Do You Like Php?

[nolan 0]

Hi,

You mentioned my name below but I'm not sure that this is a response to what I said, as it seems more like a general statement. I don't disagree that PHP is the most widely available language in terms of web host availability. I hesitate to say "most popular" for any language due to the fact that "popular" is relational to perspective. If you're referring to popularity by volume of use by all web developers, yes, I'd say PHP is the most popular. If you're referring to popularity amongst professional developers only, the picture might change. If you're referring to popularity by actual web app usage, again, it would be an entirely different story. That's not considering popularity amongst specific development communities/niches, either.

As for the point about performance, again I don't disagree, although this is compensated for through scalability. The thing you then have to consider is how much money you want to soak into hardware resources to maintain an app in one language versus another (that is, would you rather have 6 computers scaling a Language X app or 3 scaling a Language Y app, all else equal). Once more, though, everything is relative. Someone might know, for example, that Lift outperforms Django and Ruby on Rails in terms of web framework speed, but does that mean they'll necessarily choose the faster framework? No. And in this case, for good reason (the Lift documentation is horrible). The ease-of-use, general functionality, and other aspects of a language also play a vital role in driving these decisions.

It all goes back to the point I'd mentioned in my post: all languages have their own advantages/disadvantages.

@nolan
PHP, which is a part of the LAMP packages offered by most hosting providers, is much more popular than Perl or Python. There are firms that still prefer to use a compiled language or a platform on which the source code can be obfuscated such that they don't give away their source code when they send out programming libraries and software components. Performance is another issue that many firms are concerned about when developing web applications with PHP.

[Quatrux 4]

Yes, I'm talking about my written CMS from a blank php file, but sometimes I think that it's my CMS written on my own framework as CMS can really be just echo $output; and with a lot of modules/plugins to make it a CMS and that echo $output; can run on a "framework" by using it's classes and functions

@Quatrux
I am assuming you have a CMS written in PHP. Is it your own CMS or do you use an open-source CMS such as Joomla!, Drupal, or WordPress (a lot of people have their doubts about the use of WordPress as a CMS, but there are many many websites out there that use WordPress as a CMS system due to its simplicity).

I don't really like Joomla, as it's code is crap and it's so large nowadays that I've seen better and more simpler CMS. I used to use Drupal, but it's code is also a different taste, usually If I can I do everything with modified Wordpress.
Edited January 3, 2010 by Quatrux (see edit history)

[legend112 0]

I like PHP alright but I have just discovered Java is a much more serious and deadly tool!!!I used php for a bit with mysql and quite an impressive combination...so yea, PHP rocks!

[elevenmil 0]

Actually most of my experience is only with HTML and PHP. I do like PHP as it was simple to understand learning how to code for us "amateurs". I tried learning other codes, but maybe I needed to study a bit harder because other codes just never caught on. I will say though, that PHP was mighty simple and I give credit to alot of the oldies on Trap for helping me get used to PHP back in the day. If I ever did put together another complicated website like I did in the past, I would probably have to start in HTML and then work my way back into PHP, its been too long...

[BluePwNaGe 0]

I personally love PHP, just because in my opinion its easier or atleast e107 makes it easier for me . For people who want to use PHP onto their web you should give e107 a try.E107 is a program that gets installed and can be used very easily to arrange/customize your web page. I've been using it ever since my friend taught me and i've been keeping to it since its the only thing i know how to do .

[Jonnyabc 0]

Although I have been aware of PHP for a long time now, it was not until I got onto Xisto's forum (Xisto's partner site) that I found a link to a program, WAMP (or WampServer) that allows me to operate PHP from home.Huzzah! This is the program I've been waiting for someone to tell me about! Now I can enjoy coding in PHP to my heart's content!

[k_nitin_r 8]

Hi!Wow! I've pretty much lost track of this thread and there's so much being said to me up there after my post on the thread. The flood control has been slowing my down in responding to forum posts. Here's my reply to the individual posters:@nolanI completely agree with you there. Popularity of languages is relative to the group that one is referring to. Web designers prefer to use PHP due to its simplicity. Some of the folks who worked with Flash in the early days would probably want to work with ColdFusion because it comes from the same vendor and probably because they have a license to work with the entire suite of products that Macromedia had to offer. Within universities, perhaps C, C++, and Java are more popular than any of the other scripting or programming language that the computing world has to offer. Programming language preferences vary between the developers in bioinformatics, who prefer Perl over all else with Java coming as a close second, and developers in software development firms who either work with C# or Java.@QuatruxAlthough CMS systems do vary greatly in functionality, we probably need to define the minimum functionality that needs to be provided by a content management system in order for it to be considered as one. An echo statement provides output to the end user, but does not really provide any interface for the administrator or content writers to submit content. The approval and disapproval process for articles is probably another feature that many content management systems have. I can't really think of anything more that a content management system should absolutely have, but I guess those two are the basics. Many content management systems support plugins so you do not have to modify the core system to provide additional functionality. Proprietary content management systems may not necessarily provide this functionality but would instead hand you the code for modification along with some documentation at which point your might be on your own.I'm a pretty big WordPress fan too, but there are times when I did wish for some capabilites that WordPress did not include and that I had to turn to other content management systems for. It may be possible to write a plugin for WordPress that adds the required functionality, I preferred to go with something that already had the feature available out-of-the-box.

[kira423 1]

Oooo I love php, it is so much easier than writing a bunch of html and adding everything, and it saves a lot of space too!! Right now I am building a game website, and it generates the html all by itself. I love it!!! Other than actually writing the php script itself, it is a lazy man or woman way of building a great site quickly

[k_nitin_r 8]

Hi!@kira423What do you use for writing PHP code? Do you use an integrated development environment or simply a text editor with syntax highlighting, or maybe even Microsoft Notepad!! :-PAmong ASP.NET developers, if anybody can write an application using Microsoft Notepad, he or she attains guru-status in his or her community because most ASP.NET developers rely excessively on the Visual Studio IDE. Using Microsoft Notepad may sound very amateurish to most people in management because, quite literally, it sounds like something that even the managers can work with :-DPHP has a really extensive set of functions that covers just about everything from string processing to creating flash based files and that makes it difficult for a novice to master without having had considerable experience and a really good memory to memorize all the function names and class names. Having auto-complete, which Microsoft refers to as Intellisense, does help greatly in getting new converts from other programming languages and platforms in joining the party because it reduces the learning curve that developers need to use in order to start developing applications.Lately, there have been a lot of PHP-based code generators coming up that help developers in getting started. That's in addition to the content management systems, blogging engines, and web development frameworks that make software development effortless, quick and simple.When Rasmus Lerdorf first put together PHP, it was intended as a simple server-side scripting language for putting together personal web sites guest books and counters. The programming language itself has evolved a long way since then and it is used for serious development, such as the development team at Facebook uses. Among the open source community, PHP is considered a first-class development platform for web applications and you can find libraries for just about anything from building Twitter clients and Facebook applications to working with all of the common database management systems, such as MySQL, Postgresql, ORacle, and Microsoft SQL Server.PHP has had a lot of competition gunning for it lately. There's the Python programming language that has had a lot of attention and the Django web development framework is being heavily promoted as a framework built on present-day technology for building the web-based applications of tomorrow (that sounds almost like a marketing slogan for a programming language or platform that a commercial vendor might issue for promotion). Two months ago, Facebook introduced a PHP extension that enables developers to use XML within PHP source code, such as by echo-ing an XML document part instead of having to convert it into a string. Essentially, it eliminates the need to put quotes around XHTML markup that you want to echo and it uses the semicolon as the statement delimiter so you can echo the markup without having to use heredocs, nowdocs, string concatenation, or conversion of the XML into a string.Sure, Facebook is a social networking firm and they did get a free lunch (referring to the free availability and open source nature of PHP) like everybody else, but they do like to give back to the community and they have been investing quite heavily in optimizing PHP to run with heavy user loads. Zend is another major player that focuses equally on building web development frameworks and runtime environments for executing PHP code. Zend provides community editions of most of its software so you can try it out before you do decide to reach for your wallet and purchase a license to use their software. Zend also includes a customized version of the Eclipse development environment for PHP called the Zend Studio that rivals features that NuSphere's PhpEd has to offer.

[kira423 1]

I use notepad++ it is a free download, and it is like notepad on speed LoL. If I am in a hurry to meet a deadline though I use Adobe DreamWeaver, but I mostly stick with the notepad What do you use?

[k_nitin_r 8]

Hi!@kira423I use Notepad++ too! It's open source and free. I have never been able to get the automatic updates to work on Notepad++, but it still remains as an interesting piece of software to work with. I use Notepad++ when there's a specific PHP file that I need to modify the source code of, but when I am working with an entire project, I prefer to use the Eclipse-based integrated development environment for PHP. I have had the Eclipse PHP IDE stop recognizing PHP files after the latest update, so it has its own share of bugs but I do like the way Eclipse presents the files in the folder in a toolbox. Notepad++ can present a light version of the folder explorer too, but does not support the advanced syntax highlighting that Eclipse does. I find Adobe Dreamweaver quite useful for working with CSS and the markup.I've tried using NuSphere's PhpEd, which is a pretty good IDE though it is a commercial product.

[roger112 0]

I like php so much! lolI have used php for most of my life, its the first programming language that I learned and now i'm pretty comfortable with it, I'm now learning module development for Drupal CMS and I recommend php for anyone getting into the coding profession but you have to read lots of books to be good!PHP rocks!Long live PHP and web-programming!lol

[k_nitin_r 8]

Hi!@rogerThat's pretty neat! I was trying to do some Drupal development along with a buddy from the forums. I didn't really get very far because as soon as I got the hang of building themes for Drupal, I got occupied with some other stuff and that was about all I got to investigate Drupal for. Hey, perhaps if you come up with some interesting stuff to share about Drupal, you could post to the forums - you can rack up on MyCENTs for hosting and the rest of us can follow you as you explore Drupal as a software developer.Web development is pretty cool, but some do not consider it to be true programming because for the most part, instead of dealing with memory leaks, concurrency, and threading, we are dealing with layouts, Javascript, and working our way around security 'features' that browsers implement to keep us from our goal. Sure, browser security measures are meant to prevent us from doing certain things but then why do the workarounds exist? And if the workarounds do exist, wouldn't somebody else make use of the workaround to write malicious code the same way we do? Proponents of the idea that web programming isn't true programming suggest that having to target multiple web browsers and ensuring that the client-side scripts work for everybody is more of a quality control role within software development and it isn't exactly the kind of stuff software engineers should be worried about.I don't really agree with the view that web programming shouldn't be considered true programming. It's just a different kind of programming and it has its own challenges that have to be appreciated and treated as genuine problems within the software development community.

[kira423 1]

@ nitinAnother good one would be rubycode??? I believe thats the name, can't remember for sure, but it is also free, and is similar to the notepad++, but it came out first, and it's not open source. I used it for a while, but I was blown away by the notepad I just stopped using it. I've never heard of eclipse, so I am not quite sure about it though! >.<

[k_nitin_r 8]

Hi!@kira423I've tried looking for RubyCode but I can't seem to find it. Perhaps they've rebranded the product or renamed the project on their hosting site? Was RubyCode free and open-source or was it a commercial product? From the name, I would guess that it provided syntax highlighting only for Ruby code, and perhaps for HTML, cascading style sheets and some Javascript too.Eclipse is a really popular platform for building integrated development environments (IDEs). You can build an integrated development environment for your own programming language if you wanted to and Eclipse would be the best place to start because it provides application programming interfaces for you to hook up your own code to for providing auto-complete suggestions to the user while typing in source code, you can attach debuggers to the code while it is executing so you can trace the execution, look up variable values, examine the stack, look up the errors that occur during execution, and you can define which keywords are highlighted by the syntax highlighting feature of Eclipse. Eclipse itself is Java based so the users would have to install the Java Runtime Environment (JRE). It is a small download (though not too small), and is different from the Java Development Kit (JDK) which is what you would be installing if you wanted to build the integrated development environment for your programming language. You might find some references to the Java Development Kit with the term Java Software Development Kit (SDK) - they are one and the same but they used different naming conventions at different points in time.You might have heard about NetBeans, which is quite popular as a Java integrated development environment. NetBeans can do pretty much whatever Eclipse can do, but Eclipse seems to be more popular outside the Java development community. NetBeans also has a customized version for PHP development. I'm not aware of any NetBeans based integrated development environment for C, C++, Ruby, or any other programming and scripting languages but I would not be surprised if they do exist, given the flexibility of the IDE development platforms.