The Demise Of Knowledge Sutra what knowledge?

[anwiii 17]

i have been patient long enough with this forum. nothing has been done to improve this place for 8 months now. it seems buffalohelp just likes to keep his label as an admin even though he doesn't do *BLEEP* around here. opaque has ABANDONED this place because there are other pressing issues, nobody is posting, the chat room is empty, there is more activity in the status messages than any other place on this forum. this has turned in to a sad sad place. well, i for one am getting burnt out with all the waiting and patience to eventually turn this place around. when opaque ditched trap, we had a pr of 5 on this forum on the main page. even my profile was pr 2. what are they now? a big 0! this forum is a wast of everyones time if they are here to get or share knowledge. nobody is here to share any and nobody is here to read any.i just posted about how Xisto - Web Hosting sucks. now i have to say the same about Xisto. this place literally sucks eggs. i have tried to be supportive for so long....even if i had to get down and dirty to do it. but time is coming to an end for me here because this place really isn't worth my time anymore if even the admins ditched this place a long time ago. i see so much spam on this forum that doesn't get taken care of it's not even funny. even the mods are doing a crappy job. actually, 75% of them don't even log in anymore. the few that remain actually are the ones trying to clean things up. 2 mods log in regularly. THAT'S it! they can't even take care of all the same.as much as i loved this place and still do, after the new year, i am going to consider HIGHLY of ditching this place and moving ALL my accounts to host gator. why should i not when there doesn't seem like a light at the end of the tunnel. i told opaque that time was critical for change. this was over a year ago. we needed to stay with the times. there are a lot of changes that needed to be done to accompany a thriving forum.we lost so many good members because opaque and buffalohelp stopped caring about this place. a select few members have dedicated themselves in trying so hard to build a community here out of NOTHING. it's so discouraging when you can't even get the support of the owner or the dictator buffalohelp starts waving his ban wand to people who have helped this forum the most.in any case, i am outta here for good ater the new year if i don't see updates in what to expect from the forum. Xisto has lost many good members and i will just be another one to say goodbye soon. this is not a ploy to get people to come to attention. this is just me, saying that i had enough and will make my final decision after the new year.Xisto is dead! viva kama sutra!

[Mich 0]

Say anwiii, I tend to agree with you. One of the reasons I have not been very active is the lack of other's participation. I have been a member since January of 06. Trap was active all the time. Now when I log on I find that I am the only member signed in with all others on board "guests". This myCent thing is kind of a laugh. I can go to the Client Area, log in and add funds to my Account Credit Balance. When I have a credit balance, my invoices are automatically paid. I had to do it this year because I didn't have enough myCent to pay for my site. So, without participating very much on the forum, I can pay for my invoices with PayPal monies. Therefore I don't have much incentive to participate. I just hope the hosting doesn't colapse. My past host disappeared from the internet without warning and that was why I went looking and found Trap 17. Don't give up hope. Edited December 22, 2010 by Mich (see edit history)

[electriic ink 1]

I have to agree with you on this one and I'd like to add my own perspective on things.....It has been for some time. I used to moderate this forum (left ~2007 when I realised it was easier to install Apache/PHP on my own computer) and come back every few months just to see how everything's coming along. Each time I come back it always amazes me that I've not been demoted or PMed by someone asking about where I've been. Xisto used to be an amazing place until the admin started messing around with it (and, IMO at least, trying to turn it into Xisto), which was achieved in the following ways:* Enforcing a set of stricter rules; we were even encouraged to warn people (which could lead a rejection for a hosting request) for signing their names at the end of their posts.* Moving of the Army System to a separate site and eventually closing that down* Deleting the SPAM forum (IIRC it was no post count and a bit like /b/, except you couldn't post porn or insult other people)* Removing the Reputation system (something which is actually quite a good incentive to make quality posts).All these helped remove the FUN factor that previously attracted me to Xisto and this caused me to leave, along with many other members. It was not uncommon to see 200+ guests on the site with ~10 members online at any one time. Now I see there are just 70 guests and me. Since leaving I see a number of other poor decisions have been made:* A greater emphasis on the pre-moderation of topics (topics being made invisible until approved by a moderator), I can't think of any other forum which employs this so readily -- comments sections on websites do but not forums)* The total rebranding of the site (this ties in with what I was saying about the removal of the FUN factor -- KS sounds far less fun than Xisto, in fact Xisto used to be the name of an arcade)* General apathy when it comes to removing redundant forums. I think this is the first time I've visited that the old Army System forum has been properly archived.I don't quite know what's going through Opa's mind. I think KS is trying to be a haven for intelligent people to make useful how-to topics and tutorials and engage in insightful debates. Sounds like a great idea but this is the internet - and it's the feeling of community and enjoyment that will keep this site going.edit: The one thing I would like to add is that I haven't got a clue about KS's current financial situation so don't assume from my post that this site will close down as things have been going this way for years and the site's still up and running. All I'm saying is, the site's very different to how it used to be and this has caused a loss of some active members, who are yet to be replenished.

[Eza 5]

The topic starter manages to make me happy lots of times. And when the topic starter actually leaves that will make me happy again.On the other hand I have to admit that the topic starter is a source of wisdom and knowledge about the internet.And sometimes the topic starter turns out to be a great help to some other members of the forum.The ongoing questons of the topic starter annoy and help at the same time to make things clear.And the topic starter is a huge well of inspiration for lots of activities related to the internet and websites.So for these reasons it is almost seen as like necessary for the sake of staying inspired and against all obvious thoughts to request the topic starter to stay active on this forum.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Eza (see edit history)

[anwiii 17]

i beg your pardon? i didn't write what i did to be asked to stay. anyone who does so disrespects the meaning of what i said. it's not up to the words of others or how valuable i am here. it's up to opaque and buffalohelp "the deadbeat admin" to do their jobs and initiate change around here. i have no problem crawling through the mud to help revive this place, but i'm not going to wait forever for opaque to show an interest here again either. like i said. i give it a month. if it shows no signs of improvment or a plan of action for change, i am out. i am not going to waste my time posting nor will i care at all what happens here. i may show up from time to time to write a status message or something but that's about it. my time is better spent elsewhere. i wasn't even here for the mycents but i will be sure to use up what i've earned before i go and transfer my hosting eventually. did i mention Xisto - Web Hosting sucks too? their customer service isn't even customer service. if someone finds out WHAT it is, please let me know because it sure as heck isn't an entity to help their customers.plus, i don't share a lot of my knowledge here. what i have normally shared here is my opinions or played devils advocate just to strike up some conversation. but i have from time to time. just like my current thread "how to seo". but that is still little stuff compared to the big picture. people will come here to get knowledge, YES.....if there is knowledge to be shared. there isn't. this place is dead. so right now, you are getting a lot of spammers and dupe accounts(whos accounts were originally suspended) to post spam for mycents. take one of your recent posts for instance with two crappy voting polls. you stated prices in one paragraph and then proceded to repeat what you said in bullet form. if that isn't spam to collect more mycents, i don't know what is. it's getting worse here. not better. i can only name about 5 people on this forum that actually still contribute something worthwile aside from a couple mods that don't post but are still trying to moderate in the background. aside from that, this forum is DEAD. and with all the recent amount of spam for mycents going on, this forum "Xisto" is going to gain a bad reputation. it just went through a brand new name change and opaque abandoned it! that was the dumbest move EVER in the history of this forum. if we were going to go through a name change, we had to work much harder to improve the reputation and credibility of the forum and advertise it to get back our pr and backlinks and search engine positions for all our threads old and new. what happened instead DISGUSTS me. i used to care a lot about this place and tried to do my job as a member even if it was to push opaque to a mental hospital or disrespect buffalohelp because....well...he doesn't deserve any respect. he is co captain of Xisto. where is he? NOWHERE. it should be that if opaque is busy, buff has his back. he DOESN'T. or if buff is busy, opaque should have his back. he DOESN'T. there is no working together. there is no teamwork. there is no dedication to this place anymore like there was when trap was born. there is no friendships, community or sense of loyalty anymore. thus the title "the demise of Xisto". i saw it going downhill 2 year ago when it was still trap but i didn't want to believe it would ever come to this. i tried to warn the admins. i tried to give suggestions, i took on a mod role with full responsibility to do a job well until buffalohelp had to open is prejudice mouth who has done absolutely NOTHING to help this place recently. so i stepped down to see how he'll manage without me and even the other mods who are slowly disapearing like JHASLIP who in my opinion was absolutely the best mod hands down EVER except for the last couple years. now that position goes to truefusion....and even galaxcd for a different reason. they are two different types of mods.but this is what made this forum great. we had a diversity of mods and a diversity of members, a dictatorship led by buffalohelp and opaque who started it all. now what do we have? well....it's nothing to brag about so i will end my post here....

[Harlot 2]

I quit this place like two months ago - at least in regards to posting quality content. When I first joined, I had every intention on being a member of this community and contributing serious, and well throughout discussion. It was actually enjoyable for a minute, and I must say that I posted more and I posted easier when I was actually posting for conversation rather than MyCentos. I would join a discussion and before I know it, I would have six or seven long paragraphs. I think it was become I joined with high expectations, because I remember the old Xisto days. I was not an active member of Xisto for very long, but it appears more organized and exciting - I remember the Army System too, and that was a fantastic incentive. Nevertheless, after a month at Xisto, I noticed that the standards are no more, and the place die a little more every day. The first month, I couldn't wait to log onto Xisto, and not I just cram post at the end of every month and stretch every post as far as it will take me. I wouldn't call it spam, but I sure as hell wouldn't call it quality either. I would probably call it speed posting; the act of posting off the top of ones head, and continuously extending the post with new ideas as they come. In other words, there is no structure, effort, and cohesiveness. In my opinion, if the place is to turn around, I would absolutely have to start with the admin. The first step would be demoting 75% of the moderators, and recruiting new ones if necessary.The second step would be setting up a clear set of rules that are lenient, but adequate in order to be manage the forum, and especially spam (where it exist). I don't wanna bash the admin or moderators, because I don't know what is going on in their lives or what the circumstances are, but I must say that they have all but abandoned the place. It reminds me of how I abandoned my forum, but the only difference is that I had zero active members. Anyway, it would also be a good idea for the admin to add new features, and I would love for the Army System and Rep System to come back.As for Xisto - Web Hosting or Xisto hosting, I would have to disagree. I think that they do the best that they can with the limited resources that they have. They have always answered my support tickets and have done all that they could in order to provide me with the hosting support that I need. They are slow sometimes, but they are no slower than the other host that are around their size. I don't expect them to have support that equals that of GoDaddy or HostGator, they are not as big and they sure are not making as much money...if any at all.

[sonesay 7]

I cant say I agree with everything that's been said here. I guess from my own point of view the owners can do what they like. Ever hear of the saying don't expect anything from anyone and you wont get disappointed? The forums still work, sure there is spam but there is always going to be span its the internet. Just because the moderates don't remove it intimidate you will not die. I'm not sure how this would affect its search rankings but I'm pretty sure it would have little or no effect. I have searched up topics in the past on Google and it points me here so there are some good posts. I don't think you should be blaming the admins for the types of members we have who don't post good topics. The admins have no control over what you post so doesn't that seem unreasonable to you? I do not know fully what has become of this place over the last year but I can still post and reply to topics and still earn mycents. That is enough for me and I don't really expect anymore. I am how ever disappointed on the number of topics relating to the areas I'm interested in but then I remember this place is a forum for all topics to be discussed. I don't expect much to happen from the admins as I don't think its really their job to control what users post here and the quality. Its out of their hands. We can only hope more quality topics are started and continued by its members. Not everyone has the time to come here and post a really good topic. I'm seen half *bottom* tutorials and think to my self man these guys are lame but have a I posted anything good no.. I want to post a tutorial on an image gallery I made up which is unique but I have not had the time. Plus I am only half way through building it myself so when I do get time I will since I've not seen anything out there that's similar on the web. You have to remember not everyone out there is an expert in their field so you cant expect everyone to be posting high quality content all the time.

Edited December 27, 2010 by sonesay (see edit history)

[web_designer 7]

i just read this thread, and it is really hurt to read all that . i joined this place about a year ago, and i got a lot from here, i got friends, knowledge, help whenever i need and both my sites are built after i joined here. this place means a lot to me, the members and people around too. and it is really sad to read all that even when i know that every word is true. for me i will still come and go, to post and do my best to participate, but unfortunately the last two months i was not active as usual, because i have a new life to build now, and a lot to be done. i hope i can do more and be active more, but sorry to say i can't. i will hope things will be change for the best for this new year from all my heart.

[sheepdog 10]

i didn't write what i did to be asked to stay. anyone who does so disrespects the meaning of what i said

Ok, now bulloney. I don't want to be disrespectful, and while I understand what you mean, I do not want you to leave. You are one of my favorite people to argue with.

I do agree, this forum is going down hill. I can skip an entire week or more now and not find enough new posts to reply to keep up my hosting credits. But it will just get even harder if you leave.

So, what can be done about it? I have seen some very positive comments and some ideas from the members. Surely with all the die hards here we can come up with something positive and helpful.

Just one question. Do I not understand the meaning of spam? I consider it those stupid emails you get wanting to buy a puppy and mailing you a check for over the purchase price and having you Western Union the balance back to them. Or the one about how somebody needs help getting their 7 million dollar inheartance, or whatever. I really don't see very much of that. Maybe some really dumb posts occasionally, but I atribute that to the age of members here, the huge cultural variety we have from all parts of the globe that may not have the educational background as we do.

[web_designer 7]

Ok, now bulloney. I don't want to be disrespectful, and while I understand what you mean, I do not want you to leave. You are one of my favorite people to argue with.

great words from a great person you just said what i am eager so hard to say since i read this thread, but i must say that i am chicken out and was afraid to blow up the fire mood of anwiii since i know that he is in a bad mood these days. and between i was tending to write the same after a couple of days or about when i know that he is in a good news to argue with .

but when i read your words sheepdog, i couldn't stop myself from saying i agree with you TOTALLY.
the first one i noticed here, and who was replying to my threads was anwiii.
the first one who pissed my off here in this forums, was anwiii.
the first one who i was afraid from his replies and his criticism even he was not a mod or admin was anwiii.
the first one who became my friend was him.
and coming here to Xisto and don't see him ???!!! oh god this is so unacceptable for me. AT all

and i really hope he will change his mind or at least enter the forums once in a while. not leave the forum for good

but if you decided to do so then i really respect your wish, even if i didn't like it. after all i know that everyone has his own limits. and i remember too he told me once that "he will still coming to this forums till it closed" but if he decided to leave it then that means he reaches his limits and we must understand and respect his wish. but i can't say that i can accept that right now, and i will still hoping he will think again about it and change his mind.

and if he didn't, me and sheepdog can use or "evil side" (from the point of view of anwiii,each woman has an evil side) so we can use it and drag him back again and i assure you that i will have some women backups to represent the TRUE EVIL OF WOMEN .

[AzureMusique 0]

I am just seriously too shocked to say how I liked the way you've been supportive of me when I started out two-three months ago. I had every intention of posting as much as I can, on top of school and all. But because there aren't as much topics as I wanted to post from, so it just makes it difficult for me even post a lot more without spamming. So therefore, I intermittently appear every now and then. Erza, who signed up about the same time as I did, did a very good job in posting, much better than I did. Like you, Anwii, I'm someone who mainly reply to already-started topics. Unique to myself and probably a few others, I will read topics that catch my eye. I won't normally post unless I have something to say. I won't normally start topics unless I have something I really wanted to post. When I do, however, it's just very difficult to rouse interest on something not related to asking for help and other technical questions.However, I must say that my days on the forums aren't what it used to be. It could be very difficult for me start posting stuff like crazy. Like others, I would very much like you to stay, but because you're your own person, we can plead all we want but we can't force you to stay.I too, wish for the revival of Trap 17/KS. What on earth happened to Opaque? I'd very much like to meet him one day. On the forums, that is.Who knows, maybe someone will come by and help us truly revive KS and make it like what it used to be.

[Mich 0]

and if he didn't, me and sheepdog can use or "evil side" (from the point of view of anwiii,each woman has an evil side) so we can use it and drag him back again and i assure you that i will have some women backups to represent the TRUE EVIL OF WOMEN .

Ahem (cough), don't forget me. I am woman hear me roar! AKA Evil Maverick, I will join you and sheepdog whenever I can, but I do travel a lot so cannot contribute as often as I like.

[mrdee 1]

Well, I must admit (without trying to be derogatory to anyone) that there have been lots of changes here since the Trap 17 time, and not always for the better.I do remember, quite some time ago, that they apparently had changed the whole MyCents system, but the thing was, it wasn't updating anymore, your credit remained as it was, while they kept saying they were working on it, but the change never seemed to happen.It even happened that I emailed Xisto - Support, and they just added credit to my MyCents system as a gesture of goddwill, as I had told them I had made a number of posts, but thus far never received any credit for them.Now, the MyCents system is up and running again, but it does take somewhat longer than it used to before your credit is updated.Howvever, the main thing I have noticed is: (I don't know whether it is a lot of people have turned their back on the forums or what), whenever you used to post on these forums, it never took long to get a reply, and you used to get quite a few, not only from ordinary members, but also from people like a jlhaslip, SaintMichael, Opaque, BufalloHelp, just to name a few.Now, it has happened that I posted questions here, which just remained unanswered, something which would NEVER have happened in the past.Also, since they encourage you to post as much as you can in order to get your MyCents credits, why do they try to restrict your posting on the other hand?It is not the first time I have seen "You can make 50 more posts here", and don't tell me that is a measure to try and reduce spam.Further, we all make mistakes, and we all forget something from time to time, so, why can't you edit your posts anymore after a certain time?Sometimes something important you forgot to put in your post springs to mind, or you notice a mistake which might have an impact on the context of your posting, but, after a while, there is no more possibility to edit your post.So there clearly has been some change here, and something is obviously not going the way things used to go.Another thing: where is the cosy shoutbox gone, which we used to have at the top of the forum?Don't get me wrong, when I have certain problems I need help with, I will still post them here, also partly because I am in need of my MyCents credits, if only because I am happy with the hosting Xisto provides, and there might be some nostalgia, because of the way things used to go on the good old Trap 17 forums.However, I want to appeal to everyone, can't we all do an effort to try and raise the standards again, and to make Xisto to the same level of fun, friendship and knowledge we used to find on the Trap 17 community?Let us not forget, the hosting Xisto provides is good, and don't say otherwise, their support might be slow, but they do help to solve your problems, and besides, I have rarely needed their help.And then the main point: the price for their hosting is right, where else will you find such generous hosting, no ads, fully working MySQL databases without any restrictions, uploads not restricted, and all paid for by just posting in the forums often enough?Would you people really like to go with other hosting companies, where either, you pay an arm and a leg for hosting not much better that Xisto's, or even free, but where half of the stuff you put in your MySQL databases is not working, or where you are not allowed to put certain file types on your website (eg. no more video clips or songs on the site, even if they are completely your own)?No, I would like to resolve it differently, instead of leaving, why don't we all stick together and try to make Xisto the place Trap 17 once was.I, for one, am always willing to help.

Edited January 16, 2011 by mrdee (see edit history)

[k_nitin_r 8]

@mrdeeHi!First of all, yes, responses do take longer than they used to - you've posted to the thread on the 16th of January 2011, and here I am responding to it on the 25th of January 2011.I would imagine that the change comes from a lot of things apart from the forums themselves. I'm not saying that the forums have not changed, but the people have too. The old posters probably got out of high school and are in the research laboratories or have to wake up in the middle of the night for a diaper change. Stuff happens, people get more responsibilities. I have an on-and-off relationship with Xisto right now because of all the things that I have happening in my life, for a day job that helps pay the Internet and phone bills to writing papers to hand in to class while burning the midnight oil.The shoutbox was ditched in favor of the chat and we also have an IRC channel.I totally agree with you on the Xisto Hosting bit. I have only had to use the support once and it was pretty quick - I posted a support ticket before I had to get away from my desk and when I next checked my email, there was the reply! The Xisto Hosting provides complete access to all of the functionality that PHP provides you with and even the mail() function works.Mr.Dee, whatever you are suggesting for turning Xisto around, count me in!

[web_designer 7]

@michno i won't thank you dear for your backup and support, i am really appreciated. even my words here look funny but if anyone looks deep, they are not. i really hope that i can do something to return this place as active as before, and find a way to avoid loosing good and loyal members. it is after all the whole idea of social forums, right??and i know we do have a great and talent members here, for some reason, this forum attracts talented members who can give and share a lot. so loosing them is really a big lost. and from that point, i want to thank you mich to be able to come in here even when you are busy. and thank anyone who do the same, like anwiii, deadmad, bani, hurt4love, k_nithin_r, nnnooooo, ash_bash, chini13....and anyone else who keeps come around. and that reminds me to be more active i know i should be and i will.