Linux: @#$@#$%#$^ !

[rob86 2]

As a newbie user of Ubuntu and Linux, I find the whole world of Linux very overwhelming. It seems like the simplest tasks end up being insanely difficult. For example, I was trying to get MP3's working. I figured I needed a codec, but didn't know where to find one for linux. I asked for help, expecting a simple link to some installation package, or a hint of where to look in the package downloader. The solution couldn't be that simple, though, and someone gave me about a DOZEN terminal commands to paste , each of them almost completely cryptic to me. I was installing Gnome PPP the other day. I was looking for something to download, and found source code. Not having a clue what ot do with it, I read a guide on compiling. I eventually realized it's easier to download DEB files. I wish they had made it a litle more obvious on the download page! So I downloaded it on Windows, rebooted, tried installing GnomePPP. ERROR: NEEDS WVDIAL. So I go back to windows, download wvdial. I reboot, go back on Ubuntu and try installing. ERROR: NEEDS LIBBLAH09634. So I reboot back to windows, search for LIBBLAH09634, download it, and boot up ubuntu. Of course, i'm missing something else, but by this time I'm catching on, download ALL of the dependency files. I eventually realized it's much easier to just download the apps from the package manager. The app packages are naturally much more massive in filesize than on windows (for my little old dialup modem) which makes me wait forever to find out if somethings going to work right. Remember the MP3 Codec? Well, I can't test that until tomorrow, I need to wait 9 hours for it to download. Sheesh!I'm not finding the Ubuntu forums that helpful either. When I post a question, within 5 minutes, my post is about 4 pages deep never to be seen again. It's kind of like a lottery or gambling. If you get lucky, within 5 minutes you'll have half a dozen good and helpful replies, if you're unlucky, your post disappeared into oblivion before anyone had a chance to read it.All in all though, Ubuntu isn't too bad. I don't hate it despite my "Vent". The more I tweak it, the more I figure out how to get rid of the things that annoy me. I learn how to use the command line a bit more every day. I had years to discover the best of Windows apps and customize XP to my liking so it's hard to compare the two. I do enjoy using a new OS though, for a bit of a change. I guess Linux is a love/hate kind of relationship. It's rewarding (I felt quite good after figuring out how to install my modem) but it's also very aggravating at times.

Edited September 1, 2009 by rob86 (see edit history)

[munna.raghav 0]

The same were my reactions when I started using Linux for the first time. When I installed it, it looked great and I felt very amused to see the new operating system that was so boasted about. And I did the same thing you tried to do ..ya ..play a mp3 song and it complained, it didn't had the necessary drivers for the playback and I was totally shocked..what the use of a player which can't even play a mp3. Then I was doing the same thing you talked about downloading packages and installing them. That was really annoying at that time.But now I have changed my way of thinking about Linux and now I appreciate the efforts of the community involved in development of this free but so powerful and useful operating system. Now a days the Linux distributions are so Graphics based that a novice user can deal with it easily without knowing much about the character based interface(the terminal). Now there are package managers which download the needed software and all its dependencies so that you don't have to worry about the dependencies any more. Now you can install that codec you talked about with just two or three clicks. Its a very good platform for program development especially people dealing in open source. Now at the speed with which the operating system Linux is growing... I can see its bright future.Initial I hated Linux, I was annoyed but now I feel proud of being a Linux user.

[truefusion 3]

I've never used Linux with a dial-up connection, so i wouldn't know of the burdens that come with one (everything gets automatically configured through DHCP for me), but i would be interested in hearing of your entire journey and how you got it working. I first switched to Linux back in 2006, to Kubuntu, i think either 6.06 or 6.10. Luckily, i had found out about Linux at a good time, where shortly after my hard drive failed, and burned it onto a CD before the hard drive failure. Thanks to the LiveCD feature, i was able to continue using the computer even after the hard drive failure, and so i purchased a new hard drive online.

I had done some research on many things Linux before entering the Linux world. I researched what would be the best starting distribution—this led me to Ubuntu. But i then found out the many flavors of Ubuntu, so i did some research on the differences between Ubuntu and Kubuntu (skipping Xubuntu), and decided i liked KDE better—even to this day, where i've given GNOME a lot of chances, i place GNOME under Xfce, and Xfce under KDE. During the time that i had first started using Kubuntu, there were no such packages such as "(k)(x)ubuntu-restricted-extras." If you wanted MP3s, Flash, and others to work, you had to search the repository for the required packages.

After using Linux for so long, entering a Windows environment not only feels weird but restrictive. I'm not sure if you'll ever get to this point, where Windows starts feeling inferior to Linux, but i wouldn't be surprised if you do get there. I'm sure having a broadband connection would have made your switch a breeze, but good thing you went with Ubuntu instead of a source-based distribution—a newbie's survival in a source-based distro is slim to none.

Remember the MP3 Codec? Well, I can't test that until tomorrow, I need to wait 9 hours for it to download. Sheesh!

Sounds like you found the restricted extras package.

I'm not finding the Ubuntu forums that helpful either. When I post a question, within 5 minutes, my post is about 4 pages deep never to be seen again. It's kind of like a lottery or gambling. If you get lucky, within 5 minutes you'll have half a dozen good and helpful replies, if you're unlucky, your post disappeared into oblivion before anyone had a chance to read it.

That's why i don't bother posting in the Ubuntu forums; i just Google everything. I've managed to find almost all solutions to my problems by searching for them in Google.

[The Simpleton 2]

Hey rob! Sorry to know that you had a bad start in the Ubuntu world. Actually it's a lot better than the other distributions coz they have a steep learning curve. Just hang in there and I'm sure you'll discover a lot of good things about Ubuntu.

 

The mp3 codec problem has a simple solution. Just open an mp3 file and it will say "error" but it also gives an option for "search for codec". Upon clicking this you will be taken to a window where the available codecs will be listed and you can simply select them and install with a few clicks - no need of typing in commands! Of course a more simpler solution would be to download vlc player for ubuntu as it plays everything!

 

As for the forums issue, well it does depend a lot on your time zone to be honest. I've never faced such a problem as yours because when I go to post there it's normally night time in the US so there's not much traffic from there, and my question gets answered pretty quickly. Anyway, truefusion's suggestion of googling your problem is a good one. It should fix most of your probs

 

I agree that it takes a little time to get used to Ubuntu. You just need to find ways to personalize it. For example, I use launchers for many common commands that I use. This saves a lot of time. Also I spend a little time in the Ubuntu forums, reading people's problems, coz it really helps to learn through problems. Over the time I'm sure you'll begin to appreciate Ubuntu's (and Linux's in general) true power!

[rob86 2]

I'm liking Ubuntu and in fact it introduced me to a world I was always hesitant to dive into. A lot of people I know - people who know little about computers - were trying out Ubuntu so I started to wonder what I was missing out on. Linux in general is very intimidating to a newbie. I keep mentioning Tiny Linux in my posts, well that was an old distro that I had to load onto a dozen floppy disks and it gave me a very bad first impression. I had to type everything in by hand to install and partition. This might seem crazy, but I assumed every Linux distribution was completely text based with an ASCII GUI. I was completely surprised when Ubuntu booted up and I saw a desktop and task bar, and even more surprised when the install wizard was even more simple and user friendly than Windows (That darn product code! I remember looking all over for it and then one day realizing it's always taped on the side or back of new PC!)I posted before about my problems with installation. I have a good idea what caused the installation error the first time now. I had imported my Documents, which I was forgot totaled about 12GB of High-Res photos and videos. I think my hard drive filled up before the installation completed. The second time I installed I didn't import everything. The install went okay, but when I tried to do some updates, it said my hard drive was full. I just barely fit Ubuntu on the drive, with mere megabytes left to spare. It's a good thing, because I might have given up after two install failures. Disk Usage Analyzer determined what was using up all the space and I deleted it all. Yes, I installed it on my 20GB drive and Yes, I should have listened that it wasn't big enough but it seemed convenient to use this drive for something.As for the modem issues, once you know what you're doing, it's not so hard to get things running. I was lucky that there was a webpage dedicated completely to Linux drivers for my modem so I didn't have to do much searching. It installs simply with a ./setup and after that I have to configure a dialer, wvdial (command line) or GnomePPP (gui). I also had to give dialout privileges to my user and add a few lines of text to some a couple of config files which I don't remember. The biggest problem is after updating to the newest kernel it won't keep my modem driver installed and I have to ./setup every time I boot up. I can live with that though. At first my modem was working a bit strange, disconnecting constantly and not downloading at it's top speed (a pitiful 2.5kb/s) but now it seems to work ok, I've been downloading some updates and... Funny you should mention VLC Simpleton (is that you 'ol kasperoony? It's weird seeing you as Simpleton!) as I was downloading it right now. 4 minutes remaining! I used it on Windows so I'm used to it.Now I wish I kept my older computers in working condition, I wouldn't mind trying out some of the other distros. Looks like I'm becoming a linux addict!

[jlhaslip 4]

I have found that the best method (for me) to update to various Linux versions is to order a CD as each version becomes released. It only takes a couple of weeks to receive the CD and installing a new version is made quite simple.

[The Simpleton 2]

I think most people share simlar experiences - getting irritated with Linux first and then getting addicted to it! It's not much due to Linux's greatness but due to Window's weakness. The latter is so full of bugs and viruses that after seeing an OS like Ubuntu, one can't help but get attracted to it. So slowly but surely you'll find yourself using it more and more

Funny you should mention VLC Simpleton (is that you 'ol kasperoony? It's weird seeing you as Simpleton!) as I was downloading it right now. 4 minutes remaining! I used it on Windows so I'm used to it.

Ubuntu may be great and all but its "Movie Player" is no match for VLC And yes it's me alright - just changed my name for a load of reasons.

I have found that the best method (for me) to update to various Linux versions is to order a CD as each version becomes released. It only takes a couple of weeks to receive the CD and installing a new version is made quite simple.

I do that too - it's much faster than trying to download the whole thing, and unlike Windows, you don't have to remove the old version to install the new one - it upgrades a few packages, removes old ones, puts in new ones, and the update is finished! That's another good thing about Ubuntu.

[Baniboy 3]

What do you mean 9 hours?When I first tried playing an MP3, it asked me to install a codec(it also showed a button to click for the install), so I did it and it took like under one minute with 1mbps connection. Looks like you've been downloading and installing the wrong stuff, rob.I simply don't use windows anymore, and it's easy since I don't play computer games, so there's no need for winblows.

[rob86 2]

It asked me to install a codec (or plugin as I think they called it) as well, but for some reason it could never find any. It was actually the restricted extras I ended up downloading, which did take at least 8 hours to download but contained more than just an mp3 decoder. Under perfect conditions (no web browsing or any other use of the internet) I download at almost exactly 10mB per hour. I'm wondering if there's ever an end to all the lib files I have to download or if it downloads them for every package.

Edited September 2, 2009 by rob86 (see edit history)

[truefusion 3]

It asked me to install a codec (or plugin as I think they called it) as well, but for some reason it could never find any. It was actually the restricted extras I ended up downloading, which did take at least 8 hours to download but contained more than just an mp3 decoder. Under perfect conditions (no web browsing or any other use of the internet) I download at almost exactly 1mB per hour. I'm wondering if there's ever an end to all the lib files I have to download or if it downloads them for every package.

Here's a tip for you if you ever need to reinstall the same system for whatever reason: All Debian packages you download from the repository get stored at /var/cache/apt/archives. If you burn a copy of the Debian packages found in there and on the new system you paste them in the same location, you shouldn't have to download them all over again to install them. Of course, you don't necessarily have to burn them to a CD if you have other back-up devices.

[rob86 2]

Good tip, thanks. The file system is a bit hard to navigate at first and I don't know where anything is, but I'm figuring it out slowly. I found out today that the command "gksudo nautilus" lets me access protected areas which is good to know. I installed some application (a download manager that was suggested on here) and I can't find it anymore. It's not in my list of applications and the file system is a jungle. Where does stuff get installed to? usr?

[inverse_bloom 0]

I have to admit this the first time I've found a post that gives a candid evaluation of beginning in Linux. I suppose Newb's keep quite till they earn a little expertise on the subject. When i first introduced my self to Linux i installed an old red hat version on a Pentium 1, it installed OK but for the version i had it booted into the command prompt, all i wanted to do was get some GUI action happening and searching for the command to start it. Help didn't help, only from talking to other people did i discover "startx" was the ticket. Up to that point i tried xstart, start, start Linux, etc... then reinstalled windows.Equally if you don't have an internet connection at all, Linux can give you a very hard time. Please don't get me wrong there's a lot to Linux that rocks, but the linux community needs to continue their efforts on improving user friendliness. Dependency's in some Linux versions can just **** you off. After saying that also, Ubuntu is a step in the right direction.

Edited September 3, 2009 by inverse_bloom (see edit history)

[truefusion 3]

I found out today that the command "gksudo nautilus" lets me access protected areas which is good to know.

gksudo, just like kdesu, is just a graphical frontend to sudo. If you're using the terminal to type out that command, you should just go with sudo instead. gksudo and kdesu is only useful if you don't have access to, don't want to use, or don't know how to use the terminal.

 

You should have received some kind of warning for entering the program with root privileges (perhaps a red bar on top of the file manager)—indeed, unless you know what you're doing, you can ruin your system without knowing it. Luckily for me, due to the fact that i can mount my second partition as /home, i don't need to worry about my personal files being deleted when i reinstall the system (which makes you feel a bit sorry for most Windows users). The system files can always be replaced and reinstalled—and with a broadband connection, downloading a gigabyte worth of files is not a problem.

 

Where does stuff get installed to? usr?

From my understanding, here are what these locations are basically for:

/etc — this location stores system-wide configuration files and probably other files.

/usr/(local/)bin — this location stores the binary executables of programs.

/usr/(local/)share — this location stores general information and other files, files like documentation, images, and other program-specific files.

/usr/(local/)include — this location stores all the header files for compiling programs.

/opt — i consider this location as "optional;" you can use it as a location to install programs there if you want instead of their standard locations.

/home — you should have already gotten to know about this location's purpose, but it stores personal user files.

 

During the compilation process, from the ./configure script you can choose where the program will be installed if it supports installation; otherwise it'll use other locations, mostly standard locations.

[rayzoredge 2]

In my eyes, Linux can just work... and if it doesn't, it's a complete nightmare for those that aren't computer literate... and even moreso when the fixes include changing code and introducing scripts. I never really knew how to do anything in Ubuntu... I only knew how to follow directions off of what people suggested on the forums. It's ridiculous how frustrating and time-consuming Linux can be, even with the simplest of things like trying to figure out how to change settings around. A lot of it involves jumping in and out of configuration files that, if you screw up, leave you hanging at the console prompt (xorg.conf, anyone?) or worse, leave you with an unbootable machine (but you would have to really screw up with grub.lst). I think that for the most part, Jaunty Jackalope has a pretty darn thing going for it as far as being able to install it on most machines without a hitch... but when you snag on a hitch, all bets are off on getting things to work without tearing your hair out. I think that Linux is user-friendly, but when it comes to doing something like playing with GRUB, fixing input devices, getting Ubuntu to recognize resolutions that it doesn't think your graphic card can support... things can get downright retarded and warrant multiple reinstallations of Ubuntu because you had no clue what you did or how to fix it.Like just now. I'm jumping back into using Ubuntu but on my work machine (since I sold my personal laptop to pay bills), and 9.04 works great on install... except for the fact that it treats the GeForce 440 graphics chip as a generic graphic solution. No acceleration, but I figured it was a simple fix...Boy was I stupid.With my history with getting my HP tc1100 tablet PC to work almost-completely with Ubuntu, giving up on my just-sold Dell Inspiron 1501 because I couldn't stream media to my Xbox 360 using fuppes or 360share or ANY 'nix program, and now this... hours of my life, gone and with nothing to show for it but some emotional scarring and the knowledge that I still don't know a damn thing more about Linux than I did a couple of years ago and still feeling limited with casual computer use since I can't WINE everything I want to play, and I don't feel like paying for Cedega. I spent the last 3 hours trying to get video acceleration to work, and I did... but reduced from my 1600x1200 resolution with a "generic" driver to a pidly 1024x768. The tutorial I was following showed that I could have my cake and eat it too, but this is me we're talking about. Of course following the steps to the letter wouldn't work for me. And I have no idea why, and that frustrates me most.Since I've given up on computer gaming since this work laptop has nothing as far as gaming power (1.8GHz P4, 1GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 440 Go), Ubuntu works perfectly with what I would want it to do: surf the Web and maybe do some productivity with it with OpenOffice. I hope that things are still on the road of getting better as far as being a true competitor to Windows on the consumer market, because as much as I love Ubuntu, Microsoft is dominating the market... and I hate the complexity of Linux, albeit the power is nice... only when you understand and know how to utilize it.

[The Simpleton 2]

Those are some true things you've said rayzoredge. I agree that the learning curve for Linux is indeed a bit . But Linux offers something that no other OS can - a quick way to repair! Imagine that you've done some tinkering with the Windows registry and something terribly went wrong. Worse still, you haven't backed up your data in any way! What would you do then? There are maybe two options - use the installation disc to run "Recovery console" or re-install the whole thing, both of which take a lot of time....

 

On the other hand, if you commit a mistake in Linux and the system becomes unusable, you have the option to use a Live CD/DVD which brings you straight to the desktop no matter how large your problem may be (unless your DVD drive isn't working! ) From there you can have access to all your data, backup what's needed and make any repairs using a shell. I've solved GRUB problems lots of times in this manner and it never took me more than 15-20 minutes to bring my system back to normal. This, I feel, is a very useful feature of Linux...