Vegan Diet

[cramy 0]

Why we all need Vitamin B12, is an article from todays newspaper.
Vitamin B12 is also known as Cobalamin and was the last B vitamin to be identified. It plays a vital part in the manufacture of red blood cells, which are needed to carry oxygen round the body. Cobalamin is also needed for a healthy nervous system.
Deficiency can lead to pernicious anaemia,extreme fatigue,and neurological symptoms such as forgetfulness,dizziness,tingling and loss of co-ordination. Low levels are also linked to depression and mood swings. Dr Joseph Chandy of Shinwell Medical Group in Horden, Durham, has treated hundreds of patients over 25 years. He believes B12 deficiency is a forgotten illness, affecting up to 12 per cent of the population.
The scale of the problem is vastly underestimated, he says, because doctors are using out-of-date criteria to identify the condition. His work has shown B12 deficiency has no respect for age or gender- his patients include a boy of 10 and people in their 80s.
The deficiency can be caused by a number of factors, including a vegetarian or vegan diet, because B12 is found naturally in animal sources such as meat, liver, fish eggs and milk.
However some people,s bodies fail to absorb vitamin B12 direcrty from food- and the only way this balance can be redressed is regular injections directly into their blood.

It can be dangerous to over-dose on any vitamin, including vitamin B12. If you think you are deficient in this vitamin, seek medical advice.
My own opinion is to take a vitamin b complex, at the recommended dose, every day.

Notice from BuffaloHELP:

Pasting the same message from a froum to forum is called SPAM. How about posting some original thinking and words? Source http://forums.menshealth.com/?nc=1

Edited January 11, 2007 by BuffaloHELP (see edit history)

[juice 0]

You should have used quote tags. I am a vegetarian and I am just as healthy as the next person. I hate it when stupid doctors or/and people say one needs meat to be healthy and gain protein and junk like that. An elephant is strong right? An elephant does NOT eat meat. Most meat eaters get there protein from cows. Cows get their protein from grass. Can your teeth rip through the raw skin of a cow? I don't think so but a lion with MASSIVE teeth can. Here is a fact for you: humans are the only creatures on this planet to cook it's food. Mmm, interesting - so long meat-eaters, happy digesting

[Yratorm, LightMage 0]

I think refraining from fanaticism in all it's forms leads to a happier, healthier life.

[salamangkero 0]

I am a vegetarian and I am just as healthy as the next person. I hate it when stupid doctors or/and people say one needs meat to be healthy and gain protein and junk like that. An elephant is strong right? An elephant does NOT eat meat. Most meat eaters get there protein from cows. Cows get their protein from grass.

Oookay, first off, those "stupid doctors" didn't get the title "Doctor" for being stupid. If anything, I think the title is indicative of the opposite. Also, if you really read the original post, you'd find that some vegetarian diets bring about, not lack of protein, but lack of cobalamin, or Vitamin B12. The complexities of vegetarian diets do not end with protein.

Also, the strength of a creatures relies not on its size. Just because an elephant is large does not mean it necessarily is strong. Look at ants. They can lift up to 50 times their own weight! They also eat meat, btw

Another thing, just because you are healthy now does not mean it will stay that way forever. It may take months or even years before the effects of a new diet begins to manifest themselves.

Lastly, there is no point in comparing humans to cows and elephants when it comes to diet. For one, cows and elephants are completely capable of digesting cellulose, which is why they need not eat meat. We, humans, on the other hand, can only get starch and vitamins from most plant matter that we do need to eat meat to get our protein somewhere.

[juice 0]

Oookay, first off, those "stupid doctors" didn't get the title "Doctor" for being stupid. If anything, I think the title is indicative of the opposite. Also, if you really read the original post, you'd find that some vegetarian diets bring about, not lack of protein, but lack of cobalamin, or Vitamin B12. The complexities of vegetarian diets do not end with protein.
Also, the strength of a creatures relies not on its size. Just because an elephant is large does not mean it necessarily is strong. Look at ants. They can lift up to 50 times their own weight! They also eat meat, btw

Another thing, just because you are healthy now does not mean it will stay that way forever. It may take months or even years before the effects of a new diet begins to manifest themselves.

Lastly, there is no point in comparing humans to cows and elephants when it comes to diet. For one, cows and elephants are completely capable of digesting cellulose, which is why they need not eat meat. We, humans, on the other hand, can only get starch and vitamins from most plant matter that we do need to eat meat to get our protein somewhere.

I'm going to leave you to your own demise, have a good day and keep up the quality posting!

PS: I will not post again in this thread so please don't reply to my posts - thank you.
Edited January 10, 2007 by juice (see edit history)

[master_bacarra 0]

and runs off just like that. can't accept criticism huh?first of all, doctors probably don't know that you're a vegan. after all when you look at two people, one being a carnivore and one being a vegan, there's not really much of a difference on the way they look. it's not like there's a banner overhead that says "hey i'm a vegan". doctors say that because it is what they think the best diet for people that do eat meat. you could have at least mentioned to your doctor that you're a vegan and that he should give out advice on getting alternatives to get your dose of protein. after all, you're not considered healthy if you don't have enough nutrients to supply your body. there are a lot of foods that are not meat and can provide you with protein.with regards to the topic, i sort of can't connect it to the first post of this thread. although vitamin b12 is a derivative of what people need to stay healthy, it doesn't necessarily mean it's only for vegans. from the post itself, it's mentioned that b12 is necessary for proper blood cell creation, that vitamin 12 deficiency would lead to certain complications, so it means that it should also apply to non-vegans. the topic would have been clearer if the first post was about some trivia on vegans and vegan diet.

[juice 0]

and runs off just like that. can't accept criticism huh?

Sorry, I was having a bad day. I can take all the criticism in the world but I prefer not to talk back because the ones criticising are firmly set in their beliefs and are not prepared to learn other people's way of living. They do it the way they know and that's it.

I think refraining from fanaticism in all it's forms leads to a happier, healthier life.

I don't think that will ever happen in my life-time but would be a miracle if it did.

[master_bacarra 0]

Sorry, I was having a bad day.

okay... so your post depends on your mood for that day?

I can take all the criticism in the world but I prefer not to talk back because the ones criticising are firmly set in their beliefs and are not prepared to learn other people's way of living. They do it the way they know and that's it.

uh... sure sure. just because someone comments about your post that is opposite to yours, doesn't necessarily mean they're "close-minded". if you read salamangkero's post properly, his post wasn't implying anything about him being firmly set on his beliefs. he was just merely being informative and that he was correcting some of your post. what's so wrong with that? so i guess we could all blame the mood for spoiling the day huh?

[juice 0]

It's ok, you can all criticise me as much as you like, take out all your anger Feel free to critisice me to earn those great hosting credits! It's ok because I don't have time for this junk and this thread - goodbye.

[master_bacarra 0]

who said i was angry? jeez. and please, i've probably been here longer than you. gathering hosting credits is probably just second in my list to do here in trap. and if you don't have time for "junk" like this, then why do you keep on replying then? in fact, why did you post in the first place? if you can't handle criticism well, then you shouldn't have acted hastily in the first place.

[salamangkero 0]

Oh, where will the hurting stop?!?
Seriously some people here have some form of persecution complex.
"You're dissing me 'coz I'm black?"
"You oppose me 'coz I'm vegetarian?"
"You criticize me 'coz I'm gay?"
"You keep on pulling me down 'coz your boyfriend turned out to be gay and slept with me after breaking up with you and your fat @$$?!?"

Oh, I'm not gonna use the last one yet

Seriously, I thought this was a thread where one can openly discuss their ideas, not enforce them on other people. Also, if you're having a rotten day, might I offer you a link to this thread by detportal; I'm sure the two of you have a lot of wonderfully rotten things in common. You might also find other similar topics more appropriate for your mood in the forum vent.

I, on the other hand, am having a jolly day so I'm gonna enthusiastically go over your replies while I was gone.
1. I'm going to leave you to your own demise, have a good day and keep up the quality posting!
-I won't ask you to rescue me from what you think is my doom. Although I was disappointed to find out that my tact reply has been responded to with mild hostility. I do appreciate the smiley, though.
2. PS: I will not post again in this thread so please don't reply to my posts - thank you.
-Yes, we can see the veracity (sic) of that statement now, don't we?
3. Sorry, I was having a bad day. I can take all the criticism in the world but I prefer not to talk back...
-Oh? Indeed?
4. ...because the ones criticizing are firmly set in their beliefs and are not prepared to learn other people's way of living.
-Au contraire, the reason I initially went into this thread was to find out why some people adopt vegan diets. Might I add that I would so love to meet a different vegetarian because, so far, someone hasn't been too helpful, cooperative or, least of all, civil.
5. They do it the way they know and that's it.
-I eat meat but am I telling you to eat chicken? Do you hear me saying, "It's your demise/death/doom if you don't eat a cow, err, beef"?
6. I don't think that will ever happen in my life-time but would be a miracle if it did.
-Wait, weren't you the guy who was saying something about firm-set beliefs, closed-mindedness and not preparing to learn other people's way of living? I might be mistake but I do think it was you
7. It's ok, you can all criticise me as much as you like, take out all your anger.
-It's not anger, dearie (I speak for myself. How about you, mbacarra? ). It's sane and rational thinking accompanied by logic, but if it makes you feel any better, it is anger then
8. Feel free to critisice me to earn those great hosting credits!
-Ah, yes. I love this part. You will see, though, that I have quoted my post, just so you know I'm not earning any credits from mincing your words. I do agree, those hosting credits are great, though (For the mods, please don't remove the quote tags, I'm quoting my evil alter-ego)
9. It's ok because I don't have time for this junk and this thread - goodbye.
-There goes the vegetarian cause. Now we stoopid meet-eaters will never learn about the reason why people adopt vegan diets. Ah, what the hell am I talking about, he'll probably return

Now, to business (which implies a post that is, at the very least, relevant to the thread and not a confrontation to another poster's response) might anyone else (expect for some people we know) tell me why people adopt vegan diets? I am aware of animal-rights and all similar reasons but don't plants also feel "pain"? Just a thought

[Sprnknwn 0]

Well, I?m not vegan but I have vegan friends. And I don?t know if I?m the most indicated to talk about this (not vegan and not english-speaker so I hope nothing is misunderstood) but I feel that this is "everybody against juice". I mean it?s like sometimes meat-eating people (like me) seem to be offended whenever someone talks about not eating meat and animal rights. I suppose we feel some kind of blame deep inside our minds although we deny it and we adopt a defensive posture about it. Anyway I don?t like the way some vegans try to judge people who eat meat.They always talk about ethics. There are also vegetarian people who go on that diet just because they think it?s healthier, but not much vegans have his diets on health terms, but moral. That question (why not animals and vegetables yes) I have ask myself but I think the answer is clear. Yes, we know that plants are also a life form, but it?s undeniable that animals are at a level more similar than humans. They move, they suffer and express it, they have instincts... you know, when a man have an accident or suffer an illness that made him totally invalid we tend to say that he's in vegetative state... and not in a animal state or whatever. I think that illustrates very well how plants don?t have the same vitality of humans and animals.One thing that a vegan friend of mine always remarks it?s that they're not ecologists or animal lovers, they do it because feel that animals deserve respect and so they?re against all kind of mistreat. Then they can even hate animals but respect them, I guess the same way that I respect human people that I like and some other that I don?t.

[Misanthrope 0]

Oookay, first off, those "stupid doctors" didn't get the title "Doctor" for being stupid. If anything, I think the title is indicative of the opposite. Also, if you really read the original post, you'd find that some vegetarian diets bring about, not lack of protein, but lack of cobalamin, or Vitamin B12. The complexities of vegetarian diets do not end with protein.
Also, the strength of a creatures relies not on its size. Just because an elephant is large does not mean it necessarily is strong. Look at ants. They can lift up to 50 times their own weight! They also eat meat, btw

Another thing, just because you are healthy now does not mean it will stay that way forever. It may take months or even years before the effects of a new diet begins to manifest themselves.

Lastly, there is no point in comparing humans to cows and elephants when it comes to diet. For one, cows and elephants are completely capable of digesting cellulose, which is why they need not eat meat. We, humans, on the other hand, can only get starch and vitamins from most plant matter that we do need to eat meat to get our protein somewhere.

My understanding is that medical doctors are required to take little or no coursework in nutrition, so on that level, yes, they can be quite ignorant.

I've been vegetarian since I was 8, and can vouch from my own experience that this lifestyle is a very healthy one. I can remember being the only kid in grade school who didn't get the flu. I sort of felt left out, actually - like I was missing out on something. Now I'm thankful my mother had the good sense to keep meat out of my diet!

[JasperIk 0]

The problem with many people who eat meat, is that is their 'main food' on their plate, having a HUGE peice of meat, and a small pile of vegetables is NOT healthy. You don't need as much meat as people think you do, the ammount of each food on someones plate usually is wrong, and people act as if you can't have a meal without a piece of meat, but you CAN. The original post wasn't saying you need to eat a whole cow and a bunch of chickens per day to get what you need, i am sure a small peice of meat per day would do the job, your body doesn't need as much meat as people consume they probably need more vegetables and fruits instead. The way i look at it, is if you have to cook the meat you don't need it...sure people supposedly have 'canine' teeth but compare them to animals and you'd see your teeth aren't nearly as equipped. I also think because so many people eat so much meat they are getting too much of one kind of vitamin and not enough else where, but any way back to the original post we all know we need vitamins, and i think its smart to take vitamin pills because we cant always eat all the foods 'doctors' recommend, for example i cannot eat meat ignoring my beliefs about eatting meat, it makes me litterly sick...so i have to get some vitamins elsewhere.

[master_bacarra 0]

but I feel that this is "everybody against juice".

actually he asked for it. salamangkero wasn't against his beliefs. he was just merely giving out some information that lacked in juice's statement. and with juice acting like such, it felt like he didn't understood the idea quite well and just labeled salamangkero as "close-minded".

sure people supposedly have 'canine' teeth but compare them to animals and you'd see your teeth aren't nearly as equipped.

you have a point here. humans have evolved from a lower being to a higher one and as that happens, the body processes change to make the human "adopt" to their environment. if you believe in evolution like i do (i don't want to argue with religious people, so please...), the ancestor of man had tails at first. but as time passed the tail wasn't of any use and as the evolutionary process continues, the tail shrinks to a tailbone which makes what a human looks like right now. the point of this one is that the canine teeth's function is for tearing (maybe meat, or maybe veggies) food. the shapes of our teeth have some relevance and it's a matter of what has evolution done to change a human.
anyway, i'm making this out of topic already so i need to zip my mouth