Is Jesus God? A look at Christology.

[demolaynyc 0]

John (Johannes) 17:1-5
Jesus said these things. Then, raising his eyes in prayer, he said:
Father, it's time.
Display the bright splendor of your Son
So the Son in turn may show your bright splendor.
You put him in charge of everything human
So he might give real and eternal life to all in his charge.
And this is the real and eternal life:
That they know you,
The one and only true God,
And Jesus Christ, whom you sent.
I glorified you on earth
By completing down to the last detail
What you assigned me to do.
And now, Father, glorify me with your very own splendor,
The very splendor I had in your presence
Before there was a world.

^ This is where Awan got the verse from. I used "The Message" translation so it's easier for you to read.

Background: God the Father sends Jesus (the Son) to earth to be in charge of every human being, so that He (God the Father) will save all he's in charge of (believers).

I believe there is only one God. The same God who made the universe came down to earth to save us. In three days he rose up as the Holy Spirit.

In the hymn, "Holy, Holy, Holy" it says:

Holy Holy Holy, Lord God Almighty, God in Three Persons Blessed Trinity

Edited March 1, 2007 by demolaynyc (see edit history)

[mitchellmckain 0]

According to chirstianity he was not good chesso until he had fufilled the atonement. Before that he was the Son of God, and really God is the Father and Jesus (the Lord) the son. I don't believe in the holy trnitiy btw hence my statement.

You can believe that this is the "true Christian" belief if you like, there are a lot of people who believe things like that. BUT the vast majority of Christianity are of a consensus that this idea of yours in incorrect and heretical because it contradicts passages in the Bible, which in at least two places state that Jesus was the creator of the world.

 

 

No where in the Bible does it state the holy trinity. But that's another arguement.

 

God cannot be in 3 persons. Not sensible.

That is correct. The Trinity is not in the Bible. It is a doctrine made by human beings. But it would be a big mistake to say that it is not Biblical. Despite the fact that it is not in the Bible it is the view of God that is most consistent with the entire Bible. Any attempt to make a simpler more logical view of God will come into direct conflict with passages in the Bible. A non-Christian would have some justification in concluding that by embracing a Bible full of contradictions, Christians have been forced to construct a view of God that is just as full of contradictions.

 

Well I mean heck if he's god, he can do whatever the hell he likes can't he? lol.

 

If he can make us and everything, I'm sure he can whack a piece of himself in several different vessels.

That is ideed, essentially the Christian answer to the criticism of SiverFox. If you believe in an infinite all-powerful God then to be more than one person is no contradiction at all. Perhaps He is an infinite number of persons and we are only acquainted with three of them.

 

But "whack a piece of himself" is not properly Christian for many reasons. One of those reasons is that God is not only three persons but He was always three persons.

 

 

Please don't think that the Holy Trinity is three Gods. From Deutoronomy 6:4 it says

 

Okay maybe this may be more clear to you, God reveals himself in three forms.

 

He is the creator (the Father); He is our saviour (the Son); He is our guide (The Holy Spirit)

Well "three forms", is actually modalism which was declared a heresy. The key point is that it is three persons but one nature, one essence, one substance, one God. One is strongly tempted to think of split personality disorder, except that for God this is not any kind of disorder. Three different persons does suggest three different personalities, and that gives cause to wonder what is the different personality traits. I certainly don't hear anything like this suggested by Christians however. I could suggest that their personality differences are purely relational (having to do with how they relate to each other and to mankind), and I think Christians would be a lot happier with that.
Edited March 1, 2007 by mitchellmckain (see edit history)

[demolaynyc 0]

citing from John 1

The Word Became Flesh 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a]it.

explanation: the Word is Jesus; Jesus was with God in the beginning and he WAS God. Through him (Jesus) all things were made.

the Word = Jesus
how? here describes Jesus

John 1:10-14
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of Godâ 13children born not of natural descent,[c]nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

14: The Word became HUMAN and dwelled or lived among humans, us.



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If you want more answers, read this (it only takes 5 minutes to read): http://www.christiananswers.net/kids/ednk-jesusgodorman.html

[SilverFox1405241541 0]

For one mitchellmckain dont' call me a heretic. That is a insult and I don't like that.No Jesus did create the world...even though he was the Son of God. Do not imply that I said he did not create the earth.As for the rest of what you said...I can't really disagree. But Don't make implications off what I say. Jesus did create the world and I never said anything contray. Thanks and please refrain from labeling me a heretic.As for what Chesso said about Jesus being a wahck of smoething, I find that offensive. Chesso, your smarter than that!

Edited March 1, 2007 by SilverFox (see edit history)

[yuhuu 0]

well for me is kind of simple,,God loves us so much that He did not care to become a fragile being as a human, just to be able to be in touch with them and to warn them in their language that a hope had come..."come on,,, He is God" He can become anything in he wants to, but as for humans He decided to interact with them in three ways, The Father, The Son, and The Spirit...It is not about God having the possibility of having different ways to interact with humans..It is more about humans not having the posibility of understanding God fully, much less to see him fully, because our eyes are not perfect..Our eyes just see light reflections...I hope I made myself understood...it is not about God being three persons,,is about the body of humans and its capacity to recognize God...The whole bilbe tells us that God presented himsel to humans in three ways, as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.A well used example would be water, vapor, and ice...These three are H2O. Our problem is that we are not able to see atoms or molecules...Because if we were able to see atoms and molecules,,then we would see H2O rather than ice, vapor and water...is not about the H2O. It is about us and our lack of capacity to see atoms and molecules.Of course, you wont find the word trinity..or holy trinity..But you will find a lot of passages that shows God as one of these three persons..If somebody tries to modify the bible as to present God in just one person, will come to very big contradictions..needles to say, that it would take a very long lasting work to modify every single verse of the bilble to present God as one person...And I am sure,,,that if someone does that,,he will sure forget to change some verses...

[demolaynyc 0]

well for me is kind of simple,,God loves us so much that He did not care to become a fragile being as a human, just to be able to be in touch with them and to warn them in their language that a hope had come..."come on,,, He is God" He can become anything in he wants to, but as for humans He decided to interact with them in three ways, The Father, The Son, and The Spirit...It is not about God having the possibility of having different ways to interact with humans..It is more about humans not having the posibility of understanding God fully, much less to see him fully, because our eyes are not perfect..Our eyes just see light reflections...
I hope I made myself understood...it is not about God being three persons,,is about the body of humans and its capacity to recognize God...The whole bilbe tells us that God presented himsel to humans in three ways, as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

A well used example would be water, vapor, and ice...These three are H2O. Our problem is that we are not able to see atoms or molecules...Because if we were able to see atoms and molecules,,then we would see H2O rather than ice, vapor and water...is not about the H2O. It is about us and our lack of capacity to see atoms and molecules.

Of course, you wont find the word trinity..or holy trinity..But you will find a lot of passages that shows God as one of these three persons..If somebody tries to modify the bible as to present God in just one person, will come to very big contradictions..needles to say, that it would take a very long lasting work to modify every single verse of the bilble to present God as one person...And I am sure,,,that if someone does that,,he will sure forget to change some verses...

I can't make that any more clearer. I agree with your statement. I like the way of using water as an example, it is really clear.

[SilverFox1405241541 0]

If Jesus wasn't a man what was he? LolHe was born of a mortal mother. As for the trinity, God in three persons, I'd say that its not as important as believing in Jesus and following him. I personally believe in the God Head: Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Not literally one, but one in purpose, mind and spirit so to speak. But that dosn't make me a heretic...lolz gosh no need to come in saying. UR A HERETIC. I'm in ur churches burning your heretics! lolz take this last line in humor! lol

[demolaynyc 0]

If Jesus wasn't a man what was he?

He was a man alright. But he was from God. He was sent by God.

 

He was born of a mortal mother.

Yes it's true, he did come out of the womb of a mortal, but that can't disprove that he is God.

 

SilverFox, you've told us that you believe Jesus, I don't mean to disproof your relation with him instead help you grow in faith in Him by sharing with you His word.

 

Isn't this Jesus? The one you and I believe? :

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d]who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The Word became human and he came from the Father. Now who came from the Father, wasn't that Jesus?

 

If it is Jesus, then this verse proves he is God.

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

Because the Word was God, and the Word was Jesus, then wouldn't that mean that Jesus was God. Jesus was not just a human, he is the Son who was sent by God to save us from our sin, to free us from it.

[SilverFox1405241541 0]

demonyalic I mainly agree with you. It was this other person who called me a heretic...lolz

[demolaynyc 0]

oh ok. lol

[Chesso 0]

Well I have no idea how you all interpret or believe he is 3 of what ever at any one time."whack a piece of himself" was used as an expression, somehow he is 3 but 1, if he crammed himself in 3 different people you could consider that statement true (as an example).

[SilverFox1405241541 0]

In my view its not possible, even for God to be 3 in one...why must they be one in body? Rather they are figurtivly one and one in purpose, mind and sprit.

[mitchellmckain 0]

demonyalic I mainly agree with you. It was this other person who called me a heretic...lolz

Actually I wasn't calling you a heretic. I am just relating the judgements of the eccumenical council on these issues. But personally I don't think these judgements were meant to be used to cut people off from the body of Christ calling them heretics unless these personal views are used to repudiate the faith and experience of other Christians. I think that is essentially what makes the Jehova Witnesses heretical, for example. It is not their Arian view of Jesus so much as it is their doctrine that all other denominations of Christianity are inspired by the Devil.

The eccumenical councils made these compromises for rather practical reasons in response to the strong tendency of people to use issues like Christology to create division within the church. These decisions form a big part of the worldwide consensus about what it means to be Christian. Far be it from me to dictate to you how the Bible should be interpreted, but I do think it is valuable to be aware of these things.
Edited March 3, 2007 by mitchellmckain (see edit history)

[demolaynyc 0]

I'm sorry but I didn't really get what you were saying.

[mitchellmckain 0]

Well I have no idea how you all interpret or believe he is 3 of what ever at any one time.
"whack a piece of himself" was used as an expression, somehow he is 3 but 1, if he crammed himself in 3 different people you could consider that statement true (as an example).

No. I know this is a pain in the butt. But the way you say it makes it sound like one person split apart and became three different persons. But the Trinity doctrine is that there always were these three different persons in the one God. The idea is that God transcends the usual ideas of personhood, so that these three different persons are this one being called God. It appears that they are individually by nature indistinguishable in the sense that they are all perfect, infinite, all powerful, all knowing and uncreated. The only thing which distinguishes them are the relationships between them and between each and mankind. The only way I can really make any sense of it at all, is to put it down to the peculiarities of an infinite being.