The United States Gun Laws

[mojoman 0]

1 August 1966 - Sniper Charles Whitman kills 14 people and injures dozens at University of Texas

20 April 1999 - Two teenagers at Columbine High School, Colorado, kill 13 before killing themselves

21 March 2005 - A teenager on an Indian reservation in Red Lake, Minnesota, kills nine

 

16 April 2007 (yesterday) - Student kills 32, injures 29 more, and finally kills himself in Virginia Tech University, worst shooting spree yet.

 

 

so any thoughts on the USA gun laws?

imo its so absurdly simple, the fact that they havent amended the constitution about the stupid "right to bear arms" yet proves my point more that the real people in power are the big arms manufacturing businesses (along with oil, but thats irrelevant) - they were in power in the Cold War and they are going to stay in power for as long as they can.

 

its totally ridiculous, yeah sure you might be able to more easily defend yourself with a gun, but the CRIMINALS can get guns as well, which makes it more easier for them to attack you, and FAR more easier for mass-murders to happen...hence the recent staggering increases in massacres lately. I mean, jesus tap dancing christ lol, you can buy ammo in US supermarkets!

 

obviously, the fact that people can buy guns and ammo in the US isnt the sole reason for all the massacres.

The other main reason would be the culture nowadays.

 

- the decades of the peace-orientated hippies is gone (60s, 70s)

- the decades of the doom n gloom anarchics (punks, grungers) is also gone (80s, early 90s) - these ppl may have been about anarchy and flouting rules, but they rarely went beyond graffiti and suchlike vandalism.

- now comes the decade of the "gangsters", the violence-orientated culture, opposite to the love n peace style of the 60s and 70s.

 

the 80s and early 90s saw increases in vandalism, which were obviously due to the youth culture. Now we are seeing increase in violence, which must also be due to the youth culture. How does this relate to guns? here's how....

the USA is not the only country to be suffering from an increase in murders and violence in schools and colleges, i live in the UK, and as any1 in the UK should knwo, there have been lots and lots of murders happening in schools in the past few years.

HOWEVER:

these murders are only single murders, where victims get stabbed.

stabbed - not shot.

obviously, if the youths of london had the kind of access to guns that the US youths have, the murders would not be murders but massacres, like in the US schools.

luckily for kids in the UK, guns are illegal without a license that is extremely extremely hard to obtain

 

so ppl, dissagree, agree? should guns be banned in the US or not?

[shadowx 0]

I like the fact this topic appeared as i feel its a god extension to the current thread abut the latest massacre in the US. I think guns should be banned in the US. now the problem being is how? How do you disarm an ENTIRE nation as big as the USA, but thats pretty much beyond the scope of the question. I too live in the UK and sure sometimes it can be a little rough around here, the south east is "here", but there is rarely a shooting and if there is its usually one person getting shot or stabbed as said. Usually gang related as people dont usually get randomly killed. But if we had access to guns i would literally be scared to go outside. It would be terrible. Petty theft would become murder, teenagers would get kicks out of shooting the tires out on cars or scaring random people. And im sure there would be massive massacres, most likey racism fuelled but also just because people think its cool to own a gun and shoot someone over a silly argument r as a way of saying "here i am" to the world which is possibly what happened in the US lately, seems they are all trying to out do each other to become the "best" murderer. In short, guns should be banned, it will lead to less gun crime..well duh..and possibly a safer USABut then you have to ask should the police carry guns.. now part of me says yes because if theres a guy with a weapon all our UK cops have is a stick and some pepper spray, scary... but then again if the cops have guns the criminals need bigger guns which i believe is another thing in the USA, criminals NEED guns to be "successful" without a gun in the US a robber, gangster, car-jacker wouldnt get anywhere because their target is likely carrying and the police are carrying and that forces them to get a gun, the bigger the better in their eyes i imagine. At least in the UK its mainly limited to knives, which of course is bad but if a guy with a knife appears you can run, or avoid him, if he has a gun you cant run or avoid a bullet. And theres no need for petty thieves to carry guns because no-one else does and the police dont so while their target isnt in a good position it generally keeps the population safer. not perfect but better. I do find the laws in the USA ridiculous concerning weapons... I did see a comical advert for a gun rental shop where any american with a driving liscence can go in with that, and ten dollars and rent ANY gun and ammo in that shop, a drivers licence and ten dollars....what has America done to itself. You could claim "FREEDOM! Americans are free" there are just as free as I in the UK.

[Smack 0]

Your post doesn't sound very intelligent. You say the hippies are gone? Nah, the hippies are just retiring and are a strong voting force. With age -> more people vote. Those so called anarchists you speak of weren't actually anarchists but people saying they were cause stupid teenagers like the idea of it. It sells.

Your post should be merged into this thread as thats what that topic has turned into. Wanna know what I think? Read the posts under that topic.

Edited April 17, 2007 by Smack (see edit history)

[mojoman 0]

i didnt say hippes were gone, i said that they arent the current youth culture - sure there are a few (like me and about 3 other guys in my school lol ), but the violent rap culture is now dominant among youths, hence the rise in gun crime in the US and knife crime in the UK.and yeah, ur right, maybe anarchists was a strong word, but its pretty hard 2 describe the general culture in that period- graffiti and vandalism rose steeply in that period, so i called them anarchists cos there was a sense of flouting the rules back then.PS:@ shadoweasy to round up all/most of the guns, the cops just give everyone a certain amount of time to hand their guns in, and get a refund. (the army could pay for the refunds i guess, would make a nice change from buying guns from the **** arms dealers. the guns that the army dont want, the ppl who sold the guns can refund.)anyone caught with a gun after the deadline for handing them in = busted

Edited April 17, 2007 by mojoman (see edit history)

[hitmanblood 0]

I am not really familiar with USA laws about arms and arms dealing and retailing. However I have watched the movie bowling in columbine and I understand that the weapons are available almost on every corner in the USA.This might be the biggest problem because when weapons are so freely available around everyone this inflicts criminals and they are able to reash weapons easily then in some other countries. I think that thought behind such laws in US was to make each person ability and tools to defend themselves however these tools are increasing crime rates and by that inflicting on society and usual people to buy guns and weapons. So I think that only solution to this problem would be increased control and legalization of the weaponry that way it will not be available to the criminals and less criminal deeds with fire weapons.

[rvalkass 5]

There are strong arguements on both sides of the guns debate. America has taken one stance, and the UK have taken the other. If you look at the figures, it is quite clear that the UK is far better off with 5,285 people per year being killed in the US due to gun crime, compared to around 20 in the UK, 60 in Germany, 100 in France, and I don't think any at all in Japan. Flipping it the other way, the US has about half as many burglaries (per 1000 people) as the UK. Why? Burglars know that if they break into someone's home, there is a very high likelyhood the owner has a gun in the US. In the UK, we are more likely to get prosecuted for attacking the burglar than the burglar is for breaking and entering.

The NRA, as far as I am aware, is quite a powerful political force in the US, and strongly uphold their constitutional right to bear arms. This makes removing guns from the US an impossibility. What is needed is more control over who has access to guns. I know that in some areas of the US it is possible to obtain a gun with no background check. To me that is absolutely ridiculous. One person has their right to bear arms, but the rest of the local population has a right to safety for themselves and their families. Surely the rights of the mass population are more important than the right of one person, especially if that person has a history of violent crime? I certainly wouldn't be happy living somewhere in the knowledge that violent criminals can obtain firearms.

But then you have to ask should the police carry guns.. now part of me says yes because if theres a guy with a weapon all our UK cops have is a stick and some pepper spray, scary...

We in the UK do have armed response units, which are on call 24 hours a day, and are highly trained in the use of firearms. They are frequently called out to terrorism scares, violent crime scenes and all sorts of other incidents. Unfortunately it seems necessary now due to the prevelant availability of guns on the 'underground' market.

luckily for kids in the UK, guns are illegal without a license that is extremely extremely hard to obtain

Handguns can be bought for as little as Ł30 to Ł50. Someone already involved in the criminal underworld is not likely to shy away from that purchase on grounds of leaglity. The current penalty for posessing a firearm is up to 10 years, or just a fine. This unfortunately frequently allows the criminals to have an upper hand over the general population and often the police. What is needed here is to change the law to allow the occupant of a home to attack any intruder as they see fit. Perhaps even legalising things like very low velocity weapons and allowing air rifles to be used to defend your home would at least give the public a chance to disable and disarm any assailant.
The same should be applied to the USA. Sure, people should be allowed to defend themselves, their family and their property, but lethal weapons should not just be handed out and easily available. Tazers, guns firing rubber bullets and things like that should be enough for most people to see off an attacker or burglar.

To play Devil's advocate for a minute, I heard an arguement this morning that this is a case for gun laws to be relaxed. Their point was that if the students involved in this recent attack were also armed then the gunman would have been brought down much quicker. I am wondering what other peoples views are on this? Personally, I think that if the students were also armed then the devastation would have been far worse.

[Smack 0]

And that is what is truly wrong with our "justice" system... I understand that if they allowed us to beat those who break and enter would probably lead to lots of "oh but he came in my house so im allowed to murder him" type cases but i like to think that if someone broke in and threatened me and/or my family i would be legally able to beat him to the ground so hes no longer a danger, i wouldn't kill him, but definitely make sure he was no longer a threat and then make sure he never tried that again!

In Texas if someone breaks into your house and you fear for your life you are legally allowed to shoot and kill the person.

I don't ever see guns being illegal in Texas. Unless the national government steps in.

[JDameron91 0]

Obviously, rasing the age to get a gun won't do much to stop the killing sprees, but there should be more emphasis put on parents not allowing their kids to even get close to guns. Lowering the stress level will do much to help solve this problem, less stress, less killing...I think.

[shadowx 0]

5,285 people per year being killed in the US due to gun crime, compared to around 20 in the UK, 60 in Germany, 100 in France, and I don't think any at all in Japan

that is truly scary...I know the US has a lot more people than here in the UK but that doesnt account for the huge difference im sure. It really does show the problem in America with guns.
And i definately agree with all countries having the equivalent of a SWAT team and armed police in airports etc where a bomber/gunman needs to be taken down instantly to prevent a massive disaster, inevitably someone will get a gun and if they do then they need to be disarmed quickly.

In the UK, we are more likely to get prosecuted for attacking the burglar than the burglar is for breaking and entering.

And that is what is truly wrong with our "justice" system... I understand that if they allowed us to beat those who break and enter would probably lead to lots of "oh but he came in my house so im allowed to murder him" type cases but i like to think that if someone broke in and threatened me and/or my family i would be legally able to beat him to the ground so hes no longer a danger, i wouldn't kill him, but definitely make sure he was no longer a threat and then make sure he never tried that again!
But i dont think that is a good reason for legalising guns, rather have my house robbed than have 3O of my friends shot..

It is a problem that guns arent impossible to get hold of but in my opinion guns in the US are like alcohol in the UK, just get an adult to buy one if you cant do it yourself! At least in the UK you have to know the "right" people to get a gun and such and because of that and the threat of "justice being served" i think many teenagers and adults are put off of guns realising that if used they carry a hefty sentence and they can be hard-ish to get hold of unless your in that sort of crowd. And also i think guns are seen as a bit over the top in some ways in the UK as you dont need a gun to be a criminal and its not worth having a gun but in the US you need a gun to be a criminal or you're going no where.

In the end its a vicious cycle, criminals carry guns for whatever reason so you get a gun to feel safe so they get a bigger gun to be more effective so you buy a cannon and it just gets worse and worse to the point everyone has to have a gun and the bigger the better.

The same should be applied to the USA. Sure, people should be allowed to defend themselves, their family and their property, but lethal weapons should not just be handed out and easily available. Tazers, guns firing rubber bullets and things like that should be enough for most people to see off an attacker or burglar.

true words, everyone has the right to protect themselves but i think everyone owning a gun is overkill...the irony.

[FolkRockFan 0]

1. If guns were banned, then the police would not need guns. Citizens would not have guns, so why would the police need them? Oh, right - because criminals will get their hands on whatever they want no matter how many laws, signs, punishments or threats the government issues/enacts/distributes/whatever.2. You cannot stop criminals from breaking the law. The Virginia Tech shooter did not care that he was entering a no-gun zone with two handguns. He entered anyway. He did not care that murder is illegal. He killed anyway. He did what he wanted to do and nobody stopped him. Why wasn't he stopped? Because the people in the dorms and the classroom were unarmed. He had a clear advantage because he knew that the law-abiding students and professors would not draw their own handguns and shoot back. 3. Every law-abiding American citizen has the right to keep and bear arms. This is an individual right. The founding fathers wrote many papers and opinions about this. They're pretty easy to find with Google if anybody cares to see exactly what Sam Adams and his contemporaries had to say.4. Guns are not the problem. Bad guys are the problem. The UK still has shootings. They have gun bans, but people still shoot each other. How does that happen? The criminals import guns from other parts of the world. 5. Had the students, professors, janitors and other people at Virginia Tech been armed, things probably would have ended differently. When Whitman went up into the University of Texas tower in the 1960s and started shooting people, students and other people with rifles in their cars shot back. He had to take cover, meaning that he could not get off as many shots. He probably would have killed even more people than he did had somebody not done something to try and stop him. I don't believe that *every* Virginia Tech student would have lived yesterday had concealed handgun license holders been on campus and armed...but I *do* believe that the university was a soft target because the shooter knew that none of the students and faculty were armed. He had his own little shooting gallery in the dorms and the classroom. Had some of the "good guys" been armed, perhaps somebody would have been able to shoot him before he got tired of the mass slaughter and killed himself.Gun control doesn't keep us safe. It gives criminals better opportunities to commit their crimes. Armed citizens who follow the laws and learn how to safely handle firearms might not even have to draw their weapons at any point in their lives. Sometimes just knowing that the population is armed is enough to discourage scumbags from committing their crimes.

[csp4.0 1]

Making guns 100% illegal to use for any civilian is a good thing, because then it discourages criminals. Stronger border control will make smuggling drugs and weapons much harder and much more expensive, giving criminals a harder time getting the money and weapons. Law enforcement which is very strongshould discourage even civilians into using firearms, like the execution is a good way of discouragement, but stoning is better.If people all had M249s in their bags more people would die, because there would be bigger shoot-outs instead of the negotiation.Negotiations should be damned, they only make the gunman madder, so they police should call the swat team and snipe the gun out of the gunman's hnd or do a headshot. Discouragement is very effective and should b considered. Rather than encouragement

[shigajet 0]

It's a bit of a difficult issue, to be sure, but since the philosophy for many people in America is to "live by the gun", how would you go about changing things? I can only speak for Ontario (the province I grew up in) and in Japan. As far as I know, Ontario does have a gun law and it requires a hunting licence - and they're very strict about that as well.

Edited April 18, 2007 by shigajet (see edit history)

[shadowx 0]

Oh, right - because criminals will get their hands on whatever they want no matter how many laws, signs, punishments or threats the government issues/enacts/distributes/whatever.

Making guns 100% illegal to use for any civilian is a good thing, because then it discourages criminals. Stronger border control will make smuggling drugs and weapons much harder and much more expensive, giving criminals a harder time getting the money and weapons

well i guess that sort of covers that!

The point is if guns are harder to come by they are more expensive and of course guns are rarer. If guns are harder to find criminals are less likely to sell them to outsiders, yes gangsters will have them but gangsters arent the ones running into schools shooting people, sure gangsters are bad people but in all fairness they tend to keep things between themselves and not shoot random students.

The point is if guns are harder to come by its likely that many of the tragedies involving unstable people getting guns wouldnt happen, a psychotic person is unlikely to have or make the connections to be able to purchase a gun if they are banned, it wont stop them being violent and maybe going in with a knife or unarmed but thats a lot easier to defend aganst and run from.

you wont ever ban guns from the entire world, or from any country but you can try to reduce the number. and that reduces the chances of something bad happening. You cant argue with that simple logic.

You cannot stop criminals from breaking the law

No because of the definition of the word "criminal" and there will always be criminals for whatever reason but there doesnt need to be ARMED criminals. Sure you get thieves etc... but they dont need to have a gun and by making guns illegal with a heavy sentence these thieves most likely wont carry a gun because they risk an even longer sentence.

Guns are not the problem. Bad guys are the problem. The UK still has shootings.

Yes bad guys are a problem, guns are too, and bad guys with guns are an even bigger problem. The uk does have shootings but we dnt have massacres like in the US and i think one of the reasons is that guns are illegal! if i was carrying a gun id either get shot dead or put away, neither of which are that appealing, and im sure a lot of other people think like that, even those who would like a gun dont own one because of this.

A ban on guns would make any country safer

[succeedatall 0]

It's a bit of a difficult issue to be sure, even if guns are banned criminals will find a way to get them regardless of the consequences, but the real point here is The Virginia Tech shooter was phsycotic person a ban of guns may have kept him fromkilling as many people

[hitmanblood 0]

It's a bit of a difficult issue to be sure, even if guns are banned criminals will find a way to get them regardless of the consequences, but the real point here is The Virginia Tech shooter was phsycotic person a ban of guns may have kept him fromkilling as many people

Well bad guys will always find ways to buy and purchase illegal guns in fact I assume that most of those guns is really bought illegal on the streets. So I would like to say that states should employ some sort of though control over who is buying guns and test those persons check what is happening with guns after person dies who inherits the gun and so on and so on. There are so many things to consider it would be hard call but someone has to do it. Otherwise more such cases will occur in the us.