There Is No Hell! hell is a lie..

[audiovia 0]

The concept of hell that torture bad people till the end of time is just absurd. Harming us physically in an after live would not teach us a thing. When people get born again they just forget everything and start being bad again. We are just the beginning of human age and still learning. Cockroach has been here much longer than we do and they are still learning. Why punish the learners? anyway just a thought.

[salamangkero 0]

I know of some people who refute the idea of hell. For example, a friend of mine is a Jehovah's witness and, in their religion, there is no such thing as hell. It makes no sense, according to her, that sinful people, would go to a special place where they shall be tormented by devils when they're both on the same side!

Actually, this is a rather tricky matter. If we claim that there is no such place as hell based on empirical evidence, does it also follow that there is no heaven either?

I'd also like to point out that, just because something does not make sense, does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist. For example, m'learned friend pointed out that it does not make sense to send sinners to a place where they will be tortured by their allies. Likewise, there is no sense in attempting the total genocide of certain religious groups, like Jews, for example, yet the holocaust happened, didn't it? Reality does not always have to make sense. Similarly, just because...

The concept of hell that torture bad people till the end of time is just absurd

...does not necessarily mean that hell does not exist.

When people get born again they just forget everything and start being bad again.

The veracity of the above statement is also subject to conjecture and is as proven as the existence of hell... or heaven, for that matter

[audiovia 0]

hmm... i totally agree with 'salamangkero' you for that matter, it doesn't have to make sense to exist.I just think to myself i were God and i created human being to have freewill and then punish them for what they do, what kind of a silly God i would be. God who is waiting to slap his own children for their freewill that God himself gave us the power in the first place.Oh and why there are more and more lucky people get born everywhere in every part of the world while there are more people do bad things to each other and fail to do what god wants even more these days, aren't we suppose to be in hell? I don't think i was a perfect person every time i born. Why aren't people who fail to do good stay in hell.Why more people or humans allow to be born to do bad thing again and again. if hell existed then What hell is doing is not working at all. I also just read about what Buddha said that we are all one thing and there's no soul and non-self. We are waves of one ocean. When the Big Bang went Bang! there was only a one thing and we are still that one thing. just a thought. again.

[KansukeKojima 0]

I just think to myself i were God and i created human being to have freewill and then punish them for what they do, what kind of a silly God i would be. God who is waiting to slap his own children for their freewill that God himself gave us the power in the first place.

Alright, time for yet another debate...

I'd like to point out, that the reason why we were created was so that we can worship God, and love Him. If God didn't give us free will, that love and worship is really quite meaningless, and there would be no point to it.

Also, as you said "... his own children...".
Every person on this earth is not a child of God. The vast majority of people do not follow Him. They are rebellious and they rightly deserve Hell for it. In fact everyone on this planet deserves Hell, even those who do follow Him. However, He has shown those who do follow Him grace, and they will not end up in Hell.

[truefusion 3]

The concept of hell that torture bad people till the end of time is just absurd. Harming us physically in an after live would not teach us a thing. When people get born again they just forget everything and start being bad again. We are just the beginning of human age and still learning. Cockroach has been here much longer than we do and they are still learning. Why punish the learners? anyway just a thought.

Your use of "born again" implies reincarnation. But your use of the word "God" in your later quotes implies the Christian God, because you state "his children." You seem to be talking about two different areas that are totally separate. There is no human reincarnation in Christianity. Reincarnation, in the sense of Buddhism, if i remember correctly, is a constant loop that occurs, which would mean a lack of hell.

I just think to myself i were God and i created human being to have freewill and then punish them for what they do, what kind of a silly God i would be. God who is waiting to slap his own children for their freewill that God himself gave us the power in the first place.

Did your parents ever discipline you whenever you did something they didn't like? If so, that would mean by your own statement that your parents are silly.

[1]Oh and why there are more and more lucky people get born everywhere in every part of the world while there are more people do bad things to each other and fail to do what god wants even more these days, aren't we suppose to be in hell? I don't think i was a perfect person every time i born. Why aren't people who fail to do good stay in hell.
[2]Why more people or humans allow to be born to do bad thing again and again. if hell existed then What hell is doing is not working at all.

[1] You're confusing religions again. You are only born once, not every time after you die. If you take on the view of reincarnation, then of course you're not going to be in hell. But this is the Christian God we're talking about, so you can't include anything like that in your judgment.

[2] They're not the same people and those that die don't immediately go straight to hell. You seem to be assuming a lot of things due to considering more than one religion as if they were one.

When the Big Bang went Bang! there was only a one thing and we are still that one thing.

Out of curiosity, what was this "only thing"?

[Ramwhad 0]

The concept of hell that torture bad people till the end of time is just absurd. Harming us physically in an after live would not teach us a thing. When people get born again they just forget everything and start being bad again. We are just the beginning of human age and still learning. Cockroach has been here much longer than we do and they are still learning. Why punish the learners? anyway just a thought.

The concept of hell is not an implication that an individual is to be physically harmed in the after life. To clear up some a quite widely believed misconception, hell is not a fiery place full of flying demons with pitchforks constantly prodding you and wipping people. Hell is a place that is to face a person of evil and sin in a manner that confronts them with their biggest fear and make them realize every instant they're their the wrong that they have committed. i.e. in Greek mythology the story of Sisyphus is that he believed that he was so cunning that he could out smart the all of the gods. As punishment he was forced to roll a boulder up a hill for the rest of eternity. But every time the boulder would be only a fraction away from the very top, it would roll down again and he would be forced to start over again.
Now, that was just a shortened version of the story, but the point is that hell is meant to make those who have done wrong be confronted with their own wrong doing. People aren't just tortured at random the exact same way for different crimes.

And unfortunately the concept of reincarnation, doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. This is because, there is more life on earth now than ever before there are more people, plants, bugs, life in general. So how did all of this new life get there if reincarnation was true.

I just read some of the other responses and must say that I think I am the most educated one here when it comes to the concept of God, Gods, religions, doctrines, and beliefs in general. There was a comment saying that the person didn't think that they were "born perfect" and that person would be correct. That is why there is such a thing call, Original Sin. That is the belief that we are all born in a sin and born into a world of sin.

Also if anyone doesn't believe in God then here is something to think about. Scientist don't believe that the world was created in seven days. But how long is a day to an immortal being? Also, more and more scientists are finally agreeing that there has to be a God of some sort. The reason being is simply this, "You can't get something from nothing." So what doest this mean? This means that, Something must have always been, what that something was, is, and forever will be is, GOD. If I offended anyone in the preceeding, I am truly sorry. This was a combination of my knowledge and my beliefs, and we are all entitled to our own beliefs. And my beliefs say that if you don't think that there is a God than you are going to hell. But, don't worry if you are an atheist, than its ok, because there is no hell right?!?

[Watermonkey 0]

Your use of "born again" implies reincarnation. But your use of the word "God" in your later quotes implies the Christian God, because you state "his children." You seem to be talking about two different areas that are totally separate. There is no human reincarnation in Christianity. Reincarnation, in the sense of Buddhism, if i remember correctly, is a constant loop that occurs, which would mean a lack of hell.

Born Again in the context presented:

In Christianity, the terms born again, regenerated or transformed are synonymous with spiritual rebirth i.e. salvation. It means having a personal faith in Jesus Christ. The term is most frequently used by the Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Pentecostal and some Mainline branches of Protestant Christianity. It is sometimes associated with non-denominational individuals, groups and churches.

This, according to a Wiki article. Wiki is your friend. I'm surprised you haven't heard of this term. It's all the rage here in the states. I can only assume it's taken fire and spread out throughout the world. As for hell...

 

In Sumerian Mythos Enki was the eldest (though illegitimate) son of the Father of the gods, AN or Anu, and was quite rebellious in nature, partially because he was in competition for fraternal affection with his half-brother, Enlil, the first legitimate son of Anu. When a slave race was called for, according to archaeologists and other scholars, it was Enki who was called upon to direct the genealogical science that finally created the slave race, human, to work in the mines in Africa. When the gods were infatuated with the daughters of man and things were just getting way out of control, the gods decided to not warn their creation of the impending deluge about to sweep over the lands, but Enki, in love with his creation, sent to "Noah", plans to build a submersible vessel capable of withstanding the calamity and contained therein was enough human genetic material and the DNA of all the other life on Earth, to re-start the whole thing again. The counsel wasn't too pleased that Enki had gone behind their backs and saved his creation but they forgave him his trespass because they, too, loved humanity. But before this, Enki had given to The Adam and The Eve the "forbidden knowledge" of the tree of life thereby and thereafter they were able to procreate without the aid of the Annunaki from whose labs they were born. Basically, Enki made his creation independent of their gods and this angered the counsel. After several of these maverick trespasses against the counsel, they finally voted to leave Enki stuck here on this miserable planet, to rule the world below or to become the ruler of the damned. Thus Enki became what we know today as Lucifer, though, he's long since died (it's estimated that his birth is somewhere around 500,000 Earth years ago), his offspring are alive and well, real, and capable of avenging their ancestor's eternal excommunication from his family of gods. And, no, I'm not making all this up. Go research Sumerian and Babylonian history and folklore. Hell, in antiquated language, means "down under". This could mean Australia ( Just kidding), any and all points south of the equator, or could refer to the entire planet under which the moon circles. It's a matter of interpretation.

 

Read, William Bramley's The Gods of Eden for further enlightenment. Always seek the light.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Watermonkey (see edit history)

[audiovia 0]

The concept of hell is not an implication that an individual is to be physically harmed in the after life. To clear up some a quite widely believed misconception, hell is not a fiery place full of flying demons with pitchforks constantly prodding you and wipping people. Hell is a place that is to face a person of evil and sin in a manner that confronts them with their biggest fear and make them realize every instant they're their the wrong that they have committed. i.e. in Greek mythology the story of Sisyphus is that he believed that he was so cunning that he could out smart the all of the gods. As punishment he was forced to roll a boulder up a hill for the rest of eternity. But every time the boulder would be only a fraction away from the very top, it would roll down again and he would be forced to start over again. Now, that was just a shortened version of the story, but the point is that hell is meant to make those who have done wrong be confronted with their own wrong doing. People aren't just tortured at random the exact same way for different crimes.

And unfortunately the concept of reincarnation, doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. This is because, there is more life on earth now than ever before there are more people, plants, bugs, life in general. So how did all of this new life get there if reincarnation was true.

I just read some of the other responses and must say that I think I am the most educated one here when it comes to the concept of God, Gods, religions, doctrines, and beliefs in general. There was a comment saying that the person didn't think that they were "born perfect" and that person would be correct. That is why there is such a thing call, Original Sin. That is the belief that we are all born in a sin and born into a world of sin.

Also if anyone doesn't believe in God then here is something to think about. Scientist don't believe that the world was created in seven days. But how long is a day to an immortal being? Also, more and more scientists are finally agreeing that there has to be a God of some sort. The reason being is simply this, "You can't get something from nothing." So what doest this mean? This means that, Something must have always been, what that something was, is, and forever will be is, GOD. If I offended anyone in the preceeding, I am truly sorry. This was a combination of my knowledge and my beliefs, and we are all entitled to our own beliefs. And my beliefs say that if you don't think that there is a God than you are going to hell. But, don't worry if you are an atheist, than its ok, because there is no hell right?!?

I see what you are getting at, and i totally do believe in God too. I was asked once if i see a Ferrari would i believe it was build by nature (many say they wouldn't of course) and why would they or i believe that a human which is much more or millions time more sophisticated than a Ferrari would be made by nature at all. just another thought.

[truefusion 3]

The concept of hell is not an implication that an individual is to be physically harmed in the after life. To clear up some a quite widely believed misconception, hell is not a fiery place full of flying demons with pitchforks constantly prodding you and wipping people. Hell is a place that is to face a person of evil and sin in a manner that confronts them with their biggest fear and make them realize every instant they're their the wrong that they have committed. i.e. in Greek mythology the story of Sisyphus is that he believed that he was so cunning that he could out smart the all of the gods. As punishment he was forced to roll a boulder up a hill for the rest of eternity. But every time the boulder would be only a fraction away from the very top, it would roll down again and he would be forced to start over again.

Now, that was just a shortened version of the story, but the point is that hell is meant to make those who have done wrong be confronted with their own wrong doing. People aren't just tortured at random the exact same way for different crimes.

From where are your sources? Hell is a fiery place as indicated by the following verses: Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:15. It is true that you are not tortured by demons and evil spiritual beings (that would be silly; demons have to be punished too! Revelation 20:10), but you are tortured by the angels that were assigned by God. And, yes, you will be given unbearable tasks for each sin you've committed along with the punishment given by the angels, but it's not for the sake of learning as you say. According to the information provided for the Last Day in the Bible, that is when you are confronted with everything you've done and told what exactly it is you did wrong, not in hell. Hell is not a place for learning through punishment—you had all the time to learn in your previous life. "Learning" here implies something similar to purgatory—the verses used for proof for purgatory can be taken more than one way, therefore making it uncertain on whether purgatory is true or not. Also, people in hell will just be increasing in hatred towards God because of their infliction, as implied by "gnashing of teeth." Also, it should be obvious that by just being marked for hell is more than enough proof that you've committed grievous sins in your previous life.

 

And unfortunately the concept of reincarnation, doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. This is because, there is more life on earth now than ever before there are more people, plants, bugs, life in general. So how did all of this new life get there if reincarnation was true.

That doesn't do away with reincarnation, it could just be that you assumed something about reincarnation that isn't true. Though, i do wonder what would happen to the spirits that are still on the lowest level (which should be a good majority of the population) when this universe goes "poof!"

 

[1]I just read some of the other responses and must say that I think I am the most educated one here when it comes to the [2]concept of God, Gods, religions, doctrines, and beliefs in general. [3]There was a comment saying that the person didn't think that they were "born perfect" and that person would be correct. That is why there is such a thing call, Original Sin. That is the belief that we are all born in a sin and born into a world of sin.

[1] You should consider researching more.

[2] If you believe in it, then it's not a concept.

[3] There are two reasons on why a person is not born perfect: 1. God saw His creation to be (very) good (Genesis 1:31), not perfect. 2. As you say, people are born into a world of sin; we're not born bearing sin but into a sinful world.

 

Born Again in the context presented: [...]

 

This, according to a Wiki article. Wiki is your friend. I'm surprised you haven't heard of this term.

You quote me, but i'm not sure if you're explaining what "born again" means to me or to the topic starter. Could you clarify?

[audiovia 0]

From where are your sources? Hell is a fiery place as indicated by the following verses: Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:15. It is true that you are not tortured by demons and evil spiritual beings (that would be silly; demons have to be punished too! Revelation 20:10), but you are tortured by the angels that were assigned by God. And, yes, you will be given unbearable tasks for each sin you've committed along with the punishment given by the angels, but it's not for the sake of learning as you say. According to the information provided for the Last Day in the Bible, that is when you are confronted with everything you've done and told what exactly it is you did wrong, not in hell. Hell is not a place for learning through punishmentyou had all the time to learn in your previous life. "Learning" here implies something similar to purgatorythe verses used for proof for purgatory can be taken more than one way, therefore making it uncertain on whether purgatory is true or not. Also, people in hell will just be increasing in hatred towards God because of their infliction, as implied by "gnashing of teeth." Also, it should be obvious that by just being marked for hell is more than enough proof that you've committed grievous sins in your previous life.

That doesn't do away with reincarnation, it could just be that you assumed something about reincarnation that isn't true. Though, i do wonder what would happen to the spirits that are still on the lowest level (which should be a good majority of the population) when this universe goes "poof!"

[1] You should consider researching more.

[2] If you believe in it, then it's not a concept.

[3] There are two reasons on why a person is not born perfect: 1. God saw His creation to be (very) good (Genesis 1:31), not perfect. 2. As you say, people are born into a world of sin; we're not born bearing sin but into a sinful world.

You quote me, but i'm not sure if you're explaining what "born again" means to me or to the topic starter. Could you clarify?

Still...nobody has proof that eveything the bible says is true. I don't take Bible seriously anymore. I read the first part and God is a very angry God and always can't make up his mind. And the second part was written by some monk who wasn't even sure or know at all when jesus was born. sorry to say this but this is how i feel after been reading the bible for about 2 years before go to bed everynight.

[chriscannon 0]

Still...nobody has proof that eveything the bible says is true. I don't take Bible seriously anymore. I read the first part and God is a very angry God and always can't make up his mind. And the second part was written by some monk who wasn't even sure or know at all when jesus was born. sorry to say this but this is how i feel after been reading the bible for about 2 years before go to bed everynight.

It is pretty obvious that you dont take the bible seriously... But once again you are wrong on numerous occasions.

"God cant make up his mind..." I dont know where you are coming from with this, but maybe it was when the flood happened? God created us to worship him, we sinned, and started fallign fom God. It got so bad that only one person was left in the world who believed in him, Noah. Since creation until this point there was water surrounding the earth, God released that water and it fell to earth as the flood. Afterwords God says he will never destroy us again, and gives us the rainbow as a symbol of him promise. It could also be explained that since there was water surrounding the earth before, the atmosphere would be different, along with the ozone, now that their isnt that layer of water, the refraction of light that is a rainbow can now occur. I dont think it is as simple as He cant make up His mind. Though I doubt thats even the case.

A lot of the new testiment was writing by jesus' apostles. Not some random monk... You should google search the history of the bible, the people who made the bible were not the people who wrote it. Also everything in the bible is influenced by God, not physically written by him as it appears you believe in your third sentence.

With what you have been saying here, I refuse to believe you read the bible every night for 2 years, not even every other night. If you have been reading it as often as you say, you arent paying much attention.

[Janissary 0]

I liked what Ramwhad said

... Hell is a place that is to face a person of evil and sin in a manner that confronts them with their biggest fear and make them realize every instant they're their the wrong that they have committed...

We muslims believe in afterlife we will be qustioned by angels and if we try to reject our evil doings, they will show us proofs. Proofs that are so strong, you have admit. Then evil dudes will sufer for every suffering they casue in their life time. Hmm, I realized I dont know much about hell or heaven. I should re-read my book. Edited May 27, 2008 by Janissary (see edit history)

[kobra500 1]

I'd like to point out, that the reason why we were created was so that we can worship God, and love Him. If God didn't give us free will, that love and worship is really quite meaningless, and there would be no point to it.

Should I kill myself now then? I never new God was such an attention seeker, couldn't he have created us to, I don't know...
... Live? Whats the point of being created to worship God, why does he need to be worshipped, what is he worried that he isn't likable and needs people to tell him he's alright. Sorry if that seems harsh but that is the meaning of life? what a waste of being born in the first place if it is. Anyway who is god to tell me what I can and can't do, why should it be up to him. He sounds power hungry to me. Again not being purposefully harsh though I'm sure the sarcasm doesn't help

No one learns through punishment, they just do it and get even worse because there being punished, they only pretend to have learnt there lesson to get out of it.

and Again I make the point, god was thought up thousands of years ago by people who thought him up because they couldn't explain things or even guess at a answer based on logic. They wanted to get out of death, wanted to know how they got here but without science could not explain it.

[KansukeKojima 0]

Should I kill myself now then? I never new God was such an attention seeker, couldn't he have created us to, I don't know...

... Live? Whats the point of being created to worship God, why does he need to be worshipped, what is he worried that he isn't likable and needs people to tell him he's alright. Sorry if that seems harsh but that is the meaning of life? what a waste of being born in the first place if it is. Anyway who is god to tell me what I can and can't do, why should it be up to him. He sounds power hungry to me. Again not being purposefully harsh though I'm sure the sarcasm doesn't help

Haha, well I can see what you are saying, it definitely sounds odd to us. However, you must remember that God is not human. He is perfect, and therefore he has every right to seek that attention. No, you shouldn't just kill yourself. And if you want to live your life how you want, go for it... That is why God gave us free will.

 

Also, I'd like to mention that God does not need us to worship Him. Before He created anything, He was perfectly fulfilled just by... existing.

 

I guess the best way to say why He created us would be that: maybe one day He just thought "Wouldn't it be cool to share my love and awesomeness with something". Of course, I can't claim that He actually said/thought that... but its just a way of explaining it.

 

Lol, I'll admit, it kind of sounds weird... but... yeah... lol

[truefusion 3]

[1]I never new God was such an attention seeker, [2]couldn't he have created us to, I don't know... Live? [...] [3]what is he worried that he isn't likable and needs people to tell him he's alright. [...] [4]that is the meaning of life? [5] Anyway who is god to tell me what I can and can't do, why should it be up to him. [...]

 

[6:1]...god was thought up thousands of years ago by people who thought him up [6:2]because they couldn't explain things or even guess at a answer based on logic. [6:3]They wanted to get out of death, [6:4]wanted to know how they got here but without science could not explain it.

[1] Find me one verse that says to worship Him, or face eternal condemnation.

[2] Who says He didn't?

[3] What does God have to worry about?

[4] The meaning of life is for us to experience God the way He wanted us to—and that can be in many ways. (You could easily obtain this fact from Genesis with a little Bible study.)

[5] ! Did you forget He's God, the Most High (i.e. the highest authority to ever exist), the One that gave you life?

 

[6:1] What does nothing output except nothing? Also, that which comes to an end cannot always exist.

[6:2] And what are these things?

[6:3] By admitting that death will come to them? (Which they have.)

[6:4] Science can never prove how matter came into existence—it's all faith. Also, any attempt to explain it may mean excluding a certain point in time, which ruins the whole purpose of even trying to explain it. One more thing: The Bible makes many statements that which science later verified as true. Therefore, they were fully capable of explaining things correctly without science (indeed, they had God).

 

P.S. Excluding my response in #5, no emotions were attached to anything i said above.