Rich People Won?t Go To The Heaven Discuss this

[fermin25 3]

Since five years ago I understood that the poor people don´t mind if they are leaders or not don´t have any power in the social machine. The succes is measured in how much a person have made in the entire life. And some famous people like the singers aren´t measured by the beauty of their songs but by the millions that they have made in their careers. Thinking on this I conclude the same conclusion that 50 Cent has "Get rich or die trying". But when I exposed this ideas to my family they reacted in a strange way. They said me that I am not a devil´s son to think only in the money and material world because I am christian. But I said them that be rich in a honest way don´t have anything wrong. And instantly my grandma opened her bible and look for the part who says:

It is easier for a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man in the kingdom of heaven.

Then I start this idea and the following research and I want your opinion about this. If this is truth then is impossible that people like Bill Gates, Donald Trump and the same Pope(who control a millionare account) enter in the kingdom heaven. Thinking like this is impossible that you work like you want because if you start a company only to generate the necessary amount of money to support your family and suddenly the company starts to grow, you will have to sell it because you are in the way to be rich and if you are a man of God, you can be rich.

I think that this religious teorie is complicated and maybe all of us have someday or some ocassion hear this. I have listen to some tapes of motivation for people who wants to be a self-development and all they conclude that "the rich if they go to heaven, but in first class" but I think that this type of phrases are not answering my question.

I want to be rich, because almost only the rich people can make the great changes in the world. And all the people who actually are no rich and make great changes in the world end up being rich. So this phrase exposed by Jesus said that is a sin work a lot in something because for example, if you work a lot seeking the cure for the AIDS and you discover it, you will not be poor never, because the world will be in doubt with you and you will be rich.

So what do you think the rich people can go to the heaven or not???

[rpgsearcherz 5]

I think you're taking it out of context. Keep in mind that in biblical days there was no "money." Riches were made by enslaving others and forcing them to do your work for you, or by killing others and taking everything they have.Being rich in todays' times is nothing like that. Now you can be rich from thousands of different jobs. You can even become a multi-millionaire if you have a $45k a year job (such as a police officer). So claiming people who are rich won't make it into Heaven doesn't really make sense.Now in the terms of those days, I completely understand where it's coming from. It would be comparable to drug dealers today. Stealing from others and killing others to take all of their stuff is definitely not condoned by the Lord.

[truefusion 3]

So what do you think the rich people can go to the heaven or not???

Let's look at the verse you quote and take into account what it says. Look at the beginning, what does it say? It is easier... What does that mean? That rich people cannot enter heaven? Or that it will be very difficult for a rich person to enter heaven? I believe it is obvious that it means that it is just extremely difficult for a rich person to enter heaven, not that it is impossible.

 

I want to be rich, because almost only the rich people can make the great changes in the world. And all the people who actually are no rich and make great changes in the world end up being rich. So this phrase exposed by Jesus said that is a sin work a lot in something because for example, if you work a lot seeking the cure for the AIDS and you discover it, you will not be poor never, because the world will be in doubt with you and you will be rich.

 

Was Jesus rich? Was Mahatma Gandhi? You don't have to be rich to make great changes to the world. Seeking after money isn't necessarily a sin, but the Bible says that the love for money is the root of all evil, that those who seek after it never have enough, and that you can only serve one master.

 

I think you're taking it out of context. Keep in mind that in biblical days there was no "money." Riches were made by enslaving others and forcing them to do your work for you, or by killing others and taking everything they have.

 

I'm not entirely sure about the Old Testament times, but during the New Testament times, there was indeed a monetary system. It was what the Romans were using at the time which the Jews implemented while under the Romans' rule or observation. Have you read about the part where Jesus was given a coin with Caesar's face on it and how Jesus responded to it? Having a bondservant did not necessarily imply that you were rich. Having a lot of bondservants, maybe; but the law allowed people to become bondservants for the sake of paying back a debt they owed.

[rpgsearcherz 5]

Let's look at the verse you quote and take into account what it says. Look at the beginning, what does it say? It is easier... What does that mean? That rich people cannot enter heaven? Or that it will be very difficult for a rich person to enter heaven? I believe it is obvious that it means that it is just extremely difficult for a rich person to enter heaven, not that it is impossible.

 

 

Was Jesus rich? Was Mahatma Gandhi? You don't have to be rich to make great changes to the world. Seeking after money isn't necessarily a sin, but the Bible says that the love for money is the root of all evil, that those who seek after it never have enough, and that you can only serve one master.

 

 

I'm not entirely sure about the Old Testament times, but during the New Testament times, there was indeed a monetary system. It was what the Romans were using at the time which the Jews implemented while under the Romans' rule or observation. Have you read about the part where Jesus was given a coin with Caesar's face on it and how Jesus responded to it? Having a bondservant did not necessarily imply that you were rich. Having a lot of bondservants, maybe; but the law allowed people to become bondservants for the sake of paying back a debt they owed.

 

I just find it a little ridiculous that rich people would have harder times. *anyone* can become rich by not wasting money. So the religious meaning behind the scripture quoted before means "if you don't spend all of your money you'll have a harder time getting into Heaven than someone who saves up for things they want instead of wasting it?"

 

It just doesn't make sense.

 

Not to mention look at the leader of any major church. They are *all* rich, with mansions and nice cars. Yet they do nothing but preach about Jesus/God all day, everyday. Again, I find it hard to believe that they are punished for their money.

 

I guess I'm clearly missing something here. I feel if a job offers you $1 million a year to work for them you shouldn't be punished for accepting it. If you spend the time and effort learning the trade (think about those who go to school 16 years for their profession) it shows they are outgoing and persistent. I highly doubt God sees that as negative.

 

 

At the end of the day only one person knows. I just think you guys are misinterpreting it.

[chini13 11]

Richness in your acts is important to come close to heaven or God.Every religion tries to improve the human activities and focuses on to give to the world and help the needy.Any religion won't differentiate on the basis of money as it is materialistic.No religion finds the material important but the way a human deals with other human.The righteous activities,the love for humanity and moral values are most important. Spirituality is being close to God and it also says that we should focus on being a better human and to willfully do good to the society with whatever we have.

[Harlot 2]

I want to be rich, because almost only the rich people can make the great changes in the world. And all the people who actually are no rich and make great changes in the world end up being rich. So this phrase exposed by Jesus said that is a sin work a lot in something because for example, if you work a lot seeking the cure for the AIDS and you discover it, you will not be poor never, because the world will be in doubt with you and you will be rich.
So what do you think the rich people can go to the heaven or not???

You don't have to be rich to do great things. I will have to disagree with that. In fact, I believe that being rich works toward preventing you from doing great things. People are rich because the poor, especially those within third world countries, are exploited and denied of their livelihood in order for someone living thousands of miles away can drive a nice car and live in a house bigger than they need. So what happens is that the rich create a false image of greatness, such as singers, celebrities, rich politicians, and etc, who in actuality did little or nothing for the good of mankind. On the other hand, those who really stand up for justice, and for equality are shot down in the streets or thrown into a shabby prison cell. Greatness if being willing to give up your life for a cause, not exploiting the poor and then contributing a small percentage back in order to make yourself look like a humanitarian. If you take my cake from me, and then leave me a few crumbs, I am not suppose to be happy or grateful because the whole cake was suppose to be mine. That is pretty much why you see children in third world countries on your television digging through trash. It is because 1% of the population has hoarded 90% of the wealth. This means that everyone could have a middle class life if it wasn't for the billionaires, both public and private (known and unknown), who have in their possession more money then they can spend in a lifetime.

I think you're taking it out of context. Keep in mind that in biblical days there was no "money." Riches were made by enslaving others and forcing them to do your work for you, or by killing others and taking everything they have.
Being rich in todays' times is nothing like that. Now you can be rich from thousands of different jobs. You can even become a multi-millionaire if you have a $45k a year job (such as a police officer). So claiming people who are rich won't make it into Heaven doesn't really make sense.

Now in the terms of those days, I completely understand where it's coming from. It would be comparable to drug dealers today. Stealing from others and killing others to take all of their stuff is definitely not condoned by the Lord.

I don't know if it is taken out of context of not, however, people have a history of removing or putting forth their own interpretation of parts of the bible that threatens their lifestyle or the way of their society. If this one verse applies only to the 500AD, then what other parts of the bible does not apply to us today? Could this mean that the entire Bible could in fact not apply to modern day society? I simply don't believe in having it both ways. You either believe in the Bible and its entirety of you don't. If I believe that a section of a book is inaccurate, then I tend to question the credibility of other parts of that book. However, it seems that it has been made alright to ignore one part of the Bible and then condemn sinners for violating another part. If you are rich and the Bible says that you are going to have a hard time going to heaven, well now you know how homosexuals feel, as you are on the same boat now...plain and simple.

As for being rich honesty, it is not about how to get it, its about why and how you have the opportunity to get it. How does it effect the lives of others that you have a disproportionate amount of wealth? Lets image that this forum was a real community, meaning in real life. We are the only people in existence. There are 20 of us. In total, there is $20,000 worth of wealth (meaning goods, resources, etc). If 2 people have $19,000 out of the $20,000...the other 18 are going to have a hard time eating. In fact, eventually, the bottom 18 are going to be working as cheap laborers for the top 2 and therefore making them richer and themselves poorer. If you apply that ideology to billions of people who live on earth, you can see clearly why children are digging through trash over in Africa, South American, and Asia. You will also see why Communist countries rose and the working class revolted against the top 1%, taking their wealth away and putting it into the hands of the people.

I just find it a little ridiculous that rich people would have harder times. *anyone* can become rich by not wasting money. So the religious meaning behind the scripture quoted before means "if you don't spend all of your money you'll have a harder time getting into Heaven than someone who saves up for things they want instead of wasting it?"
It just doesn't make sense.

Not to mention look at the leader of any major church. They are *all* rich, with mansions and nice cars. Yet they do nothing but preach about Jesus/God all day, everyday. Again, I find it hard to believe that they are punished for their money.

I guess I'm clearly missing something here. I feel if a job offers you $1 million a year to work for them you shouldn't be punished for accepting it. If you spend the time and effort learning the trade (think about those who go to school 16 years for their profession) it shows they are outgoing and persistent. I highly doubt God sees that as negative.

My first comment will be that a lot of religious beliefs don't fully make sense, however, it is insincere to accept part of it as true, and then discard what goes against your lifestyle. People tend to do that these days. They ignore parts of the Bible that are depressing and they dismiss it as a mistake, misinterpretation, or a deeper message that can't be understood. Secondly, "anyone" can not become rich, that clearly displays a lack of understanding for the lower class of society and the people that the Bible claimed that Jesus represented (the poor, oppressed, and lowly). There are people who work their entire life, save every dime that they can spare, and are still poor at death. This especially applies to those living outside of Western countries. However, it also applies to the poor within Western countries who are technically poor by birth. And despite popular belief, the majority of people on earth die in the same social class that they were born. The majority who are born poor, die poor. The majority who are born rich, die rich. The majority who are born middle class, die middle class. There are exceptions, but the exceptions are irrelevant.

Also, I believe that you have a very narrow view of the historical causes of poverty. In fact, I actually know that you do based on your comments here. If you get a job offer for $1 million dollars, you are not the average poor individual who finished college. In fact, it is almost certain that you have a rich family who were able to send you to the best schools and give you the best education from birth. The million dollar offers are given to Harvard and Yale grads, not affordable universities. And although rich children have an educational advantage, they don't typically go to these wonderfully expensive schools because they are smarter, but because of their wealth. Many have bribed their way to a 4.0, believe it or not. Then they bribe their way through admissions if necessary. As for the hard working 16 year old, what makes him any more hard working than a janitor who has worked sun up to sun down for forty years? How is that 16 year old contributing anything more to society? Why does he deserve a better life than the hard working janitor? Simple because he has been trained in a skilled profession he should make more in 1 year than a janitor makes in his entire lifetime? Seriously, who really worked the hardest here? Did Warren Buffet or the Walmart Family work harder than the single parent mother who has to hold down two jobs simply to make ends meet, and has been doing so for 7 days a week for the last 20 years? Serious, people put brain power too far above hard work, and that is a bad bill of goods. The working class, which is the majority, contributes more to society than the rich who claim that they deserve so much. It is the labor of the working class that creates wealth. We can send all of the rich people of the world to Mars and society would go on. Try to send every working class citizen to Mars, the economy would collapse and the rich would have to get off their butts and do real work.

As for the religious leaders, they are exploiters. I have nothing against religion, but in many cases it is used to exploit the poor. I've heard pastors tell the congregation, consisting of very poor people, to give to God (the church) even if it means not paying their bills and God will make a way for them to pay their bills. The pastor stuffs his pocket with money and continue to praise God at the alter. People don't think the same, we have to understand that. Some people wouldn't dare insincerely praise God and use it as a way to scam people, while others, many who don't even truly believe in God, can't find any other profession so they become a pastor. And anyone can become a pastor, really. I have seen prisoners become pastors and then use their life story as a way to show God's power (God turned my around blah blah), and then stuff their pockets with money on the way out of the church.

Thin about it. If you go to New York, you will see churches with ceiling trimmed in gold while outside of the church there is nothing more than poverty and slum. Why is that church spending money on gold ceiling when they could be feeding and clothing the poor? Why do they need to build a church that takes up the whole block when people are nearly starving? The culture of corruption. That is your answer. Even the pope, why does he have all this luxury when people in Africa, Asia, and South America are digging through trash? Why does he need all that if he is a man of God and is here on earth to do the work of God? I have no problem with religion, but it should do what it promise to do. I am very much in touch and support the teachings of Christ even if I differ on certain fundamental beliefs, however, if you say that you are doing the work of Christ than you should do it.

[rpgsearcherz 5]

This may be very insensitive but I feel 99.9% of the poor are there because they don't want to do what's required to rise above it.I know WAY too many people who went from having so little that they were BELOW the poor class, where they had to work 3 full-time jobs just to even live in a house with no electricity or water. Yet all of them ended up rising above it due to WANTING to and almost all of them at the peaks in their careers were making over $100k a year on their own (not including spousal income).I've yet to see anyone who wanted to succeed that didn't. The problem is people are too happy living their lives without change.You can dispute the above all you want. I've seen it true in every single case so far so I'm not looking for reinforcement or acceptance of the fact.I did say 99.9% because there are a few, very few, who are unable to care for themselves. Those people I agree we should help.As for other countries having less than the U.S. I have no idea how that's possible. Most countries have been here longer than us (not even 250 years) and yet we've surpassed almost all of them and become a world leader. There is nothing that was keeping any other country from doing the same. So again, we should not be dragged down because *we* wanted to succeed and they didn't. Everyone makes their own choices; being lazy should not be rewarded.

[Harlot 2]

This may be very insensitive but I feel 99.9% of the poor are there because they don't want to do what's required to rise above it.
I know WAY too many people who went from having so little that they were BELOW the poor class, where they had to work 3 full-time jobs just to even live in a house with no electricity or water. Yet all of them ended up rising above it due to WANTING to and almost all of them at the peaks in their careers were making over $100k a year on their own (not including spousal income).

I've yet to see anyone who wanted to succeed that didn't. The problem is people are too happy living their lives without change.

You can dispute the above all you want. I've seen it true in every single case so far so I'm not looking for reinforcement or acceptance of the fact.

I hope someday you'll stop believing such a outright and blunt lie. It is indeed a lie and it is a lie that has been pushed forth for quite a while. People are not poor because they want to be poor, or because they are too lazy to work hard enough. Who do you think are the hardest workers in any country? It is poor people. Poor people are the ones who have the jobs that are the most physically hard and stressful. The poor work the longest hardest, but the least pay. Who wants to work harder to less pay? To say that poor people want to be poor is an insult, as I live in the inner city and I see people working hard every day trying to make ends meet and yet they are financially at a stand still. To say that these people want to be poor, or are not working hard enough to uplift themselves is a delusional lie that is pushed forth by those who have no understanding of poverty and have never lived in poverty a day in their life. For every person you know who went from poor to making $100,000 a year, I know 20,000 that didn't and it was not based on them being happy with their status. No one is happy being poor, that is the same lie that slave owners push forth. That slaves were happy being slaves. The same lies with different names.

If you have never seen anyone who wanted to succeed and didn't, I wanna know what world you live in. Earth is not the place where everyone who wants to succeed accomplish that goal. Certain people are born with social disadvantage that prevents them from succeeding. It is easy to see why someone would think the way you do, as our educational system is modeled to push forth the "American Dream" lie. After 12 years of being instilled with that lie, its depressing to find out that the American Dream is nothing more than an American Nightmare for most.

Then we have to look outside of America, which is even worst. Do you believe those kids on TV digging through trash want to be poor? That they can't rise above poverty because they are not willing to do what it takes? They are poor because of corporate colonization and the exploitation of their natural resources by countries such as the United States and Britain. Therefore instead of their natural resources being used to generate wealth in their country, it generates wealth for Americans and the British. When an American or British corporation own all the oil fields and gold mines in a third world country, who do you think will be rich and who do you think will be poor? Why do you think America was so much against Communism? It was because Communism means that American companies would lose control of the massive resources in third world countries, as those resources would be naturalized by that country's government and used to feed the people within those nations.

I did say 99.9% because there are a few, very few, who are unable to care for themselves. Those people I agree we should help.
As for other countries having less than the U.S. I have no idea how that's possible. Most countries have been here longer than us (not even 250 years) and yet we've surpassed almost all of them and become a world leader. There is nothing that was keeping any other country from doing the same. So again, we should not be dragged down because *we* wanted to succeed and they didn't. Everyone makes their own choices; being lazy should not be rewarded.

You have to ask yourself why the United States has surpassed those nations in 250 years. It sure isn't because we are better, smarter, or superior. However, of course this is what the propaganda placed in the average history book tell you. The truth is that it is possible because we are willing to use military force in order to advance our economic welfare. Well not even "our" economic welfare, but rather the economic welfare of rich capitalistic. The same capitalistic who run sweatshops in Thailand.

You have to understand the country that you live in and not be blinded by lies. The United State and European countries have a long history of oppressing other nations by taking over the nation through military force, place all the resources in the hand of Western companies, and then withdrawing the military force and keeping those resources in the hands of U.S. and European companies by threat of force. Even after the colonization of African and South American ended, U.S. and European companies maintained control over the resources of those countries and used them in order to increase their own wealth. Therefore these countries can not use their own resources for their own development and enrichment. Even if you look at Vietnam, it was not about Communist alone (although Communism did end U.S. and European control of Vietnam's resources). It was about the natural resources within Vietnam, particular rubber. Look at Iraq, we invaded with the excuse of nuclear weapons and terrorism. Whose companies are in control of Iraq oil fields? It sure as hell isn't Iraqi companies. People need to pull the wools from over their eyes and understand the truth behind wealth distribution and poverty.

So the quick answer is that U.S. is richer because it controls other nations resources through capitalism, and uses force to maintain that control.

Finally, I have been thinking of books that I could suggest that you read so that you can better understand the truth. You should start with a book called "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James W. Loewen. It is well sourced (pretty much every paragraph is sourced). This way you can read researchable fact rather than take my word for it.

Also, just for clarification, I do not believe in the idea that rich people can't go to heaven (if in fact there is a heaven). I have no problem with people being rich, as long as they recognize the truth and stop putting blame on the poor in order to relieve their own guilt. It is also fine to have two legs, but don't say that the guy with one leg doesn't want two or that he has one leg because he won't work hard enough.
Edited August 3, 2010 by Harlot (see edit history)

[truefusion 3]

I just find it a little ridiculous that rich people would have harder times. *anyone* can become rich by not wasting money. So the religious meaning behind the scripture quoted before means "if you don't spend all of your money you'll have a harder time getting into Heaven than someone who saves up for things they want instead of wasting it?"
It just doesn't make sense.

Not to mention look at the leader of any major church. They are *all* rich, with mansions and nice cars. Yet they do nothing but preach about Jesus/God all day, everyday. Again, I find it hard to believe that they are punished for their money.

I guess I'm clearly missing something here. I feel if a job offers you $1 million a year to work for them you shouldn't be punished for accepting it. If you spend the time and effort learning the trade (think about those who go to school 16 years for their profession) it shows they are outgoing and persistent. I highly doubt God sees that as negative.


At the end of the day only one person knows. I just think you guys are misinterpreting it.

What about the old saying that you have to waste money to make money? I believe the part that doesn't make sense is the part about becoming rich without wasting money (or resources), at least practically. If a person could choose any job they wished, if there weren't times of depression where those above did not fire hundreds of people below them just so the ones above can keep their wealth, then there wouldn't be any who goes hungry or homeless. A person who saves and never wastes or makes use of what they have is equal to those who have nothing. What good is their resources then? It is merely for the sake of staring at it.

Your interpretation, of course it is not going to make sense, because it doesn't follow from the quoted verse. Your interpretation assumes that simply having lots of money means you'll be punished for it. It is not simply having lots of money that makes it harder for them to get into heaven, but the fact that they are saving it up for nothing is what will make it harder for them to enter heaven. A person who doesn't care about their money will waste it, and the wise will use their money to help the world prosper. But a person not willing to give up their resources is merely selfish. Those who seek more are never filled.

Those who have more, more will be asked of. Keeping things all for themselves, therefore, is not beneficial. If anyone wants to be rich, they may seek after it; they just have to keep in mind that there is a bigger picture that is to be painted.

[rpgsearcherz 5]

What about the old saying that you have to waste money to make money? I believe the part that doesn't make sense is the part about becoming rich without wasting money (or resources), at least practically. If a person could choose any job they wished, if there weren't times of depression where those above did not fire hundreds of people below them just so the ones above can keep their wealth, then there wouldn't be any who goes hungry or homeless. A person who saves and never wastes or makes use of what they have is equal to those who have nothing. What good is their resources then? It is merely for the sake of staring at it.
Your interpretation, of course it is not going to make sense, because it doesn't follow from the quoted verse. Your interpretation assumes that simply having lots of money means you'll be punished for it. It is not simply having lots of money that makes it harder for them to get into heaven, but the fact that they are saving it up for nothing is what will make it harder for them to enter heaven. A person who doesn't care about their money will waste it, and the wise will use their money to help the world prosper. But a person not willing to give up their resources is merely selfish. Those who seek more are never filled.

Those who have more, more will be asked of. Keeping things all for themselves, therefore, is not beneficial. If anyone wants to be rich, they may seek after it; they just have to keep in mind that there is a bigger picture that is to be painted.

That makes a little sense. I was under the understanding (based on what they were saying) that if you were to, for example, save up $2 mil and buy a mansion and a Ferrari that you were going against God's wishes.

But based on what you're saying, by purchasing both of those you are still helping others (all of the people who were paid to build the house/make the parts needed for it, as well as everyone who took part in building the car, not to mention taxes). Which means that by saving up and purchasing those you are not sinning; you are still giving back.

I am catching that right, correct?


(And that's not in any way to be taken as condescending or anything -- that's just how it seemed you meant to me. And as for the others my understanding was that by having those things you're a sinner).

[truefusion 3]

That makes a little sense. I was under the understanding (based on what they were saying) that if you were to, for example, save up $2 mil and buy a mansion and a Ferrari that you were going against God's wishes.
But based on what you're saying, by purchasing both of those you are still helping others (all of the people who were paid to build the house/make the parts needed for it, as well as everyone who took part in building the car, not to mention taxes). Which means that by saving up and purchasing those you are not sinning; you are still giving back.

I am catching that right, correct?

That would keep the economy flowing. However, when a person exchanges money for something of equal value, have they lost anything if they are the receiver of what they've exchanged the money for? Was it not of equal value? What have they done, then, except maintain their riches? Are they therefore in a position lower than what they were before the purchase? A rich person seeking to remain rich will never put more into something that won't provide them at least equal gain. But Heaven requests that you lose in order to gain. This is the conflict of interests between a rich person and between Heaven. For that reason it is harder for a rich person to enter Heaven than a camel a needle's eye.

[sheepdog 10]

This may be very insensitive but I feel 99.9% of the poor are there because they don't want to do what's required to rise above it.

Insensitive no. True, yes.
Granted, in some instances when you are down and out, it is a lot harder to find ways to pull yourself up out of the hole you've fallen into, but it is possible and can happen if a person has the will power, and the determined spirit to improve their lot in life.

And I do get rather tired of hearing how the rich are exploiting the poor people in third world countries. If I was to become rich, (not likely, but always a possibility) it would be because I worked my very own little butt off to become that way. My rise to the top would not be because I sold baseball gloves sewn together by some poor starving child. I exploite no one in the raising of dogs. And for those children that are sewing up ball gloves. Are they ot getting paid? Is someone holding a gun to their heads and making them work? Can they not find a way to use the money they do make to better themselves? I would certainly think they would be better off than those who did not have a job at all.

But anyway, to the original topic, I suppose it depend on how you got rich. What you have in possesions doens't have a single thing to do with whether or not you go to heaven or hell. It all depends on how you got rich. If you did it cheating people or stealing it or commiting other crimes like drug dealing I figure your pretty much out of luck. I'm not even sure if what you do with the money you make plays a huge roll either. Even if you give to charities and anti up when your churches collection plate passes by you, that's no great guarantee. I don't think you can buy your way into heaven. If you donate, but still act like a jerk, hurt people, are mean and unfair in your dealings with others, all the money on earth isn't going to make you a saint or buy you a ticket to heaven.

[anwiii 17]

first of all, i would like to say that this is one of the most ridiculous topics ever. if money dictates whether it's easy or hard to get in to heaven, heaven is just not the place for me. i'll give my ticket to someone else if they really want to be there.

This may be very insensitive but I feel 99.9% of the poor are there because they don't want to do what's required to rise above it.

rpg- it is not insesitive at all. it is ignorance that makes you say that statement. in fact, i look around and i see that same thinking in other people and it's really sad to see it. money may make things easier, but it SURE as heck doesn't build character or the other important things in life. so while you belittle the people who don't have money and not taking the easy route....you work for that money, rpg, and don't ever think twice about your life because if you did......even for an instant, it would ruin that dreamworld you are living in.

i am not going to take a stand whether one should be rich or poor(in regards to money), but i will always take a stand against societies views that look down on people who don't have as much money as their neighbor.

it's funny. where i went to church, our pastor had to make a decision in his own life. you see, he was an all american football player and had a chance to play for the los angeles rams making millions of dollars. he made his choice to teach others. so instead, every sunday during football season, he would run down the isle with a ucla football helemt right before being serious in what he had to share that week....

you see, some people actually CHOOSE NOT TO make a whole heck of a lot because the alternative will lead them in doing something that doesn't fullfill them inside completely. so before you start judging people and acting like a fool, rpg.....maybe you need to live poor. even for a day. maybe you will learn something. maybe you wont. but i am sure it wont be easy for your mind to adjust to it knowing money will always give you that easy way out in life while not learning a darn thing except what money can buy.

[Harlot 2]

Insensitive no. True, yes.

Granted, in some instances when you are down and out, it is a lot harder to find ways to pull yourself up out of the hole you've fallen into, but it is possible and can happen if a person has the will power, and the determined spirit to improve their lot in life.

 

And I do get rather tired of hearing how the rich are exploiting the poor people in third world countries. If I was to become rich, (not likely, but always a possibility) it would be because I worked my very own little butt off to become that way. My rise to the top would not be because I sold baseball gloves sewn together by some poor starving child. I exploite no one in the raising of dogs. And for those children that are sewing up ball gloves. Are they ot getting paid? Is someone holding a gun to their heads and making them work? Can they not find a way to use the money they do make to better themselves? I would certainly think they would be better off than those who did not have a job at all.

 

But anyway, to the original topic, I suppose it depend on how you got rich. What you have in possesions doens't have a single thing to do with whether or not you go to heaven or hell. It all depends on how you got rich. If you did it cheating people or stealing it or commiting other crimes like drug dealing I figure your pretty much out of luck. I'm not even sure if what you do with the money you make plays a huge roll either. Even if you give to charities and anti up when your churches collection plate passes by you, that's no great guarantee. I don't think you can buy your way into heaven. If you donate, but still act like a jerk, hurt people, are mean and unfair in your dealings with others, all the money on earth isn't going to make you a saint or buy you a ticket to heaven.

 

Will power and determination has nothing to do with it. What family you are born into has everything to do with it. I don't understand why the concept is so hard to grasp. If you are born poor, you usually die poor. If you are born rich, you usually die rich. These are simple statistics. People tend to dismiss truths that are uncomfortable for them to accept. Furthermore, you rise to the top has everything to do with little kids making baseball glove in sweatshops. You have the opportunity that you have based on the suffering of others. That is a fact.

 

And as for someone putting a gun to their head to force them to work, they have to eat, that is why they work. If you live in a country where all the resource are hoarded by white western capitalistic, who deprive the people living in those areas control of their land and resources, you would be working for $10 a week also. Furthermore, your children wouldn't be able to go to school because they have to work in order to keep food on the table. You don't have to live under those conditions, so you refuse to understand. You rather believe the lie that you have more because you work hard and smarter, but as I said, the truth uncomfortable and inconvenient. You don't know what hard work is, seriously. There are people who work 15-16 hours a day and still barely can afford to eat. By your reasoning, perhaps they should work harder.

 

The money that they do make is spent on living. You seriously don't understand how things work in third world countries, and their are actually racial undertones in those operations. The fact is that Western whites own the majority of land and resources in third world countries and they wish for it to stay that way. In Africa for example, when the armies pulled out, the whites kept the land and they still have it today.

 

South Africa - Whites own 90% of the land (As of 2007)

 

Kenya - Whites own 73% of the land (As of 2003)

 

Zimbabwe - Whites own 73% of the land (As of 2003)

 

Lets note that some if the figures may be a little different now since the first link is from 2007, and the other two from 2003. Its now 2010, so the numbers may be slightly higher or lower based on land reform and other factors that may have taken place since. In Zimbawae, whites make up about .03% of the population, but yet they own 73% of the land. That is insanity. Imagine if Africans owned 73% of the land and resources in the United States and they gained it through colonization. It simply wouldn't be tolerated, especially if the resources from those lands are being shipped back to Africa instead of fueling the economy in the United States. Eventually the children within the U.S. would be digging through trash and working in sweatshops ran by Africans if such was tolerated.

 

Every country should have control of their own resources, and use those resources to feed their own people. It should not be used to give you or any other outsider advantages and unequal opportunity. You can deny the facts all you want, but the facts stand alone and all the rhetoric about people being about to achieve based on determination is nothing more than baseless propaganda and denial. I will leave you with a quote.

Man has always sacrificed truth to his vanity, comfort and advantage. He lives by make-believe.

~W. Somerset Maugham

 

[Shahrukh 0]

(...)

the Bible says that the love for money is the root of all evil, that those who seek after it never have enough, and that you can only serve one master.

(...)

 

I totally agree with that. Islam also sets a similar rule.

If you go after money and riches, you will have to do a lot of bad things, in most cases. Like bribery, murder, etc. Not everyone has to do them, of course. But consider all the mafia bosses and the corrupt government and police officials. The things they do for money are pretty ruthless.

Again, seeking wealth for our well being, satisfying our needs and a bit of fun is not bad. Its when you indulge yourself so deep in it that you forget the God who gave everything to you. If He takes it away, what can you do about it? Nothing!

We should keep that in mind.

 

And for the last part, "you can only serve one master", this is also very true.

The Holy Quran, the Holy Book of the Muslims, also say the same thing.

 

Therefore, rich people can go to heaven. The money doesn't help or restrict anything. Its the way how we earn the money and how we spend it that matters.

If you earn money by robbing people and then spend it all in the casino, well, you ain't going no where.

But if you earn your money by a legal, white collar job and spend it to feed your family, give them clothes, shelter and all their needs, you are a good man.

 

If you are born rich, you usually die rich

 

I do not agree with that. My father was so poor that he did not have electricity in his house. Now, thanks to God, he is very rich. We have houses in 2 of the best cities in the country. Have 2 cars, good computers, mobiles, appliances, etc. etc.

And he is an engineer. So his way of earning it all was not bad at all.