A Hidden Government...? conspiracy thrill-seekers, steer clear

[HiddenKenshin 0]

First off, I'm not a conspiracy-addict. I'd liek to think of myself as a healthy young man, with a healthy, sane mind. I try not to corrupt myself with wild ideas that everything has to be blamed one someone else. I try not to be afraid of the uknown, etc...But I can't help being interested in the idea of a hidden government. International, not necessarily exclusively American. I've asked the opinion of a USAF-member, with several years of experience, and he found the idea just too unpractical to be true. No need for a hidden establishment, he believes, because it's easy enough to perform USAP's inside the "legitimate" governments. USAP's are "UNACKNOWLEDGED SPECIAL ACCESS PROJECTS". To put it more clearly, it's a project that has a special, high-level acces. And no one, not evne your superiors are to be told about it. In fact, if your superior asks you more about it, you're given the right to flat-out lie about it and deny it.Whether this is a proven and used tactic, I don't know, and I'm not claiming it to be that. But some "believers" out there do.Naturally, this directly leads to cases such as Roswell. With the salvaging of a supposed alien spacecraft, along with bodies.A year, or a year or two back, a supposed story was released under the name of serpo (http://www.serpo.org/). This is supposed to be a story, published over time, by a high level American officer, and supposedly confirmed by several anonymous sources and the like.It deals about not one crash,at the time of Roswell, but two. On the other, a living alien specimen was found hiding behind a rock. Communication was established, on a crude level, and the creature was apparently friendly, benevolent and caring. It was able to re-establish communications with it's home planet by fixing it's aircraft.Naturally, the contact was remained extremely classified, and an exchange was planned. The species "EBE", took along 12, carefully handpicked people, to live on the homeplanet of EBE for a period of 10 years. Two died, a few remained, etc... The story, for a sci-fi luvah like myself is fascinating to read. The reason why the high-level person wanted to expose this story was to initiate a non-disclosure project, much like Steven Greer did. Apparently, it was deemed to much of a difficult task to relay the info to the rest of the world, so, it's said that a plan is even still, currently in the making to break the news.On first sight, it seems ludacris. No person in his right mind would want to believe this. Then again, a succesful way to keep a certian case secret, is to counter an apparent leaking of it, with a secret of their own, a false one. Often, it would contain 20% truth and 80% lies. Combined with the alledged tactic is to make "believers" ridiculous. Linde Houwe, award winning something-or-another interviewed many people and came across a simular story, even though she didn't know about the serpo case, about a same project, except with 3 people. One died, one went insane, and one is somewhere, stashed safely away by the hidden government. µReason for me to believe that the serpo case is untrue, is that it sounds too good to be true. The EBE race is considered extremely caring, benevolent, and generous. Everything I'd want to hear was spoon-fed to me. Even though there was a plethora of scientific explanations, findings and the likes.Also, the "greys", the famous alien kind that we know of mostly, were apprently also known to these aliens as just-another-race. Other interesting findings was how the species could prosper so well. This was apparently because there were only said to be a little over half a million of these little guys. There was only one planet, one kind, one language, one culture. Thus, they were peaceful, scattered along the planet and so on.What is stressed, several times, is that people seem to have the uncanny and perhaps stupid intention to think of the universe in terms of Earth science. When a solar system is only slightly different than ours, life on a planet is significantly different. The planet Ebe, for example, had two suns. The surviving team members that returned died later on due to the radiation. So perhaps, it was 20 percent truth (story about 3 members, a story less "pretty), and 80 percent lies, the serpo story. One would be inclined to believe this, because of the tactic that is used to misguide people, along with the idea that it is indeed news that one change the world, forever. I would believe that a plan would be installed to correctly bring this news into the public. Imagine the scientific responses, the linguistic responses, cultural responses. Imagine how every would feel when they'd FINALLY realize that they're not the almighty human beings. Imagine a new kind of language being introduced. Imagine what it would to religions. Would it make or break religions? What would happen to all the believers and non-believers? Imagine the industries, suddenly circulating and creating a new market solely based on this fact. Gadgets, information, books, dvd's movies. Imagine a trade system being set-up? What would happen to the world's conflicts? I like to see the muslims (no offense) as the klingons on this planets, but would less honor. What would happen to their acts of terror? What would happen to the war in Iraq, the conflict between Israel and Palestina? Would we face a new kind of enlightenment?All these questions and many more intruige me to no end... Please share your thoughts, questions, opinions!

[richierich1m 0]

i dont know much of these things ,but yet i feel its plain fantasy and nothing real ,may be the guys who told you about the story see a lot of sci fi movies. i dont beleive in anything of this

[iGuest 3]

I always kinda thought there was something going on behind the scenes... I don't think it's at THAT level yet, but there are some things I find intruiging. For exaple, every morning, five days a week, eight or nine months a year for twelve years, everybody has to say the Pledge of Alligence. I stopped saying that way back in sixth grade, when I first realized they were brainwashing us. Well, maybe not BRAINWASHING, but I still think there's something fishy about it.I would warn a lot more people about my suspisions than the few I've told, but I figured we're minors anyway, so we can't LEGALLY pledge ourselves to anything.And despite what the haters say, I am NOT paranoid. *Annoyed*

[HiddenKenshin 0]

i dont know much of these things ,but yet i feel its plain fantasy and nothing real ,may be the guys who told you about the story see a lot of sci fi movies. i dont beleive in anything of this

No one told me anything, I always like to go straight for the source:

http://www.serpo.org/

That is the site that collects all given reports by the "insider".

Interesting fact is that if you jumble serpo around, you get "prose". You do the math, hehe.

I always kinda thought there was something going on behind the scenes... I don't think it's at THAT level yet, but there are some things I find intruiging. For exaple, every morning, five days a week, eight or nine months a year for twelve years, everybody has to say the Pledge of Alligence. I stopped saying that way back in sixth grade, when I first realized they were brainwashing us. Well, maybe not BRAINWASHING, but I still think there's something fishy about it.
I would warn a lot more people about my suspisions than the few I've told, but I figured we're minors anyway, so we can't LEGALLY pledge ourselves to anything.

And despite what the haters say, I am NOT paranoid. *Annoyed* dry.gif

My girlfriend stayed in Texas for about a year and had to do the whole pledge of allegiance thing. She took the liberty to do it as well, just out of respect. Not sure if she was obliged to, or not.
If there's a thing that I admire Americans for, is that they love their country. Just not how it's run, apparently.

Belgium has always had a kind of a strict catholic belief, and also, 'till I was about 12, we had to stand up, and say a prayer every morning, and before lunch. The words were given and mumbled, but none of us really understood the old-Dutch anyway. So it's comparable, perhaps.
What us Belgians LACK, however, is a little faith on our own damn country. We've had to go through so many opressions, from the damn romans, to the spanish, the french, the austrians, and the germans, TWICE, to get where we are now, and all I hear about my country, from my fellow belgians, is *****ing and moaning. Especially a generation under me, who seem to think they can express their thoughts on whatever, evne though they have no background knowledge, whatsoever, and gather in flocks, disrespecting everything that they should.
Maybe a pledge of allegiance, some cold hard facts or whatever should set some of their senses straight.

Ever since I started doing Kendo, I've really learned how it is, to have an open, free mind. It's an amazing experience. So don't feel as if you're being considered paranoid.

[Punkcat 0]

I always kinda thought there was something going on behind the scenes... I don't think it's at THAT level yet, but there are some things I find intruiging. For exaple, every morning, five days a week, eight or nine months a year for twelve years, everybody has to say the Pledge of Alligence. I stopped saying that way back in sixth grade, when I first realized they were brainwashing us. Well, maybe not BRAINWASHING, but I still think there's something fishy about it.
I would warn a lot more people about my suspisions than the few I've told, but I figured we're minors anyway, so we can't LEGALLY pledge ourselves to anything.

Let's say you're in power. Let's say you consider and truly believe in what is the best for your country, for your people. How would you go about letting them know that? How do you go about letting them know about love for the country, respect for the elders, passion in everything they do, be part of a community? Education. You educate your people - not brainwash them-. It's like raising a child (and I can tell you that from experience): they don't know anything, you still can't trust them and let them do whatever they want because they still can't tell one thing from another. If I let my child alone in the garden, she may take some pebbles into her mouth (what she has done), she might choke and die. Shouldn't I take it off her mouth, even if she cries, because it's something she wants? There is a time to learn, and there is a time to act upon what you've learnt. If in twenty years' time my daughter wants to go and swallow some pebbles, it will be up to her, she will know better, she will make that choice knowing the consequences, but not now.
Now it's the same if teenagers go around disrespecting everything, saying (ar acting as if) the country hystory is a piece of s**t, admiring foreign culture and not giving a d**m about their own. But they don't know anything about their own history, or their own culture. You can't love what you don't know. So education is for that. If later on, you think something different, then it's up to you, you know better, and you'll act on the knowledge. But you can't do that before knowing, you can't go around and say "I'm being brainwashed!" for what they teach at school.

[HiddenKenshin 0]

Let's say you're in power. Let's say you consider and truly believe in what is the best for your country, for your people. How would you go about letting them know that? How do you go about letting them know about love for the country, respect for the elders, passion in everything they do, be part of a community? Education. You educate your people - not brainwash them-. It's like raising a child (and I can tell you that from experience): they don't know anything, you still can't trust them and let them do whatever they want because they still can't tell one thing from another. If I let my child alone in the garden, she may take some pebbles into her mouth (what she has done), she might choke and die. Shouldn't I take it off her mouth, even if she cries, because it's something she wants? There is a time to learn, and there is a time to act upon what you've learnt. If in twenty years' time my daughter wants to go and swallow some pebbles, it will be up to her, she will know better, she will make that choice knowing the consequences, but not now.Now it's the same if teenagers go around disrespecting everything, saying (ar acting as if) the country hystory is a piece of s**t, admiring foreign culture and not giving a d**m about their own. But they don't know anything about their own history, or their own culture. You can't love what you don't know. So education is for that. If later on, you think something different, then it's up to you, you know better, and you'll act on the knowledge. But you can't do that before knowing, you can't go around and say "I'm being brainwashed!" for what they teach at school.

That's exactly what I was trying to say. Only you did it so much better, heh. What our forefathers did for us seems to be so easily forgotten and disregarded nowadays. Sometimes even spat upon. You are where you come from, that includes history. If no one took a stand for Europe at the times of WOII (clichĂŠ example), I would most certainly be talking German right now.
It's only when we can realize this, that we can start to admire an other culture, or disapprove anything from our own culture.

[SilverFox1405241541 0]

*sigh* I could write a book on the corruption and the fake government. Save it for later

[lonebyrd 0]

I always kinda thought there was something going on behind the scenes... I don't think it's at THAT level yet, but there are some things I find intruiging. For exaple, every morning, five days a week, eight or nine months a year for twelve years, everybody has to say the Pledge of Alligence. I stopped saying that way back in sixth grade, when I first realized they were brainwashing us. Well, maybe not BRAINWASHING, but I still think there's something fishy about it.

First of all, I am not a religious person by any means. As a kid, I hated hearing anything religious. But I did my dutiful thing and said the Pledge of Alligence. It was out of respect for my country. When I got into Jr. High, I just stood up, put my hand over my heart, as a sign of respect, but just didnt say the words, because I felt it had to do with religion and I didn't like it. Now, the government has totally taken it out of schools. Why? Everyone has the right to say it or not, whether it has the word G*d in it or not.
But back to the original topic. The whole alien, Area 51 thing has always been interesting to me. I have never read this serpo thing you spoke of, but i will look it up. Why is Area 51 so guarded? Why cant planes fly overhead? What are they hiding? I don't go for alot of conspricy theorys, but this one is a mystery to me? If nothing was there, then just let us see!

[Rid 0]

Well, this is my take on it right now, due to some information I've dug up, and some admissions from the US government itself through the Military channel.The biggest conspiracy theory when it comes to hidden governments is the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy", which is rather common among the wacky left. Two simply put statements discount the theory. The first is, "I know for a fact that there is no vast right wing conspiracy, because if there was one, I'd be a part of it." True in my case, I apologize to all the liberals on the forum. The second is, "Conservatives can't even agree on where to meet for coffee, how the heck can they agree on how to run a massive world wide conspiracy?"No matter how big or small, hidden governments have one perpetual problem, and that is human involvement. If it were computers running the show, who have no emotions that would get in the way, I'd say the conspiracy would work. But as is seen with current technology, it is unlikely this would happen.To move on to Area 51...One guy found the "legendary" Area 51 on google maps. He was looking around in the desert where it was rumoured to be, and found a military base, mostly blacked out. I can't remember the website, but I'm sure if you google it you'll find it.On the military channel, one show, can't remember which, did an episode on a secret military testing base, which has become known as Area 51 in common culture. They gave up the area, which confirmed what the guy had found on google maps. It has been relocated several times. All it has ever been used for is the testing of military prototype weaponry. Another show that I was not fortunate enough to see, but my girlfriend did, had a military scientist speak about things from when the base was once located near Roswell, New Mexico. The lights that people saw were tests for spacecraft, according to this scientist. They didn't go very well. It must also be noted that the man was given complete anonymity, so there is no way to confirm his story.As in the first post, it is true enough that it is easy to hide things in the current government. I have a friend who tells me he is ex-military, but when we touched on a certain subject of military training, he refused to continue the conversation. I sensed through his voice (quite difficult, I might add, as I have ADHD and Aspergers), that we should not continue the conversation and that is was very sensitive.There are such things as assassins. For example, when Iraq was building a nuclear reactor, Israel sent many assassins to take out top level scientists. One incident included the assassin being caught in the act by a prostitute. She was hit by an unmarked corvette just before giving a statement to police. Mossad did not give away this information to public access for many years.The point is, from anything I can tell through research, there is no government conspiracy behind the scenes. There is definately such a thing as covert operations, but that isn't truly a conspiracy.

[threesix 0]

yeah space aliens area 51 and all this stuff has obviously got something to do with the government we can't say it does'nt. but then again i live in canada and not so much of that crazy stuff happens here so its cool to watch all these american government things on tv.

[eminus 0]

one thing is for sure guys there really is a government called New World Order, cant you see that most of themovies are always saying about the new world where all people could live in harmony and peace. the thing thatthey will do is to unite all nations into a single government which would be controlled by one person and the worldwould be divided into 12 regions. I know this sounds crazy but its happening now. have you ever heard modchipswhich are now being used in animals to track them down. its a rice size chip that could store information which doesnot need any power because it relies on the heat of the host. try googling it search for modchip

[HiddenKenshin 0]

one thing is for sure guys there really is a government called New World Order, cant you see that most of the

movies are always saying about the new world where all people could live in harmony and peace. the thing that

they will do is to unite all nations into a single government which would be controlled by one person and the world

would be divided into 12 regions. I know this sounds crazy but its happening now. have you ever heard modchips

which are now being used in animals to track them down. its a rice size chip that could store information which does

not need any power because it relies on the heat of the host. try googling it search for modchip

Googling for modchip brings me to sites where I can order chips to play pirated games ona ps2 or ps3, actually. I don't udnerstand how it's connected to the "New World Order" theory you're talking about?

I assume you're talking about chips being implanted on all humans?

 

It sounds a lot like a New Age movement that believes that in december 2012, all humans will become aware of a higher plane of existence. A new kind of enlightenment will be established and an new kind of sphere will be covered around the planet... Humans will from there on out be able to be telepathic and such, and will no longer have a need for materialism and most negative energy on Earth will be diminished.

 

Some, on a drastic other side of this theory, believe that 2012 will bring the apocalypse.

(source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012

see last parts of the page)

[richierich1m 0]

hmm... it seems to be a deep thing,the biggest conspiracy theory when it comes to hidden governments is the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy", which is rather common among the wacky left. Two simply put statements discount the theory. The first is, "I know for a fact that there is no vast right wing conspiracy, because if there was one, I'd be a part of it." True in my case, I apologize to all the liberals on the forum. The second is, "Conservatives can't even agree on where to meet for coffee, how the heck can they agree on how to run a massive world wide conspiracy?"No matter how big or small, hidden governments have one perpetual problem, and that is human involvement. If it were computers running the show, who have no emotions that would get in the way, I'd say the conspiracy would work. But as is seen with current technology, it is unlikely this would happen.To move on to Area 51One guy found the "legendary" Area 51 on google maps. He was looking around in the desert where it was rumoured to be, and found a military base, mostly blacked out. I can't remember the website, but I'm sure if you google it you'll find it.On the military channel, one show, can't remember which, did an episode on a secret military testing base, which has become known as Area 51 in common culture. They gave up the area, which confirmed what the guy had found on google maps. It has been relocated several times. All it has ever been used for is the testing of military prototype weaponry. Another show that I was not fortunate enough to see, but my girlfriend did, had a military scientist speak about things from when the base was once located near Roswell, New Mexico. The lights that people saw were tests for spacecraft, according to this scientist. They didn't go very well. It must also be noted that the man was given complete anonymity, so there is no way to confirm his storyAs in the first post, it is true enough that it is easy to hide things in the current government. I have a friend who tells me he is ex-military, but when we touched on a certain subject of military training, he refused to continue the conversation. I sensed through his voice (quite difficult, I might add, as I have ADHD and Aspergers), that we should not continue the conversation and that is was very sensitive.there are such things as assassins. For example, when Iraq was building a nuclear reactor, Israel sent many assassins to take out top level scientists. One incident included the assassin being caught in the act by a prostitute. She was hit by an unmarked corvette just before giving a statement to police. Mossad did not give away this information to public access for many years. there are lot of same issues going around the world

[kgd2006 0]

Since we are on the subject of consipiracy I always felt that the goverment always has something more to something then what is the straight forward response and messages we get on our news television. For example, things such as the 911 event. I have seen a documentary about how that event was supposedly done by the goverment itself the planning of a terrorist bombing to get the people together as a nation. Maybe it may have happen where the goverment planned for funding foundations where they could fund what is now their war on iraq. Who knows, but a video of what I watched analyzing the events of 911 somehow talks about how it was too perfectly planned and handled. Things like a currupt goverment is always possible, and what we see in the movies as an interpertation of the goverment may not be as far fetched of an idea, it may be true.But on the cases of Area 51, I heard that technology being developed there is probably 10 years more advanced then what we have now. So basically what we have now is probably 10 years old in technology in the stuff that they have happening at Area 51. I mean it makes sense, the goverment would like to know how to control the technology in every way possible should someone that is vastly intelligent use it for wrong doings. There are just so many things that makes you think that can you even trust your goverment. But sometimes I believe that we should just live on with our lives and just discover what the goverment is all about as it is brought forward. They for one have had a couple slip ups recently in their so called CIA security checks, its hard to believe anything anymore but you will probably just grab what is good and continue living your life. Cause overwhelming your mind in curiosity for the truth will probably just drive you mad.

[Arbitrary 0]

My girlfriend stayed in Texas for about a year and had to do the whole pledge of allegiance thing. She took the liberty to do it as well, just out of respect. Not sure if she was obliged to, or not.

Well, at school, we are apparently required to do it. I believe a while ago there was a law in Colorado that made everyone say it unless they had a note from their parents saying that their religion didn't allow it. The problem here is that what if your parents' beliefs and your beliefs aren't the same? What if you didn't wish to say the Pledge of Allegiance while your parents wanted you to do so? Then it's not freedom of speech; it's your parents deciding what you should say.

 

The system is not totally fair, but then again, no system can be totally fair.

 

*

I always kinda thought there was something going on behind the scenes... I don't think it's at THAT level yet, but there are some things I find intruiging. For exaple, every morning, five days a week, eight or nine months a year for twelve years, everybody has to say the Pledge of Alligence. I stopped saying that way back in sixth grade, when I first realized they were brainwashing us. Well, maybe not BRAINWASHING, but I still think there's something fishy about it.

Well, I think it depends. As a little kid, I had just immigrated to the U.S. and so didn't really know English. So when I was first made to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, I just copied what everyone else did. But I couldn't have been brainwashed because I didn't have any idea what they were trying to make me say. By the time I actually understood what the words meant, I was older and ready to form opinions on my own. And even then, the Pledge of Allegiance was just a mindless repetitive trite to me--I didn't believe in god, but saying the pledge of allegiance for years on end didn't convince me to believe god either.

 

But you can't do that before knowing, you can't go around and say "I'm being brainwashed!" for what they teach at school.

Well, of course. But the problem is, without knowing, it's not very likely you'll ever saying stuff like "I'm being brainwashed." Without having any outside opinions on your education, you'll think that your education was perfectly fine. For instance, let's say there's a dictator who takes control of your country and tells everyone that freedom of speech undermines the power of each individual.

 

While you are stuck inside that education system, you'll believe every word that's being said. However, if you went around deciding that you were "being brainwashed" even before you were in the system, it's more likely you'll actually be suspicious about the system afterward. Even if it's an ignorant statement of "being brainwashed", I still feel that one ignorant statement is like a net--it catches your mistakes later.

 

No matter how big or small, hidden governments have one perpetual problem, and that is human involvement. If it were computers running the show, who have no emotions that would get in the way, I'd say the conspiracy would work. But as is seen with current technology, it is unlikely this would happen.

Well, I'd say it's still possible, even without computer involvement. Conspiracies are supposed to be hidden, hence the reason we don't know about them. By the time they're revealed, it's usually too late. For instance, that Enron conspiracy--it was hidden for quite a while. For a long time, the U.S. thought that Enron was a great company and was doing quite nicely. No one had any idea of the internal problems the company was facing--no one until it was too late. And sure, there was human involvement, but it still went on. It wasn't a total conspiracy like where everyone worked together immaculately, but the end results were still disastrous.

 

As in the first post, it is true enough that it is easy to hide things in the current government. I have a friend who tells me he is ex-military, but when we touched on a certain subject of military training, he refused to continue the conversation. I sensed through his voice (quite difficult, I might add, as I have ADHD and Aspergers), that we should not continue the conversation and that is was very sensitive.

Well, that's definitely true. I mean, the government explicitly makes the statement that certain information must be hidden. If you work for certain government posts, you aren't allowed to leave the country for a time period of several years until they believe that whatever knowledge you held while at the post is too old to be useful. All governments do this; it's for their own protection.