Economic Stimulus Not.

[sheepdog 10]

How many of you have seen and studied the list of the economic stimulus package the democrats are pushing? Can you say PORK BARREL???? The vast majority of the money is going to other government agencies so even more beauracrats can siphon off their piece of the pie. There is very little in it to create jobs and help all those people who are loosing their homes and jobs. For example:

* $43.9 billion for the Department of Energy (DOE),

* $4.5 billion for the Army Corps of Engineers

* $500 million for the Bureau of Reclamation

* $4 billion to the Department of Defense to repair, maintain, and renovate its facilities; for energy-efficiency projects, including the modernizing of heating/cooling and electrical systems; and for improving Army barracks

* $1.1 billion for a variety of programs administered by the Department of Homeland Security

* $4 billion to the Department of Defense to repair, maintain, and renovate its facilities;

Even if it does create some jobs, those will be government jobs! They will not help the private sector, or do anything to support the free enterprise system. Government contracts go to the good old boy network, those contracts will be doled out to favorites and those who will “pay back” with more contributions to the already disgustingly corrupt system.

 

And there is even more bad news. Many many $$$ are going to be pumped into the welfare system, so the American tax payer has an even larger burden on his shoulders paying the way for lazy good for nothings collecting their welfare checks and food stamps.

* $87 billion for Medicare outlays and related spending

* $20 billion toward nutrition assistance program (food stamps)

* $20.4 billion for programs administered by the Department of Health and Human Services

Now, if you really want to get mad, watch the U-Tube video of the idiots we elected arguing how they should NOT give the money to white male construction workers! I can’t believe they had the nerve to say such a thing! Can you imagine the uproar if they said something like that about blacks? No heaven forbid we give money to people who work for an honest living!

 

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

 

I think it is pretty safe to say, our government does not have a clue as to how to fix the disaster our economy had gotten into. And they funny (?) part is, it’s not rocket science. Even somebody that isn’t any smarter than I am can figure it out. We, as Americans can fix the problem all by ourselves, without any help from the idiots in Washington.

First, and foremost.

 

BUY AMERICAN!!!

 

I really don’t care about sweat shops in China and India where children are forced into what practically amounts to slave labor. We don’t need their soccer balls and shoes and shirts. If it can’t be made in America, you don’t need it. Granted, it may be difficult to find many of the things we use in our every day lives that aren’t foreign made, but there will never be jobs in America if we continue to support foreign products.

 

We need to think long and hard about all the purchases we make. Just who is profiting from our hard earned dollars?

Here is a simple thing you can do to stimulate the economy.

 

Buy a dog from a breeder.

Under NO circumstances should you get a dog from the humane society or a rescue group They are like leaches on society,. these organizations are as bad as the welfare system. They pay no taxes on the profits they make. (and oh yes, they do make profits) They hire no employees, the work is done by volunteers. They contribute nothing to society. The unpaid volunteers pay the expenses for the dogs out of their pockets, or from the contributions of others. Their income is derived from the sale of dogs that in many cases, they have stolen from dog breeders. So not only do they not help the economy, they are actually involved often times in criminal activities that destroy the income of honest working people. They also depend on contributions from average people who do not have unlimited budgets, and only have certain dollar amounts that can be given to “charity.” When they contribute those dollars to animal rights causes, they are taking the money that could be better spent on finding cures for disease and helping starving and abused children. They are like a plague of locust stripping the earth of it’s resources and giving back nothing in return.

 

On the other hand, Breeders are a great boon to the economy. Nearly all the profits from sales of dogs actually go straight back into the economy. Raising dogs is expensive and a breeder has to make many purchases that actually spread out all through the economy. We don’t just support dog food companies and veterinarians. The products that a breeder will purchase/use covers a huge array of other industries. Raising dogs requires a great deal of equipment, supplies, housing, transportation, (not only car or truck but by air) advertising, machinery, tools, office supplies, and a multitude of other things. Just think of all the people I help to support when all I do is build one new dog house. This effects the lumber yard and the people who work there where I buy my 2X4’s and plywood. Then there is the truck driver who delivered the finished lumber to the lumber yard. There was the factory that made the wood chips into plywood. The saw mill that took the raw trees and made them into lumber. The logger who cut the trees and the trucker again who hauled the trees to the saw mill. And the farmer on who’s land the trees grew who sold them to the logger. That is a LOT of people! (and I didn’t even mention the mechanics who keep the trucks and chain saws working, or the fact that I will need to paint that dog house, there‘s even more people I‘ll be helping) Those loggers and truck drivers and mill workers all take their pay checks and go out and eat, supporting restaurants and the employees’ there, make their house payments, buy groceries, computers, cars, trucks, boats, you name it.

 

All dog breeders I know have “wish” lists. Things they would buy if they had the money. On my own list are lots of things that would have far reaching effects on helping the economy. I need a new microscope. A new pair of electric dog clippers. (wonder if they still make those in the USA?) I need some new pens, those, like the dog houses made of wood, help another huge industry, the metal workers. Again, from the shops that sell the finished metal products like the horse panels we use to build good safe sturdy pens all the way down to the people who dig, refine and transport ore. (or collect and haul recycled metal)

 

So, do yourself and the economy a favor, and purchase your next dog from a breeder. Your fellow Americans will thank you.

[truefusion 3]

Under NO circumstances should you get a dog from the humane society or a rescue group.

I can understand most of everything else, but what about the dilemma that would come from this? What plan do you have for it? That is, what is to be expected of the lives of the animals that these organizations hold if no one is adopting animals from them? Even if appeal to emotion is how they make (most of) their income, and even if you're against them earning (taking) profits (from people like you), what would you suggest? Let them run out of resources till they shutdown, then take all the animals from them as possible? Promote apathy? Or...?

[sheepdog 10]

Of course I have sugestions.

 

First off, as I allready mentioned, they steal a great number of the animals they have. In many cases, the shelters that the dogs are taken to are WORSE conditions than they were in at the breeders kennel they were stolen from. I know this to be fact. I have studied many of these "raids" and have in some cases, known the facilities that the dogs came out of. The dogs did not get a better lot in life, and a lot of dogs were actually killed due to the stupidity of the so called rescueers.

 

Now, do you have any idea how much HSUS takes in each year?

And do you know how much they spend on the actual physical care of dogs????

Answer to the first question is in the millions of dollars. Answer to the second question, 0 Thats right, 0. Big fat ZERO!!! They spend NO money on dogs. Not a dimes worth of dog food or a single vet bill. ALL of their money goes to lawyers, and politicians and lobbyests, trying to pass more laws to restrict the owning of animals. Having said that, do you know that the vast majority of dogs in shelters are mixed breed dogs from irresponsible pet owners who do not spay/neuter their pets or contain them during their heat cycles. If HSUS would stop squandering all it's donations on politicians, a cost effective spay/neuter program would make a HUGE dent in the numbers of dogs in shelters. They could better educate the public about the health benefits of spay/neutering instead of like PETA spending those ad dollars on evil ad campaigns that compare human holcost survivors to chickens, and dog breeders as members of the KKK. In this day and age there is no excuse for all those mixed breed dogs in the shelters. The money is there to take care of the problem. It's just being pissed away on shear stupidity.

 

Now, there are some cases where a rescue can play a worthwhile part in cases where dogs need to be rehomed. In the event of the death of an elderly dog owner, or other personal disaster in the human household where a pet can no longer be kept, but these cases are only a tiny part of what rescues are now doing. So, for the person who wants an adult dog rescues can be an option. But of course, you aren't helping the economy, and you encourageing a business that in too many instances is not in the best interest of the dog.

[truefusion 3]

Of course I have sugestions.

And what are they? Re-read your entire post and you'll see you provide none. Even if i were to run off of implications, i am only left with educating HSUS (whoever they are) on how to properly handle animals and money. From what i get from your post, that's like, "Good luck in doing so!" Your entire post is basically an attempt to get me to hate HSUS based on your words—a form of appeal to emotion. What could this do? That can only make me want to do one of two things: (1) hurry up and take (legally) as many animals as i can from them, which would require handing over some cash, or (2) seek to shut them down, which according to you is practically impossible due to all their lawyers; and even if i were to successfully shut them down, i would be left with a dilemma on where to place all those animals that we would be left with. Unfortunately for you, i do not easily appeal to emotion, especially when appealing to emotion doesn't even help the already-worse(-by-your-words) situation that exists. Therefore, how would you solve the dilemmas that would come from this? What are your suggestions?

[jlhaslip 4]

I'm thinking that HSUS is the Humane Society of United States as found on Google: http://www.humanesociety.org/

[Echo_of_thunder 1]

Buy a dog from a breeder. Under NO circumstances should you get a dog from the humane society or a rescue group They are like leaches on society,. these organizations are as bad as the welfare system.

Okay now I am well Beeping Pissed. As someone that is a pet lover, and who is a firm believer in the humane socity and rescue groups, I am apauled by reading that! And From a Dog owner too! Why should I go and put money into a breeders pocket when I can go to the ASAPCA and find a full breed there that is in need of a home. Yes Full Breed! It would suprise you just how many full breed puppies and full grown dogs and cats for that matter are put up for adoption from these shelters. For just a small fee a lot less than you would have to pay from a breeder. Also with buying from a breeder your just putting a dog or cat to death. why? Because of some people think Oh buy from a breeder, when they dont know what they are talking about. I know this is stepping on toes, but I don't give a hoot honestly. I work weekly as a volenteer in a shelter for pets. I dee full breeds all the time there. Pits, Dobies, German sheepers. Even Sheepdogs. All Full breed. True some do not have AKC papers But some Do that have been brought in because there owners have a new job and have to move or other reasons.

So saying you shouldnt get a dog from a shelter? Ha! Stop thinking of your pockets and think of the dog.

[sheepdog 10]

So saying you shouldnt get a dog from a shelter? Ha! Stop thinking of your pockets and think of the dog

You are quoting, word for word, the exact same retoric the humane societies have been using for years. The vast majority of which is BS. And as usual, totally missing the whole point. You even admit to being mad that some one dare mention buying a dog. Why? If you had actually though about what I said, you would of seen that I am thinking about the dogs welfare. Let me say it one more time. If HSUS would cough up some cash for spay/neuter free clinics there wouldn't be all those dogs in the shelter to die!!!! Get it???? It's not really that complicated.

Just for fun, here are the facts from the HSUS 2006 tax return
$91.5 million recieved from direct public support
$85.8 million spent in functional expenses such as
$28 million spent on salaries and benefits
$17.8 million on mailing costs
$8.9 million on publications and campaignes
$3.7 million on travel costs
$127 million Amount HSUS has in stocks, and publicly traded securities. None allocated to any support programs.

I work weekly as a volenteer in a shelter for pets. I dee full breeds all the time there. Pits, Dobies, German sheepers. Even Sheepdogs. All Full breed.

Yes, all large breed dogs. Most people today are looking for small dogs, placing dogs in the large breed catagory is difficult.

Research shows that less than 15% of dogs in shelters are purebred. However, the ancestory of the dogs is not the issue here. And I didn't say you couldn't get a purebred from rescue, of course you can, they steal purebreds from breeders all the time. As far as that often quoted line about how if you buy from a breeder a shelter dog will die, well, that's just hog wash. If a person wants a tiny maltese for their apartment, they are not going to go get a doberman from a shelter because it will die if they don't. Many apartments have size limits on dogs. So if they can't get a small dog, they basicly can't have a dog, and the dobbie in the shelter is doomed at any rate.

That's very nice you volenteer at yor local shelter. For the record, HSUS has no connection with local shelters. They do not contribute money to the local level animal shelters. So, if you want to be mad, how about being pissed about that 28 million HSUS spends on saleries while you donate your time for free?

And what are they? Re-read your entire post and you'll see you provide none.

Well, I thought I made it pretty clear, but in case you missed it, if the Humane Society of the United States would spend some of the millions and millions of dollars that it wastes on politicians, they could fund the spaying and neutering that would prevent all the dogs from being in the shelter in the first place.

Your entire post is basically an attempt to get me to hate HSUS based on your words

No it's not. This is about economic stimulus. Getting a dog from shelters does nothing for the economy.
Although, I do think that it is very important that the public realizes what kind of a scam HSUS is running. All those poor little old ladys who faithfully send in those dontations thinking that they are helping animals are getting bamboozled big time.

[tatati 0]

Unless the department of defense decide to contract outside of America, it looks like a fine stimulus for the engineering and construction sector, it employs many people, 4 billion sounds too little. All that spending with health sounds very nice for a country that produced movies about lack of public health. The population will benefit from that, but the economy not so much, as laboratories and high-end tech. are already held by the wealthy and there is a lot of mechanization in that sector. Energy doesnt employ much people, but a country can?t function without it, and I heard something about achieving independence from the middle east oil suppliers. That should lower oil prices for the rest of the world, we will all thank america if that happens. What puzzles me is why you complaint about the government spending with wellfare in the midst of the unemployment wave that hit america. I think your government is doing the right thing with the funds and is taking good care of americans, keeping them alive to be creative. I hope that in the next few years you don?t pick a fight on anybody claiming that wars bring advancement, which advancement did this last one bring? I had a video of this sniper called Juba, it was one of the most thrilling videos i?ve ever seen in my whole life, the next american that claims a war is good should see some of their youth being killed off guard, there is nothing worse than violence.Good luck with your kennel business, i have dogs and i?m done with pests. they are cute though.

[networker 0]

I don't claim to be an economist,but I'd be all for the but united states.or buy Canadian,or buy British train of thought. Stimulate the local economy right?The problem is that free trade goes completely against that. I say scrap free trade. Scrap outsourcing as well.It seems a true strong economy is a strong local one.

[sheepdog 10]

While it will create jobs (unless as you mentioned, the Dept of Defense contracts outside the USA, in which case they should be hung ) but my concern with that is that those are going to be GOVERNMENT jobs and government contracts. Yes, the private sector will "bid" on those jobs, but I'm sure we all know how the good old boy network works, and it won't nessarilly go to the best contractor, but the one who offers the biggest kick back.

Energy may create more jobs than you think, if they put into production factories for building solar panels and wind generators. Both of which are far better on the enviornment than coal fired power plants and nucs. We could use millions and millions of solar panels, in all shapes and sizes, the possibilites and aplications for their use is limitless, large roof top panels for homes, and other buildings, smaller ones for cars, trucks, boats and RV's, plus any outdoor equipment like electic fence chargers, which now come in either solar or the regular plug in type.

What puzzles me is why you complaint about the government spending with wellfare in the midst of the unemployment wave that hit america.

There is a MAJOR difference between welfare and unemployment. I am glad to see them extending unemployment benefits as there is such a huge number of people loosing their jobs. But unemployment is something that your employeer pays in to the government when you work. Then you get it back in case of a lay off. Welfare is free handouts for lazy, good for nothings that won't even hold down a job. Big difference there.

But anyway, they have passed the bill, so now we can all just sit back and see how badly we are going to get screwed.

[sheepdog 10]

Oh boy, you said that right, I'm not an economist either! Starting to build the economy at the local level really is a good way to start, each community knows it's own strengths and weakness and what their local situation calls for. There is a need for free trade though, lets face it, you can't cut timber in New York City, and you can't fish for tuna in Arizona. But free trade needs BALANCE. Right now the balance is way out of wack. The USA buys and buys and buys, but manufactors less and less and less. It just isn't going to work that way. I agree, we definatly need to scrap outsourcing. That is one of the biggest problems with the job market in this country right now.

[networker 0]

Oh boy, you said that right, I'm not an economist either! Starting to build the economy at the local level really is a good way to start, each community knows it's own strengths and weakness and what their local situation calls for. There is a need for free trade though, lets face it, you can't cut timber in New York City, and you can't fish for tuna in Arizona. But free trade needs BALANCE. Right now the balance is way out of wack. The USA buys and buys and buys, but manufactors less and less and less. It just isn't going to work that way. I agree, we definatly need to scrap outsourcing. That is one of the biggest problems with the job market in this country right now.

The thing is though.They can grow timber in Georgia or just about anywhere in
the u.s. Why would they need free trade for this then?
The u.s.a is so vast in size that surely they could cut down forests with out depleting too many. Just have a rule for every tree they cut down they
must plant one or two new ones.
It sounds simple I know,but wouldn't such a thing stimulate the economy?
I think it would work,but I'm naive.
In a perfect world, what they could manufacture locally(Within a countries borders),they
should manufacture. The manufacturing industry has many beneficial spin offs.
If all the shirts are manufactured in China all these spin offs are lost.

[princeofvegas 0]

You seem to be forgetting that there is going to be A LOT of money coming back to us, the taxpayers. There are alost a lot of tax breaks and such this year for us. For example, if you buy a car in the year 2009, you are able to get a tax writeoff. Not to mention the stimulus checks that we are going to all be getting at the beginning of 2010.Now as for these Dept of Defense contracts, they are going to remain in the United States. My grandfather is part of a defense contracting company and they are going to be receiving huge bonuses from the government if they keep their work inside the united states instead of outsourcing it to companies outside of the united states. Now if only the government would do something like that for our IT corporations such as microsoft and whatnot. If the government gave gthem a bonus to keep their call centers inside the US, then that would create sooo much more jobs for our population.

[Xalor 0]

I think that the true problem is the price of oil and gasoline. Americans are forced to pay the prices as they depend on gas for cars, and the increase in cost hikes the bus costs, and in turn the taxes. As Americans or even the world itself is forced to pay these insane prices, discretionary income decreases, also because minimum wage hasn't gotten a hike in the past year. The amount of money isn't inflating at a proper rate. People don't have the money to spend on entertainment, like movies, food and all that great stuff. Because of lower income, more hours are necessary to help supplement the income, so that explains the current amount of people spending some extra money for the time being. The way to get this problem down is to increase the minimum wage, and to find ways to subsidize the gas, by increasing the taxes slightly so people won't feel bad about the taxes if gas prices are decreased. As America is a nation fundamentally powered by the middle class, a social revolution is not what will happen. Instead it will be that people will be encouraging openness, and more democratic reforms. The government though will respond with a tighter fist, adopting a communist manifesto over an open democracy. That is the first problem to take over, instead of tightening their fist. They have to encourage democratic reforms appealing to the larger cities and the middle classes.

[Echo_of_thunder 1]

I think that the true problem is the price of oil and gasoline. Americans are forced to pay the prices as they depend on gas for cars, and the increase in cost hikes the bus costs, and in turn the taxes. As Americans or even the world itself is forced to pay these insane prices, discretionary income decreases, also because minimum wage hasn't gotten a hike in the past year. The amount of money isn't inflating at a proper rate. People don't have the money to spend on entertainment, like movies, food and all that great stuff. Because of lower income, more hours are necessary to help supplement the income, so that explains the current amount of people spending some extra money for the time being. The way to get this problem down is to increase the minimum wage, and to find ways to subsidize the gas, by increasing the taxes slightly so people won't feel bad about the taxes if gas prices are decreased. As America is a nation fundamentally powered by the middle class, a social revolution is not what will happen. Instead it will be that people will be encouraging openness, and more democratic reforms. The government though will respond with a tighter fist, adopting a communist manifesto over an open democracy. That is the first problem to take over, instead of tightening their fist. They have to encourage democratic reforms appealing to the larger cities and the middle classes.

I don't think the true problem is the price of oil and or gas, but everything in between. Everyone here in the USA is effected as I am sure everyone in the world is, with the high prices of everything. Obama and his Stimulation plan may work here in the US but not everywhere. I feel it will take world wide help, not only America but all other countries of the world to get things back to Normal. But we all know that will not happen. and if it does it may be too late. So many say that we are in a Recession I don't think so. We are in a Deprecession. And this has been in the making for a long time. Even before Bush. Try the Nixon Ford Era. Of corse I do not remeber the great Depression of 1929 I am not that old thank you. But it lasted until almost the end of WWII. I am worried that that maybe what it will take to get us out of this matter. Who really knows the answe to stimulate the the world to get going again. There many ways they could. all they have to do is everyone get together, and look back at what worked and what did not.