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Do Aliens Really Exist? Hot Debate! do they really exist?


qwijibow

On the meme theory

. I will laugh at it anyone who would ever believe that..


what about the meme thory do you find so hard to understand.. ?
the nursery rhyme "humpty Dumpty" is a meme.. it is taught to children, and they are encouraged to sing it over and over, it stays within the mind for there whole life, and is passed on the the next generation.

Christianity is similar, only it attempts to change the behaviour of the hosts with threats of heaen and hell.

you say you laugh at the meme theory ?

many people would laugh at the idea of talking to an imaginary friend (Preying).

many people would laugh that fully grown addults all gather once a wek to listen to very boreing stories, from a very old book, which teach you nothing that you should know from common sence.

many poeple would laugh at the idea that such a foregiving and kind god would banish you to hell for eternal suffering and torture, simply because you dont believe !

You Believe in god, Which i suppose means you think that my soul is lost to satan, and you would be doing me a great favor by converting me to christianity.

I believe you are infected with a meme, and that meme would like ot spread to me too.

You believe that the answers to everything are in that book, and therefore aliens do not exist.

I believe that as humans, we simply dont know, and we should therefore use what we know, with logic.

Logic vs Faith.



I suppose we will never end this disscusion because i cannot accept how you can ignore logic and physical evidence.

and i suppose you dont understand how dare i argue againsed an all mighty god that could banish me to helll ???

iGuest

You believe that the answers to everything are in that book

You believe all the answers are in your unexperienced, unwise and mortal mouth.
"That book" has spirtitual and historical significance to Christians. There isn't one thing in the Bible that has been proved wrong, both moraly and historically. It is one of the most reliable and oldest historical sources in existence. Even non-christian scientist, archaeologist, historians,etc use it for reference. You obviously haven't read this Book, because if you had, you would realize what a merciful and loving being God is.

many people would laugh that fully grown addults all gather once a wek to listen to very boreing stories, from a very old book, which teach you nothing that you should know from common sence.

Whats wrong with an old book? There's nothing boring about these stories, they probably just anger you, bacause you don't live the moral life taught in these stories. Common Sense! How about the Ten Commandments, that govern the whole entire Wester World. Do not kill, steal, love your neighbor as yourself,etc...
Do you find error in these commandments? Christianity is what brought justice and morality to this world.

qwijibow

You believe all the answers are in your unexperienced, unwise and mortal mouth.

Who was it who said "True intelligence, is th realisation that you know almost nothing".
I believe that we dont know these answers, but can only speculate on logic.
whats unwise about that ???

There isn't one thing in the Bible that has been proved wrong

That is because every time science says somthing like for example, "there were not enough humans on the ark to give a deep enough gene pool, and the resulting in-breeing would have lead to very very very poor health, and abnormality"Then the christans use an answer like.. it was gods magic.

how many fish to feed such a huge crowd ??? mathematically proven impossable...
but the christans say "it was a miracle"

how can science possably prove you wrong when you have a "get out of jail free" card called Miricles ????

Plus... cummon. Evolution !
Evidence for evolution....
1) fossiles.
2) remains of early man.
3) scientists study evolution by watching bacerica evolve in dishes.
4) selectiv breeding forcing evolution.

You obviously haven't read this Book, because if you had, you would realize what a merciful and loving being God is.

I give money to charity, ive never intentionally hurt someone, ive never stolen, klled, or anything bad i can think of...

however, i have had pre-marital sex with my girlfriend, i dont believe in god, i will never ask forgivness for my sins,because i have not commited any, and your meme cannot guilt me into thinking i have.

therefore, your god will send me to hell, to be tortured for all eternaty, in agonsising torment and pain.

along with all homosexuals, and people who were brought up as a different religon.

how petty is that !
a god that reward or punish you depending on an errelevant beliefe.

Remember... Death disease and suffering is gods punishment for the dissobediance of 2 people, for eating from the wrong tree.

what kind of sick god tests someone's faith by demainding the sacrifice of his son ???

The good things i do are motivated by my kindness,,, they are not motivated by fear of hell, or anything else.

Do you find error in these commandments?

Anyone who doesnt know murder is wrong is serverely mentally deranged. this is common sence.



You obviously haven't read this Book

as a young child i went to religous schools...
i was a friend of the son of a priest, and was frequently invited church activites.

ve not read the whole book... just parts of it that we were encouraged to study between the fun activites.

At first i believed, i was too young to question what those i trusted (school teachers and the guys running the church) told me.

fortunatly as i got older and wiser, i realised what it all was.

I have nothing againsed christians... they thought that by recruiting me at a young age, (too young to think for myself) they were saving my soul.

If there is a god, the god that you descirbe as forgiving will not torture me because i used independant thought, and decided to live by my own morrals.

madcrow

I don't see any reason why there COULDN'T be aliens. After all space is so large that out of all the stars in all the galaxies, I find it hard to believe that ours is the only one that has a planet with life circling it. That sid, I find it highly unlikely that there will be anything even remotely resembling us humans out there. Evolution probably won't have worked the exact same way in any other place. So when we finanlly find aliens, they may turn out to be hyper-intelligent slime molds or something...


saxsux

This thread is so interesting! I'm learning tons about science and religion that I never knew before. I'd love to post my own opinion, but I don't have time @ the mo...


adamsgi

Let's get the thread back on topic.

It is arrogant to think that we are the only intelligent living beings in this Universe. This self-importance is borne out of religions, and mainly the Judeo-Christian-Islam traditions.

But enough bashing of Christianity. They have their views, which they quite obviously think the highest both morally and spiritually. And after all, that is their prerogative. I personally am a Buddhist, which I consider to be a hundred-fold more moral than Christianity. Quite clearly in the Lotus Sutra (one of the last teachings the Buddha expounded) he states that he has been teaching Buddhism since time without beginning (via past lives etc) and that when he isn't here, he is somewhere else in the universe. Buddhism and Hinduism both believe in life on other planets.

The Dogon - a tribe from Mali in Africa - have baffled scientists:

The first Western scientists to visit and study the Dogon people were French anthropologists Drs Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen, who initially made contact with them in 1931, and continued to research them for the next three decades, culminating in a detailed study conducted between 1946-1950. During their work, these anthropologists documented the traditional mythology and sacred beliefs of the Dogon, which included an extraordinary body of ancient lore regarding Sirius the brilliant, far-distant Dog Star.
Their priests told them of a secret Dogon myth about the star Sirius (8.6 light years from the Earth. The priests said that Sirius had a companion star that was invisible to the human eye. They also stated that the star moved in a 50-year elliptical orbit around Sirius, that it was small and incredibly heavy, and that it rotated on its axis.

Sirius - which we now call Sirius A - was not seen through a telescope until 1862 and was not photographed until 1970.

The Dogon name for Sirius B (Po Tolo) consists of the word for star (tolo) and "po," the name of the smallest seed known to them. By this name they describe the star's smallness -- it is, they say, "the smallest thing there is."

They also claim that it is "the heaviest star," and white.

The tribe claims that Po is composed of a mysterious, super-dense metal called sagala  which, they declare, is heavier than all the iron on Earth. Not until 1926 did Western science discover that this tiny star is a white dwarf  a category of star characterised by very great density. In the case of Sirius B, astronomers have estimated that a single cubic metre of its matter weighs about 20,000 tonnes.

Many artifacts were found describing the star system, including a statue examined by Dieterlen that is at least 400 years old.

They go on to say that it has an is elliptical orbit, with Sirius A at one foci of the ellipse (as it is), that the orbital period is 50 years (the actual figure is 50.04 +/- 0.09 years), and that the star rotates on its own axis (it does). The Dogon also describe a third star in the Sirius system, called "Emme Ya" ("Sorghum Female"). In orbit around this star, they say, is a single satellite. To date, Emme Ya has not been identified by astronomers.

In addition to their knowledge of Sirius B, the Dogon mythology includes Saturn's rings, and Jupiter's four major moons. They have four calendars, for the Sun, Moon, Sirius, and Venus, and have long known that planets orbit the sun.

Dogon astronomical lore goes back at least 5000 years when they originated from near the (modern day) Suez canal, in Egypt. The Dogon say their astronomical knowledge was given to them by the Nommos, amphibious beings sent to Earth from Sirius for the benefit of mankind. The name comes from a Dogon word meaning 'to make one drink', and the Nommos are also called 'Masters of the Water', the 'Monitors', and the 'Teachers'.

The Dogon tells the legend of the Nommos, awful-looking beings who arrived in a vessel along with fire and thunder.

After they arrived here - they put out a reservoir of water onto the Earth then dove into the water.

There are references in the oral traditions, drawings and cuneiform tablets of the Dogons, to human looking beings who have feet but who are portrayed as having a large fish skin running down their bodies.

The Nommos were more fishlike than human, and had to live in water. They were saviors and spiritual guardians: "The Nommo divided his body among men to feed them; that is why it is also said that as the universe "had drunk of his body," the Nommo also made men drink. He gave all his life principles to human beings."

The Nommo was crucified and resurrected and in the future will again visit the Earth, this time in human form. Later he will assume his amphibious form and will rule the world from the waters.

Dogon mythology is known only by a number of their priests, and is a complex system of knowledge. Such carefully guarded secrets would not be divulged to friendly strangers very easily. If the star Emme Ya is eventually discovered in the Sirius system, this would give considerably weight to the Dogon's story.

The Nommos, who could live on land but dwelled mostly in the sea, were part fish, like merfolk (mermaids and mermen).

Similar creatures have been noted in other ancient civilizations -- Sumer, Babylonia's Oannes, Acadia's Ea, Sumer's Enki, and Egypt's goddess Isis.

It was from the Nommos that the Dogon claimed their knowledge of the heavens.


(Apologies for the long quote - sounds to me a lot like ET-Christianity, however, note the 5000 year history - predating most of the Bible)

The argument earlier that people wouldn't believe in aliens if it wasn't in the media is obviously flawed when you look into ancient mythology and cultures. You will find that the majority of ancient cultures believe in extraterrestrials.

If God made the universe just for us, why did he create it so big? Of course no one can answer that, apart from the stock answer "Because he did/could"

And one last thing.

God has given humans free will

If God gave people free will, why does he punish you if you do the wrong thing? That is either blackmail and/or coercion, not free will.

qwijibow

If God gave people free will, why does he punish you if you do the wrong thing? That is either blackmail and/or coercion, not free will.

Good point !

but im guessing the christian answer would be, that if free will didnt exist, and god chose what we all did, then no1 would be evil, and hell would be pretty empty.

about the cubic meter of mass weighing 20,000 tonnes.... in what gravitational field are we talking about ? the earth's or the stars ?

are you sure a scientist said that ? in abcence of a common value for gravity, you should measure dencity (the amount of mass per cubit meter)

d'vampress

I don't believe in them.As a Catholic, I extremely believe that super-natural beings don't exist.But if ever i'd see one,don't worry,I'd go ahead and tell you. That's if I'm still alive and breathing. To see is to believe man.


Caderay

I believe there is life beyond earth, even though there is no proof suggesting there is. Yet, I find it hard to believe we're the only world with life on it in the universe. The universe seems too huge for us to be alone. I don't know about little green aliens but I do believe it's possible that there is intelligent life beyond our galaxy. I hope we're not alone, because it would be nice to see another species, along as they aren't hostile.


qwijibow

Plus... Sooner or later, our sun is going to go nova, and we will all be intergalactic asylum seekers.... (note to self: in the event or a super nova, dont expose passport to direct sunlight)lol, made myself laugh, how lame.


ndhill

I'm not touching this debate with a 10 foot pole. One does not crack all the mysteries of a 17 billion-year-old universe with an 8 ounce brain.I will say however, that our society's current concept of alien-life is really quite laughable when you look at all of the very terrestrial characteristics imposed on little gray aliens, and all of star trek's aliens who happen to look and behave exactly like humans with the exception of some foam-latex facial prosthetics. If you want examples of entirely different ecosystems, look at our own oceans beyond where sunlight can penetrate. As there are different environmental requirements, there are different adaptations. Tube worms surviving off from energy expelled from thermal vents, etc. We can't even really say if intelligence to the point of sentience is a favorable adaptation yet as humans, as we exist now, have only been around for about 50,000 years. Horseshoe crabs have been around for about 300 million years. We can't even say that we're the most successful form of multicellular life now as copepods represent the majority of the planets biomass. Evolutionary success is measured by environmental compatibility and how well an organism can achieve equilibrium. Organisms that can’t keep up or consume too much are always short lived.


Mahanon

Yes I believe that other being exist, it is a large Galaxy/Universe after all, it can't just be a random occurance, there has got to be other life giving planets out there and also there has to be civilizations out there as well, it not that hard to comprehend. This world can only think of itself at the moment but one day they will realize this is a truth, not just some random occurance......


iGuest

ALIENS DO NOT EXIST! I saw a documentary in Discovery Channel once. The went to area 51 and the got a glimpse of a man made UFO controlled by man flying. The Area 51 officials said that the UFO is for spying and locating suspected terrorist. When asked about those big UFO's flyin at night in a group of four, they said: CONFIDENTIAL!This really truly amazingly prove that ALIENS DO NOT EXIST. Only gohost and satan's exist bu NOT ALIENS!


Atheos

People live on Earth for let's say 35,000 years. Universe have million years. Also Earth won't exist long because sun is getting bigger and will heat Earth so much. So the chance that 'aliens' are somewhere are nothing like human age to universe age is nothing. I think that there might be or will be life on other planets in future, but the chances are not big.


mitchellmckain

Regardless, I think that the chance of us ever encountering aliens, if they actually exist, is very small.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think KitKat has the right idea here. Considering the size of the universe it is unthinkable that there is not other intellegent life in the universe but this very argument that make their existence likely also makes encountering them just as unlikely. We now know that planets are common but all the ones we know about make the systems they exist in hostile to life because of their large size and wild orbits (try to imagine Jupiter in an orbit that crosses the orbits of earth, venus and mercury). Double stars, variable stars, and flare stars are also common making the suitable conditions for life even more rare.

 

Of course Kit Kats argument (from the Discovery Channel) based on history would only work if advanced civilizations were usually shortlived or that none have achieved civilization much earlier than we have.

 

But we can also add the enormous difficulties in the energy and time requirements of interstellar travel to the problem which makes encounters nearly impossible.

 

I will say however, that our society's current concept of alien-life is really quite laughable when you look at all of the very terrestrial characteristics imposed on little gray aliens, and all of star trek's aliens who happen to look and behave exactly like humans with the exception of some foam-latex facial prosthetics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Talk about laughable aliens has any seen the movie "Signs" with Mel Gibson in it. I thought that movie was one of the worst ever made. I couldn't stop laughing through the whole thing.

 

Well holliwood aliens definitely disappointing, but there are books which have done considerable better.

 

For different biology and psychology there is "Speaker for the Dead" by Orson Scott Card.

 

For different psychology and sociology there is "Hunter of Worlds", "Cukoos Egg", and "The Faded Sun" by C J Cherryh.

 

And for little bit of everything there is "Mote in God's Eye" by Niven and Pournelle.


ndhill

Yeah. Signs had it's... Umm... Moments. It did have a nice 'Night of the Living Dead' thing going for it at one point. Anyway, speaking of books, I'd recommend anything by Arthur C. Clarke. He's the author of 2001, 2010, 2061, and finally 3001. These are an excellent series of books that portray space travel very realistically. Coming from a scientific background, Clarke has a pretty substantial well of ideas to draw from and nothing he describes is ever out of the realm of believability. You’ve probably at least heard of 2001 since Stanley Kubrick made a film adaptation, and of course it had the Famous Hal9000. The first was written in the 60s and it had very surprisingly progressive ideas towards computerization, artificial intelligence, space-born, propulsion and ideas on how to make space more livable like means of generating artificial gravity by centrifugal force. The last three books deal with the development of life on Jupiter's moon, Europa, and explore the idea that because Europa is pretty much one vast ocean with an icy shell, it may already be the host to complex multi cellular animal life. There’s a nice scene where a giant mollusk type creature emerges and tries to drag a lander undernieth the ice because it’s attracted to it’s lights. It deals with a lot of themes found in exobiological study. What does life need to perpetuate itself and what are ideal conditions, etc.


Tobias

I'd have to agree with tcave. I also believe in the bible and I've never heard of anything in the bible supporting evidence of aliens. I think you're right about the UFO's too. The government may be doing that to bring some media into the matter. I think it would be cool if there really were aliens though.


ASR1405241491

UFO's............Bible.............Theyre all stuff people make up because without hope, there is no meaning for life....People want to believe that there is UFO's so they could keep themselves fasinated and curious... People want to believe religion to give them a reason to live on until theyre old... Without religion a lot of people would probably kill themselves because who wants to live their life if they know once they die then its the end... But ignore me thats just how I feel... everybody is entitled to their own beliefs and feelings.... Freedom of Choice!!Chin chin..


mitchellmckain

Yeah. Signs had it's... Umm... Moments. It did have a nice 'Night of the Living Dead' thing going for it at one point. Anyway, speaking of books, I'd recommend anything by Arthur C. Clarke. He's the author of 2001, 2010, 2061, and finally 3001.

Signs... sheee.... Here are these aliens who have traveled accross the void of space from other stars and they attack by breathing poison gas on people. The swamp monster look was a little strange too. I thought the movie made the Stitch animation look realistic. The movie would have done much better leaving the guys paranoia about aliens without any basis in reality and making it all about the guy coping with his wife's death and his loss of faith.
Yeah I have read a few of Clarke's books. "Rendezvous with Rama" is a favorite I have read many times. I only read "Childhood's End" but I never forgot it. But neither of these (nor 2001 etc) was much of an exploration of what aliens might be like.

Artluo100

Well I remember once somebody told me that we have been sending signals into space for a long time now and we haven't received a signal back. Even though there are aliens, by the time they receive our signals from earth, man kind itself will be extinct.



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