I Am Scientist And I Believe In God Believer Scientists

[truefusion 3]

It is my belief that according to the bible the world is about 6000 years old, which that fossil record contradicts, unless both the important geological precepts and dating are to be deemed incorrect. This I think is pushing it.

You're looking at it from a young-earth creationist point-of-view. If i'm not mistaken, most believers of the Genesis story are old-earth creationists. There are people out there who think that these "days" mentioned in the Bible are actual 24-hour days. But it has been proven that they aren't.

And in my view this alone is sufficient evidence that the book contains error and hence cannot claim to be born of divine inspiration. There are other issue I have with some biblical stories, particularly the one of Noah and his ark. The idea that Noah fit 1,250,000 species of animals = 2,5 M animals on his boat seems a little ridiculous to me and I think if one sat down and did the math the story would prove to be a ridiculous, I mean if on average each animal required 10 cm * 10 cm * 10 cm of space it would still require 2500 cubi meters to store all the animals and the idea of one man building a boat of that size is ridiculous. As is the story of angels in the clouds which my school teacher explained as "symbolic".

Many animals that exist today did not exist back then. And Noah only had to take in the animals in the surrounding area—since the flood was not world-wide as many think; it has been proven that it is not world-wide.

Believers will often argue that life being an accident is ridiculous when in the end they cannot really prove that god himself was not an accident.

In the end, the question is asked, "How was something created from nothing?" And no logical explanation can be given by "non-believers".

Only I am more inclined to go with the arguement that is based evidence as opposed to pure conjure.

Likewise.

[githoko 0]

Lol.

You're looking at it from a young-earth creationist point-of-view. If i'm not mistaken, most believers of the Genesis story are old-earth creationists. There are people out there who think that these "days" mentioned in the Bible are actual 24-hour days.

Firstly, could you please explain to me, if the days mentioned in the poem in Genesis are not 24hr days and they are not millenia then what period do they signify. I will take your word for it, but it would be of interest if you could explain to me the derivation of that period.

Many animals that exist today did not exist back then. And Noah only had to take in the animals in the surrounding areasince the flood was not world-wide as many think; it has been proven that it is not world-wide.

The statement that you make that certain species did not exist then which exist now is a bit dubious to me. What I inteprete it as is an admission that at least the precepts of evolution you find acceptable; because in my pathetically limited understanding of taxonomy a species is by definition a group of animals that can breed with each other and no other group. I suppose by consequence they can only produce members or variation of their own species. That is the natural state of things if one is to eliminate progressive natural genetic mutation.

Thus in stating that more species exist now than did before is to state that genetic mutation can be progressive and natural variation as Darwin put it is a reality. The manifestation of this would of course require modifications that were an adaptations to enviroment and not to divine intervention as would be required. Again I believe there is sufficient evidence for my view in naturalist literature, whereas I am not aware of the latter being suggested in the bible.


Another thing I will perhaps need more indepth translation on is this quote : "God observing man's evil behaviour and deciding to flood the earth and destroy all life." which I got from http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ . It continues to say : "all creatures on Earth died.".

In your clarification could you please mention again the derivation, because I have a nagging feeling that archeological techniques were used to verify that, and it would be interesting whether in doing so you allow me to discount Christian objection to carbon dating and what influence that will after your explanation of the 24hr thing.

In the end, the question is asked, "How was something created from nothing?" And no logical explanation can be given by "non-believers".

This point I completely agree with and is not really worthy of debate. It was actually the point I began on. Neither believers nor atheists can really claim an answer to it. I will only say that I have heard it mentioned that to question what existed before the universe, before the big bang is silly, as time was created along with the universe and hence there was no before. But I think this is more to your arguement than mine. Except I would be asking what was there before your god was and he created time. So the origin of the origin of universe question I cannot really dwell on since it is beyond any philosophical understanding that I have. It is only what happened long after it was created that I question , which of course includes the creating of this planet and all life in it.

[master_bacarra 0]

"God observing man's evil behaviour and deciding to flood the earth and destroy all life."

i am also intrigued. i believe i need to hear an explanation of that quote from a devout christian's point of view. i feel like there is some sort of loophole to that and about what god's functions and abilities.

[truefusion 3]

Firstly, could you please explain to me, if the days mentioned in the poem in Genesis are not 24hr days and they are not millenia then what period do they signify. I will take your word for it, but it would be of interest if you could explain to me the derivation of that period.

The Hebrew word "yowm" or "yom" (Strong's 3117) which is rendered as "day" in the Bible has several meanings. Given the context, it is quite easy to distinguish just which definition should be applied based upon the current events for that (so-called) day. There are also verses in the Bible that state that a thousand years to God can be like day (e.g. Psalm 90:4).

 

The statement that you make that certain species did not exist then which exist now is a bit dubious to me. What I inteprete it as is an admission that at least the precepts of evolution you find acceptable; because in my pathetically limited understanding of taxonomy a species is by definition [1:a group of animals that can breed with each other and no other group.] I suppose by consequence they can only produce members or variation of their own species. That is the natural state of things if one is to eliminate progressive natural genetic mutation.

 

Thus in stating that more species exist now than did before is to state that genetic mutation can be progressive and natural variation as Darwin put it is a reality. The manifestation of this would of course require modifications that were an adaptations to enviroment and not to divine intervention as would be required. Again I believe there is sufficient evidence for my view in naturalist literature, whereas I am not aware of the latter being suggested in the bible.

(Keep the part i numbered as "1" in mind as i mention the rest; you should be able to put two and two together.) Now, this quoted section seems to have been said with assumption that things happened on their own, without human interference. However, what i was implying was something that came about with human interference. If i'm not mistaken, today there are several mutts/crossbreeds that didn't take millions of years to mutate based on environmental changes, but came about cause of human intervention. And if i'm not mistaken, again, it's not limited to dogs, and am quite positive these crossbreeds weren't around during the time of the flood.

 

Another thing I will perhaps need more indepth translation on is this quote : "God observing man's evil behaviour and deciding to flood the earth and destroy all life." which I got from http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ . It continues to say : "all creatures on Earth died.".

If you don't mind reading a lot: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/localflood.html

Yeah, i got a bit lazy on this part.

[laforgej 0]

I am a believer of science over religion. In my mind scientist have done great work in explaining evolution. The problem comes when you try to explain the origin of the universe. Matter can be created from energy, but you are still left with the problem in explaining where that energy came from. I can not believe in heaven or hell, because science says that live as we know it is controlled by the activities in our brain. After we are dead these activities stop and we are no long able to think. The as if you fell asleep and never woke up again.As for the religion that people live by today, religious teachings are all about the how people should act to one another and how they should live their lives in order to create a greater society. The way I see it, there is no heaven or hell truthfully, but they are created in your mind to remind people how they should act from day to day. If you look to the core, all religions have the same base, you should treat others the way you want to be treated, With the results being heaven or hell. This idea keeps society peaceful the way a court system would. With the idea that god is watching you, people are inclined to be the best they can be. Rather than thinking it's ok as long as no one see it, religion creates someone that is always watching.

[truefusion 3]

I am a believer of science over religion.

If you're a believer in Science, then you should have become a believer in God by now. http://forums.xisto.com/topic/37072-a-world-without-a-religion/page-16#entry301823

[mixxoys 0]

I am a scientist (B.Sc , M.Sc & Ph.D) in Science and with Master in Systems Engineering and many others disciplines(Operations Research, Economics, Finance, Accounting, Project Managements,..) But I am believe in God. Also I was 5 years in Soviet Union in the time of Communism and Marxism ideology and this didn't affect my belief.
As a researcher, System Engineer, I analysis the miracles of the systems in our body.

As I am designer and programmer, I enjoyed being a designer and creator for things the human intelligence can make. So I have sense of creation and designer and feel that the Universe has creator too. And our systems in our bodies has Intelligent designer.

I have studied Thermodynamics laws, Special and General Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, Newton Mechanics, Hydromechanics, Euclidean Geometry and Spherical Geometry, Optics and Electromagnetic Theory, Atomic Theory, with very high mathematical formulas and very complicated theories and equations.

Logic and all method of proof I aware for. I can distinguish between what is science and what not. Before you jump and say something I tell you that religion is not science but it is a faith and belief. I studied Darwin's Theory but I consider it as fiction and not facts.So it is not science and can be considered a belief.

I have the patience to read the scientific papers and research even if they are very new line or is not from my field or contradict my views because I have the basis grounds. So I have read thousands from different views about the philosophy, religion, beliefs,atheism, Darwinism , evolution, the Big bang Theory, astronomy, cosmology, etc. etc.

As I am aware about the scientific discoveries and universe facts, I couldn't find anybody could create a tiny cell of life from scratch. May be we could manipulate the genes or cloning sheep but this is not from scratch.

All what we study in science is "what is" and how it is going on.Why there is day and night?. The day is 24 hours and not 30. The earth is spanning around itself and go around the Sun etc etc. Why things is fallen to the ground ? [the gravity]. We put laws and formula to describe these phenomena. Verify the formula and correct it . But why these laws are in that shape and not not another. What the magnetism and electricity and what laws but why these law in that manner and not otherwise. What the concave or convex lenses and prism do to the light. What the different mirrors can do to the light and pictures... etc....

Few years ago, my sight had dropped suddenly. Four different specialists couldn't find any defects in my eyes. No operations can be done on my eyes and glasses can not help. Until MRI test has found a little tumer in the brain up of my nose. They suggested that this tumor may be doing pressure on my nerve from eyes to the brain and they suggested to make operation to get rid of it. I hesitated since I don't imagine that my scull will be broken in the operation. After their warning that I could be blind if I don't do that { reading and many hours using the computer are my life), I agreed to do the operation. Instead of opening the skull to reach the brain they did the operation through my nose. They removed the tumor but they damaged a very tiny thing is called pituitary Glands. The pituitary is a gland attached to the base of the brain which secretes hormones that govern the onset of puberty, sexual development of reproductive function.and sexual characteristic, mussels, hair, voice beside many other activities not related to me ( breast milk production, menstrual cycles, infertility, vaginal dryness, and loss of some female characteristics for women, growth hormones for children,...).Water levels in the body. Also this gland activate other gland functions. For example The pituitary secretes thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), which stimulates the thyroid gland to secrete hormones that affect body metabolism. .

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ [information extracted or sumerized from Medical Encyclopedia: https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000343.htm and other resources]

The pituitary gland is a small structure that is located just below the brain. It is attached by a stalk to the hypothalamus, the area of the brain that controls its function.

The hormones secreted by the pituitary and their functions are:

- growth hormone (GH), which stimulates growth of tissues and bone
- thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), which stimulates the thyroid gland to secrete hormones that affect body metabolism
- adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), which stimulates the adrenal gland to secrete cortisol which helps to maintain blood pressure
- prolactin, which stimulates female breast development and milk production
- luteinizing hormone (LH), which controls sexual function in males and females
- follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), which controls sexual function in males and females
- antidiuretic hormone (ADH), which controls water loss by the kidneys
- oxytocin, which stimulates contraction of the uterus during labor and milk release from the breasts.

Also the pituitary gland controls the release of FSH (follicle-stimulating hormone) and LH (luteinizing hormone), which govern the onset of puberty, sexual development and reproductive function.

After the operation and loosing the pituitary glad, I have Hypopituitarism. Because the pituitary gland affects the other endocrine organs, effects of hypopituitarism may be gradual or sudden and dramatic. I gained weight(30 km), I become dehydrate my face hair stop growing ( I was happy for that), my voice become softer, frequently thirsty, frequently urine ...The extra weight (30 km) affect my heart pressure.

So they give me a hormone replacement therapy. I take tablets for Thyroxine, Cortisone.

As a caution of heart diseases, I have to take three medicine plus cholesterol tablets.

For not being dehydrate and to control myself and to not be wet and control my urine, I have to puff minirin nasal in my nose on the night and morning.

For edema in my feet (swallow feet), I have to take some tablets plus potassium supplements.

So I can not leave my place for long times. So I have to retire and sit before the computer many hours and shuttle between fridge to drink and Toilette .

All this because my tiny gland lost or damaged?.

I will explain it in seperate posting in series of postings to show the mircles in our body which can not be there by chance or evolution or big bang.

(sorry i dont know how to properly qoute)

Well, i think and i am backed by others that we will never know if god exists so we might as well just believe in it because otherwise we will be sad and its nice to believe in something.

Notice from KuBi:

Fixed quoting. Just use the "Quote" or "Reply" button at the bottom of the persons post.

[glenstein 0]

1. It seem that you didn't read my post. I didn't say that removing the tumber has connection with God. I said when the tumor was removed they removed with it a 2 tiny pituitary gland and I have now a hormon replacement course and take daily 6-7 medication to reduce the impact of loosing this gland. Then I explained how many functions these tiny glands are doing. Then the question is : does the Evolution thories can explan how these glads come to be. I don't think so as it failed to explain eye evolution.

Just being straightforward: It's posts like this where I have a hard time believing you when you say you've read thousands of viewpoints on all kinds of subjects, or that you read tons of scientific literature dealing with evolution. The evolution of the eye has been a fascinating and widely researched question. There are plenty of explanations for the development of the eye and someone who has truly voraciously consumed evolutionary literature would surely have come across it.

 

One example:

 

Here's how some scientists think some eyes may have evolved: The simple light-sensitive spot on the skin of some ancestral creature gave it some tiny survival advantage, perhaps allowing it to evade a predator. Random changes then created a depression in the light-sensitive patch, a deepening pit that made "vision" a little sharper. At the same time, the pit's opening gradually narrowed, so light entered through a small aperture, like a pinhole camera.

 

Every change had to confer a survival advantage, no matter how slight. Eventually, the light-sensitive spot evolved into a retina, the layer of cells and pigment at the back of the human eye. Over time a lens formed at the front of the eye. It could have arisen as a double-layered transparent tissue containing increasing amounts of liquid that gave it the convex curvature of the human eye.

 

In fact, eyes corresponding to every stage in this sequence have been found in existing living species. The existence of this range of less complex light-sensitive structures supports scientists' hypotheses about how complex eyes like ours could evolve. The first animals with anything resembling an eye lived about 550 million years ago. And, according to one scientist's calculations, only 364,000 years would have been needed for a camera-like eye to evolve from a light-sensitive patch.

Even if one wants to doubt the theory, which you have every right to do, it's heavy handed to say evolution has "failed" to explain the eye.

 

But congrats on starting an interesting topic and keeping everyone thinking.

[aeccommunity 0]

i believe in god! on a simple thing, how can you believe if numbers start on 0 - 9? if you sum all of them i.e 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9 = 45, and if 4 add by 5 = 9. if you do like this on 1 until 4, you'll get 1, right? (1+2+3+4=10 so 1+0=1) and if you do this again with (1 (result from 1+2+3+4) +5+6+7 = 1) and the result is 1. if you add 1 to 8 = 9, and the last number is 9. so what it's mean?the numbers are really well organized. when you sum 1+2+3+4 is same as you sum 1 (result of 1+2+3+4)+5+6+7 = 1. it means god created heaven and hell and the universe is on 7 days! the skies almost 7 too. and based on one of religion (i'm sorry if i can't say it, i'm tolerance with other religion, i'm affraid it will make a serious discussion later... so sorry just add it as your knowledge, thx ), 4 means to conceive as or hold to be one. and of course, 1 is god, when he created hell and heaven, he created man, genie, and devil to declare themselves to conceive as or hold to be one who they'll pray is god itself. and 9 with 9 =99 means all kindness with the fair name only be given and only god had it's name.so, who can created a very complex and tidy it is excepts the one who had a powerful one? in a conclusion, i believed in god all the time. on my heart, god can do anything. he can makes our powerful brain to be obsolete one. so, who's believe can be a smart people forever? if not got neurology atrophy, ataxia, or alzeimer, can he says he's still one of the smartast man in the world?cheers ^^

Edited February 16, 2007 by aeccommunity (see edit history)

[iGuest 3]

Anonymous God BelieverI Am Scientist And I Believe In God

this is somehow true, from a person with no sides. I do believe in God. And for all the people who doesn't believe (this is not pushing my believe on others but merely giving something to think about)

You'll get a better outcome if you live and believe in God and then die and nothing happens (in that case there is no God)

than,

You live without beleiving in God and when you die finding out that He is true . Than you are indeed in deep troubles ...

Reflect on that...

 

For atheists who like statistics:I'm a scientist too.. And people like facts that OTHER PEOPLE also can SEE and or FEEL... What about facts that other people cannot see because you asked God for something? and then you got it ?

I've received a lot of personal prove that God is there and watching over us.Once = coincindence? twice is luck? thrice is try once more ? 4 , 5, 6, 7,8 ,9 10 times is what then? certainty? I think it is the last one...

 

-Anonymous God Believer

[gummybear 0]

I personally believe that there is insufficient data on this subject.

 

I believe that in the not so far distant future (say in the next ten to twenty thousand years), humans will perhaps learn to create universes of their own.

 

Therefore will humans then be gods? To other humans, no - to those in the created universes, perhaps yes.

 

 

It is possible that there is a god (in the sense - a being who created the universe) - it is also more than likely that if this is so, that god is little or nothing like what religious people believe 'him' to be.

 

A god, if he exists, is probably a creature far beyond human understanding (not even necessarily much superior, but certainly very, very different). And perhaps god 'cares' for the universe (if 'he' is a creature even capable of caring, which is a HUMAN emotion, please note - we do not know that 'he' is capable of human emotions for certain).

 

As I said, there is little data on the subject. To make definite statements in these conditions of darkness is the height of arrogance. There is no data, only postulation put in a positive, definite light by blind faith.

 

Humility is the knowledge of ignorance, that one day leads us into the light of knowledge. Blind faith - the words 'I KNOW' are arrogant, and can only result in the perpetuation of ignorance.

 

What are we, truly? - a little spark of life on a tiny rock dwarfed by the vastness of this universe. Let us not hold ourselves higher or greater than we are, voicing opinions beyond our understanding. The human race is here today, and perhaps it will be gone tomorrow. Or perhaps not. Who knows?

 

All we can do is do our best to learn, to advance towards a distant perfection - to be fully worthy of this moment in which we exist.

that was very elegantly put.

 

As for myself I do believe that there's a God. But then, like yratorm said, how could our human minds even begin to contain or understand in depth the character of such a being? I see God wherever love is, and love is sufficient proof to me that there is a higher being, something beyond the scope of our grasp and understanding.

 

what you said reminded me of one of my favorite quotes from the film Martian Child

which is...

"Right now, you and me here, put together entirely from atoms, sitting on this round rock with a core of liquid iron held down by this force of this trouble you call gravity, all the while spinning around the sun at 67 thousand miles an hour and whizzing through the Milky Way at 600 thousand miles an hour.. in a universe that very well may be chasing its own tail at the speed of light.. and amidst all this frantic activity, fully cognizant of our own imminent demise- which is a very pretty way of saying we all know we're going to die.. we reach out to one another, sometimes for the sake of vanity, sometimes for reasons you're not old enough to understand yet, but a lot of the time we just reach out .. and expect nothing in return. Isn't that strange? Isn't that weird? .. Isn't that weird enough?"

- Martian Child

Edited March 14, 2009 by gummybear (see edit history)

[mentat 0]

I consider myself a scientist, analyzing "things". Science may be able to explain "how" something works but not why. I won't go too much into the "theory" of disproving God or proving him because I see it as irrelevant. No offense to anyone, but religion is often times a mental construct of us people that has little to do with God, love, or life.It's too institutionalized at times, belief in God. I've had many experiences with God and a lot of time away, and personally I feel that at this point in my life God is treating me with a more hands-off approach. I'm a young adultto him and I don't cling to him or religion in the same way as I did even a year ago. In saying this I'm approachingthe subject of God as a relationship and not a concept. that's the problem. everyone's got abstract theories and whatnot but what life boils down to is in-the-moment experiences. I'm a computer scientist but I don't get analytical about God.... much. Sometimes I do wonder, but this comes more from the heart. Having said that though, my beliefs about God and religion are quite radical from what most people believe.