George Bush

[OCAC 0]

I am harmless too you know i dont go kill them or threaten them but im saying soon one day someone will.

193314[/snapback]

Sorry, Ryo, I must have miss understood you, which unfortunately happens very easily on the Interwebs. Keep on fighting the good fight!

 

I thought the discussion was centered on George Bush.

193314[/snapback]

oh, it is. environmental issues do relate back to bad policy decisions and George Bush has done some very bad decision towards the environment, since he got into office.

 

I just want to make clear that the disdain I have against Bush is back up by observations from the real world. That's how the environment creeps in. I as much as the next person likes a good ad hominem outburst, but the rational in me, does want to support this by actual facts.

[Amezis 0]

I think lots of people has misunderstood what actually is happening.It's not BUSH that goes to war. Nor is it him that raises the oil prices.There are lots of people that are the head of a country, and Bush is not really the leader. He can't do everything he wants. Also, the war on Afghanistan and Iraq wasn't bush's "idea". The only thing Bush really did was to inform the world that there will be a war.Also, as many of you knows, only 10 percent of Iraq supported Saddam Hussein. (people supporting Taliban in Afghanistan were around 5%). Also, Saddam has killed thousands of people, and this is a fact. In south Iraq, there were a civilization that had been there for around 5000 years. Saddam killed around 50% of this civilzation, only because the areas they lived in was a good place to hide in.I am sure "Bush" (the American governement) knew this. Lots of similar things happened in Iraq, too. But I'm not sure that bush-haters knows this.Also, you should not say anything against Bush unless you REALLY know what you're talking about.I won't say anything for or against Bush (the American governement) as I don't know the details, but I've told a little about what I know in my post.But one thing is sure: it would be completely wrong to stop the war now. If this happens, the country will not have any governement, laws or anything. So the war can't stop before Iraq has a stable governement and don't need help from other countries.So, if you're against war, don't try to stop the current war, as this will just make everything worse, but try to prevent a new war.

[iwuvcookies 0]

It doesn't matter if you like the president or not. People will always like or hate any president. I may hate Bush but someone might like him. Its all about pointing fingers and stuff. Hes' the scapegoat cause he makes most of the decisions.

[OCAC 0]

I think lots of people has misunderstood what actually is happening.

 

It's not BUSH that goes to war. Nor is it him that raises the oil prices.

 

193554[/snapback]

No, of course, Bush is not fighting. He went Absent WithOut Leave, when it was his duty to serve his country.

 

There are lots of people that are the head of a country, and Bush is not really the leader. He can't do everything he wants.

 

193554[/snapback]

Sorry, but as the head of the executive, he might not be able to do everything he wants, because there are those things that are called laws. That does not mean however, he could not have done all those things he did do, and more importantly he is RESPONSIBLE for the things that happen in the name of the US-Government.

 

and that includes - going to war.

 

 

Also, the war on Afghanistan and Iraq wasn't bush's "idea".

 

The only thing Bush really did was to inform the world that there will be a war.

193554[/snapback]

So tell me whose idea was it then? And who gave the order to go to war. It might not have been originally his idea, but he signed the order, making it his idea and his RESPONSIBILITY. Who apart from the president of the United States can order the american troops to go and fight?

 

 

Also, as many of you knows, only 10 percent of Iraq supported Saddam Hussein. (people supporting Taliban in Afghanistan were around 5%). Also, Saddam has killed thousands of people, and this is a fact. In south Iraq, there were a civilization that had been there for around 5000 years. Saddam killed around 50% of this civilzation, only because the areas they lived in was a good place to hide in.

 

193554[/snapback]

I am not sure where you go that idea from but Bagdad, which is at the centre of Irak is, where the old culture is and actually it is spread out throughout the whole country, and if you look at the behavior of the American troops in Bagdad, once it fell, shows very clearly, that there was no interest in the old culture (have you heard of all the looted ancient artefacts? and why were there only guards at the oil ministry?)

 

The other thing is. Who sold the weapons to Sadam Hussain? Donald Rumsfeld. Who trained Sadam Hussain back in the 50ies. The CIA. He was OUR baby, till the US government got bored of him.

 

There are at this point in time more brutal dictators out there than Sadam Hussain. (boiling people. f.e) Why is the US army not invading that country?

 

I am sure "Bush" (the American governement) knew this. Lots of similar things happened in Iraq, too. But I'm not sure that bush-haters knows this.

193554[/snapback]

I don;t now any bush haters, I only know concerned citizens, that want their country back from the locust and exploiters, from the selfish suckers that are governing and are RESPONSIBLE for the mess the US is in.

 

Also, you should not say anything against Bush unless you REALLY know what you're talking about.

I won't say anything for or against Bush (the American governement) as I don't know the details, but I've told a little about what I know in my post.

193554[/snapback]

I don;t know where you got your "knowledge" from but it can't be based in reality. Maybe you should stop listening to Rush Limbaugh and the bullies on your playground and open your eyes.

 

 

But one thing is sure: it would be completely wrong to stop the war now.

193554[/snapback]

Which war are you talking about? The war in IRAQ is over. OVER. since about two years. Did you know that? I bet you did not. I also bet you thought that Sadam Hussain was responsible for 9/11.

 

Oh my, oh my.

 

 

If this happens, the country will not have any governement, laws or anything. So the war can't stop before Iraq has a stable governement and don't need help from other countries.

 

193554[/snapback]

Well, yes, the country has no stable government, but they do have a government, they do have laws there already as well.

 

So, if you're against war, don't try to stop the current war, as this will just make everything worse, but try to prevent a new war.

193554[/snapback]

I actually agree that the american troops should stay in IRAQ, but they should not make an half arsed attempt, as they do in the moment. They have to double the troop level to achieve control and be peace guards; what you want them to achieve, and that is stability.

 

But you see, Bush would never agree to that, because it would be political suicide. If he really cared about the Iraqi people, he would have done a lot of things differently (he and his government that is, but since he is the pResident. It is his RESPONSIBILTY)

[Ryo 0]

amezi your right on i wish i could say what u say but ocac i dont like you

[Amezis 0]

So tell me whose idea was it then? And who gave the order to go to war.

The president is not the only responsible for the war, there are actually more important people than him.

 

and more importantly he is RESPONSIBLE for the things that happen in the name of the US-Government.

Yes, of course he is responsible.

 

I am not sure where you go that idea from but Bagdad, which is at the centre of Irak is, where the old culture is and actually it is spread out throughout the whole country, and if you look at the behavior of the American troops in Bagdad, once it fell, shows very clearly, that there was no interest in the old culture (have you heard of all the looted ancient artefacts? and why were there only guards at the oil ministry?)

I got this "idea" from many sources, and there are many cultures in Iraq. Why are you saying THE OLD CULTURE when there has been MANY cultures in Iraq?? This land was home to some of the world's first and most distinguished civilizations. These included Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian, Assyrian and many other cultures.

 

Some of the sources are people that I know, that has shown me photos. The are Kurds, that have a completely different culture from the people in Bagdad.

 

Another source is a fact book I bought about this, since I'm very interrested in it. The culture I mentioned lives in a marsch area, and if you try to tell me that the country only has one culture, then you should just try search in Google or Wikipedia, and you should find some interresting info.

 

Who sold the weapons to Sadam Hussain? Donald Rumsfeld. Who trained Sadam Hussain back in the 50ies. The CIA. He was OUR baby, till the US government got bored of him.

He was a terrorist, and lowered the living standards and human rights in Iraq. [source]

 

So, I don't think this has anything to do with what the US did with Saddam back in the 50ies. (My opinion - not a fact)

 

I only know concerned citizens, that want their country back

As I said, there are many cultures in Iraq, and I know a Kurd family that escaped from Iraq in 94. They want their country back, but their country is not Iraq, it is Kurdistan. However, Kurdistan is not a real country.

 

I don;t know where you got your "knowledge" from but it can't be based in reality.

Now, I've told you where my knowledge came from. For this post, I used Wikipedia, but I normally read books or talk to people about it. As you should see, the Wikipedia articles are very neutral, so it may be worth reading them.

 

Which war are you talking about? The war in IRAQ is over. OVER. since about two years. Did you know that? I bet you did not. I also bet you thought that Sadam Hussain was responsible for 9/11.

The war in Iraq is not over yet. The US army don't send lots of bombs etc, but there are still fight between american (now with iraqi help) and terrorists (I didn't find any better name). It would be good if you bet some hosting credits or something, because I have never mentioned that I thought Saddam was responsible for 9/11. And I don't think that.

 

Well, yes, the country has no stable government, but they do have a government, they do have laws there already as well.

Yes, the laws are there, and the governement too. But if all the american troops are taken out of the country, no-one will care about the laws (Just like in New Orleans - there were laws there, too).

 

There are at this point in time more brutal dictators out there than Sadam Hussain.

Who?

 

I actually agree that the american troops should stay in IRAQ, but they should not make an half arsed attempt, as they do in the moment.

What the american troops do in Iraq, is because it is not easy for them. When they came to Iraq, they never thought that they were going to do such things. That's just how people react.

 

(The last quote tag messed up the whole post so I needed to put it in a CODE tag for some reason...)

If he really cared about the Iraqi people, he would have done a lot of things differently (he and his government that is, but since he is the pResident. It is his RESPONSIBILTY)

Doing lot of things differently? Like what? Just go to Saddam and ask "could you please be a little nicer, I don't like the way you rule the country now".

[no9t9 0]

Bush got the idea to start a war in Iraq because of his DAD and his dad's right hand man, don rumsfeld. Who, conincidentally, was also the current president's right hand man during the start of the war.It it my opinion that Bush Jr. is being "influenced" by Bush Sr. in all decisions that are made. After all, it is normal that a son would goto a father for advice especially a father with experience as president of the United States. Anyone who argues that the war in Iraq was started without ANY self serving reasons must be very niave. Oil was a certainly a factor, and also personal financial gains. Yes, part of the reason may have been to help Iraqi people but who really knows how big a part that was. Keep in mind Bush Sr. and Rumsfeld were instrumental in setting up Saddam in that region knowing full well who and what he was capable of. Bush Sr. and Rumsfeld sold WMDs to Saddam so that he could disrupt the region (primarily Iran) to provide free flowing oil. These are the very WMDs that the current administration insists are still in Iraq. Little did they know, they could not control Saddam. This is all well documented fact.In response to a previous post about how people feel about Saddam... I have talked to many Iraqi people (of varying cultural backgrounds). I can tell you that the common theme is not a hatred of Saddam because he is a murderous dictator. While this is all bad and the Iraqi people don't like this, the Iraqi people share a common hatred of the US because they screwed up their country allowing Saddam to get into power just to profit from the country's oil. Their sentiment is that if it were not for the US, Saddam would not be there in the first place.Maybe, Jr. is just trying to right a wrong and didn't quite execute as well as he had planned...

[OCAC 0]

amezi your right on i wish i could say what u say but ocac i dont like you

193691[/snapback]

I still like you, I simply disagree with what you say. that is a different thing, I hope you appreciate the difference.

[OCAC 0]

The president is not the only responsible for the war, there are actually more important people than him.

193852[/snapback]

 

Could you please name one, that is more important than the leader of the free world, the preznit, George Walker Bush? Seriously, who do you think is in charge?

 

Yes, of course he is responsible.

I got this "idea" from many sources, and there are many cultures in Iraq. Why are you saying THE OLD CULTURE when there has been MANY cultures in Iraq?? This land was home to some of the world's first and most distinguished civilizations. These included Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian, Assyrian and many other cultures.

 

Some of the sources are people that I know, that has shown me photos. The are Kurds, that have a completely different culture from the people in Bagdad.

 

Another source is a fact book I bought about this, since I'm very interrested in it. The culture I mentioned lives in a marsch area, and if you try to tell me that the country only has one culture, then you should just try search in Google or Wikipedia, and you should find some interresting info.

193852[/snapback]

 

I agree with you that Iraq has a very, extremely rich history, which is worth studying.

 

He was a terrorist, and lowered the living standards and human rights in Iraq. [source]

193852[/snapback]

 

Hmm, you are linking to a site, that does not say he is a terrorist. I don;t disagree, he was an evil man, that did lots of evil things, and I am glad he is no longer in the position of power.

 

So, I don't think this has anything to do with what the US did with Saddam back in the 50ies. (My opinion - not a fact)

193852[/snapback]

 

I am just describing that all the good boys are good boys as long as they fight on the side of the US, like Usama Bin laden, when he CIA trained, fought the good fight against the evil Russians in Afganistan in the 80ies.

 

As I said, there are many cultures in Iraq, and I know a Kurd family that escaped from Iraq in 94. They want their country back, but their country is not Iraq, it is Kurdistan. However, Kurdistan is not a real country.

Now, I've told you where my knowledge came from. For this post, I used Wikipedia, but I normally read books or talk to people about it. As you should see, the Wikipedia articles are very neutral, so it may be worth reading them.

193852[/snapback]

 

I have no opinion on Kurdistan only that I hope that they can live in peace with their neighbours, be it in Turkey, Iraq, Iran or in any other country, Germany f.e

The war in Iraq is not over yet.

193852[/snapback]

 

Yes it is over. Since 1 May 2003, major mission operations stopped and since June 2004, there is an Iraqi government, on which invitation the US Army and the Coalition of the willing is in the country and fights and gets killed, by insurgents, Baathists, Iranian, criminals, accidents, friendly fire and other means.

Where do I know this from? my memory, but here is a link or use http://forums.xisto.com/ for the explanation of the periods they are using

The US army don't send lots of bombs etc, but there are still fight between american (now with iraqi help) and terrorists (I didn't find any better name). It would be good if you bet some hosting credits or something, because I have never mentioned that I thought Saddam was responsible for 9/11. And I don't think that.

193852[/snapback]

 

sure, just won some, didn;t I? I am not saying thee is no fighting, I am saying that the "legal status has changed, and we are now post war in Iraq. Sadly the fighting has not stopped.

 

Yes, the laws are there, and the governement too. But if all the american troops are taken out of the country, no-one will care about the laws (Just like in New Orleans - there were laws there, too).

193852[/snapback]

 

But again it is the Aerican incompetence, that provided a major boost to the instability. It is now widely accepted that the firing of the army and the police was a major mistake, especially since they are now having to rehire exactly those people the fired. two years, two frustrating years later.

 

Who?

193852[/snapback]

 

our friendly Uzbek president, who like to boil people alive. as a link

 

What the american troops do in Iraq, is because it is not easy for them. When they came to Iraq, they never thought that they were going to do such things. That's just how people react.

193852[/snapback]

 

Why did they went in without thinking? Why, Why Why? Please answer. Bush cannot give a decent answer to this. Maybe you can help.

 

Doing lot of things differently? Like what? Just go to Saddam and ask "could you please be a little nicer, I don't like the way you rule the country now".

I don;t know, but certainly not what Bush did. Why did he have to lie to the world to start a war? He claimed there are weapons of mass destructions an when the world did not follow him and his poodle Blair, he stomped on on his own. Where is the coalition that was so grand in going into Afganistan, where there some sort of reason? They realized, that Bush just made up reasons, and that is just not legal. Bush did it ayway. He and his whole government don't care about the law anyway (look at Frist)

Anyway. Some food for thought.

 

 

Notice from rejected:

Adjusted credits, fixed quote tags. The quote tags won't work if you have more than 10.

Edited December 16, 2016 by OpaQue (see edit history)

[Amezis 0]

It it my opinion that Bush Jr. is being "influenced" by Bush Sr. in all decisions that are made. After all, it is normal that a son would goto a father for advice especially a father with experience as president of the United States.

I agree.

 

Anyone who argues that the war in Iraq was started without ANY self serving reasons must be very niave. Oil was a certainly a factor, and also personal financial gains. Yes, part of the reason may have been to help Iraqi people but who really knows how big a part that was.

There are still no proof for this. I haven't heard that American people has been taking the oil from Iraq. Also, the US doesn't sell more oil because of this.

 

The Iraqi people share a common hatred of the US because they screwed up their country allowing Saddam to get into power just to profit from the country's oil.

George W. Bush was not president when "US screwed up their country allowing Saddam to get into power". This thread is about George W. Bush.

 

Maybe, Jr. is just trying to right a wrong and didn't quite execute as well as he had planned...

 

Notice from wassie:

Edited quote tags

Edited October 11, 2005 by wassie (see edit history)

[wild20 0]

Oh, but I see you all like Clinton! And he was even worse than bush. Look at what he did. Bush has tried to handle the countrie's terrorism problems the best he could. Look at what has happened, we have natural disasters and gas shortages, if it was Clinton, he would just break down and cry and resign. Bush has handled this with the best of his ability. You guys would rather stick with an adulterer. We should be thankful to at least have a strong leader even if he doesn't always make the best decisions.

[serenity 0]

Hi im from Britain but i do watch the the news- sad really..but ive noticed that he does act like a stupid guy trust me there is a reason for people hating him. i swear that some people lost jobs and the 9/11. What kind of president is he for letting this all happen?

[Cesto Ode 0]

Well Apart from he has gone to war with every country possible!

[andres 0]

i live in Uruguay (in South America) and i don't know what TV and newspapers tell you in the USA, but if they could make the 59 million people re-elect a guy who had previously accessed to the presidence through a fraud (in 2000).i mean, Bush, is an idiot (somebody who says in a speech "All our imports come from foreign countries", or something like that, can't be too smart), and the american people voted him. - did you see what he did when he learnt about 9-11 disasters? he sat down in a school class for long, long minutes, in silence. - he started a war in Afghanistan, killing thousands of civils with the excuse of find Bin Laden and bring down the Taliban government. did you know that the Talibans were appointed there 10 years ago by the American government, that promised lots of money and later didn't give it to them? did you know that that was the 9-11 attacks main reason? (more than religion stuff) RESULT: they couldn't find Osama and they put a puppet government in Afghanistan which (oh, coincidence!) lets Bush make an pipeline through the country. - then, 3 years ago, he started a new war against Saddam Hussein, because Bush said that Saddam had "weapons of mass destructions". today we all know that it was just a lie to get help (or a help that would glorify the war and the patriotism) and invade Iraq to get the oil.who gave Bush the right to invade a country? Himself? Even the United Nations didn't give him permission to do anything about that? (and believe me, UN is another lie, if you research a bit about it, you'll find that nothing can be allowed or disallowed without the vote of seven or eight countries, that use to follow USA opinion usually).i have already told you the reason: oil. in the world there is less and less oil. Venezuela doesn't sell more oil to the USA, so they needed to find a new seller.the result is another puppet government in the world, lots of the Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian, Assyrian and etc. cultures' art has been destroyed during the war, and a divided country: the ones who suck American socks and the ones who fight for a REALLY independient country.i know i didn't say anything about other major items, like Katrina hurricane disaster and the reaction of Bush, or that the company contracted to rebuild Bagdad, one of the owners is George H. Bush (G. W. Bush's father), etc. just a note: BUSH IS NOT 2nd. HITLER. i'm not supporting Hitler ideas, but he was one of the most smart presidents the world has had. he was a son of a b**ch, i know, but you can't say he was an idiot. after the I World War, Germany had to pay for the damage of the world and many other fines. that took Germany to a hard crisis, and the German people saw in nazi their solution. and well, economically, it did. Hitler powered the German industry like no one did, but began the National-Socialism (Nazi philosophy) had other ideas, too. all the discrimination stuff, and the idea that they had to be the kings of the world, etc. Hitler remained as the Germany leader after the II World War began, because he had a huge popularity: he made lots of social progress in his country (he used to found a school per week).anyway, he was very intelligent, but he had a philosophy that, personnally, i don't share (and i hope no one of you does, anyway, i won't discriminate if you do, because i just would become a discriminator, and it's not my way to be).

[Ryo 0]

It's not the president's fault 9/11 happened and the nerve of you to think that. It was the american peoples fault people like you and me that think the united states is infalliable. We are cocky and people say on no no one could attack us we are the united states and people like the terroist's point this out and make us self destruct. Luckily some people know that they are doing this and they are the ones that keep the united states from self destructing. why is it that everytime something bad happens it is the american citizens tedency to always blame it on the president. And espically bush because he is a republican. People say he cheeted on the election he did not he was voted in fairly by his peers the american citizens. If you didnt vote you have no right to critisize him or what he does.