Windows 8

[yordan 10]

so you're saying that running a Guest OS will be no different in performance (including lags) then actually installing it on the drive itself?I think the opposite

I think that there should be at least a small effect.
Vmware people claim that there is no difference in perfomance between a virtual machine using a given hardware, and the same operating system using the same hardware.
Some colleagues claim the same thing. Else, the whole cloud thing could not work, if too much power would be lost.
And, of course, if the thing is made correctly, this could be true.
Crosoft Windows uses a driver of the native machine in order to access the disk.
The OS inside the virtual machine sends requests to the vmware daemons, which pass the request to the native system drivers. So, at the end, the same drivers are used the same way to access the same devices.
There could be a bug making a need of retry on the SCSI or IDE channel, which would make a loss of performance, but the bug will be solved in the next vmware release.
There could be a very simple test.
Create a 10 gig partition on a native hard drive, and make a disk benchmark test on it.
Then give that partition to a virtual machine and perform the same test.
These two tests should give the same result.
Of course, in order to be valid, the test should not be performed on a partition, but on a full disk, using the same full disk for the native system and for the virtual machine system.
If you see a difference, you are rich : you sell your test to the VM designers and help them solving the problem, and you will receive a lot of of money for that very good job.

-- EDIT --
forget this, I will contact them and I will become very rich

[manuleka 0]

I think that there should be at least a small effect. Vmware people claim that there is no difference in perfomance between a virtual machine using a given hardware, and the same operating system using the same hardware. Some colleagues claim the same thing. Else, the whole cloud thing could not work, if too much power would be lost. And, of course, if the thing is made correctly, this could be true. Crosoft Windows uses a driver of the native machine in order to access the disk. The OS inside the virtual machine sends requests to the vmware daemons, which pass the request to the native system drivers. So, at the end, the same drivers are used the same way to access the same devices. There could be a bug making a need of retry on the SCSI or IDE channel, which would make a loss of performance, but the bug will be solved in the next vmware release. There could be a very simple test. Create a 10 gig partition on a native hard drive, and make a disk benchmark test on it. Then give that partition to a virtual machine and perform the same test. These two tests should give the same result. Of course, in order to be valid, the test should not be performed on a partition, but on a full disk, using the same full disk for the native system and for the virtual machine system. If you see a difference, you are rich : you sell your test to the VM designers and help them solving the problem, and you will receive a lot of of money for that very good job. -- EDIT -- forget this, I will contact them and I will become very rich

slowness on Virtual Machines depends on the hardware running the HOST machine... don't tell me that all your VMs runs as smoothly as your HOST OS?

I have installed and played around with variety of OSes on VM... it's not as smooth as running it with a direct install to the hard-drive...

For instance, I'm currently using Windows XP Professional with VMware Workstation 8... i tested LinuxMint 13 on VMware Workstation and i notice its lagging a bit here and there... when i did a fresh install to dual boot with my XP Pro it runs like a breeze and was pretty quick too...

[Quatrux 4]

Well, separately installed LinuxMint has more resources to the hardware as they are free, when you run it through VMware, you use your hardware resources to run two operating systems, you have less RAM, less processing and etc.If you run virtual machines on a very powerful hardware with lots of ram and lots of CPU, the difference will be minimal, but as a rule, one operating system will be faster running on one CPU than two operating systems running on a dual core CPU using different threads, but the difference can be quite small and usually is much more useful and having one big server with lots of stuff is much better than having lots of servers for different things as the processing power isn't fully used and the cloud thing for example is good as you can share resources and use the existing hardware resources for lots of services.So that minimal lost of resources is really useful to fully use one machine for it's capabilities. One machine can run a lot of services and operating systems and calibrate between when, use the existing resources when available and share them.

[manuleka 0]

Well, separately installed LinuxMint has more resources to the hardware as they are free, when you run it through VMware, you use your hardware resources to run two operating systems, you have less RAM, less processing and etc. If you run virtual machines on a very powerful hardware with lots of ram and lots of CPU, the difference will be minimal, but as a rule, one operating system will be faster running on one CPU than two operating systems running on a dual core CPU using different threads, but the difference can be quite small and usually is much more useful and having one big server with lots of stuff is much better than having lots of servers for different things as the processing power isn't fully used and the cloud thing for example is good as you can share resources and use the existing hardware resources for lots of services. So that minimal lost of resources is really useful to fully use one machine for it's capabilities. One machine can run a lot of services and operating systems and calibrate between when, use the existing resources when available and share them.

exactly... and that's why i said there's a lag problem... yordan seems to think otherwise - that's its a VM issue

[yordan 10]

exactly... and that's why i said there's a lag problem... yordan seems to think otherwise - that's its a VM issue

We should not mix the problem.When my Windows host has 2 gigs free, this means that I can give 2 gigs to a virtual machine. As long as there is a lot of memory free, we are testing the cpu performance.
The disks in the PC can be accessed by a single process which exhaust the whole disk bandwidth. This means that you can comfortable work on your native host, or on your VM machine, but not simultaneously on both - except if you have fiberchannel adapters connected to a decent SAN.
So, do not mix cpu-access problems and lack of memory problem.
My friend has a 8-core laptop with 64 gigs memory, on a virtual machine he opens a big Excel file ten times faster than I do on my native XP laptop. Of course this will not make me switch to a bigger laptop, I simply know that if I had far more money, I could work far more efficiently. Simply waiting one hour costs less than finding $1000.00 in order to buy a bigger hardware!

[Nazi 0]

Windows 8 - Another good invention by Microsoft. This new version of Microsoft works on Desktops(personal,hone and business), laptops, tablets. Its been created using HTML5 and Javascript. Its home screen is just like big touchable panels like that of in windows 7 phones. From here you can manage your applications by just tapping onto it. Under that you will view the old windows features like the old taskbar, file manager and all.Windows 8 have a very nice feature where you can view two applications at a time which no other existing tablet OS have.People may require a bit of time and patience to get used to a new change. I remember how a minor change in the facebook interface would take time for me to get used to it.

[manuleka 0]

... People may require a bit of time and patience to get used to a new change. I remember how a minor change in the facebook interface would take time for me to get used to it.

exactly... but with risks like this it can either be a great or disastrous move...

[iGuest 3]

The Release Preview edition of Windows 8 has been out for more than a month now, and I'm writing here after using it extensively for this period of time. As Katrina mentioned above, people may need a little time to accept the changes that Windows 8 brings in. The biggest change obviously is the lack of a proper Start button. For two decades, the Start button has been the crucial element in the Windows interface. So if people suddenly realise that it is missing, they might not immediately like the change. As it is, people take a lot of time to accept any change in their routines, be it small or big. The absence of the small Start button is actually a HUGE change by any means. Sure, the Metro interface is slick and lots of apps run without the need of the conventional Windows Desktop. However, these features might not appeal to everyone, and most people would not be very fond of the Metro interface. They would rather like to work with the more dull, but straightforward Windows Desktop.On the plus side, Windows 8 runs very fast! Maybe this is because it is still the Release Candidate version and not the final retail release, but I remember Windows 7 RC running a little slower than Windows 8. It boots up really fast, in less than 15 seconds, and I'm good to go within 30 seconds of logging in. Of course that still doesn't compare with the time Ubuntu needs to be ready (0 seconds after logging in), but this is a huge improvement over the previous versions of Windows. So increased speed, put along with the functionality of Windows, is a very good combination for me.If the security side of the Operating System were to be taken care of, then perhaps I would definitely consider making this my primary OS some day! Sadly, we know that the security issues are not going to end anytime soon. That said, the huge market share that Windows has will definitely work in its favour, and Windows 8 will have a good reception

[manuleka 0]

... If the security side of the Operating System were to be taken care of, then perhaps I would definitely consider making this my primary OS some day! Sadly, we know that the security issues are not going to end anytime soon...

i don't think security issue will ever disappear... even Linux have security issues (not as much as Windows)

but your comments quite true... change can be a pain (initially) but users will get use to the new Metro - that is of course if everyone won't suddenly change to Linux before Win 8 release

[yordan 10]

change can be a pain (initially) but users will get use to the new Metro - that is of course if everyone won't suddenly change to Linux before Win 8 release

Standard people will first have to get used to Windows 7.
And with the pain with the "windows" button unusable when the USB keyboard is powered-off by the energy-saving policies! No keyboard and no "start" click-able button, Crosoft will have to urgently find a workaround. Maybe a "fixit" update adding a "start" button?

[manuleka 0]

Standard people will first have to get used to Windows 7. :(And with the pain with the "windows" button unusable when the USB keyboard is powered-off by the energy-saving policies! No keyboard and no "start" click-able button, Crosoft will have to urgently find a workaround. Maybe a "fixit" update adding a "start" button?

mind you i think there is (or should be) an option for defaulting classic theme (with start button)... makes the transition to metro less frustrating
Edited July 30, 2012 by manuleka (see edit history)

[yordan 10]

And also I hate these modern things that don't work. First you will have no "start" button because it's replaced by a key on your keyboard.At the same time, the hardware "keyboard" slot on the PC disappears, you have to use a USB keyboard. And third, the USB entry is disabled by the Windows operating system in order to save energy, so you loose access to your computer, you have to do a cold start. If you are lucky, because in case of bad luck the computer can restart in the exact keyboard frozen situation because it was the last "good" configuration.Gosh, I hate all these new things where hardware and software changes do not match, all the designers should put their brain together once in order to choose the things which will lead to a clean situation for the thing they are preparing us for next year of for the year after the next year!

[manuleka 0]

we use to call these changes innovation but now it's probably more like crap-ovation or something lol... but then Microsoft has quite a large share on the PC Desktop market so yea they can test user patience with their so called new design-layouts

[Logan Deathbringer 0]

At one point there was supposed to be a way to kill the Metro interface and go to a "good old" Windows desktop interface. I hope they add that back into the Retail Version when it comes out. The whole problem I see with Win8 is that its based on, and specifically designed for, Touch interfacing by the user. Granted more and more people are using tablets and Microsoft is seriously wanting a part of that market, and there are more Tcouch screen computes coming on the market for desktop use, but I don't see Touch Screen tech being a major player in the home/desktop market with in the next 3-5 years. As such I see the use of the Metro interface a major problem.Granted the Metro interface is ingenious and I personally found it fun to use when I first saw it on a phone, but if I had to use it on a daily basis on my main computer...I hate to say it but I think I would find it annoying. I had a friend who had a windows based phone with the metro interface take his phone back after 2 weeks of constant use because he decided he couldn't stand it, and switched back to an Android based phone.