Science Or Spirituality

[longtimeago 0]

All of them in today world know Darwins theory that man was evolved from Monkey.And all of them know that Lord God Almighty is the only gateway to Heaven, and God Created the world and created Adam and Eve .Now which one do u believe ? Darwin theory or God ?The Bible says,Its better to put trust in God than to put Confidence in man.

[t3jem 0]

I believe that God created everything; however, Genesis could be symbolic and does not tell every detail of how God created everything so I couldn't tell exactly how we were made, but I know that we could not be here if God hadn't created us.

[OpaQue 15]

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed - proved.Any part of you when cut off from your body (which is said "dead") is NON-LIVING.So you are basically made up of ATOMS or MOLECULES which are defined as NON-LIVING Matter (which is nothing but energy : e=mc2)Then where did the LIFE come from?And if an ENTITY called LIFE exists and IT makes non-living things move, grow and reproduce.. Why are we even defining criteria for life ? (eg. we say, life needs air for breathing..)Let science define LIFE first. :-)

[camarorz28 0]

I would say that God created life, i would say it just on what you belive and how strong that believe is, i used to think that we did come from a monkey! LOL kinda crazy you would say. I we were to come from the monkey or an evolution of the Monkey, THEN why is there still monkeys?? Should'nt all the monkey have evolved into humans?? WHY IS THERE MONKEYS? Now i know that only God has the answer and it is up to him weather he wants us to know about it or not! But because he dosen't state it in the Bible then that means that i don't need to know about it. There is certain things we cannot explain why they happen right? well does certain things are for God to keep. And science for man is destruction. Just like the tower of babel, when all the people started making a tower and wanted to get to heaven, God saw that all mankind was united and that they thought they did'nt need God to create that tower that it was their own strenght, and God decided to give different people different languages so they would not understand each other and stop about doing that tower. Man kind is just too curious and its our nature, but there is some things we cannot handle and God may hide it from us. He is all Mighty

[verdant 0]

oh! i finaly found a place to share my theory on this issue!!

okay okay here it goes, it's kind of out of left field so jut be open minded and ready!

back when i was young i was a very devout jehovahs witness. and with no pun intended, i devoted lots of time to studying. so one day, using one of their huge 'reference bibles' i notice something in a footnote about a greek word used in the term 'holy spirit'. the word was 'spiritos' which ment 'breath'. i though it was just wierd at first, but then i made a connection with something from a book i had read called 'shaolin white crane' the book had a huge section discussing 'Qi' - the chinese word for 'a mysterious energy that makes up the universe and eveything in it' which included us as human beings. the intresting part was the fact that this book advocated that through various excersises done consistantly for years one could build up a mastery of 'Qi'. honestly my paraphrasing of this is very.... i dont know mystical sounding? but the book put it in very scientific terms. additionaly they were only really looking at what was provable by science... wierd i thought because i had always been taught in church that kung fu and many things in chinese culture were forms of devil worshiping. it was this sort of one sided-ness that led me to leave the religion and try to see the world with my own eyes.

off topic, lol, lets see if i can tie all this back into my theory. the funny thing about qi/chi/ki (in japanese) was that it also had a simular meaning as holy spirit. it didnt have a notion of holiness or divinity. but it did mean a form of energy that was manipulatable by a form of consiousness be it us as humans or god.

then it hit me with all the talk about big bangs, and evolution. it really didnt seem to odd to think that a entity with limitless 'energy' or 'spirit' could do something like an atom bomb in reverse. i looked at an atom bomb and really thought about that... all that destruction from one peice of matter?

thats my theory on creation, and its not even all of creation, but simply put it seems tottaly posible that just like daimonds raw energy could be condensed into matter and thus be used to create our physical world.

im not saying god exists... im just saying its possible, just like anything else.

now take a look at this. and have your mind blown!

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

quantum physics is starting to show that thoughts, on a quantum level can effect matter. even random number generators see below!!

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

[FLaKes 0]

Cool, I cant wait to see those videos at home... Here at work they blocked youtube. I think there is a movie in which they talk about what you said about quantum physics, I dont know the name but I will look for it.

[de4thpr00f 0]

I would like to say that i don't want to create a discussion, but i'll do my best to start it =PFor the boy/guy/man who doesn't believe that we evoluted from monkeys (primates to be more precise), how do you explain our "tail"? (that thing called coxix)Coxix is the proof of our evolution.2nd, how do you explain our similar acts? protecting the child, the male is who hunts, the female take care of the nest.3rd, how do you explain our similar brain?4th, 5 fingers on each hand? what other species has it?

[blade10327 0]

to be honest i am not sure what to believe. because god is said to have only created earth. if so who made things in space? so i try not to think about it nor believe in anything or anyone so i dont hurt my head thinking about it.

[Dark_Viking 0]

I'm a scientist and subscribe to the theory of evolution as outlined by Darwin. I also have a degree in archaeology and therefore would find it really quite difficult to believe in the biblical depiction of Man's origin. While I can't describe myself as 100% aspiritual, I equally couldn't describe myself as religious in any way. Ultimately, if someone wishes to examine both concepts, in my opinion they should do so with an open mind and as fully as they can before dismissing one or the other.

[salamangkero 0]

LOL kinda crazy you would say. I we were to come from the monkey or an evolution of the Monkey, THEN why is there still monkeys?? Shouldn't all the monkey have evolved into humans?

I am seriously peeved by this attack on Darwinism. Lemme give a brief overview.

Natural selection, the theorized driving force behind evolution, works on the premises that those who equipped with the capabilities that enhance their chances of survival tend to survive longer to breed more of their kind. Simply put, in a forest, giraffes with longer necks can reach higher branches instead of competing with other shorter-necked giraffes for the lower ones. This increased its chances for survival and, statistically speaking, enabled it to breed more like it, that is longer-necked giraffes. IMHO, it all boils down to genetics. Those with the genes that determine better survival, like webbed feet, fins, a tail or what not, usually survive longer to give birth to progeny with similar genes.

Another thing, evolution is (usually) a long, drawn-out process so don't expect to pull a human child out of a monkey's vagina. Also, it is not voluntary. Say, I am an okapi and I'm competing with the rest of the herd for all the bushes and the low branches. I couldn't very well just say, "Oh, I wish I could get at the higher branches!" and wake up the next day as a giraffe. It takes generations for there to be any pronounced difference.

As such, your arguments are clearly non-sequitur. It assumes that the environment is identical elsewhere. There is a general notion that humanity started from Africa. What you are expecting is that all monkeys, from the Asian islands to the Americas, will evolve the same way as the African apes did when, clearly, the conditions for evolution is not the same globally. In other words, it is perfectly possible for monkeys and humans to exist at the same time. In Africa, there was a need for a tribe of monkeys to evolve to humans; clearly, there are other places where there was no need to evolve.

For the boy/guy/man who doesn't believe that we evoluted from monkeys (primates to be more precise), how do you explain our "tail"? (that thing called coxix) Coxix is the proof of our evolution.

I'd like to point out that this is inductive reasoning and what you are presenting is not actually proof but only facts that further support the theory of evolution. It is, as any sane scientist knows, audacious to presume that a certain evidence is the proof of something as widely debated as Darwinism.

I'm a scientist and subscribe to the theory of evolution as outlined by Darwin. I also have a degree in archaeology and therefore would find it really quite difficult to believe in the biblical depiction of Man's origin. While I can't describe myself as 100% aspiritual, I equally couldn't describe myself as religious in any way. Ultimately, if someone wishes to examine both concepts, in my opinion they should do so with an open mind and as fully as they can before dismissing one or the other.

True, true. One really shouldn't be quick to dismiss a possibility simply because of a belief or a mountain of inconclusive evidences

[lemonwonder 0]

[NOTE: Sometimes in my statements about science or religion, I can get a bit athiest, if you may be offended don't read, but ill try my hardest not to be athiest]

First of all, Christianity, really isn't a religion, It's a love relationship with the God who created the world and His son who came to redeem our sins. We all have a guilty conscience. We all have done something wrong, even me. All we have to do is accept his gift of eternal salvation and forgiveness. Because of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross for our sins, we are all forgiven.

First of all: how did god create the world? Who created god? How does he exist although he is never found? How can he be "watching over all of us" when the world has billions of people and he is 1 thing. Everybody has done bad things. Because of a person killing themselves, we are forgiven.. who is forgiving us? What are they going to do? If we go to hell or heaven, how come nobody, not even physics can view this place.

It is basically impossible for some "simple life form" to come into being from smaller random chemicals. Where did those chemicals come from in the first place. Where did the concept of time and space come in to being? Can Evolution answer that? Someone had to put all those complicated structures together into specific amino acids, proteins, cells, enzymes and systems.

It is unexplainable at the moment how the chemicals, and space were formed to create a big bang. Radiation, planet travelling and more proves of the big bang. The spinning formation of these gases compresses them into stars, these stars can grow to be planets. Absolutely everything is made up of elements, your body structure could be like this (on larger scale though) : co5H3b3............... When these mix together, this is when microorganisms are formed. These evolve into larger creatures over thousands of billions of years. I do not need to explain the scientific details of this, but wikipedia has good, moderated information!

For evolution to happen, even if you got parts for 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 different watches and shook it in a gigantic box, the watches would have a better chance of forming together into 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 than for evolution to form into the world with all its complex systems. You would need a lot more faith to believe in evolution than in God.

Evolution is actually EXTREMELY simple, except it takes such a long time, that the number of watches above, is probably about a tenth of a billionth of what evolution to a trilobite took. How did god become so complex and amazing, you say we are complex... can we build a world? God didnt evolve so he was just magically amazing?
To explain god.. how was he here before anything? He must of been here after space and time? How did such a smart thing be made without billions of years of evolution and learning.

Yes, we are extremely complex, but its all scientifically explainable. For god to be able to watch every single person, listen to their prayers (about 1 every 2 seconds starts) is not! And how god came about... its not explainable without using the fact that he was always there or "something" Well, if you use an arguement "who put all the chemicals and gases and elements into the universe," the same answer could be given "they were always there!"

People who join religions join it when they are scared, or sucked in. For example, my grandfather used to not be into it, but he hert his back and ran to church. Not because he believed, because he thought that there may be something in it.

4160 Days Are Spent At Church... Why?

[dre 0]

Yes, we are extremely complex, but its all scientifically explainable.

Wow. Seriously? Looks like you haven't kept up with the last couple thousand years of science.

People who join religions join it when they are scared, or sucked in. For example, my grandfather used to not be into it, but he hert his back and ran to church. Not because he believed, because he thought that there may be something in it.

Wow, what else are you gonna cook up next? Ooh I know, you'll buy yourself a car, and then if it breaks, you'll rant to everybody about how much that car sucks and that every model of that car ever made should be recycled, because you're all knowing like that.

[lemonwonder 0]

Ok I get your points there. Its my opinion and I put a warning there for people who may be offended. There are lots of people who will agree with me, and many that will disagree.

[kasm 0]

For the boy/guy/man who doesn't believe that we evoluted from monkeys (primates to be more precise), how do you explain our "tail"? (that thing called coxix)

Coxix is the proof of our evolution.

2nd, how do you explain our similar acts? protecting the child, the male is who hunts, the female take care of the nest.

3rd, how do you explain our similar brain?

4th, 5 fingers on each hand? what other species has it?

1.I am a Scientist (B.Sc , M.Sc & Ph.D) in Science and with Master in Systems Engineering and many others disciplines(Operations Research, Economics, Finance, Accounting, Project Managements,..) But I am believe in God as many other Scientist do now and in past. So science and spirituality can go together. If there are seem some contradictions then we wait and try to solve them. It is important to read my posting in the forum :

I am Scientists but I believe in God

 

2. It is very important to be quite clear about using the terminology : Science, Theory and Evolutions.

 

3. For definition of Science and Scientific Theory read my postings : : What Is Science? And What Is The Scientific Method? And What Is Scientific Hypothesis And Scientific Theory?

 

4. There are 6 types of Evolutions : Cosmic Evolution -Chemical Evolution- stellar, Organic , Macro Evolution and Micro Evolution . See their defination in the quotations down taken from a previous post to the forum]. But I will concerate on this posting on Macro and micro Evolution which related to Darwinism. Macro Evolution (Large-scale, or major changes from one kind of life form to another while Micro Evolution (small-scale, or minor changes and adaptations within a population of life forms i.e. the variation within the kinds. Micor Evolution is a science since we can observe. But Macro Evolution and all the other types of evolutions can't observe or approve so they are Historical Science. see my post at: For details of the 6 types, see the last quotion from a previous post.

 

5. All types of Evolutions except micro evolution are not Science or Scientific Theory. See my post

Evolution is not Science nor Scientific Theory

 

6. Believing in God is not Science but faith. Exactly the big bang theory, Darwinism or Evolution [except Micro-Evolution]. Who believe in God doesn't need exact proof. That why it called belief or faith. But any belief has bases. Who believe in star evolution believe that "The sky could have been created from some kind of star exploding or something. " . They believe in that belief without any proof. The same who believe in big bang haven't exact proof but it is their belief.

 

7. In replying to dark_viking-m For the boy/guy/man who doesn't believe that we evoluted from monkeys (primates to be more precise), how do you explain our "tail"? (that thing called coxix) Coxix is the proof of our evolution. 2nd, how do you explain our similar acts? protecting the child, the male is who hunts, the female take care of the nest. 3rd, how do you explain our similar brain? 4th, 5 fingers on each hand? what other species has it? That not mean is that is evolved of that. If you want explanation of many similarities is the designer is the same or learned from the same source. If you find two computers have some similarity: hard drive, chips, cd, cpu etc but they can from different types PC or apple or mac they are not involved from the same. How you explain that the eye of man [the top category ] is less complicated than eye of another creature. How you explain that human child can't live without support for many years to eat or to learn to walk or talk while the chick is very lower in the ladder can hatch by itself then move and eat alone. There are many but enough this time.

 

8. I will quote next from one of previous posting to show why Scientists are believe in God. They do because they logically think deeply about phenomena and events as examples only , I will list some:

 

1- Until now we couldn't create a tiny cell from scratch.

 

2- Until now and after about 50 years in space , we didn't visit in the universe except Earth's Sputnik, the moon. There are 7 and now 9 planets in our Sun System. Every star is similar to the Sun has its planets, and every planet has its moon or moons. Moreover group of star constitute Galaxy and Galaxies constitute,... etc etc....

 

3- Why our planet the earth has all facilities to survive, the atmosphere protect it, the oxygen and Carbon balances, the gravity, The Sun and the moon to give it light and warm and stability, etc etc

 

4- Our body systems why they are the way they are. The miracles of Heart, the miracles of the blood, the respiratory system, Nerve system, the defense imune system, the hormones, our eyes, ears, kidneys, livers, stomach, tongue ...and our reproduction system. How the pregnancy happen and how the body works when pregnancy happen. How the mother start to produce milk before giving birth etc etc.. Why these months in womb.etc etc..

 

5- Why we die if we in water without support while the fish and other water creation die if they left the water.

 

6- the cycle of reproductions in plants or some animal creations as the butterflies,...

 

7- there is another pressure in plant than animal.

 

8- Ants and Bees kingdom.

 

9- The system and characteristic of Camel to make him to survive and walk in deserts and walks on sands.

 

10- The immigration of birds and fish by thousands of miles.

 

11- We breath Oxygen and produce Carbon Oxide and the Plants use Carbon Oxide to produce to us Oxygen

Here is the 6 types of evolution. .

 

(i) Cosmic Evolution (the origin of space, time, matter and energy from nothing, there are 5 different theories competing . Each has its strength or weakness. The famous one the "big bang" theory does not address the major question, "where did everything come from?" . How did this explosion cause order, while every explosion causes only disorder and dist ructions? Also the Big Bang also violates two out of three Laws of Thermodynamics);

 

(ii) Chemical Evolution:(the development of the higher elements from hydrogen- assumtions);

 

iii) Stellar and Planetary Evolution (the origin of stars and planets amount to anything more than "fairy tales," and imagination has no part in real science);

 

iv) Organic Evolution (the origin of organic life. Spontaneous Generation as the Origin of Life, despite the apparent contradiction to empirical science). Francesco Redi and Louis Pasteur have succeeded in disproving Spontaneous Generation long time ago.

 

(v) Macro Evolution (Large-scale, or major changes from one kind of life form to another (assumption) involving innovations in structure or body plan, or new organs. Nothing aproved that happen and is still lack of transitional fossils in the fossil record, and the harmful trend of genetic mutation. ,

 

(vi) Micro Evolution (small-scale, or minor changes and adaptations within a population of life forms i.e. the variation within the kinds). This observed and documented. It does not result in leaps between one kind of life form and another, but in a wide variation of types of this same form. Although we observe many varieties within the group, a finch remains a finch, a virus a virus, a moth a moth, etc. We are familiar with breeding process to produce various kinds of horses, cows, cheep, dogs, cats,...etc.. The "variation within a kind" is what Darwin observed in the mid-1800's, and what we still observe today... Also We all know and recognize the viruses and bacteria development as well as the development of the defiance system But no scientist has ever seen a host animal develop a new defense mechanism causing it to evolve into a higher life-from; similarly, no one has ever witnessed a parasite develop a new, improved attack method that ultimately resulted in its transformation into a new species. (macro evolution if occurred) .

[Dark_Viking 0]

7. In replying to dark_viking-m For the boy/guy/man who doesn't believe that we evoluted from monkeys (primates to be more precise), how do you explain our "tail"? (that thing called coxix) Coxix is the proof of our evolution. 2nd, how do you explain our similar acts? protecting the child, the male is who hunts, the female take care of the nest. 3rd, how do you explain our similar brain? 4th, 5 fingers on each hand? what other species has it?....

I'm terribly sorry, but I'm afraid you've 'replied' to the wrong person. If I'd originally posted the above, you'd know it was me as I'd've spelled 'coxix' as coccyx (if we're having a 'who's got what qualifications' contest: BSc (hons) Archaeological Science with Medicine, MSc (Distinction) Forensic Anthropology). I'm sorry but I can't reply to the rest of your post as I'm concerned I'd misinterpret some of your points, based on your post's grammar. Replying may just lead to confusion and bad feelings where none were originally intended, and I genuinely cannot understand much of what you wrote.

I'd also suggest, to anyone curious enough to research scientific theory, the Theory of Evolution and so on, to research these concepts fully and not solely rely on posts on an open source public forum. Peer-reviewed journals are the best places to start.
Edited December 13, 2007 by Dark_Viking (see edit history)