Is Jesus God? A look at Christology.

[mitchellmckain 0]

There is no doubt that questions about the nature of Jesus has been a source of trouble in the understanding of Christian doctrine and scripture from the earliest days of the church. The question of whether Jesus is God belongs to the branch of theology known as Christology. Christology has been an unholy mess and numerous attempts to solve the mysteries involved have been declared heresies by the eccumenical councils. Ten of the seventeen major heresies have to do with Christology.

 

Arianism: Jesus was originally created by God the Father.

Apollinarianism: Divine will overshadowed and replaced the human in Jesus.

Docetism: Jesus only seemed to be human, but was really divine.

Monophysitism: Jesus had only divine nature not human nature.

Nestorianism: Jesus' divinity and humanity were separate in two distinct persons.

Tritheism: Jesus is a separate god from God the Father.

Socinianism (Unitarianism): The Holy Spirit is God's power and Jesus is a deified man.

Modalism (Modal Monarchianism): Jeus is a mode of God the Father.

Kenosis: Jesus gave up divine attributes while on earth.

Adoptionism (Dynamic Monarchianism): God gave Jesus his powers and adopted him as a son.

 

In rejection of these ideas the eccumenical councils affirmed "hypostatic union" that Jesus is fully man and fully God, and His two natures of human and divine are neither mixed nor separate but united in one person. This is part of the doctine of the Trinity, that there is one God but three persons.

 

 

But back to the question of whether Jesus is God, when we look up the question we will find these references to scripture used to establish that Jesus is God: John 10:30-38, Matthew 16:13-17, Mark 14:61-64, John 14:6, Hebrews 1:8, Colossians 1:16 and John 12:40-41.

 

However....

 

Matthew 16:13-17, Mark 14:61-64 only says the Son of God.

 

But...

 

Hebrews 1:10 and Colossians 1:16 say that Jesus is the creator of heaven and earth, which is certainly something we associate with God.

 

Furthermore Hebrews 1:8 gives him the title of God and Colossians 1:19-20 explains that in Jesus all the fulness of God dwells so that in Jesus all things of Heaven and Earth are reconciled to Him. Then of course there is the gospel of John chapter 1 where it says that the "Word" was God and in the beginning with God, that through the "Word" all things were made, and then in verse 14 that the "Word" became flesh (a man) and dwelt among us, and finally John the Baptist bore witness that Jesus was that man.

 

In John 10:30-38, Jesus says "I and My Father are one", in John 12:45, He says, "And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me", and finally in John 14:7-10, He says, "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him. Phillip said to Him, 'Lord show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.' Jesus said to him, 'Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Phillip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, Show us the Father? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you, I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.'"

 

The closest thing to this in the first three gospels is Matthew 11:27 "All things have been delievered unto Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him", which does not say quite the same thing, or at the very least, is no where near as clear.

 

My conclusion therefore is that although there is no clear declaration that Jesus is God in the first three gospels, it is the clear position of the gospel of John that Jesus is God, and likewise it is clear that the apostle Paul acknowledges and embraces this teaching of John's gospel in His letters. So whether you argue or not that this idea that Jesus is God was added by those who came later, you cannot hold the gospel of John and the letters of Paul to be authoritative and also repudiate this doctrine that Jesus is God.

 

So even though in my own case, the affirmation of the divinity of Jesus is not central to my own faith, I cannot deny it and I even defend the doctrine, for I see sufficient support for it in scripture and I see no contradiction in it. Perhaps I should explain. In the concept of "hypostatic union" (fully man and fully God), it is apparent that the categories of man and God are not mutually exclusive. This does not mean that finite man (though he may have infinite potential) could ever be God who is infinite in actuality. However, it is not beyond the ability of God to become a man. In fact it is clear that God did not simply assume the form of a man, but became as all men begin in their mother's womb, a single cell growing until that time they are born a helpless infant.

 

But now here is the confusing part. Was Jesus a helpless infant? If the infant was God then it seems obvious that the infant could do anything, and was therefore anything but helpless. This seems troublesome to me because if Jesus was not a helpless infant then in what way was He a man since all men are born as such. Yet it is clear that God did nothing that an infant could not do. So I cannot help but conclude that God decided that He would not do anything that a helpless infant could not do. But we are inclined to say, He could have changed His mind! Perhaps He could. But God does not do that. God's decisions are the laws of the universe. It was His decision that gravity would hold us in a certain way to the earth and that decision is the law of gravity. His decisions make everthing in this universe what it is. Therefore if God decided that He would not do anything that an infant could not do, then that is the law of its nature and we can say that God was in truth an infant in every sense.

 

Thus by His own decision, for a time on earth, He was by His own choice emptied of infinite knowledge and power to become the helpless infant Jesus, to learn and grow in wisdom and strength as all men do.

 

Phillipians 2:5-8 "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross,"

 

Luke 2:52 "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men."

 

But if God bound himself to the limitations of a human being during His time on earth, then there was nothing that Jesus did that we also could not do. This idea would cause some consternation among Christians who like to point to the miracles that Jesus did and say that no human being could do such things. Well they would be right that only God could do such things. But it also clear that Jesus sent out His disciples to do everything that He himself had done, and they could do it because God would answer their prayers. Jesus said in Matt 17:20 that if they had but the faith the size of a mustard seed, they could command a mountain to move. The point is that power of God is available to all human beings for the asking, so Jesus did not in fact do anything that human beings could not do with a little faith. Thus Jesus was fully man.

 

But without infinite power and knowledge in His own person, how was it that Jesus was God? Well God is not just a human definition of power and knowledge, but a real person. That helpless infant was still the person who created the heavens and the earth. We could say that just because God decided not to use His infinite power and knowledge, why would this mean that He was not God? Ok yes God decided before hand that He would not and this decision is the same as a law of nature, so even though we can say that He merely did not use His power, we can also say that laid it aside and subjected Himself to this limitation.

 

But now this sounds a great deal like the heresy listed above as Kenosis. This was declared a heresy because it was thought that if Jesus was not fully divine, then His atoning work would not be sufficient to atone for the sins of the world. They were aware that, declaring that Jesus retained all the infinite power and knowledge of God, was in clear contradiction of scripture (for example Mark 13:32, "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.") But, I deny that the infinite power and knowledge of God is necessary to His divinity. God is not our human definition of omniscience and omnipotence. Our definitions do not bind Him, such that He cannot do anything which seems to contradict them. God is just as capable of risk, self limitation and sacrifice as any of us. It is not this power and knowlege which makes God what He is, no more than it defines who we are. If we were to lose power or knowledge in any form or by whatever means, it does not change who we are! Nor does it change who God is because God is also a person not just some theological definition.

 

If God is defined by anything it is goodness and love. This is not a human definition, for goodness and love is not defined by men but by God. All understanding of goodness and love by human beings are a shadow and distortion of what is truly good and loving. Pure goodness and love is found only in God. I think that there are some things that are worth any sacrifice and which justify defying even a god of knowledge and power. I think that such a circumstances would "strip God of His divinity" (so to speak) more surely than any lack of power and knowledge. Therefore it seems to me that God cannot be opposed to any cause that is truly founded in compassion and justice. Any opposition to God must ultimately derive from some fault of our own that calls some selfish conceit of ours, love or justice merely for own convenience and self-justification.

 

So I believe that I uphold "hypostatic union" (fully God and fully man) when I say that "in becoming a human being inside of time and space God shed all of his infinite power and knowledge (humbled himself) to become an innocent and helpless infant". For I say nevertheless, this infant remained fully God and fully man because being helpless does not preclude divinity, no more than losing an arm or a leg deprives a man of his humanity. Not only does this make the idea of Jesus being fully man make a lot more sense but it is much more fully compatable with scripures such as Luke 2:52 and Mark 13:32. Even though I deny that infinite power and knowledge is necessary to God's divinity, I do think that our finitude is very much a definitive part of the circumstance of being human. For God to take the form of human being without sharing in our finitude, would be nothing more than play acting.

 

Thus I believe that I can say that this is not the heresy of Kenosis, for I do not claim that in becoming a man, God emptied himself of His divinity, but according to scripture (Colossians 1:19-20) reconcilled in Himself all things of heaven and earth to become fully God and fully man.

 

However, I will say that this interpretation explained above is only my opinion and my interpretation, and I would not dream of saying that anyone must agee with me. I take no authority upon myself in regards to the truth or in regards to the interpretation of scripture. The Bible is the word of God and in my view it is the only authoritative statement of truth for everyone to understand as best they can.

Edited January 5, 2007 by mitchellmckain (see edit history)

[Chesso 0]

But the fact of the matter is, no one can prove any of those, or anything that goes against them so..... what can you do lol.

[mitchellmckain 0]

But the fact of the matter is, no one can prove any of those, or anything that goes against them so..... what can you do lol.

Not much is provable. But science definitely has some advantages if that is what you mean.

From a non-Christian perspective what does Christology have to do with anything? Well, regardless of whether you accept the beliefs of Christianity, it is as much a fact of our world as the existence of birds. So if nothing else, Christology may help the non-Christian understand the issues which underly its bewildering variety, and understand the growing unity among Christians as well, according to the consensus about what is really Christian.

As for myself I was not sure that the question of Jesus divinity was such an important one. Even in my post above you will find me saying, that this belief that Jesus is God, is not central to my own faith. But having time to think it over, I have changed my mind.

It is quite central to the Christian faith that the saving power of Jesus' death on the cross comes from the realization that human beings tortured and murdered the one being who loves them more than they could ever imagine. This event reconciled man to God, because it makes us realize that this being who loves us is the very one who created us. It makes us understand how much He loves us because it shows His willingness to bear the consequences of our sin. And finally, it brings home to us the devastating consequences of our sin by showing us that it caused us to torture and murder the God who loves us. The comprehension of this event presents us with a choice between the sin that makes us do such things and the loving creator who is willing to bear such consequences.

If you take away the divinity of Christ then what is left of this? We have a man who would reconcile us to God and whose best intention brought him into conflict with an evil world. We may love and admire this person, but no matter how innocent, loving and good He is, He is still just another victim of evil. Yes His spirit triumphs in the end as we believe all such victims do. But how shall this make us see God except to lay another injustice like this at His feet. I see no reconciliation with God in this at all.

It seems to me that the only other theory that makes sense is the adoptionist one of the moonies and other dynamic monarchians, that the man Jesus reconciled us to God by being the first human being to become all that God hoped that man should become. I think this works logically but I also think that the result is not even remotely Christian, for in this case we are not saved by the power of God but by our own effort. This theology gives religious organizations the task of showing us how this may be done. Telling us what we must do for eternal life, however, is a rather great deal of power to be in the hands of a human organization, don't you think?

In conclusion I must say that the divinity of Christ is indeed central to the faith of any Christian (whether He knows it or not).

[demolaynyc 0]

Basically, "God in three Persons" God is not human remember that so we can't personify God. God can do anything, therefore God is One. Holy Trinity is God the Father, God the Holy Spirit, and God the Son. They're all one God.

[yuhuu 0]

I wanted to thank mitchel, for that grat Post. Without setting a stand, he explains all the escriptural base of tha divinity of JesusChrist. I agree with the all the positive consecuences that the dead of JesusChrist gave us. And Yes, God loved us so much that He gave his only son to die instead of us. Somebody had to die. And que did not spare his only Son to pay for our sins....If he was God or not,,is not an issue for me..For me is simple to believe He is God..but for some reason, it is not simple for a lot of people. I even came to calm myself with believing that God made us so..He predistined us..before the creation...Is like his word can only bear fruit in some humans....Sad,,,for them,,they dont know what they are missing...We know,,what we are missing,,and we fulfill it with His Love..

[Chesso 0]

So then, how many people follow the bible properly exactly....You know, no smoking, drinking, or man-made anything, cause it's evil and all that.Cheating, sex before marriage, I wonder how any can actualy forfull all of this in the present day hahaha.

[Quatrux 4]

Agreed, things are changing and traditional "laws" (lifestyle/world view) how to live doesn't work anymore, it is outdated just like using frames, some people still use them though we have new laws, laws of our countries and etc. We live differently now and totally different I mean, the order bible and church created years ago might of scared people to live in a "good" way (even though, studying history quite well, I found much more bad things Church made than good), but we also live in a "good" way in a way, if we think it is good, but anyway, I am not saying that religion is *BLEEP*, I believe in God, but not into the one which is in the Church, the Church was created in my opinion simply by people like we, who had much less knowledge about the environment we are living in and how that "environment" works, just study how GOD changed since 4000 BC to 1000 ADOn some documentary movie I saw one professor who said something like this: if Jesus was real, he was born in a place and time where he was very lucky that people believed in him and etc. If you would ever wonder, we have a lot of people "pretending" to be the Son of God these days, most of whom say that they are just mad, you can't fool people so easy by doing some trick these days, scientists even proofed theoretically, why Jesus went through the sea and the Egyptian Chariots couldn't, in short, because of some Volcano or something, or Earthquake which created a tsunami or similar and water level for some time there was very low anyway, a lot of discussions can be made and a lot of facts can be told, if you believe in it - good, if you don't also good, the main thing is that you would be a "good" person/character!

[Chesso 0]

Yeah I can't object to that lol, everyone should forget god(s) or otherwise and just be plain good .

[yuhuu 0]

For those who think that our lifestyles are so different than the one Jesus lived. Well you guys are wrong..Selfishness, envy, lust, greed, all this come from within the human being...Bible says so...Beg your pardon, for not giving you the verses..I forget easily the numbers...but is there...Men (,,and their tendency to lust, greed, envy, etc..) are the same, because we all come from Adam. This means that sex before marriage has been with us since the creation of man,,that alcohol or any kind of fermented poison is being with us,,since the creation of men...And to be Christian, does not mean that you won sin anymore...it just means that you take a stand in front of sin..you come to open your mind and realize that you are sinning,,that it if you dont repent,,you will end up in hell after death,,and you will make your life miserable while alive..So,,you repent...God himself,,said that you will have to forgive your neighborr endless times...you HAVE to forgive him,,if he asks for forgiveness....not one but infinite times..this means that God himself knows that their sons will fall,,,but He will be there to give you a Hand, He will raise you again,,and you will keep living this life style called Christianity....Either way,,believe in Him or not,, He loves you,,and He wants you not to die, but to life forever in heaven..All that you have to do,,is accept Jesuschirist in your heart. Revelations 3:20...And that is all you have to do,,to get your ticket for Heaven...You dont have to do good works,,you dont have to pay,,you dont have to penitence,,you dond have to sacrifice,,you dont have to do, earn , pay anything,,,because that ticket is a Gift of God if you accept HIm....And last of all,,,Jesuschrist is there,,,it does not matter if you are sinner or saint,,He is there because He does not depend on your feelings or believings..He is there because He is God..period and He loves you..

[Chesso 0]

So basically if we had no laws they would have an excuse to screw the hell up and just be forgiven.Wow that's.... yeah that's a perfect solutions to the worlds problems.Mistakes and Accidents do happen, although some surprising but I don't think there are quite that many lol.Oh and by the way, since when did *marriage* exist since the beginning of man kind, I thought that was established later on, why was it not established in the first place and why should we follow something that was not.Anything later on was established by man, was it not.

Edited January 24, 2007 by Chesso (see edit history)

[anzoone 0]

The Issue of Jesus being God has had Christians occupied for a long time. Many died denying that, other just thought that they were the true defenders of Christianity. One thing that i dont understand personaly is that if Jesus is God, why he just doesnt gather all the Christians groups together under one flag. Because if he died for our sins, so why is he letting us suffer now, or is that just his revange....... And there are some more arguments that i ve recently come accross, which are as follows;Jeasus comitted sins by;1- Killing a boy by pushing him off of the root and then lying about it.2- Blinding a man for no valid reason.Theologians' voices are: Dr. David Scholer, New Testament, Fuller Theological Seminary. Kirsti Barrett Copeland, Ph.D., Religion, Princeton University. V. Rev. Fr. John Bakas, St. Sofia's Greek Orthodox Cathedral, Los Angeles. Ther are thousand of other arguments that people have about Jeasus as God, or the son of God, but for me personally getting into this debate and trying to unite all Christians, i would rather spend my energy in uniting all humans, whether they are christians or not.

[Chesso 0]

anzoone, another great idea.Concentrating on the problems right infront of us, rather than the ones wayyyyy behind us is probably a smart idea.

[yuhuu 0]

First of all,, I think that a discussion about Jesuschrist is senseless if you did not read the bible completely. Providing that, it would be nice to write posts beginning with this sentences " I believe ..." I think..." or " it appears to..." That way,,one would be aware of the kind of statement you are doing...If you would have read the bible completely,,then your stataments would be some kind different...ans would be more reasonable...Jesuschrist is God..for a lot of reasons the bible states...How can somebady state something about Jesuschrist,,if he has read only some verses of the bible,,and worse because he read other books as if those were his bible..That is joking...And yes,, marriage was created since the creation of man,,it is somewhere there in Genesis,,I dont remember the number of the verses (I apologize for that) but it says that God blessed adam and eve,,That means they became married..Time and time again,,the story of cultures (you dont have to read the bible for that conclusion) repeats...Humans do not control their lust and the history of that culture ends in violence..tell me an ancient culture,,and its history is more likely the same...they begin, sin,flourish,keep sinning, war and end... the culture dissapear...Humans do not change,,what change is your surroundings,,but your wickenes is there since you are born...humans by themselve dont have a solution to live together..they allways end up in wars...Humans need God to live together, because is his love what unites us....

[Chesso 0]

The bible is a book, that's not proof of anything, no one has proved anything in it, so why would I bother reading it lmao.And what about all the other religious books that believe other details, they think there right, you think your right, and I think your all wrong .

[Quatrux 4]

@ yuhuu

I read the Bible a long time ago to know what it contains, if I didn't I would be silent, because I don't like to talk about something I don't have an idea on and long time ago in school on religion lessons teacher even talked about a lot of stuff and what I found by reading it, that it is a man written book, books are written by Man.. and besides, the bible as I remember was rewritten every time with a little bit different facts to make it a 'better' book or something like that.. So I still am on my statement and continue to agree with Chesso, that a book which is over 2000 years old is really old and not all facts come together and I always think that if even one fact out of millions of facts is proved to be wrong, when everything is false..

Some topics on this forum made me to write an article about God, so you can read it by the bottom link and if you want to get the idea, I think you need to read it all. (English is my third language, so it isn't very fluent, I lack English words)

http://me.quatrux.net/browse.php/does-god-exist.html