Best Goverment System An Utopia of mine

[A200 0]

Why doesn't the world just become a government where we have no guns and no military or anything... have it so no country has arms then the world will be happy

[Mermaid711 0]

Actully Mike, voting doesnt make you "Nobody rules me"

Actually, no, but that's not what he's saying. Us Americans are ruled under the ideals that the only person who rules the people, are the people.

 

@Mermaid:

"...What are you going to do with the other millions of children that aren't selected to be taught the government ways?..."

I dont understand, what about them?

 

What are you going to do with them? You can't just abandon them.

 

"...what would happen if they got a really corrupt person in there..."

That's why you are raising only "good" ones from childhood and that's why there isnt only one person in rule but a closed parlement.

But then they're not leaders. And you might teach them the ways, teach them to be good, but you can't always weed out the bad people. Someone who comes across as a good person can turn out to be an advocate of the devil.

 

And I suggest you get familiar with quote tags. You're going to need them.

[Janissary 0]

What are you going to do with them? You can't just abandon them.

I think you misunderstood me completly on that subject. This idea of mine wont change how orphans are treated. You are just giving special education to special people.

 

But then they're not leaders.

You meant you cant train yourself to be a leader, you born leader kinda thing?

 

you might teach them the ways, teach them to be good, but you can't always weed out the bad people. Someone who comes across as a good person can turn out to be an advocate of the devil.

People dont born good or bad. Their environment and experinces make them. A 10 years old child can only be bad if he/she experinced some bad, tramatic events. Thats why you're testing their mental health. By the way, Im repeating myself... Yes, humans are complex, yes we cant see right through them. But you are dividing power among hundreds of people who are raised in a controled environment.

 

In my opinion... if this idea is wanted to set in motion, the biggest problem would be finding good teachers. The people who starts the revolution should be saints becasue their "good" will be taught on those children. This is difficult but not impossible.

 

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By the way, as I said in "democracy perfect?" topic. Democracy is not about freedom, it's about safety. Demoracracy hampers the decision progres thus making it slow and sometimes resulting in lousy decisions but in return it gives safety from ambition of humans becasue the power is been dividing among thousands.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Janissary (see edit history)

[Mermaid711 0]

I think you misunderstood me completly on that subject. This idea of mine wont change how orphans are treated. You are just giving special education to special people.

Which, is descrimination, and unconstitutional. What if a certain kid's parent flips out over that kind of thing, that their child wasn't chosen for the "special education"?

 

You meant you cant train yourself to be a leader, you born leader kinda thing?

Yes. You were either born a leader or a follower. You can train a follower to become a leader all you want, but that doesn't make them a leader. That makes them a follower of the leader's ways.

 

People dont born good or bad. Their environment and experinces make them. A 10 years old child can only be bad if he/she experinced some bad, tramatic events. Thats why you're testing their mental health. By the way, Im repeating myself... Yes, humans are complex, yes we cant see right through them. But you are dividing power among hundreds of people who are raised in a controled environment.

You, sir, have crappy grammar. And, no, that is not true. People who were destined to be criminals have been scientifically proven to have a difference in their grey matter in their brains. And brain washing is just cruel. The people of the society aren't really people if they can't think freely. And it doesn't matter if you DO devide the power among hundreds of people if they all were brain washed to think the same way. What are you smoking?

 

In my opinion... if this idea is wanted to set in motion, the biggest problem would be finding good teachers. The people who starts the revolution should be saints becasue their "good" will be taught on those children. This is difficult but not impossible. By the way, as I said in "democracy perfect?" topic. Democracy is not about freedom, it's about safety. Demoracracy hampers the decision progres thus making it slow and sometimes resulting in lousy decisions but in return it gives safety from ambition of humans becasue the power is been dividing among thousands.

Yes, but that's in your opinion, which from this standpoint seems corrupted. And there aren't any saints that are currently alive, and it would take hundreds if not thousands of years, because there will always be people who want to rebel. And what? Democracy isn't about freedom?! And no, it does not make it slow, it does not hamper the decision process. Democracy is about what the people want. And what the people want is best. Sure the people screw up sometimes, but have you noticed that democratic countries' constitiutions last alot longer? I live in America, and our's is the oldest functioning constitution.

 

You sir, have no idea what you are talking about. So, I hate to be unfriendly (well okay that's a lie) but I suggest you read up on the facts first.

[Janissary 0]

Which, is descrimination, and unconstitutional. What if a certain kid's parent flips out over that kind of thing, that their child wasn't chosen for the "special education"?

I really cant understand you here. "Special treatment for special person" thingy is always here. Smart kids recieve schoolarship, talented kids drafted in soccer teams. Handicap people recieve parking lots. Why are you getting angry for my plan to educate smart/talented people differently?

 

By the way... in my view, you cant be a good governor if you have family tides. Because sooner or later your family is going to ask for special treament, will want from their relative in power to bend rules for his/her family. A time would come, the good of family can override the good of people.

That reasoning is one of my starting point. So I thought to myself, governor should be free of these chains. Therefore, I chose abondon kids to be governor.

 

Do a parent have right to get angry if their child cannot enter NBA because he/she lacks the requirements?

 

Yes. You were either born a leader or a follower. You can train a follower to become a leader all you want, but that doesn't make them a leader. That makes them a follower of the leader's ways.

Well, I believe differently. The environment is more important than DNA for developing personality. And being a leader of course a good part of being a ruler but not the most important one. Hitler was a good leader but a bad governor. Being a leader can get you to chair. But as you know in my idea, you dont need to convince anyone to that you are a good ruler.

This is my other reasoning. Current political leaders are obligated to stay in good grace of both public and other power centers that brings the leader to there. So sometimes leaders act populist, take actions which bring votes in short terms but brings bad things in long term or say "yes" to their financial supportes despite the good of people. By drafting kids into the governor class, you are freeing a ruler of these chains.

 

You, sir, have crappy grammar.

I apologize for my grammer but please remember Im debating in a foreign language.

 

People who were destined to be criminals have been scientifically proven to have a difference in their grey matter in their brains.

I didnt know that. But that's better, so science can tell bad apples. The chances of chosing wrong kid is reduced.

 

And brain washing is just cruel.

You may be right. But we are being brainwashed everyday. While we are being raised, definition of being a boy and a girl are printing in us. We buy our daughters barbies, toy make ups, ovens while buying our sons guns and cowboy hats. We teach them things like "boys dont cry" Another brainwashing is commercials, every product is loaded with a false identity. They are trying to make you believe if you dont buy those shoes, you dont belong in shoes' made-up social class. And in school, in history lessons you are brainwashed to love your country. You are American, in your mind USA is the best place on Earth. Im a Turk, in my mind Turkey is the best place in Earth. Because we're brainwashed. You were raised by American heroic tales, I were raised by Turkish heroic tales.

 

By the way, I admit these examples dont show brainwashing is good but I say it can be acceptable. Is this make me evil, maybe... maybe not.

 

My reasoning for a completly different education for governor is:

a regular human is full of flaws to be ruler so i thought if some nations are succeed to breed soldier class (or insanly self-controled monks) why we cant train a governer class.

 

Yes, but that's in your opinion, which from this standpoint seems corrupted. And there aren't any saints that are currently alive, and it would take hundreds if not thousands of years, because there will always be people who want to rebel. And what? Democracy isn't about freedom?! And no, it does not make it slow, it does not hamper the decision process. Democracy is about what the people want. And what the people want is best. Sure the people screw up sometimes, but have you noticed that democratic countries' constitiutions last alot longer? I live in America, and our's is the oldest functioning constitution.

I didnt that say there're saints every I admited how it would be difficult to give this idea a start then I told the reasons. I agreed with you on that one but you are saying you are disagree?!

 

By the way, Im taking back my word "Democracy isn't about freedom but safety" because I noticed those are same thing. Safety of knowing noone can take your property, safety of knowing noone can put you on jail etc.

 

But please compare the decision making progress of a dictator and a parliament? Which one is faster? Caution, I dont say better here but saying faster.

Now compare the decision speed of 1 person to 100 people to 1000 people to 10000. Caution, I dont say we should be ruled by one man, that would be a gamble.

 

Masses arent good for giving the best decision, dont you agree? So then democary is about sacrifing effiency for security.

 

By the way, most of the voters dont give a damn about politics but just want to live their life. And you can find many voters who voted for stupid reasons, reasons behind politics. Caution, I dont say we should give up democary. As I said before, its the most secure goverment.

 

What Im saying is if we manage to get this idea in motion. I believe it would be better than any other goverment. But as I said before Im full awere how difficult it's to get started. So that's why the topic is "utopia"

 

Thank you for reading, and it's Ok. You dont need to like me. This thread helped me, I found holes and fixed it (at least in my eye

 

By the way, I've discused this idea with someother people too. So far only 2 people agreed with me. (One of them is imagining about resurrecting Ataturk and giving him absolute power, other one is wishing a more evoled and civilized alien ruler for humans) Most strong arguments against me adriantc's "what if these people begin to think themself better than society" and one of my friend's "How can define good education They will be flawed as their teacher"

Edited June 2, 2008 by Janissary (see edit history)

[Okara KAmi 0]

Janissary it seems you have two terms confused. There is a difference between perfection (Utopia) and control.The system you propose where you have an elitist government that tries to avoid corruption and governs its people has nothing to do with perfection. Why? No one would be truly happy. Sure you could use manipulation to brainwash others into believing that they are content but true happiness comes from the inside. What you establish is power and consistency.Power and consistency are great, everyone would want the eternal stability of a highly educated group that makes all the important decisions. BUT, in the end what's the point? If people lose touch of what they want and become machines in what is pre-modelled for them as a perfect society, then what part of this Utopia retains its humanity?My opinion is this is just a compilation of all the totalitarian warning novels out there like 1984 and Brave New World.Here's the thing about perfect societies, the word perfection is defined by someone or some group, now this group is after all, only a group.No matter how hard you try there will always be insurgence here and low approval rates of the government. What governments all over the world have now is better than this in terms of Utopia and its pursuit because at least in our sane world, we have opportunity and voice. Idk, maybe I'm missing something but this is more of a: Way to Control Everyone Successfully, rather than Perfect Country kind of thing.

[Janissary 0]

@ Okara KAmi

 

But I never said this "perfect" system will make everyone happy. After all criminals or selfish people will be extremly unhappy under that rule. By the way, Im not suggesting a perfect world where every where there is a rainbow. Im talking about governer system which is balanced well enough to solve all the solve-able problems.

 

But then again you have a point. Those eldars council, in their elite education... they may failed to understand some human weakness and may ban cigarettes. But then again with their genius minds, they may see banning cigarettes all together can lead to black markets and disorder so who knows they may start a education plan which will take two generation to complete and succesfully get rid of cigarettes.

 

After all hollywood brainwashed our generation with cool actors smooking after and while doing really cool stuff. (Luckly smooking propaganda mostly stoped now)

 

I want to say again: by discussion I saw the flaw in my perfect system. I now believe this system can only last 300-400 years before gets corrupted. Becasue despite to all mesaruments the elite ruling class eventually is going to think themself apart from the society. And I think corruption will take place as a mother being over protective: still good in her heart, doing everything for her children but yet only hurting them.

[networker 0]

I think your idea is ridiculous.You'd justbe creating an elitist system and where there iselitism there is incredible corruption.Just look at nazi germany. The best form of government wouldbe a socialist one.Human kind just aren't capable of it nowsince we aren't capable of being fair.It was attempted in Communist China andRussia. One way in which we could try ruling ourselves is to allow onlywomen leaders. They have the basic nurturing instinct that just aren'tfound in power hungry males. This may sound like a crass idea to some,but we've tried every other which way,so maybe we should give this one a shot.

[stopthewarm 0]

I don't understand... Your idea is to build a ruling elite, born and bread for one reason - to rule! So basically that isn't a democracy since they are not chosen by the people from the people. But although not a democracy you still keep a parliament (or some form of it). I fail to see what it's is purpose. What I understand is that the main criteria for being part of that ruling elite is to be smart. Why not make it a dictatorship, which is far more efficient then democracy. The only disadvantage of a dictatorship is that is can easily become a tyranny (a thing that happened may times in history). But since you consider that elite to be the absolute best people to rule there is no reason for why you should not entrust them with absolute power? Does my thinking have a flaw?

Anyone who gets power in his hand has to become tyranny some point or other unless he has been taught with moral values and went through miseries etc.Actually. You say that you will make people totally freed of wordly desires such as wealth and sex. But do you think that is possible. IS it rreall ypossible with humans. I think now. Well you could always let them go thorugh normal schoolong and not training like yours. But you should let them get moral values.

[traff2009 0]

Somehow I don't think your idea will fly. For one, for every government action, there will always be winners and losers. The losers of any government action (doesn't matter who) will be angry, and if some undemocratically out-of-touch leaders are in charge, it won't be too hard to run a smear campaign against them. Pretty soon militia groups (think NRA types) will rise up and cook up conspiracy theories (it wouldn't be a hard sell). Think about it, the leaders are out-of-touch on how people interact with one another, with horrible social skills, so their PR would be bad. Somehow I don't think the public would care too much being ruled by a class of Aspies-- especially the losers of their policy.Theres also the issue of unintended consequences. What kind of a leader would someone raised to be excessively civicly proud and take no pleasures. A society with zero tolerance towards corruption might seem good at first, until you realize that the penatly for stealing a bubble gum from a gas station is death.

[Alex Cicala 0]

Sounds like an exclusive government system. Which is bad. Anyway the government where I live is as good as it gets. [which is actually bad]Anyway One person cannot decide on a government system, you need a group of people that have concluding/similar idea that mesh together, they need to agree with each other and they cannot be higher than the people. If a member of that government commited crime, they would cop harsher penalties than the people. Execution as a penalty is a NO, NO. Killing is wrong even if the convicted has killed. He is better off in a Cell for the rest of there lives, with no appeal.Thats what I see as a government system.

[triplebtalk 0]

Your idea is disgusting, it completely degrade people and puts them into pointless class systems. Why would anyone help them with that revolution, I think those 1000 people would be on their own, no "ordinary" citizen would support it.Even if something as ludicrous as this happened, I bet that people would seek political asylum, after all, Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[Alex Cicala 0]

Your idea is disgusting, it completely degrade people and puts them into pointless class systems. Why would anyone help them with that revolution, I think those 1000 people would be on their own, no "ordinary" citizen would support it.
Even if something as ludicrous as this happened, I bet that people would seek political asylum, after all, Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I agree completely with that, That government system is similar to something that's communist or similar to the caste system in medieval times. One question to the topic op, Do you want to be a slave to your government?

What do you think about the government system in Australia "triplebtalk"?

[triplebtalk 0]

The government in Australia is fairly good in the scheme of things. We have an idiot Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, but other wise, all is good. The government treats the people like people and it does its best not to degrade social classes (call me a capitalist, but I think that if a political system as suggested was carried out, it would be a disaster, if you are rich, good on you, you have that right, if you are poor, I think the government should support, and then lead the lower class back into the work force), and the Prime Minister is a very intelligent man, just remember that the leader is only as good as his ministers.

[jaychant 0]

If there was a true Communist society, that society would prosper, and everyone who lived there would be happy. Sadly, though, true Communism can't exist, so the best kind of society is a capitalist, democratic one like ours.