Do Mental "illnesses" Like Schizophrenia Show What Reality Is? Do they show what reality REALLY is? an illusion?

[shadowx 0]

Hi all

 

As part of psychology we study mental "illnesess" (quotes because who says they are illnesses not just differences?) and one we study is schizophrenia, im sure many of you know roughy what it entails such as hearing voices, hallucinations, disorganized speach and being generally detatched from the world as if in a dream world.

 

Well basically i think that schizophrenia shows us that reality is actually just an illusion created in the mind. If these people see things then that is their reality and it is real to them. one psychologist describes schizophrenia as "a sane way to deal with an insane world" which i think is partly true. For one how do we know that people who think aliens are trying to abduct them arent right? it could be that aliens really are trying to abduct them and we dont belive them, or maybe we are the insane ones and they are sane? We could be in denial of the fact that aliens are abducting pepople.

 

You can see that everyone has their own reality and there is no such thing as REALITY as reality is defined on the net as:

the state of the world as it really is rather than as you might want it to be

Well who deciedes what the world really is? is it some old white-heaired guy in a lab saying "ahh this is real, this is not..." or is society as a whole? Or is it the individual? In my opinion it is the individual, I decide wether life is good or not, wether someone is a good person, and technically my mind has created the world around me. I belive it was the matrix film that suggested "reality is just electrical impulses interpreted by the brain" this is too true. If my brain decides the weather is sunny, then the weather is sunny as far as im concerned! And that is the reality to me.

 

Anyone have any ideas on this? All in all, there is no reality which suggests we are all living in an illusion created by out minds and brains.

 

Humm my tutor would be proud of that methinks Lets hope someone else has veiws on this subject!

[icemarle 0]

It seems like you're proposing your philosophy... Well... I kinda think that life is what you make it. You can always go through life as if it were a dream. If you noticed, dreams break the boundaries of time. Sometimes you dream about the past, present and future. When you dream about the future (and sometimes forget about your dream) and the dream comes true, you get deja vu. Who knows... we may all be living in a dream. Why is it that dreams have such power? Maybe that's reality...

 

Pretty interesting thoughts there. Maybe those schizophrenic persons are actually experiencing reality. We may never know unless we become like them (though I'm not sure if we'll still be able to testify)

[shadowx 0]

we may all be living in a dream. Why is it that dreams have such power?

Mhmm, ive thought that too! How do we know we arent actually schizophrenics who when we sleep we have more "real" dreams and when we wake "reality" seems like a dream. So when we really are dreaming we think we're awake and when we really are awake we are actually dreaming? (if that makes sense!)

That would mean that when we "dream" (IE when we are actually awake but think we are dreaming) the people we see who seem weird would be people in the waking world and everythng that happens would be interpreted by our schizophrenic brain and twisted so it seems like a dream!

Its a very good point! You made me think in detail now, which is never good!

[cangor 0]

That?s very philosophical of you, shadowx? I guess whatever your brain tells you could be considered reality ? after all, what you see is reality to you. For example, maybe what you see as red is actually blue to others? But then again, I guess reality is just not in one?s own mind but in their dealings/relationships with others? I mean, if you?re schizophrenic you really don?t see others as what they are. If you hallucinate or something that people are aliens, then is that true? No, not really, because, even if we do all look like aliens in reality (which there is nothing to compare us to, so I guess that?s true) we see each other as human beings? our intentional actions are in reality? If you hallucinate that someone is trying to kill you when in reality this entity is trying to diagnose you, it?s pretty obvious what reality is.

[Rhode 0]

i have a view on this. i think that if people are in reality, other people think they are insane. Maybe schizophrenics are in reality and we are the ones calling them insane. We call them insane, but they never call us insane. Maybe that's beacuse the are in reality.The problem, though, is that they are not able to comprehend reality, and that's what drives them "insane". The just don't understand reality. They see it, but don't get it, and we just don't see it at all.

[shadowx 0]

Thanx, they offered a philosphy course at college, maybe i shouldve taken it!

 

If you hallucinate that someone is trying to kill you when in reality this entity is trying to diagnose you, it?s pretty obvious what reality is.

This could work the other way around, we see them as diagnosing but in actual fact they might be tryin to kill the person. does that make sense? basically anything that we think is a hallucination they are having could infact be a hullicination we are having and they are seeing the truth.

 

We call them insane, but they never call us insane. Maybe that's beacuse the are in reality.

Exactly!! i was worried people might think im crazy! but maybe not!

 

And great example with the red and blue thing cangor, it shows what we all mean so easilly!

[triple6fistdestructionsoulhammer 0]

This could go into a whole bit on sense-data as well. Something may not exist in a material sense but something is indeed there and that something is sense-data. There are ideas that we do not directly percieve the materail world and only percieve this sense-data. Now with schizophrenia, it may very well be "tuned" into something. I really haven't read much on how or why schizophrenia works and I'm a psych major. Nobody seems to be able to provide any agreeable answers to my knowledge. If anybody knows anything, I would love to find out more.

[shadowx 0]

By sense data do you mean data from the senses? Meaning that the world is infact "made up" of data in the senses, which is similar to what i mean about reality beinng an illusion in the mind.

[triple6fistdestructionsoulhammer 0]

By sense data do you mean data from the senses? Meaning that the world is infact "made up" of data in the senses, which is similar to what i mean about reality beinng an illusion in the mind.

Well, take this as an example if you will; A man in the desert comes to an oasis, but this oasis is a mirage. There is not really a oasis there, but something is still being seen. It does not exist in a physical or material form, but it still exists. That thing that exists is a sense-data. If you are interested in learnign more about the concept of sense-data, perhaps start with A. J. Ayer who is a philosopher who talks of the subject.

Now, the way we take in the world is through our senses. We see, we smell, touch, hear, and so on. Our senses take in this information, process it and interpret. This information exists within us for a ver small amount of time and is then project outwards to experience. This experience of materail is our sense's data of that material. So according to Ayer and other philosophers, we only experience the data of the world, our interpretations of the world, and not the actual material object.

[pixieloo 0]

Everybody sees the world differently, which is probably why people get into so many arguments. It's interesting though. Like, people who are color blind see the world a whole lot differently than those that aren't. And they've never known anything else besides a color blind world. People who aren't color blind, on the other hand, don't know what it would be like to be color blind. But, color blind people can't really miss color because they don't know it.I think it's similar for people with mental diseases such as schizophrenia. If they were born like that, yes, the world would definitely be a lot different for them. They would see it very differently.I think there is a reality, though. It's just how you perceive it.Like, if someone told a lie, and you believed it, that lie is true for you. For the reality is, it's not.Anywho, I believe in reality.

[katwomanjulie 0]

As someone who IS schizophrenic I find it really awesome that you don't consider me physcotic. But sometimes if you believe that your visions are reality than you can really end up hurting yourself and others. There are so many different types of schizophrenia, I have disorganized schizophrenia. Sometimes my speech is so mumbled that people can't understand me when I talk so must of the time I don't. This is why I love the internet because I can communicate my thoughts clearly. But back to the point, people judge schizophrenics because they can become violent and hurt people some peopel don't realize what they are doing is wrong anda no matter whose reality they are in wehther it be their own reality or our reality hurting people and becoming violent is just wrong.

[matak 2]

?I gave way to delight,as mystics have for centuries when they peeked through the curtains and discovered that this world so manifestly real was actually a tiny stage set constructed by the mind. We discover abruptly that everything we accept as reality is just social fabrications."Timothy Leary, 1966Many many schizophrenics would probably agree with this...

[matak 2]

But beware of todays psychology. I had some trouble with this illness and went to see psychaitrist about it. He said 3 things to me which really worys me about this whole world concept on treating patiens with such simptoms.1. He said that i should take some pills beacouse if i don't i might go "crazy" before new year2nd and 3rd are just to private for me to say it on internetBut this 1st one is really the one that bothers me most. I know it's a "duck" (that is how we express about things that are "oposite of oposite" in Croatia, well at least i do . i hope you understand what i'm getting at. I'm really not sure how that can help someone, even if it did help me personaly but it took me quite a while to get the meaning of that. Baicly all he said is "try to beat me to it" or et least that is how i think of it right now. This is what i wanted to express about early simptoms of schizo. You might think that the whole world is up against you -- maybe it would be better to think how the whole world could be how you wish it could be. All you have to do is build your psyche to it.And just to notice. By resarching this disorder i noticed that severe use of alcohol and drugs (marijuana, acid, Heroin, Ex and such) could induce such simptoms.

[trace-uk 0]

I love when people TRY to be philosophers, they always get it wrong. Reality isn't what we think the world is, or what "socitety" generally thinks the world is.It is alot more biological. we are all predetermined to process information in certain ways - light rays in a certain order = blue etc, gestalt grouping principals etc.schitzophrenia is an ilness becuas ebiologically these people are different from the "norm" and hence their differences in perception and mistakes.

[shadowx 0]

Actually although biology is thought to be a contributor to schizohrenia its not proven and IMHO not the only cause, there are many other causes too.

And how would you define reality? the only reason you feel pain is because you brain says you do, in many cases involving hypnosis where the brain is more relaxed and suggestible people can block out pain and have full operations without drugs and feel no pain.

Basically reality is all in the mind or brain, it is the brain that tells use something hurts, the brain which tells us the grass is green, i know we get sensory info from our eyes but that is interreted by our brains and infact grass could be orange for all we know. This is how dreams can feel real, if you remember your dreams well you will know just how real they feel yet they are created by the mind/brain. Its capable of big things.

This is why I love the internet because I can communicate my thoughts clearly.

I find that quite interesting because one thing we were taught is that the disorganised type is most likely due to faulty information proccessing by the brain so the words get jumbled and hence the disorganised speech but even though your speech is affected your ability to communicate using words isnt affected which kinda says that your brain is working pretty well. Shall put that to my tutor on monday see what she says

1. He said that i should take some pills beacouse if i don't i might go "crazy" before new year

How did you feel about taking pills? I only ask because i dont like the idea of pills being used much because it doesnt get rid of the cause or treat it at all, only treats the symptoms and some drugs for very badly affected people are like tranquilezers

And its true that drugs and possibly alcohol can cause schizohrenic symptoms like halucinations. Strangely enough a drug used to treat parkinsons disease (i think its parkinsons) can also cause schizophrenic symptoms which is freaky considering a lot of older people are probably taking this drug

And finally

I gave way to delight,as mystics have for centuries when they peeked through the curtains and discovered that this world so manifestly real was actually a tiny stage set constructed by the mind. We discover abruptly that everything we accept as reality is just social fabrications."Timothy Leary, 1966

That is one fantastic quote! the man must be a genius! Thanks for posting that
Edited November 22, 2006 by shadowx (see edit history)