Religion - Christianity / Islam

[truefusion 3]

[1]Lets say someone shot and killed your mother. God gave power to the man that shot and killed your mother. [2][3]If he didn't, your mother would still be alive and all that pain and suffering and your family becoming poor and your baby brother becoming motherless wouldn't have happened.

[1]M'ks.

[2]The Book of Job is quite an interesting book—i'm still trying to fully comprehend it—but there's a lot of things to learn from it. The death of my mother causing family problems is something to consider, as it proves we were all dependent on our mother—so, in a way, we were but a burden on her. Of course, your statement assumes i would have no father, and at the same time doesn't do away with the chance of having a father. We, being believers, have nothing to worry for our mother, as due our faith.

[3]God doesn't need to give a human power in order for such an event to occur.

 

2 Again I didn't say WE ARE CREATED TO GO TO HELL. I say if you are going to hell, then God originally planned for you to hell because he created you knowing that you will go to hell.

In post number 3 of this topic, you ask,

why does he create you to go to hell?

But God didn't originally plan for one to go to hell. Knowing that one would eventually go to hell doesn't mean it was part of His plan. Indeed, there are many plans God caused into effect that prevent people from ever entering hell—it's your responsibility for acting reasonably to these things, not Gods.

 

3. Use easier english I'm only a junior 11

I'm not really sure what words you mean, but i'll see what i can do.

 

4. Listen, this isn't me asking questions about religion, I'm not in search of answers, I want you to answer them for me so you can see it inside of your self it doesn't make sense.

M'ks.

 

6. I said bought in (), you're starting to get frustrated here and are not reading enough and or kicking them out of ur head

Actually, just like you with capitalizing all letters in a word, so do my statements bear no emotion in them except where obvious. By "obvious," i mean things like exclamation points, !, and emoticons like this one: . But the context of the parenthesis still stand according to you.

 

7. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! AHA! THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT! It doesn't make sense at all does it? Same thing with god

 

God put the tree there to test Eve or whatever his intentions were. GOD KNOWS EVERYTHING, ANYTHING Eve will do. From the minute she was born to the minute she will die and the after life. Now tell me why would God put the tree there KNOWING that eve will eat the apple? God instructed Eve to NOOOOOT touch the apple, when in the back of his head KNEW it was going to eat it. This is some Saw III *BLEEP* dude....

 

Then Eve eats it, and God becomes surprised and mad? Are you serious? GOD ALREADY KNEW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN!

And last part of your post again with the stove. You didn't get it did you?

I KNEW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN and then I get mad at the stove. That is the part that doesn't make sense / is stupid I assume? EXACTLY! THat's my point! Just as I knew the stove was hot and If I touch it it would burn me, God knew the apple looked attractive to Eve and Eve would Eat it

 

Eve eat apple

Stove burn my hand

I knew it was hot

God knew she would Eat it

 

I got mad knowing it would burn me

God got mad knowing she would eat it

 

Now you catch my drift

Yes, it doesn't make sense because the one that committed the act (i.e. the hot-stove toucher) is angry though they knew of the consequences (i.e. their hand getting burned). God was not the one that ate of the Tree of Knowledge, therefore it cannot be said that God's anger towards the sinner is non-sense; God cannot sin against Himself. Remember, eating the apple is the exact same thing as touching the hot stove in your analogy: in your analogy Eve is you. Sure, God knew you would burn yourself with it, but He never said not to burn yourself. You getting angry 'cause you burned yourself is the exact same thing as Eve being ashamed of herself for bearing knowledge of good and evil for eating the apple—both are emotions caused by a past event. What i was trying to point out is that though these things were already set in place (the stove and the tree), the events that followed were not caused by God but by the imperfect humans. Also, God is known to ask rhetorical questions (i.e. questions that answer themselves because the answer is so obvious).

 

Indeed, i caught your drift, but tossed it back. Did you catch mine?

 

I'm going to say this once and never say it again

I'll be using some caps, that doesn't mean I'm screaming / yelling / mad, just to bring out point more

Mhmm, i noticed a similar comment in your other posts.

 

[1]When God said "Let there be light", who in the world was there to watch him say that? DUHHH?? Ever thought of that?

 

[2]4 men wrote the bible, not God. That's known. Tell me how those 4 men knew about adam and eve, the first humans?

[3]Oh and science proves evolutionism and how humans came to be. We are not monkeys but have the same common ancenstor.

[1]Yeah. Interestingly enough, the Bible answers this question. It says that Jesus was there before all things after him came to be: Proverbs 8:22-31; John 1:1-3.

[2]Did you gain this "fact" from Youtube videos? You seem to be disregarding our statements concerning who indeed wrote the Bible.

[3]Micro evolution has been proven, but not macro evolution, which is what the theory of evolution runs off of. However, evolutionists tend to commit to the fallacy of appealilng to probability when concerning such events. But i already knew that according to the theory of evolution the monkeys alive today were from the same ancestory that we are from.

[amirborna 0]

God = MagicSaying god did it is saying magicGod = ZeusGod = HerculesGod = AllahGod = YawwehJesus = Rip off of 200+ other profets before himStory of Jesus = Explained in AstrologyI choose not to believe in a 2000+ year old book, translated serveral times by man, man. Sorry :\Have fun going to church and getting brainwashed by the same *BLEEP* over and over againHave fun committing sins with the fear of going to hellAnd remember, If you don't believe in Zeus, your going to hell! Remember that son, remember that XDNo but to be serious.....................my God is named Bob. He is the creator of all things and he told me a message last night through his angel named Joe to tell you all that he is the creator and he is boss. if you don't believe in him you are going to hell and so you better believe in him!Don't believe in my God? Aren't afraid of not beleiving in him? Neither am I to yours, Have a great day, see you in hell :(

[Erdemir 0]

Jesus = Rip off of 200+ other profets before him

Story of Jesus = Explained in Astrology

 

I choose not to believe in a 2000+ year old book, translated serveral times by man, man. Sorry :\

There are lots of bibles saying different. If your problem is only this (differences), what about Qur'an. In all over the world, all the Qur'ans have the same words even have the same letters. You can't see any differences between any Qur'ans in the world.

And we muslims believe what Moses says, and what Jesus says, and what Mohammed says. We believe what the 124 000 prophets, sent by Allah, say.

You can't see any differences with any Qur'ans in the world. So you can surely belive what Qur'an says.

 

 

 

 

 

//Edit Reason: replaced the word "with" to "between".

Edited June 7, 2008 by Erdemir (see edit history)

[Striker9 0]

Welcome to our debate strikerTo make this debate easier you have to put it in small chucks so we have a place to stop and reply and proceed. It is too much so I won't touch it until you fix it
Also 1 thing for you to consider
When God said "Let there be light" , who in the world was there to watch him say that? DUHHH?? Ever thought of that?

4 men wrote the bible, not God. That's known. Tell me how those 4 men knew about adam and eve, the first humans?
Oh and science proves evolutionism and how humans came to be. We are not monkeys but have the same common ancenstor.

1. First of all, I don't think it's too hard to reply to my post... or maybe you found what I said makes alot of sense and you just do not know how to reply to it and wouldn't want to admit that it does make sense cuz then you'll be admitting that God exists, the heavenly religions are right, if you don't follow them then you go straight to hell while if you follow them then you'll be rewarded by going to heaven! Anyway, I don't want to assume things, I've tried to simplify my post as much as possible by dividing it to 4 points, so reply to each one of them alone and this will do it. But please, try to be logical in your replies cuz you're drifting off track alot in your replies to the other people in the debate with us.

2. Now concerning the evolution theory, tell me how was it proven to be totally true? the only thing that was proven to be true is micro evolution (which is mutation) and NOT macro mutation. I do not want to get into details of the evolution theory now, but let me ask you, if we - humans - and apes have the same ancestors, shouldn't we have the same chromosome number? Well, that's not the case, thus this theory is completely refuted.

3. Let's end this misunderstanding concerning God knowing everything before it actually happens. We are born through fertilization through God's power (God gave us the ability of giving birth)... so when we are born, God does know how our life is going to be but still gives us chance to change our destiny. We do not have a certain and sure destiny that we cannot change, we always have the CHOICE! It's us who choose how we want to live our lives and what path we're going to choose. Okay maybe God knows that this might happen and that might happen but he did NOT plan for it, it's not like God has planned for "x" to go to heaven and for "y" to go to hell. It's x's choices that made him go to heaven and y's choices that made him go to hell. God might know everything that will happen but he does not intervene! And if you go back to the Qur'an you can understand this fully, for example God says "God doesn't change you unless you decide to change yourselves" which proves that God always gives us the choice, He doesn't choose for us, we do!

4.

Lets say someone shot and killed your mother. God gave power to the man that shot and killed your mother. If he didn't, your mother would still be alive and all that pain and suffering and your family becoming poor and your baby brother becoming motherless wouldn't have happened.

This point is extremely stupid, sorry for saying that but it is! It is totally illogical. If someone killed someone else then it's God's fault? Hell no! Yes, God gave us the power and ability to "shoot" but he didn't tell us to go kill innocent people. So it is not God's fault that that murderer have killed the mother, it's the murderer's fault for CHOOSING to kill the mother. In your arguments you are assuming that we are not responsible of our actions, and just because God knows that this and that would happen then it's God's fault that there's evil in this world. Well no, it's our choices that are evil, and not God because He gave us the power and ability to do stuff and we abused the power and ability He gave to us.
Let me explain this in a simpler way... When Alfred Nobel invented the gun powder, his intention was to use this powder to destroy huge rocks and thus ease people's hard work. But what happened then? People used this powder to make guns and kill people, so in this case is it Nobel's fault that people got killed by the gun powder? I don't think so...

I hope that this time you will reply to my posts. Best regards!
Edited June 7, 2008 by Striker9 (see edit history)

[amirborna 0]

And Reply I shall
---------------

1.
It was hard to reply to, you had a paragraph when your really suppose to have 1 point per paragraph and not a whole bunch in 1.

2.
A lot is proven and I don't like playing teacher. Look it up yourself. But let me get it to you straight. Saying "GOD" did it doesn't mean anything. That's magic.

3.
We have the same common ancestor. We have virtually 99%+ the same DNA and if you know anything about Biology, we don't have to have the same number of chromosomes to be a common ancestor. It's the fear of learning the truth as a Christian or whatever religion you are that is holding you back on learning the truth.

3. No we are not born through the fertilization of God's power. God has nothing to do with this. Male and Female mate, sperm and egg join, and a zygote is formed. Plain and simple. God is not in this at all. Now 2000+ years ago when you didn't know all of this, YES, God did it! It's God! I'm brilliant, I'm smart, I KNOW THAT GOD DID IT!!!

No we don't have a destiney that we can't change. If you believe in God your destiney is set
No matter how you word it, how you say it, how you define it, no matter how many times you say free will or we have control, You Cannot stop God from knowing past present and future. Whatever you do, will do, have done, God knows. PERIOD. It's over there is no more discussion. You can't say GOD DOESN'T KNOW

It's us who choose how we want to live, what we do, and all that just like you say. YES, BUT, What makes God from not knowing what your going to do? You can't pick and choose. Either God is imperfect and doesn't know, or God is perfect and knows everything. You decide

God did not plan for you or me to go to heaven or hell. It's X choices right? MAYBE, BUT, when God created you, GOD KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO BURN IN HELL IN THE FIRST PLACE. Maybe the choice is upon you, maybe god created you and let you do what you wanted to do, but when God says, "HMM LETS CREATE LITTLE JOHN OVER HERE" he already on the back of his Godly mind knows what you will do all throughout your life, and that you will go to hell or heaven. So there is really no free will here because God is creating you knowing you will go to hell. Either way you say it in any connotation or any way you can think of, that is how it's going to remain. period

He does not intervene? Then why do you pray to God? Why do you ask him for stuff? Why do Christians ask God for forgiveness? Why do you pray for change, Why do you pray for Poor people to not be poor, starvers to be fed? It's all *BLEEP* if God doesn't intervene. There again you're wrong

4.
Let me tell you something about God buddy. God is a murderer, a far more murderous "matter if you want to call that, which technically no" than any likes of humans you have ever seen.

You think Hitler was bad? He himself didn't kill all the people, his servants did, but let me tell you who's worse
GOD IS WORSE MY FRIEND

 

SAB, Brick Testament Number Killed Cumulative Total Lot's wife for looking back Gen.19:26, BT 1 1 Er who was "wicked in the sight of the Lord" Gen.38:7, 1 Chr.2:3, BT 1 2 Onan for spilling his seed Gen.38:10, BT 1 3 Pharaoh and 600 chariot captains (plus his entire army) Ex.14:8-26 601+ 604+ For dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf Ex.32:27-28, 35, BT 3000 3604+ Aaron's sons for offering strange fire before the Lord Lev.10:1-3, Num.3:4, 26:61, BT 2 3606+ A blasphemer Lev.24:10-23, BT 1 3607+ A man who picked up sticks on the SabbathNum.15:32-36, BT 1 3608+ Korah, Dathan, and Abiram (and their families) Num.16:27, BT 12+ 3620+ Burned to death for offering incense Num.16:35, 26:10, BT 250 3870+ For complaining Num.16:49, BT 14,700 18,570+ For "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab" Num.25:9, BT 24,000 42,570+ Midianite massacre (32,000 virgins were kept alive) Num.31:1-35, BT 90,000+ 132,570+ God tells Joshua to stoned to death Achan (and his family) for taking the accursed thing. Joshua 7:10-12, 24-26, BT 5+ 132,575+ God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone). Joshua 8:1-25, BT 12,000 144,575+ Joshua kills 5 kings and hangs their dead bodies on trees Joshua 10:24-26, BT 5 144,580+ God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites Judges 1:4, BT 10,000 154,580+ Ehud delivers a message from God: a knife into the king's belly Jg.3:15-22, BT 1 154,581+ God delivered Moabites Jg.3:28-29, BT 10,000 164,581+ God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other. Jg.7:2-22, 8:10, BT 120,000 284,581+ The Spirit of the Lord comes on Samson Jg.14:19, BT 30 284,611+ The Spirit of the Lord comes mightily on Samson Jg.15:14-15, BT 1000 285,611+ Samson's God-assisted act of terrorism Jg.16:27-30, BT 3000 288,611+ "The Lord smote Benjamin" Jg.20:35-37, BT 25,100 313,711+ More Benjamites Jg.20:44-46 25,000 338,711+ For looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam.6:19 50,070 388,781+ God delivered Philistines 1 Sam.14:12 20 388,801+ Samuel (at God's command) hacks Agag to death 1 Sam.15:32-33 1 388,802+ "The Lord smote Nabal." 1 Sam.25:38 1 388,803+ Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling 2 Sam.6:6-7, 1 Chr.13:9-10 1 388,804+ David and Bathsheba's baby boy 2 Sam.12:14-18 1 388,805+ Seven sons of Saul hung up before the Lord 2 Sam.21:6-9 7 388,812+ From plague as punishment for David's census (men only; probably 200,000 if including women and children) 2 Sam.24:13, 1 Chr.21:7 70,000+ 458,812+ A prophet for believing another prophet's lie 1 Kg.13:1-24 1 458,813+ Religious leaders killed in prayer contest 1 Kg.18:22-40 450 459,263+ God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites' hands 1 Kg.20:28-29 100,000 559,263+ God makes a wall fall on Syrian soldiers 1 Kg.20:30 27,000 586,263+ God sent a lion to eat a man for not killing a prophet 1 Kg.20:35-36 1 586,264+ Ahaziah is killed for talking to the wrong god. 2 Kg.1:2-4, 17, 2 Chr.22:7-9 1 586,265+ Burned to death by God 2 Kg.1:9-12 102 586,367+ God sends two bears to kill children for making fun of Elisha's bald head 2 Kg.2:23-24 42 586,409+ Trampled to death for disbelieving Elijah 2 Kg.7:17-20 1 586,410+ Jezebel 2 Kg.9:33-37 1 586,411+ God sent lions to kill "some" foreigners 2 Kg.17:25-26 3+ 586,414+ Sleeping Assyrian soldiers 2 Kg.19:35, 2 Chr.32:21, Is.37:36 185,000 771,414+ Saul 1 Chr.10:14 1 771,415+ God delivers Israel into the hands of Judah 2 Chr.13:15-17 500,000 1,271,415+ Jeroboam 2 Chr.13:20 1 1,271,416+ "The Lord smote the Ethiopians." 2 Chr.14:9-14 1,000,000 2,271,416+ God kills Jehoram by making his bowels fall out 2 Chr.21:14-19 1 2,271,417+ Judean soldiers 2 Chr.28:6 120,000 2,391,417+ Ezekiel's wife Ezek.24:15-18 1 2,391,418+ Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:1-10 2 2,391,420+ Herod Acts 12:23, BT 1 2,391,421+

 

 

Wow, will you take a look at that! Who's more evil now, satan, or your God?

And your Nobel theory is pathetic. His intentions were this, but that happened. And God knew what THAT would do to the world in the years to come. Millions of people dying, Billions of family members distressed.

On Point : Your God isn't perfect, your God isn't all loving, your God is evil.

Every little thing I say, that is wrong about God, you have an explanation. A Sane unbrainwashed person would never do that, but sit down and say "HEY, SOMETHING IS REALLY WRONG HERE"
But no, keep going to church, get brainwashed, lose any common sense you have, and keep believing more

I'm out, nice debating with you man. This thing keeps repeating.

Oh and if you are going to reply to this, you better reply on this to:

Do you believe in Zeus? Do you believe in my God "Unicorn"? Why? Why not? I think he is real
You can't see my God, you can't hear my God, you can't touch my God, and better yet, you don't care or much believe in my God

But listen to this. If you don't believe in my God your going to hell! I did not make these Gods up, they are real.

Still don't care / believe in them? Neither do I. Your God is just like my God. Only thing that is keeping your faith in yours is your fear of going to hell, and that is why religion is staying around. Because of the fear installed into our minds.

Notice from truefusion:

Quote anything that has already been written else where.

[truefusion 3]

[1]I choose not to believe in a 2000+ year old book, translated serveral times by man, man. Sorry :\[2]Have fun going to church and getting brainwashed by the same *BLEEP* over and over again

[3]And remember, If you don't believe in Zeus, your going to hell! Remember that son, remember that XD
[4]No but to be serious...my God is named Bob. He is the creator of all things and he told me a message last night through his angel named Joe to tell you all that he is the creator and he is boss. if you don't believe in him you are going to hell and so you better believe in him!

[1]Here's the same logic used: I refuse to believe in Science books, updated several times by man.
[2]Here's the same logic: Have fun getting brainwashed by Youtube videos.
[3]M'ks. Can i quote you on that, too, anytime in the future?
[4]You can believe in anyone or thing, just be reasonable in your choosing.

By the way, your post appears to be full of emotions. I don't know any one that curses for the fun of it.

[1] A lot is proven and I don't like playing teacher. Look it up yourself. But let me get it to you straight. Saying "GOD" did it doesn't mean anything. That's magic.
[2] We have the same common ancestor. We have virtually 99%+ the same DNA and if you know anything about Biology, we don't have to have the same number of chromosomes to be a common ancestor.

[3] No we are not born through the fertilization of God's power. God has nothing to do with this. Male and Female mate, sperm and egg join, and a zygote is formed. Plain and simple. God is not in this at all. Now 2000+ years ago when you didn't know all of this, YES, God did it! It's God!

[4:1] No we don't have a destiney that we can't change. If you believe in God your destiney is set.

[4:2] It's us who choose how we want to live, what we do, and all that just like you say. YES, BUT, What makes God from not knowing what your going to do? [4:3] You can't pick and choose. Either God is imperfect and doesn't know, or God is perfect and knows everything. You decide

[4:4] God did not plan for you or me to go to heaven or hell. It's X choices right? MAYBE, BUT, when God created you, GOD KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO BURN IN HELL IN THE FIRST PLACE. Maybe the choice is upon you, maybe god created you and let you do what you wanted to do, but when God says, "HMM LETS CREATE LITTLE JOHN OVER HERE" he already on the back of his Godly mind knows what you will do all throughout your life, and that you will go to hell or heaven. So there is really no free will here because God is creating you knowing you will go to hell. Either way you say it in any connotation or any way you can think of, that is how it's going to remain. period

He does not intervene? [5:1]Then why do you pray to God? [5:2]Why do you ask him for stuff? [5:3]Why do Christians ask God for forgiveness? [5:4]Why do you pray for change, Why do you pray for Poor people to not be poor, starvers to be fed?

[6] God is a murderer. You think Hitler was bad? He himself didn't kill all the people, his servants did, but let me tell you who's worse
GOD IS WORSE MY FRIEND
Wow, will you take a look at that! Who's more evil now, satan, or your God?

On Point : Your God isn't perfect, your God isn't all loving, your God is evil.

[7:1]Every little thing I say, that is wrong about God, you have an explanation. [7:2]A Sane unbrainwashed person would never do that, but sit down and say "HEY, SOMETHING IS REALLY WRONG HERE"

[1]Even if you played teacher, you wouldn't be able to prove it with only words; although, seeing isn't necessarily believing. Also, most, if not all, of the things you learn in school requires faith and the acceptance of predefiined variables. Example for the former: Have you ever seen Christopher Columbus? Example for the latter: What if "3" had the value of what we have accepted to be "2" and what if "2" had the value of what we have accepted to be "3"?

[2]Seems like you decided to play teacher. Regardless, they can have all the similarities they want, that doesn't mean one came from the other.

[3]In another post, i heard you were once a Muslim. I would have expected for you to know that the Qur'an actually mentions the fertilization process. Therefore, it cannot be said that people back then didn't know what they're talking about. Don't believe me? Here are some verses: 23:14; 40:67. Search for "embryo" for more verses. Also, the Bible in the Book of Ecclesiastes talks about God placing a spirit in the child during development.

[4:1]Not necessarily true. Even with all the faith in the world in God, that doesn't mean God exists. And not believing in Him doesn't mean there is no set destiny, for even with all the faith in the world in no God doesn't mean that God doesn't exist.

[4:2]Him acting upon His knowledge is no different than a human acting upon their knowledge. Indeed, if i knew someone was going to commit an act and they do indeed commit the act i knew they were going to commit, that means they have no freewill, for i knew about it beforehand.

[4:3]He can be perfect and not be omniscient at the same time.

[4:4]This part is somewhat self contradicting, as it starts off assuming that everyone that is born will go to hell, then it goes on to include heaven. But view what i said to 4:2, again.

[5:1]Could be for many reasons. One reason is to increase in faith.
[5:2]Because He is known as Provider.
[5:3]Because He's the only one that can truly forgive people.
[5:4]Because we forget what has been promised by Him?

[6]Interesting that you quote that. I have been working on refuting them all, since it was given to me by another atheist. I've read them all too: that thing is somewhat unjust. Somehow it managed to pop out with, i think, 70,000 kills out of nowhere and it directs killings caused by humans to God. Also, it assumes God was unjust. It chooses to forget a few things too, but i'll just leave it for my little project.

On another note, it's pointless giving verses from the Bible to a Muslim—the Bible doesn't equal the Qur'an, nor vice versa.

[7:1]At least you have taken the time to say that you were wrong about it.
[7:2]Unbrainwashed, eh? That would exclude everyone.

[jjaenagle 0]

thats pretty good...

try this

LINK

and for those people that just take these and say blah, your really not gonna understand anything with that closed mindset.... and i used to be like that.

Edited June 8, 2008 by jjaenagle (see edit history)

[amirborna 0]

I mean hey if you have a closed mindset, theres nothing to convince youAll us atheists there is no point to trying. They have to discover themselves how BS their religion is.Until then, party on

[hitmanblood 0]

OK few things I would like to point out in this very flaming discussion. Yes guys you are fighting all around and rare are those that put some real facts and logic behind their posts. So I have decided to put osmething myself. I've checked the video well yep I think that guy is trying to make money from this or maybe not I haven't honestly checked backgrounds but this was the first opinion that got into my mind. OK this is for reference to the video itself. It seems like advertisement but maybe it is not.

 

OK and the other thing is the wrong name of the topic you well most of you are talking about atheism and religions in general reffering to god. Topic should be called somewhat connected to the god. Since every religion has some sort of godd or gods. Even atheism (I will explain later on). And not only reffering to the two religions in place.

 

So what is it all about, don't you think that in such large universe as it is our own. Doesn't exists any other living being. Come on guys. Do you think that we are the only living thing. We have found now thousands of planets thaat mights support life in our own fashion. Imagine that there are so many more of such planets that might support life in similar fashion or very different. Not every lifeforms must be based on the oxygen. We have now solid knowledge about and of bacterial forms that are based on the carbon don't you and wouldn't you imagine that there are similar higher life forms. So what is my point of this discussion. First of all if God exists then it is some sort of entity. And it might be living creature it might be pure energy which is the closest you can get to biblical explanation of god and islam since it is sort of derivative from biblical knowledge group has stated the same. So energy or thought it is the same well almost the same. Though there are easter religions that base god on the living or life matter it is simple to connect that this feature is in fact the same. S

 

Since we all know from the basic physics that matter is just another form of energy. And so on they are connected to the continues circle. One can freely transfer in another and so on. The point here is to find the common string among almost all world religions. Since if you would check out after man firstly understood basic natural concepts llike storms lightnings sunn rising and so on. We have started developing religions that are in fact almost based on teh same thing though over time they have kept developing in their own ways. But nonetheless the point stays that all world religions might have common origin. And needless is to say that the simple timeline will show us that they don't start in the same era or same historical period we and monkeys have common origin though both have been seeded in different periods.

 

If you would take comparisson with languages it is simple to check let's say english in UK and english in united states or africa. Not to mention australia. Religions develop if they are isolated they will probably develop in something else. Christianity being the biggest religion in the world is in fact and has many different forms. And I assume that if we would talk to teh christian in the time of roman empire he wouldn't recognize this religion as Christianity. So you see things change. And religious dogmas change. the point is that idea of god stays troughout history of mankind.

 

Coming now to the other thing I wanted to mention. And that is Atheism atheists think that they do not believe in anything that they are free of such prejudice but the thing is that every and each person believes in something. Whether it is money or lucky charm or some other person. Belief is very similar to trust Essentially both come from same idea. However in todays world they are very different concepts. But nonetheless every person beliefs in something. So Amir go and ask yourself in what do you believe.

 

Since I am somehow differentiated from the church and its basic dogmas I assume that I see god in my own way. I have thought a lot about it and made decision what god is for me. And so should each and every person do. Not to search god in some things or scrolls that are written by others but seatrch it in itself and find out what god is for you. Then and only then you will be certain that it in fact exists and that your believef is true.

 

I am not saying that you create false idol for yourself but to search for answers that inspire and tire you. This is only way to come to peace with one self.

 

PLease feel free to point out any things that I might get wrong and to put your own retrospective and reply to this post. You may contact me even on PM if you would like.

 

Best Regards everyone.

And god speed

[amirborna 0]

See that's just the thing. Religion is so demagraphic.

 

One site is islam, one side is christianity, one side is catholicism, one side is buddhism

 

I'll show you how it works

 

When your born, your parents teach you (Brainwash, but that is too harsh) to believe in the religion. They don't expose you to other religions, so who'se to say whos wrong? Their parents told them about the religion and so did their parents.

 

Let's say I was born in Iran which I am. My parents tought me about Islam, I didn't even know of Christianity till I came to America. Then all of a sudden "If you don't believe in Jesus your going to hell." Tell yourself, what If I was born in a tribe in northern africa that practices Islam. Now tell me this

 

What would happen if in your tribe, all your life you were tought islam, but as christians say "If you don't believe in Jesus your going to hell" What then? Your going to hell? Why? Because you weren't exposed to it? That's not your fault, you had no control over it.

 

God would never do that. To me God is a story just like Zeus and all those gods like him. To you, Zeus is a cartoon character that people made a movie out of. But no, peopel ACTUALLY believed in Zeus and other gods like him such as Hera and heracules, but now to you it's just a joke.

 

Same thing to me, an atheist. To me your God is a joke, it's a movie, and not real.

Most christians/muslims / whatever don't understand why we think like this

heres your answer:

 

Tell yourself how you feel about the god Zeus. Tell yourself why you feel about it. THAT IS THE EXACT same reason I feel about your God

[smsm89 0]

If God is perfect and knows past present and future, he has no emotions. He is a perfect being. He wouldn't get mad at Eve for eating the apple when he knew she would do it anyway, which is why I use the oven analogy of burning my hand on purpose when I knew it was Hot. I created the oven (Theoritically as I bought it) and God created Eve. God put the tree there and I turned the Heat up. Eve ate the tree as my Fingers got burned. I knew my fingers would get burned just as God knew Eve would eat the apple.

First of all, it's so sad if you mean that you have left Islam by saying "I was once a muslim" ...well replaying at your quote Adams and the tree story was a test for Adam but It's the human nature to make mistakes so the first human mistake was from Adam and of course god knew that Adams would make mistakes because if god made humans wouldn't mistake then there is no idea of creating them cuz he already have angels that don't mistake but here is a thing you probably forgetting that when god "Allah" created Adam he taught him every thing... and he gave him a great knowledge that even angels doesn't have that much of it... but when evil saw what happened he got jealous and didn't obey the god order (and he forgot it's his god order) - by the way the evil was a good evil that obeyed god's rules and orders that is why the angles left him to the sky from earth because earth was nearly destroyed by the devils behaviors so god "Allah" send the angles to kill them all and get that good evil... but even evil do mistakes and he did a big mistake by refusing the god order ... god "Allah" returned him to earth and told him to wait until the end of the world and god promised evil to get his punishment so evil promised to let humans to do mistakes (and he knew that humans have the ability to do mistakes that's why he didn't chose angles)-....after this short historic background.....my point is god created that tree and made life for testing humans.... life is a big test...think it that way why does god bother himself and created humans if god knew that humans would not obey his orders and rule...ofcourse he knew there would be humans who will not obey his orders and also there will be humans that will obey his orders so that is why god created heaven and hill and gaved them the right to chose the right way and the wrong way (it something beyond humans imagination that every thing is written in the same time humans can chose the right way and the wrong way) Edited June 10, 2008 by smsm89 (see edit history)

[jopak134 0]

brainwash? sorry but what you are saying is b***s**t. maybe it occurs in your area but not from where i am. my parents didn't force me into any religion.it's a pity that one little clip persuade you but that's your choice.and that i was also given a choice to believe anything i want.don't tell people they are dumb/stupid whatever for believing on something that you don't. Or your just another one of those people who push their beliefs that your so complaining about

[kasm 0]

I was once a muslim but I started to use my brain. I started to think critically.

Then I watched this guy's video on youtube

 

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

 

He is amazing....

- I don't see that "he is amazing. All contradiction.

 

- It was waist time to watch that rubish in the first video so I don't watch the second one.

 

- I am sorry to open it.

 

- I see how many times you answered and how much credit you ge in 3 days. Congratulation

[smsm89 0]

Let's say I was born in Iran which I am. My parents tought me about Islam, I didn't even know of Christianity till I came to America. Then all of a sudden "If you don't believe in Jesus your going to hell." Tell yourself, what If I was born in a tribe in northern africa that practices Islam. Now tell me this
What would happen if in your tribe, all your life you were tought islam, but as christians say "If you don't believe in Jesus your going to hell" What then? Your going to hell? Why? Because you weren't exposed to it? That's not your fault, you had no control over it.

let me tell you this .... I am a Muslim and I have raised in good Islamic community or people ... I have learned about Islam relation since I was a kid... here is the thing that you don't know even you was Muslim or pretending to be ... we believe in Jesus and for us ofcousres if you don't belive in messenges (even if one messenger) then you are not a muslim but the point that we disagree with Christians that they believe he is the son of the god and we believe that he is the messenger of the god despite the disagreement. We (Muslim, Christians and Jews) believe in one common being which is god "Allah", besides we leave this to god "Allah" ... God will finally judge people if they were right or wrong.... if you are telling me that your parents didn't religiously educate you well before you come to America I think it's their problem.... as in Islam the parents are responsible about their children (I don't know what is the situation in Christianity).

[hitmanblood 0]

INteresting thing here is that it seems many people are claiming that they are muslims however I know of their religion much more then themselves and especially of Amir.

But nonetheless first to answer to the smsm89. Yes you are right in Islam and Koran many things are referring to the Jesus though they have very similar translated name for him I cannot remember it now. The point is that disgrace to Christianity doesn't come from belief that Jesus was son of god. But moreover from the fact that Islam claims that Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in one true God. However, Islam also claims that they are believing in one true religion because of the story below.

Well, it all goes something like this. God firstly gave Jews their holy book Torah, however over time Jews lost it and then became in disgrace of God. Then god decided to give humans holy book once more and he gave them Bible and then Christians lost Bible also over time and became in disgrace of God. Then God decided to repeat this and gave holy book Koran to the Muslims and they saved it and kept it and Muslims indeed have their holy book up to this date. The very first issue from Mohamed himself. The point is that this is main reason why Muslims claim that they are one and true religion.

And this might be good time to say that even in Islam there are sects and two most widely known are separated on the old Arabic laws.

But As I said this discussion is in fact very indifferent because some people are talking about God and other are talking about religion. The point is that the very discussion about God may be done without interference of religion.

And not to answer Amir:

One site is islam, one side is christianity, one side is catholicism, one side is buddhism

This was the most notable sentence in you answer to my post and I've figured out that you in fact do not understand how religions are divided. You see Catholicism is only one sect in Christianity.

An obvious reading for you would be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East-West_Schism

Familiarize yourself before you write something like that.

And this thing that you mentioned about if you do not believe in Jesus you will go to hell is common deception of Christianity since this is never been stated by Churches and it is not written in Bible in fact. There is section in Bible stating that there is place for nonbelievers in heaven however there is no place for worshipers of false idols regarding mostly to pagan Gods and Theology.

And Amir if you haven't noticed I was speaking of God as entity one and probably unique if you have read my post you would see that and not write some nonessential things in stead.