I am not trying to offend anyone with the following paragraphs, I am merely expressing one of my thoughts on the premise of Jesus being real.I believe there was a man named Jesus Christ back in the time when the Romans ruled Jersualem and Herod was the overseer. However, could he not in reality be someone who was taken in my the Roman government and then processed and brain-washed by them until he was willing to do whatever they whished of him.If you look in the Bible there is an incosistenacy if 18 years. What went on during those years? Personally I believe that Jesus was abducted as an adolescent along with his mom (Mary) and father (Joeseph) and taken back to Rome. Once there i believe he was possibly tortured, but defiently brain-washed, along with his parents to carry out Roman orders. Also in on the Romans plot was John the Baptist, and all of Jesus Disciples; Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, Simon, Judas, Andrew, James, Philip, Bartholomew, Thomas, James, and Peter. They were all part of the plot. Why would Herod hesitate such a rabble rouser like John the Baptist? Because he knew, he knew that John was merely making it easier for Jesus to Convert all the Jews to his way of thinking and taking the fight fully out of them. John was supposed to live, but to keep the falsity up, he had to execute him for that wretched woman. The Pharosees knew the truth, being well educated men, they were also well connected and had heard of the plot a fwe years before the reemergence of Jesus, that was why at every turn they were there to confrony him and tried to prove him wrong, it was merely through the skewed writings of the "disciples" that people have come to believe them as stubborn and unreceptive of change. However they were actually very accepting and had at first taken this plot in stride, trusting to the intelligence and faith of their community. Unfortunetly Jesus was very persuasive and, as he was of the line of David the Jews jumped to conclusions and praised him as their savior. Just as the Romans had wanted.Now we come to Pontious Pilot and the "Cruxifiction" of Jesus. Pontious Pilot and the Pharosees had begun to talk over the last year of Jesus' life and both came to the conclusion that the emperor was doing something competly immoral and trying to destroy the first and only true religion of the time with false words and a false messiah. Also Pontious Pilot was really a Jew, he had converted to Judaism many years before word of Jesus had reached him, and when he did hear of the plot he had become outraged and had moved along certain paths which led him to the job in Jerusalem, enabling him to prevent the rise of this false prophet.In his effort to stop this false messiahs message he bribes one of the "disciples," Judas, whom he gets to tell where Jesus is. During the exchange of money, Judas let slip to one of the guards that Jesus won't be in jail for long because he will be breaking him out. The guard returned to Pontious Pilot with this information and this leads to the scene outside the prison with the release of Jesus or the other prisoner(his name escapes me at the moment). When the Jews choose the other prisoner, who is a drunk, and most likely be thrown back into jail the next day, Jesus realizes that the "jig is up" so to say. He then resigns himself to his coming execution.What had happened during the time of his arrest and the gathering of the mob was that Pontious Pilot and the Pharosees, along with the help of Judas and Peter(yes Peter, the judge of those coming into the gates of heaven) they told the Jews the truth about Jesus and the plot he had been involved with and how the Roman emperor had facilitated the whole thing. He aslo told them that the situation was one that Jesus had unknowingly made, he had believe that he was really doing this in the name of his God, but it was jus the insidious messages that years of Roman torture had left inside his mind. He had tried to convince them to let him live and merely keep him under a form of house arrest, but the Jewish population was so incsensed at being duped in such a large, overt fashion they called for his death and Pontious Pilot although saddened and disgusted complied.After hsi cruxifiction Jesus didnt really stay upon the hill until his death, during the natural earthquake that happened, a small group of his followers ran up and took him down, while replacing his body with another. So when Jesus rose agian, he really had never died, and had been removing the fake body when the two women found him inside the tomb. Becuase of this, these two women essintially caused the rise of Christianity and the hatred of the Jews.That is one of my many theories on Jesus and his being.Once more i do not mean to offend anyone or their religion, this is just one of my many theroies on Jesus Christ.
Wow.......... to say the least.I don't know a wealth of what's in the text books ( but how cares about that, it's writing, any drunk fool could have written at any time, or modified to there liking, or changed through time and probably has ).Anyway to my point, where do you deduct this all from, I'm assuming from information, supposedly known throughout the world, of course for someone like me, I'm lost as I don't know all the *written* history lol.
That is the funniest story i have ever read. Send it to the Catholic pope and see what he says,
. No the story that he was crucified is true. The reason was that the Roman republic wanted to prove the the Jews that Multiple gods existed and not one. Everything else is a bunch of baloney. Common why did it take so many years to write the bible and not a week or so. Why are Christians divided on what their true religion is? Honestly, i despise talking about religion because there is always a person who will persist to prove that i am wrong. Gotta say very interesting story. Not true but funny and personally i might send a copy to the pope.Cheers,LevisP.S. I know this doesn't concern you but I'm gonna be in Las Vegas at the strip for new years. Leaving tomorrows at 5AM Pacific time. Weho.
Well there were many early christian sects that believed Jesus was an ordinary man inspired by God . In fact Josephus the Jewish historian actually mentions Jesus and his subsequent crucifixion whilst writing the rule of Tiberius. Early Christianity was a highly fragments religion due to the diversity of views expressed by Jesus's apostles and his subseqent followers. Hence by th 2nd century AD there were several hundred Christian splinter groups with different views on Christ. The richest and most powerful fo which was the Church in Rome. Som groups favoured Jewish influences whilst others wanted to completely detach themselves from Judaism. In many cases different sects taught from different gospels and even wrote gospels themselves. The new testament was eventually complied by the christian church in Rome and it was the major leaders that chose which gospels (there are about twenty circulating at the time) appeared in the canonical works. Hence all the non-canonical works were deemed to be heretical. The gospels chosen were not suprisingly the ones written to advance the divinity of Jesus. Many gospels such as the gospel of th Ebionites did not contain the tradition nativity story. Instead they claimed that Jesus was born in Nazareth as a mortal man with a completely normal conception and birth. It was during his time as a preacher that Jesus was chosen by God to be his vessel n earth. The Holy spirit possesed Jesus through his adult life and enabled his to spread the word of God. Unfortunately many of the other gospels (deemed Gnostic Gospels as many were written by the Gnostics) have long since disappeared because they were no longer produced after the 3rd century. In recent years important discoveries such as the discovery and restoration of the Gospel of Judas have shed new light upon the heretical texts that the church was so keen to suppress. The Gospel of Judas actually defends Judas' actions as it was all part of Jesus's divine plan to die for the people. He could only do so if Judas betrayed him to the Romans and Judas was promised a place in heaven for his deeds. So I think Jesus was a rather unremarkable man who change the history by his remarkable teachings perhaps he did have a divine spark in him.
Do you have sources for things such as Pilot was a Jew? I've never heard that before. Alot of your info is NOT in a bible, atleast a Catholic one. I've never heard of the other prisoner being a drunk. I've been taught that he was a murderer.
Why would a Jew follow Roman orders. It just doesn't make sense. Look at the history (ex Masada).
Ive got a question for you. If Jesus was a "false messiah", how could he / the Romans, perform all of the miracles? The Romans were powerful, but they couldn't bring people back to life.Judas approaches the Pharisees himself, and the agree on a price, for the capture of Jesus.
Now we come to Pontious Pilot and the "Cruxifiction" of Jesus. Pontious Pilot and the Pharosees had begun to talk over the last year of Jesus' life and both came to the conclusion that the emperor was doing something competly immoral and trying to destroy the first and only true religion of the time with false words and a false messiah. Also Pontious Pilot was really a Jew, he had converted to Judaism many years before word of Jesus had reached him, and when he did hear of the plot he had become outraged and had moved along certain paths which led him to the job in Jerusalem, enabling him to prevent the rise of this false prophet.
In his effort to stop this false messiahs message he [Pilot] bribes one of the "disciples," Judas, whom he gets to tell where Jesus is.
Also If Pilot wanted to get rid of this "false messiah" why did he pass off Jesus to Herrod (King of the Jews at the time)?
Well if you could reverse engineer the world back to that point while maintining your life you could find out lol.People betray people everyday, even religious people, why would that surprise you.
I'm not offended, just a little suprised. I've heard a lot of theories before but that one definately takes the cake.
I'll start from the beginning. Historical evidence shows there really was a man named Jesus who lived in the early AD. Most people accept that. The real question however, is whether he was who he said he was.
There are several possiblities.
Jesus was a liar.
Jesus was brainwashed.
Jesus was just a good man.
Jesus was insane.
Jesus was really God.
The are probably others, but most of them fit under one of those categories. Before I continue I will say I'm 18, have grown up in the church, and am definately not an expert. But, I'm not stupid either. In the very least, consider what I have to say.
Lee Strobel has written an exellent book about this very topic. Case for Faith
Strobel grew up as an avid athiest and became a reporter in Chicago. His wife became a Christain and he set out on a quest to prove that the Bible was a lie, that Jesus wasn't God, and ultimately that God didn't exist. As he progressed through his research, he reached the opposite conclusions. I highly recommend reading his book. But I will make an attempt to add to this discussion here.
The first thing mirdux mentioned was that there was an inconsistancy of 18 years in the Bible. This is not true. Actually the Bible is the most accurate historical document ever created. Errors (other than mispellings) have yet to be found. But yes there are roughly 18 years where the Bible records nothing of Jesus. The gospels imply Jesus was learning, working as a carpenter, and living the life of a Jew. Why he choose to begin his ministry when he was about 30 we don't know.
Could the Romans have brainwashed Jesus during that time? Mabye, but not likely. The Jews were one of the most troblesome tributaries of the Roman Empire. The Jews beliefs made it difficult to exercise Roman Law and since the Jews believed it was their divine right to posess the Holy Land, they were rebelious. When Jesus began his ministry, many Jews thought he was going to overthrow the Romans and rallied behind him. If He had been brainwashed, why would the Romans have used Him to create more problems for them?
John the Baptist was not in cohots with the Romans. The reason he lived so long is because God wanted him to and because Herod didn't have a ligitmate excuse to execute him because John had committed no crime. But the opportunity did indeed come and Herod had his head chopped off and served on a plater.
Mirdux makes the point that John helped Jesus and Jesus pacified the Jews and "took the fight out of them." As explained in the previous paragraphs, Jesus did not take any fight out of them. In fact he aroused it more than ever before.
Now as for the Pharasees. The Pharasees were a self appointed Jewish sect who worked closely with the Priests and were the most knowledgable men in the community. They worked relentlessly to protect the faith and keep themselves from sinning. Some of them even walked while looking at their feet so that they would not see a pretty woman and lust. They carried bruises on their forhead as a result of not looking where they were going. These men also worked closely WITH the Romans. They had power and their power corrupted them. The Pharasees had a close audience with the ruling Roman (Pilate at this time) because if Pilate wanted to stay in power, he had to keep peace with the Jews, and the best way to do that would be to befriend the Pharasees. The Pharasees knew the only way to get what they wanted and more power was to be close to the Romans who ruled the known world.
The Pharasees were so focused on the laws of Moses and the little picky rules, they missed the big picture. So when Jesus came around preaching a message which seemed like the exact opposite of what Moses wrote in the Torah, they jumped all over him and tried to use their power to get him killed for blasphemy. Christ specifically pointed them out and 'challenged' them because he saw their hypocracy and how they led the Jews and was horrified by it. The Pharasees angered the public and eventually managed to get Jesus killed.
I'll back track a second and discuss the disciples. The twelve disciples were nobodies. Completely and entirely outcasts. Every Jewish boy had the opportunity to become learned men and study under Rabii. This was what every Jew worked toward. But it wasn't easy. They had to have memorized the Torah by age 10. If they couldn't do that, then they were given until age 13. Those who failed took on their father's occupation as a LAST RESORT. If the Romans were going to 'choose' disciples for Jesus, they wouldn't choose the worst, most powerless, outcasts of the lot. But Jesus did and in three years turned them into some of the most influencial men in Jewish history.
Back to the cricifiction. So the Jews were all riled up and wanted Jesus cricified. Pilate couldn't find anything wrong with Jesus so he turned him over to the Jews. Pilate then washed his hands. Most ignore this little fact, but this is significant in the Roman Empire. Washing hands after passing judgement signifies that Pilate had nothing to do with the man and Jesus' blood was not his responsibility. The Romans didn't brainwash Jesus. Instead, they wanted nothing to do with the man!
(this is getting long, i'll finish in just a second so bear with me)
So they strung him up and he died. Guards were present and there was no way anyone could have 'stolen the body,' much less put a different one on the cross. The Roman crucifiction system was the worst way to kill a man in the world and still may be. Nails were specifically placed through the wrists severing a very sensative nerve to cause excruciating pain in the hands. The same was done with the ankles. Then the man was left to die. This usually took THREE DAYS. The man died of suffocation literally. His muslces would get tired and he couldn't pull himself up any more to open his lungs to breathe. The lungs of a crucified man literally colapsed due to the way he was nailed to the cross. Christ died much earlier due to his whipping and loss of blood.
Two guards were then placed at the tomb because the Romans feared Jesus' disciples would try to steal the body and claim he'd risen from the dead. Roman guards worked under the threat that if they messed up, they would be executed. These men were the best trained soldiers in the world and probably used to trouble since the Jews were troublesome. Some how they both were unconsious or deeply asleep at the same time. and Jesus rose from the dead.
Now the Romans had a problem. Jesus soon gathered many followers and this religion started to poison the Roman Law system. The Romans would have done EVERYTHING possible to dispute the religion. They would have produced a body to show Jesus hadn't risen if there had been one to produce. The Pharasees would have done the same.
Logically the disciples couldn't have stolen it because they were scarred out of their minds and ran away and locked themselves in a secluded house during those three days. They wanted nothing to do with Jesus, because they thought they'd get killed like he was.
I won't go into the other theories i mentioned at the beginning since this is already quite long. Hopefully that shed some light on this uh most unique theory i've ever heard and perhaps made it's reader think twice about believing random theories anyone comes up with.
I hope I haven't offended anyone. Oh and sorry for the mispellings. I am like the worst speller in the world, especially when I'm typing without spell check.
One last thing, the Gospel of Judas has been proven a LIE and was written by the gnostics several hundered years after Jesus died.
While one man might not have been able to prove jesus and god as a lie. Was he able to prove them as existing, would be a very interesting question
.Where there's a gap of 18 years, that's a considerable amount of time, on average we supposedly change quite alot in over 7 years and that's more than double that.If it were feasible that the romans brainwashed him, they had a lot of time to plan such an event, it may have just very well ended up the way they wanted it, look at the world now..... or it also could have backfired.
Well, the first thing I should say is that there is no doubt that Jesus existed. Neither do I think that it was an evil plans of the Romans, but I'm a Christian. It would be an impossible job to actually train Jesus to teach the Jews so many wise words. And by the way, what about all the sick people that got healed, the blind people that could see again, the deaf who could hear? How would that ever be possible without him being somewhere equal to God? When he healed the people who couldn't walk, he spoke: Stand up and walk. And so the person did. He was fully able to walk in a short time.Also, I do not think that the Romans wouldn't be able to let someone study the bible. Of course it would be possible, but it's impossible for a non-believer to understand most of the things that are in the Bible.I don't believe it was an evil Roman plan, but you can see it's pretty logical why I think that. I believe that Jesus was our saviour and that he died for our sins. And I'm not offended, since this is just general discussion and not just to bug off the whole Christian religion.
MediYama:That is assuming those events actually happened and as they were described, keep in mind how many things through history have been twisted (and proven to be so) even that far back.Funny thing is, I can grab a doctor and show life saving before your very eyes, but you can't find someone to magically make someone see again.Why did all these things just dissapear, and now science generally is doing the bulk of miracle work eh. Maybe now were capable of all this on our own, there is no need for him? wonder if anyone's ever considered that one.Evil roman planning, it could have been other nations etc involved as well. Many possibilities.
maybe he had a body double. the double got executed and the real one shows up at the tomb. the guards are so scared lol... the pass out.. they then take the bbody and say Jesus is alive. This makes more sense i think then people switching bodys on the cross. ! the would have to remove the nails, 2 they would have to nail someone up... that would take sometime and would be loud.
It's really hard to tell, but I am opne to the fact that there are some information that the people up there are keeping to themselves. I've watched a few documentaries about the mysteries of the bible, the part that really got me is where they Jesus Christ disappeared for several years.. hmmm*think think think*
I am catholic and I would like to say the least that I am apalled at this. I couldn't believe some of the stuff written in there. like jesus was brain washed by the roman government. lol......that's rediculous. thanks for writing that. I needed a great laugh.
Ummm you find it ridiculous for a human being (a man in particular), to be brainwashed, yet you believe in an all mighty god that supposedly created everything (who created him/her/it?) with no proof of it being even remotely possible......Riiiigghhttttttt, that's some great logic there lmfao!!!!!
Im not exactly religous but i still think there probably was a jesus once upon a time in... forgot wot the place was called... bethlehem or something.
Ummm you find it ridiculous for a human being (a man in particular), to be brainwashed, yet you believe in an all mighty god that supposedly created everything (who created him/her/it?) with no proof of it being even remotely possible......
Riiiigghhttttttt, that's some great logic there lmfao!!!!!
"a man in particulare" what the heck?? does it matter if it's a guy or girl?? lol.
and I never said that I believe that god created everything. I believe in the teachings of Charles Darwin.
lol....way to make yourself look stupid.
"i am catholic",That being a considerably standard religion, do catholics not believe in god?Therefore my assumptions would be 100% accurate
, how can you be religious (of most types) without believing in some form of god?I haven't heard of any yet lol, certainly not christians, catholics, muslims etc.
Look at what your typing.......This is what you said: "Ummm you find it ridiculous for a human being (a man in particular), to be brainwashed, yet you believe in an all mighty god that supposedly created everything (who created him/her/it?) with no proof of it being even remotely possible......"Now Mr. Chesso, I don't remember ever saying about that I believed god created everything. I believe in Charles Darwings ( the guy who founded EVOLUTION ) theries. I DO BEILIEVE IN GOD but I don't believe he created everything. Because if he created everything then we would all start out as human beins, not as cavemen. But yet there is scientific proof of cave men and their evolution into what we are today. So before you start typing you had better know what your talking about. OK? Geeeeeesh.
Who on this earth actually uses the term "all" literally when talking about a subject that no one can prove or disprove to any extent..... I thought you were at least smarter than that
.P.S. I have been told by catholics themselves, that the religion itself believes in god and that he created basically more or less everything, or at least our beginnings.This is supposed to be a standard thing, that's what they have all been telling me, are they wrong? Or do you choose to just be different (and non catholic really).
I am very much catholic. I believe in their teachings but I just don't find any sense in the fact that "god created everything" expecialy when there is proof of evolution. now I'm not being uncatholic or anything like that. I still believe in god, I still believe in the teachings of him and, I still go to church and pray to him. to me it doesn't matter wether or not I believe that he created everything, it matters that I believe in him and worship him. am I correct??
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