was the River of Life. See The Wonder that was India by A. L. Basham, Fontana Ancient History, 1967.

 

2 Mahadeva, one of Siva?s names, is often represented with a snake entwined around his neck, arms and hair. His consort, Parvati, is likewise represented. Bhairava, the Avatar of Siva, sits upon the coils of a serpent, whose ?head rises above that of the gods.? According to Hyde Clarke & C. Staniland Wake in Serpent and Siva Worship, Siva is the same as Rudra, the healer, and is called the King of Serpents. He is depicted with a garland of skulls, symbolizing time measured in years, the changing of ages. He is called sometimes Nagabhushana Vyalakalpa or ?having serpents round his neck? and Nagaharadhrik or ?wearing serpent-necklaces? and also Nagaendra, Nagesha or ?king of Nagas? is also known as Nakula, the ?mongoose? which means one who is immune from the venom of the snake.

 

3 See Gnosis: The Secret of Solomon?s Temple Revealed by Philip Gardiner due out March 06 under Radikal Books.

 

4 The word, Emerald comes from the Greek, smaragdos, which simply means ?green stone? ? although true emeralds have been popular for well over 4,000 years. Cleopatra, the famous Queen of Egypt who died from the bite of an Asp, was fond of them ? and more than any other gem! She had the emerald mined near Aswan. The emerald is found on Jewish breastplates and is used as Indian Talismans. Spaniards stole it during the conquest of South America and the Incas held it in high veneration. It is said to cure fevers, epilepsy, leprosy, dysentery, opthalmia, bleeding, liver problems and stings from venomous beasts. It was also strangely said to ?blind? serpents.

 

The Emerald Tablet is a summary of alchemical thought - existing in Arabic and Greek - and mainly having roots in Roman and Greek alchemy, especially that of Hermes - thus bringing to mind that it must originate from the same source as the Dionysiac Architects or the Roman Collegia.

 

One of the earliest recordings of its existence is from an 8th century, Arabic work. Some relate the Emerald to the Sacro Catino of Genoa, the supposed Holy Grail, said to have been in the possession of the Queen of Sheba, which was made from green or emerald glass.

 

It was believed that a physician named Galienus who calls it the Table of Zaradi recovered The Tablet from the Thrice Great Hermes. Many believe Galienus to be the surgeon Galen, but others believe it to be a mistranslation of Balinas (Apollonius of Tyana.) If this is the case, then the Emerald Tablet of the great serpent deity, Hermes, would be coming directly from the sage who visited the Naga (serpent) kings of India and Kashmir and who is himself said to be long-lived.

 

The term, Zaradi derives from the word for ?underground cave? or ?chamber? and alludes to an ?otherworldly? domain ? possibly the Shamanic Underworld.

 

Other people said to have discovered the Tablet are equally incorporated into the serpent worship story. Alexander the Great and Zara (Sarah) ? the wife of Abraham ? who is said to have taken it from the hands of Hermes just after the flood.

 

Original article by Philip Gardiner

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

Icemarle, that is the point I was trying to make. Your clrifying opinion was greatly needed. Thank you.

 

HoRuS:

You are saying that we go to heaven instantly? Let me first ask for evidence. Because you need it to back your claim. Here is mine:

Now it doesn't sound to me like you are instantly transported to heaven after you die. No, you remain in the ground. When the unjust and sinful die, they stay in the ground. A right and godly person does otherwise? No! Here is proof.

And there you have it. We will rise first. When? When Jesus comes AGAIN. No this is not the Rapture, which doesn't exist anyway. and no this is not that instant thing we talked about earlier, this is down to earth, where the rubber hits the road, Christ coming again. Check it out for yourself.

 

Now of this second coming. You say that he is already here. Are you denying a second coming? Because if that was so, then Revelation is nothing but a hoax. which it isn't, since the Bible says that the Word of God is valuable and worthy to be used for reproof, and for teaching all people. Now ytour evidence:....

 

Sorry, but a book ain't no proof for me. Especially a book used to opress humans, written by human hands.

And I didn't say we go to heaven instantly, we get reborn All civilizations before ours talked about reincarnation, wich i believe were very much apart from eachother, so how did they get the same interpretation of life?

And true, I don't believe in a second coming, at least in the way the 'holy' book tells us. Jesus is no God, he was a prophet. Jesus has been here more then you know, in the name of Boeddha, Krishna, Quetzlpatl (typo), Tutanchamon and as Jesus and maybe the same soul is somewhere here right now, who knows. And yes, he is allready among us, I said that, but I also said in our hearts, his teachings are still here, his knowledge is still here... Only problem is that it has been falsified by human hands, the same hands who crusified him.

 

In the book Heaven and Hell are described as places we go to when we are good or bad, nothing is more false... It is what you make of it yourself... For example: when you do bad, like hurting people, your soul will reincarnate on this Earth, in this dimension, untill you learn, that is what Hell truly is. When you do good, your soul will have a choice, whether to go to a higher 'level' (what you call Heaven) or remain here to gain more knowledge about this specific dimension. Since we all are part of God, there is no final destination because when we learn, God learns as well, wich is an infinite process.

I'm not gonna throw with quotes, because it's different for every individual and everyone has their own experience. Those who feel it, know it.

HoRuS: You misunderstood me. I mean there is no instant life after death. That life comes again when Jesus once again returns. Not before. Yes we fight over religion. I believe it is wrong and that any religion taht fights, is wrong. It says in the Bible that we should not kill. That isn't a suggestion, it is a command. If we relied on God to take care of us, then we would be safe. In the bible, people only fought if directly commanded by God.

 

I didn't misunderstand you, but I'm trying to explain that there is instant life after death... The whole idea of God (you say Jesus, he was only a messenger) coming to save us is another proof of how easy people think:'we messed up and God will come and fix it, so we can mess up again'.

Jesus will not return, but allready is among us in our hearts... The message he spread should not be confused with the messenger himself. When he passed on he showed us there is life after death, by descending back to Earth, when he healed the sick, he was showing us that every human can heal with his or her 'being'(soul). When he turned water into wine, he showed us the principles of alchemy, wich also is affected by the soul.

 

And the 'real' God will never lead a war, no war wich is fought in our whole history was ever commanded by God, but merely by those who say they worship God.

 

You say 'Thou shall not steal and thou shall kill no one',

still you steal from us, kill us and then you teach us wrong.

^^^quoted by an opressed freedomfighter^^^ I can totally relate to it

Finally one thing we agree with. Yes, I am man, and cannot expect or even be, as good as God. But I think people hear what they want to hear. This life after death issue is a hoax. Many people say it because they feel secure knowing that their relatives are in heaven. The point of the matter is, there isn't enough evidence to support it. I you like, I could do a full research on it using my Bible program. It willgive me all the texts, but I already have in the past and have been in enough debates on the subject to know that, in the end, everyone realizes that there is no evidence for that theory, even if they don't except mine.

 

I don't look at anything as a religion, but as what the Bible says. Religions all have their flaws, so I feel safer not going by anything if it cannot be backed up with scripture, the Bible says it is the Word of God suitable for teaching and reproving people, that is all you need. Hey thanks for discussing, if you want to talk more about it, feel free. the topic is still open.

 

You say there is no evidence for life after death... Do you have any evidence that there is nothing after death? That it is just 'nothing'? Heh, then why bother to live? Then why do we exist? Why do we experience? Why do we struggle? Why do we even have a conciousness?

 

I don't believe in religions, but I do believe there is an eternal 'conciousness' wich keeps everything moving and all human, animal and even vegitation's minds are part of it. Some call this 'force' God, some Allah and some have other names, but I don't think it even has a name, cause it does not need a name.

 

Now I believe that religion is here because god created us out of love and because he wanted to make something and had a plan for us. That is my opinion.

If religion is here because God made us out of love, why do we always fight over religions?

And I gotta agree with Trystim on this:

I myself believe that religion was put here (by religion i mean different denominations) to scare people into saying you have to come do this and do that. The bible states that lift a rock you will find me. If you do just the little bit of research it takes you will find that the shape of the windows in a church/synagogue are symbolic of the womans vagina and the steeples are symbolic of the mans penis.

 

Religion is being used as a meaning to control people. Why else do they say we all goto hell if we don't live by their standards? Why do babies always get baptized or circumsized before they can speak or choose for themselves?

Many shapes are indeed symbols for falusses, even the towers themselves... And I never saw a female priest in a church, mosque or synagogue... Geee I wonder what the connection is...

I post in lots of forums,, from wich are mostly gaming forums.I wanna post here as much as possible, but I don't have much to contribute, still I post here as much as I can

Yeah, I can imagine you're gettin tired of those dreams.Most have hidden messages, but some look like scenes from horror-movies... Do you watch those often? Cuz they can also mess up someones mind. My ex-gf had lots of similar dreams and she was addicted to horror-movies. There are subliminal pics in lots of those movies wich can affect ones subconciousness dramatically.The human mind has weird ways to express itself, dream mostly tell about what in life bothers you most and not always in way we'd like to. If there is a change in our lives, we mostly dream of death. If we are forced to do things we don't wanna or we are required to do stuff we don't wanna, we can dream of exorsism.There are some people who can help ya out with explaining those dreams and integrate their meanings in life.I hope it works out soon, good luck

The Catholic church want us to believe in God, Jesus, Mary etc... but why is it when people claim to have spoken to God, this same church poor water on the idea. Odd hey! Did three children speak with the mother of God in 1917 or not. If they didn't its a fraud. If they did...

 

I found a site, which really puts the story of the 1917 Fatima apparitions into perspective. Once you realize that the witnesses to the apparitions were young children, you can quickly start to imagine the manipulation that might (would) have occurred. Our Lady would not have appeared to 3 innocent children and then frighten them with stories and visions of hell. That is absurd. Although this site is promoting a book (the one Mel Gibson has purchased for film rights) the simple synopsis of the events in Fatima make more sense than anything I have read.

 

Well it is kinda obvious they want people to follow their faith... I hope people will arise to this brainwash religions, all of 'em. I think it has nothing to do with God with pourring water over a babies head nor cutting a piece of one's genetals. It is all about power and oppression.

 

It is known children can see, feel, hear and talk to spirits, angels, souls and all that, but usually people are scared for what they can't see and say that it is their imagination. Children might have talken to Mary (she ain't no mother of God, merely the mother of a prophet) because children are closer to 'God' then adults, since adult's minds get filled with lies and false stories about the 'God' they worship, wich were only entities playing with the human minds and masking Gaia's vortexes with false energies.

 

But back on topic... Spirits, souls and such can manifest to a beholder they way the beholder wants to see them, e.g. if he/she is religious, they will appear as Mary or other religious persons so the beholder does not get frightened before they show what they want the beholder to see. Holy spirits showing hell (wich doesn't even exist, since we make our own hell on this world) that doesn't make sense, if it were the real spitits of maria and such, they would bring whole other messages then showing hell. I think it were only some Earth-bound souls wich were trapped in their own misery wich they shown to the children in a way comprehensive to the human brain, and the whole thing really got blown up, since they manifested as Mary.

Hmmm Simpsons and South Park are cool, but I still prefer a real classic

Ren & Stimpy still are on top of my list, especially because none of their cartoons made sense

Even though other people die from starvation, when someone cough or sneezes on my food, I would get rid of it, since I never would know what kinda deceases they carry.The rest doesn't really bothers me, especially the insect one (unless it's a roach)

I would keep my eyes the way they are, hazel colored Most female friends of mine like 'em as they are so they can 'drown' in them *caugh*

lol... I play age 5 now since it started and I have to admit... Now that I have a sab account it really IS addictive, especially sabbing a whole alliance or alliances. Have sabbed weapons now worthy of 6 bill gold, but now it gets boring. Mostly because we (my alliance) keeps sabbing the same chain over and over and over

Some people just like to be 'party-crashers'simply because they like to bash other people's opinions and fun.Very childish indeed, maybe there should be some kinda persmissions installed on that site wich prohibit them from seeing what you talk about. I know, especially if it's a public community, that is restricts the normal users as well, but with those bashers around, everyone's fun get spoiled

yeah and this popped into mind too, 6 june 1966 and 6 june 1906 and so on also came and we're still here

Heh, I'm sure nothing will happen at 06-06-06. There is nothing related to 666 and if something happens it's human's work to drive us mad. The 666 wich was given to the beast, but it's just a numerologic thing, likewise with the 999 or 777 given to God. Also, our calendars don't match with the planets nor stars so if it was true it would have happened long time ago. (yes I have more faith in the Mayan/Egyptian calendar, wich was based on the stars).And uhm... what is the worst what could happen? It's allready hell on Earth (at least, that's what the media show), so that's not likely to happen ;)Oh and you left out the 0 in 06 yourself, cuz in 'real' timeframe it's written 06-06-2006 or 6 June 2006.6-6-06 is only a shortcut, made by humans

Why is that Kasm?It's only a way to say goodbye to a community they've been part of.

But back on topic... It is true that computers can distract people from real life, same goes for television.
Yes, it is a fun way at times to spend time viewing others visions (tell a vision ) or doing digital interactivities, but life is to live like a human, not like a zombie.

Some of my favourites: (most are not really famous)Akon - Ghetto- Pot of Gold- Look at me now Jedi Mind Tricks - Save yourself (ft Killah Priest)- Rise of the machines- I against IOuterspace - Top Shelf- Chapter of Thunder- Angels of Death (ft Immortal Technique)Elephant Man- Rah Rah- Grindin (ft Sean Paul & Sizzla)- Pon The Replay (ft Rihanna)There are many more though, too many to write down

SM, I don't know you very well, but good luck with the things you want/need to do.Been here over a year and got your help/advice a couple of times, I guess you will leave a space behind and T17 will welcome you back whenever you wanna return.

Hotmail really is the worst, on my pc 90% when I try to open it, it refuses.The ads really slow things down and even automaticly reboots my pc o_OIt reports almoost everything as spam, I have to check out my spam everyday to see what is in there and put it back as non-spam.I rather use gmail... Lots of space and can be used for email-clients, unlike hotmail

Not to insult, but I don't think you read my post all the way through. All you did was essentially reinforce (though with better wording) ideas I already agreed with. Those were "contradictions" that I myself disagreed with.

 

What about the King Soloman one?

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haha that was the point of my post, to reinforce those ideas.

Am somewhat confused about the Solomon one...

 

How many stalls and horsemen?

 

KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

 

CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

in the KI1 4:26 he had forty thousand stalls of horses meant for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

In de CH2 9:25 he had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots.

Seems more like a story of a battle to me. I think I need to search the book for the surrounding context.