Isreal Steps Up Lebanese Strikes

[Voidless_Shadows 0]

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/The Israelis concentrated on the southern suburbs of the city, known to be a stronghold of Hezbollah militants.

The offensive, which has killed more than 50 Lebanese civilians since Wednesday, follows the capture of two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah.

The escalation has sparked international calls for restraint.

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Wow, just wow, so much violence in the Middle East, and I'm shamed to admit it, but... I'm so oblivious I really had no idea of this particular conflict until a few days ago...
It's sad that a country's leaders might feel one day and attack another nation, then if that nation strikes back, such in this case, there are certainly citizens caught in the cross-hairs that didn't believe in the cause that fueled the event...

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[Dragonfly 0]

Yes, the present sort of war is rather looking like a bigger war to break out. This time around the problem is not just Palestine but with Lebanon involving in the conflict I'm afraid Arabs may take chance to ignite the war. Remember, technology has developed so much these days that no country can afford any war anymore. And like in any other conflict all the parties involved may grap one more land or the other but the real victims are the innocent children, women and men. I really do not know who to blame and who to point finger at. But understanding has been very much lacking from both the parties involved in the case of Palestinian-Israeli conflict. It's just that we are entering into an active phase of the cycle of violence in this part of the world. Just another sad story to add.

[delivi 0]

I am a supporter of Israel. What Israel does is right, it was holding its peace so long, but when they attack then Israel must retaliate and control them otherwise it will surely cause a war.Israel, even though it is a small country it is more powerful.

[brainless 0]

*cough* *cough* *cough* Israel keeping peace???

Dragonfly: actually, there is noone to point a finger at left but an entire region with Israel in the center. About 60 years ago, you might have been able to point a finger; nowadays children are being raised to hate the other side.

What happens down there is no war - War has strict regulations (look at conventions like the Geneva Convention and, sorry, I don't know the english name for this, the Hager Landkriegskonvention [a convention on how a war has to be fought so it can be called a fair war; however ridiculous calling war "fair" sounds]). which are supposed to protect civilians, medical personnel, wounded soldiers and soldiers in general on both sides. For example, if you're fighting a war, you may not attack places where you might injure or kill civilians and you may not block medical convois etc; this would be considered a war crime.

Before I go on, I'd like to stress that there is noone left to point fingers at but everyone [yeah, except for some minorities which call for a peaceful solution - but they are minorities on every side involved].

Without any speculations on who might think to gain something from this violence, this is what happened:

1) About two weeks ago, a group of Hizb Allah (aka Hisbollah) fighters attacked an Israeli patrol near the Israel-Lebanese border, killing 3 soldiers and capturing 2. In attempt to rescue these soldiers, an israeli tank followed the Hizb Allah fighters but drove over a land mine which caused the death of this tank's crew (4 soldiers).

2) Hizb Allah offered an exchange of captives; the two israeli soldiers against Hizb Allah fighters in israeli prisons.

3) Israel refused to trade and its army crossed the Israel-Lebanese border; apart from killing dozens of civilians, the israeli army bombed bridges and the largest power plant in the lebanese South in the first move.

cf. IslamOnline.net [1]

In the following days, the israeli air force bombed the [by that time already closed] international airport of Beirut and interrupted the Beirut-Damascus highway and bombed other targets around Beirut; killing three and injuring 40 people;
air strikes in south Lebanon killed another five civilians and injured an unknown number; raising the number of Lebanese casualties to 66.

In the meantime, Hizb Allah attacks on northern Israel killed four Israelis and injured "more than 150".

al-Jazeera [2]

In the meantime, the fighting has gone on. Hizb Allah badly damaged an israeli war ship using a drone packed with 40kg [90lb] of explosives and Israel destroyed more lebanese infrastructure and both sides killed some more civilians...

...all this looks kind of like the theory of "Bomber Harris" in WWII who thought the german people could be brought down if the allied air force only dropped enough bombs on german civilians. We all know that it took another year of fighting on the ground until Germany accepted defeat (well, at least in most parts. There are still some people around who dream of Großdeutschland :/).

Some people in the israeli military seem to think that the Palestine resistance will crumble if they only drop enough bombs on them. Among the Palestinian side, however, voices are being raised which support Hizb Allah's claim that the two soldiers will only be released if Israel releases prisoners as well. [Remember: These people are political prisoners. Many palestine people in israeli prisons did nothing worse than raising their voices in favor of a state Palestine and the israeli soldiers did nothing except being Israeli people. Now go and find those who are morally right...]

Think again - some people on the Palestinian side of the border think Israel will give in if they only fire enough rockets on israeli cities ... Does the israeli government show any signs of retreating to the "green line"-borders of 1967 which is, among the palestinian leadership the Israel which will be accepted by them?


[1] http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

[2] http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

anyways, I guess there is more to come "down there". The syrians are talking about joining on the lebanese side; therefore Iran will follow - and the USofA want to attack Iran since quite some time...

(oh, by the way, something to think about: I would be able to pack a drone with explosives if anyone told me how to apoply the latter one and the drones used by Hizb Allah are equipped with a video camera which allows the pilot to see where he is flying it. Even though they received eight drones (one was used to nearly sink the israeli ship; seven still exist) from Iran a couple of years ago, they probably did not need iranian help to use them now...)

----- NOTE -----

I am willing to discuss this matter up to today. I will be cut off from the internet for the three weeks to come and I will probably not be able to read anything but mainstream news. I suppose I'll be ready for discussing the events of the coming month in about a month...

Edited July 19, 2006 by brainless (see edit history)

[LParyani 0]

I quite have to agree with brainless. I've been living in the Middle of East since I was born (I'm not Arab though), and although where I live is not in any non-political ambush in this Middle East tension, the outcome can, to an extent be felt here.

 

It is really sad to witness this. The thing that I cannot understand, however, is the ignorant attitude of the other Arab countries that are not directly involved in this situation. They don't have anything to say about this. This has been a part of newspapers and many debates, but they wish not to break their silence. All I pray for is the tension to cool down as there really is no outcome of war except a negetive one - for the people who don't even have anything to do with anything.

 

And how many of you think that President Bush should really be quite about this and not support Israel by telling them that what they're doing is right?

[Sprnknwn 0]

I perfectly agree with brainless. There are so many wrong actions about Israel and nobody ever does anything. United States are friends of course, but European governments only say "mmm, that is wrong" and then do nothing but send food and money. As european I feel really ashamed. Of course the population need help, but it would be easier if someone stopped Israel, I think it?s high time. The same with United Nations, they never move a finger, just talk and talk and write dossiers... It seems that only because they suffered holocaust they?re allowed to do what they want and this is just not right. I wish I knew enough english to express myself better and further on this, because is one of the things in the world that causes me more frustration. Governments like Israel that use murder, make the terrorists look justified to kill.

[Florisjuh 0]

I hate it when country's go to war, as an east european citizen (The Netherlands) I have yet to face real war, but I can imagine how awfull it is and to know people die in terrible ways makes me very upset. I hope this war ends quickly, but if it goes on like this we will soon see an enourmous war break out, and a lot of other country's will probably join the fight to capture these oil friendly country's...

[LParyani 0]

The same with United Nations, they never move a finger, just talk and talk and write dossiers...

That is very true. The only thing we can expect from the United Nations are their comments on war without much action behind it. Their fight against terrorism is nothing but a race for more and more power. In the midst of all this, we should'nt forget the tension between USA and Iran.

[Panzer 0]

I think the whole thing is a mess. The Lebanese people are innocent, only the Lebanon terrorist group are firing rockets into Israel. Israel are firing in retelleation and because they want their man back. It think its 300+ innocent civilians have been killed, not to mention innocent Isralies.Theres the conflict with Israel and the Palestinies, all because of the captured soldiers. If the Palastineins and the Lebanese terrorist group would just give back the soldiers everything would end!Theres all the other countries like England, France, United States trying to get their citizens out of Lebanon, i think the United states are launching a 300 helicopter evacuation.I think the situation will esculate. Israel may step its attacks up and even retake Gaza or something.

[LParyani 0]

Theres all the other countries like England, France, United States trying to get their citizens out of Lebanon, i think the United states are launching a 300 helicopter evacuation.

I read in the newspaper the other day that a Canadian was trapped in Lebanon when he was there for a vacation, and after being informed about the whole situation, he called the Canadian embassy for help, but all they told him was to stay put as they're doing all they could to bring aid and are currently very low on resources.

[Panzer 0]

Well after day 6, 30 mroe innocent Lebanese were killed. The Lebanese group that are launching the rockets into Israel claim to have destroyed 2 Israeli tanks. The Israelites deny it..

[lawmatchmaker 0]

I am a supporter of Israel. What Israel does is right, it was holding its peace so long, but when they attack then Israel must retaliate and control them otherwise it will surely cause a war.
Israel, even though it is a small country it is more powerful.

Do you seriously believe that bombing and killing innocent women and children is right. If that is your believe, I suggest you go and take some moral education classes. This bombing is not done by some crazed fanatic or terrorist, it is done by a the airforce of a country in a carefully planned and calculated manner. The IDF has always claimed to be the most moral country in the world, so does delibrately killing and murdering women and children count in those high moral standards? I think Israel and the IDF should really stop occupying the so called 'moral' high ground as murderers definately have no place there.

[FLaKes 0]

=( , I was sad the other day when I saw this picture on msn.com, You know, the place were they have "this weeks pictures". I dont know if anyone here might have seen it, but it was a heartbreaking picture of a child with blood all over him, was crying next no his wounded mother as he was covering her wound. It made me feel bad, and made me hate both groups that are fighting over there.

[adriantc 0]

Well for the past month I have been away and I didn't have an internet connection so I couldn't post on Xisto. I have watched the ongoing conflict with a lot of attention right from the beggining and I want to express my point of view. I am sure many of you share it...I used to joke with my parents when I came back from a long trip I always asked them "Any news? Did a war start as I was gone?". Of course this time it was no longer a joke. A war has started, inocent people die every day. As you have seen the UN has no power to stop it (I will discuss that later in my post) and the only country that has the power to stop it does not wish to (I will also discuss that later in my post)...I had a shock when I heard a war has started. I thought "What the h*** are the jews doing this time?" (I was already angry on them because a few days before I was in Prague and I wanted to visit the jewish quarters; as I have never been in a synagogue I said why not visit one... but thy asked me to pay to visit a synagogue... I wonder where in the world does anyone ask for money to visit a church?!?).So in my opinion this war is 60% Israels fault and 40% Hezbollah fault. The war started from a kidnapping, but as everything in the Middle East is has a history of conflict. Why do I say that it is Israels main fault? Because 50 years ago they did not have a country and they stole one... not only thy stole one (I really mean the word "stole" when I used it), but they stole one from the people who's conscience and religion provides them with a powerful weapon of revenge. The Palestinians are still opressed in their own country and I don't blame them for wanting their land back. In conclusion I am strongly against what the jews did and I am also strongly against the way the arabs decided to reclaim their land.But in this war I can't overlook the inocent people that died. Hezbollah has no conscience to stop it from using inocent people as human shields, but the jews have the choice to stop the bombing and let diplomacy resume. But they did not make that choice and the war goes on...But what really makes me angry is the the jews have an indirect control over the world. The so mighty USA is just like someone dancing on what somebody else sings. I think most of you know the fact that 90% of the richest people in the USA are jews so basicly the so great USA are controlled by the jews. If you would have told me that a month ago I would have said that you're not in your mind, but this war made it clear to me. I can remember Condoleezza Rice smiling in Kofi Annans face, I can remember the way USA has rejected that public statement that said it was a deliberat attack on that UN outpost. And more important I can remember the way they rejected and still do any ceasefire that would save the life of so many inocent people. I have heard on CNN how the syrian ambasador said that they do not like the new middle east order that the USA and Israel (two contries that have 200 and 50 years of history, he added) want over contries that have over 600 years of history. I agree with him... Hezbollah is a threat and should be disarmed, but a ceasefire is the way to do it. What I hate the most is that the UN has no power even if all the countries in the world (except USA of course) agree that a ceasefire is crucial. The USA had the responsability, as the world's biggest power, to end this conflict and let diplomacy resume. But after all that has happend they still don't do it.IT IS AWFUL TO SEE THAT MONEY ARE MORE IMPORTANT THEN PEOPLE'S LIFE.The Bush administraton was right ... a new world order is necessary, a new world order that would bring peace and stability to the world. I really can't see where is the place of USA in this new world order.If I have offended some jews, it was not in my intention to do so and I am sorry but this is the way that I see a war that could have been avoided or at least shortened.

Edited August 5, 2006 by adriantc (see edit history)

[brainless 0]

adriantc: please, watch your language. Blaming "the Jews" has been quite popular for hundreds of years ("they" killed Jesus; "they" poisoned the well; "they" spoiled the harvest; "they" endagered Germany...) and, in some cases, people go as far as claiming that there is a jewish race. Even though jews make up about 80% of Israel's population, all Israelis I have met so far [i admit I can count them all using only my fingers] were jews but spoke out against any military action other than self-defence, and bombing a village a few hours after some rockets have been fired into Israel did not count as self-defence but as "cruel" and "criminal".

Yes, Israelis who dare to participate in a meeting of adolescentes from Palestine, Israel and Germany are probably open-minded without having to meet Palestinians, but: This makes it seven exceptions from "the Jews". Look up the name "Uri Avnery" and find some more exceptions from "the Jews"...

 

adriantc wrote:

 

The Bush administraton was right ... a new world order is necessary, a new world order that would bring peace and stability to the world. I really can't see where is the place of USA in this new world order.

 

 

I can't see where there is a place for _any_ kind of nationalism in a world order which is supposed to bring peace and stability. Western/Central Europe are beginning to form some kind of a nation which will, once it is united, be about as strong as the USofA. The european draft constitution of two years ago had a clause reading "All member states obligate themselves to increase their military abilities on a regular basis" and gave the control over a european army to be created to the heads of the member states. The European Parliament would have to be informed about decisions of these people - and most heads of states around here are not even elected by the people themselves but by persons elected by the people (and at least in Germany, the head of state usually does not even represent a majority of the people but only about 40% of us...