Various Religions, beliefs and conviction discussions of faith and opinions

[kasm 0]

.. I used to be a devout catholic but slowly saw the hypocrisy and hated the superiority complex and contradictions inherent in the religion so I decided that I did not want to conform to any one particular set of beliefs.

I believe what I know to be true in my heart not what some narrow minded sexist and ignorant man purported to be true 2000 years ago. That statement is not intended to be insults, the words I used are in context.

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Religious scripture in it's fundamental form is outdated. Once the western world thought that the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth. That was religious 'truth' then that the majority of people firmly believed in and wrote books on. Obviously such ideas have now been quashed. So it is with books like the Bible. I still have great respect for the Bible and many of it's fundamental morals but as an all guiding, historically acurate representation of how life was and should be lived it is extremely inaccurate.

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The Bible is fundamentally flawed and full of contradications, vagueness and pointed omissions. For example, the bible says that bats are birds.

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For example, the story of Noah's Ark is remarkably like the story of Gilgamesh which predates the bible by at least 1000 years.

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Then of course there is translation errors. Many argue that reincarnation was taken out of the bible by catholics who didn't want people to think that they had a second chance.

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Or if you want a christian perspective, according to the gospel of St Thomas "The kingdom of god is inside you and all around you, not in mansions made of wood and stone, lift the stone and you will find me...".

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1. Thorne Rose, I will not debate you here. Enough our debate in ID vs Evolution thread and you didn't answer my questions.

 

2. But here I only show your contradictions and mistakes to learn from. But first, I am not extreme Christian and have no activities in breaching or any relegional service. But I understand good about the three Abrahamic relegion: Juadism, Christianity and Islam.

 

3. you said that you don't intend to insults but in fact you put poisons everywhere as saying :

I believe what I know to be true in my heart not what some narrow minded sexist and ignorant man purported to be true 2000 years ago

.

You can say I believe what I know to be true in my heart and not what others tell me. STOP. Nobody will argue you or accuse you or enforce pressure on you to change your belief. You contradict yourself saying elsewhere:

At any rate, believe what YOU want to, not what someone else tells you to, respect other people even if you don't respect their beliefs, if you want to express your beliefs do so politely, not arrogantly and live life the best you can

Who were polite and who were arrogant? !

 

4. It is safe and not dangerous to attack Christianity. But try to say any bad about Jews or Moslem's. In the first case you will be accused that you are anti--Semite's and in the second one your blood will be allowed as it happened in Holland and Denmark or before the Pakistani author who are in hidings in

 

5. It is error to think bible is 2000 year old. It is about 2000 since Jesus was born. The bible since Moses.

 

6. In same time you believe in Evolution which Darwin put and nobody give us one example of its correctness. If you nare student you can quote in exams what they said in classes without believing . leave the matter to latter age and not reject the others sites. They willn react togother and produce your final belief.

 

7. You believe what they said about (the origin of stars and planets which amount to anything more than "fairy tales and? imagination.

 

8. You quoted from Thomas Gospel and leave the same from other Gospel away. By the way this Thomas Gospel was found with other Gospels near a? Grand mother? city Nag Hammadi in Egypt Yes now I am an Australian but I am Copt not Arab from Egypt. Copts are the aboriginal p[people of Egypt i.e their ancestor the ancient Egyptian.It was in Jar [the method of protection from flood, mice and fire. Every Apostle to Jesus has a Gospel with unique copy [no printers, no copiers, no time to copy]. But with four international conference of the christian they choose the Gospels what in the new testament now. That because they are complete and describes different objects [theology, Jesus life, Jesus miracles, Events from birth to resurrection]. These other Gospel are not complete and has no contradictions with what we have. Christianity in India was breached by St Thomas. They are Orthodox and they not use Thomas Gospel.

 

9. To be fair and just you have to listen to both site. Don't go to site of Atheism or ant-christian and expect to hear from the truth. Go to other site and read what hey say and respond.

 

10. Translation of Bible from Greek or Hebrews are not easy tasks. Different translation are different slightly so call it errors. but are not intentionally. Jehovah Witness said there are 7000 mistakes that because they want instead of world "God" to put "Jehovah.". Are this a serious mistakes?. When I read Bible in Arabic I read Allah as the name of God as the Moslem's say. But this is not make me Moslem's. Allah is God in English , Gotten in German Bog in Russian. Then when the English translators used word "God" They were not mistaken as Jehovah witness claim. The translations is better than no translation. Muslim of all world read their Holly Book "Koran" in Arabic only. I met many Muslim in different countries and when they knows that I am Egyptian they jumped to wrong conclusion that I am Muslim . They started to ask me. I explain to them because I know Christianity, Judaism and Islam very well. They repeat the verses without knowing their meaning. It is forbidden the translation. But in the Internet age, there are Koran in English on the net. They claim that it is the meaning and not translation [i don't know the difference]

 

11. I don't know from where you come that bible consider bat a bird. Here in Australia, we call bat flying fox. Anyhow the bible is not scientific book and these classification of animal are recently established. Also the flatness of the earth is not in the bible but the opposite there. It was problem of the culture in one period of time.

 

12. If the story in Gilgamesh is similar to what in Bible then there is no problem. They have to coincident if they speak about the same period or events. Koran talk about Jesus, Moses, Abraham, David, Salmon and Joseph. The history in Bible covered all events since Adam 7000 years ago. We know exactly the history since Jesus. The Gospel tell us the tree from Jesus until David and the old testament tell us the tree from David to Abraham then from Abraham to Adam. That including Babylon tower and Noah Ark stories.

 

13. It is wrong to think that :

I'm afraid in my view, the majority of religions were created by people who wanted to feel superior and have more power.

Christians suppose to humble and loves everyone even their enemies

 

14. Also is wrong to say :

I decided not to bother explaining to her(mother) that once upon a time, the catholics had complete control over all versions because they were the only christian religion at that time.

Now when we say Catholic we mean "Roman Catholic" church. But Catholic in Greek mean universal . Then in the greed we say we believe in one Catholic Apostolic Church using the greek word "Catholic" . That not mean the Roman Catholic Church. [sometimes we translate completely and say we believe in one Universal Church. Because we believe that church be one and should be united.

 

I am in the Coptic Orthodox church established by St Mark in Alexandria. He was the first Patriarch for Alexandria. Church in Rome established by St Paul and St Peter. The Church in Constantinople's is the Greek Orthodox Churches [Russia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria,....]. Also there is Antioch patriarch . Those were 4 seas independent pilars for the Christianity. I am not sure to what branches Armenian and Georgian churches belong to [because they were in former Soviet Union but they are Orthodox].

[ago 0]

I say that there is faith and religion. Faith is what we feel inside, what we beleive in, and religion is something that eases this path. I am a Catholic, but don't do the catholic rituals and don't go to church to hear sermons. I eventually go to church because it has a peaceful feeling and helps loosen you up. Help you talk to God in quiet. And if you feel you need to take a break then you can just walk around and look at the murals, the stained glass (is that how it is called?), the rich mosaic on the ground, the statues of the saints, the stuccos on the wall, the altar and many many more. It is a place where you can go when you feel alone. And it makes me sad that people forget this.

What I beleive in? Well, I beleive in God. God as God, something that created this world, is this world and is something more. This perspective is called panentheism and you can find more about it at this link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism

I love learning about all kinds of religions. Maybe I have the urge to "put together" a religion on my own, something I can follow. Maybe it is a passion, like photography. Besides I like to read philosophy and I think it helps develop a "sense of world", a better understanding of how the things surround us connect to us.

[Thorned Rose 0]

1. Thorne Rose, I will not debate you here. Enough our debate in ID vs Evolution thread and you didn't answer my questions.

I haven't answered any yet because I've been away from the forums for the last two days.

 

2. But here I only show your contradictions and mistakes to learn from. But first, I am not extreme Christian and have no activities in breaching or any relegional service. But I understand good about the three Abrahamic relegion: Juadism, Christianity and Islam.

I never said you were an extremist and I'm not sure what you mean by breaching relegional service. I can't say as I know much about modern Judaism but we used to have a Muslem living with us, whom i got on with just fine. We used to have interesting debates and he certainly left here with a much more open mind.

 

3. you said that you don't intend to insults but in fact you put poisons everywhere as saying :

QUOTE

I believe what I know to be true in my heart not what some narrow minded sexist and ignorant man purported to be true 2000 years ago

If you read what I said carefully you would realise that was not an insult but meant in the literal sense - the men that wrote the Bible were not open to any other ideas but their own, meaning they were narrow minded, sexist because they believed that women were second class citizens and ignorant because their knowledge of the world was very small - limited to their town/village and those they visited. They didn't have T.V, Radio, Internet,documentaries etc to keep them up to play on current affairs and the like.

 

Who were polite and who were arrogant? !

I fail to see how I have been arrogant. I deal in reality and facts of reality is what I have pointed out. The only time I have ever said anything about my beliefs is when I said that I believe what I know to be true in my heart... I never once said that people should believe me because I believe in myself, nor have I resorted to veiled insults.

 

4. It is safe and not dangerous to attack Christianity. But try to say any bad about Jews or Moslem's. In the first case you will be accused that you are anti--Semite's and in the second one your blood will be allowed as it happened in Holland and Denmark or before the Pakistani author who are in hidings in

 

If you knew my Mum, you wouldn't be calling it safe. And as this is a religious debate I am not just talking about Christians but ALL religions. Religions have been the cause of many ills in the world, including Christianity. As I said, we had a muslem living with us, I debated with him, he hasn't blown our house up if that is what you are implying as dangerous.

 

5. It is error to think bible is 2000 year old. It is about 2000 since Jesus was born. The bible since Moses.

I didn't say that the Bible was 2000 years old. I said that the story of Giglamesh was around at least 1000 years before the Bible i.e before the Old Testament, obviously even longer for the New Testament.

 

6. In same time you believe in Evolution which Darwin put and nobody give us one example of its correctness. If you nare student you can quote in exams what they said in classes without believing . leave the matter to latter age and not reject the others sites. They willn react togother and produce your final belief.

7. You believe what they said about (the origin of stars and planets which amount to anything more than "fairy tales and imagination.

This belongs in the ID vs Evolution thread.

 

8. You quoted from Thomas Gospel and leave the same from other Gospel away. By the way this ... These other Gospel are not complete and has no contradictions with what we have. Christianity in India was breached by St Thomas. They are Orthodox and they not use Thomas Gospel.

What's your point? I quoted the Gospel of St Thomas because it goes against organised religion. It was something that Jesus was supposed to have said. Many have concluded that the Gospel of St Thomas has not been put into the Bible for this reason - because it would damage the Church.

 

9. To be fair and just you have to listen to both site. Don't go to site of Atheism or ant-christian and expect to hear from the truth. Go to other site and read what hey say and respond.

I never rely on one source - sources can be wrong - I use many to 1. verify correct information and 2. get the bigger picture. I have seen both sides and come to a logical conclusion.

 

10. Translation of Bible from Greek or Hebrews are not easy tasks. Different translation are different ... It is forbidden the translation. But in the Internet age, there are Koran in English on the net. They claim that it is the meaning and not translation [i don't know the difference]

Errors are errors. Just as they have recently discovered (by scientists using modern technology, not religious people) that the number of the beast is not 666 but actually 616. Look at any Bible in the world currently in print and for the last how many hundreds of years and it will say 666. How is that not an error? And if a mistake like that can be so prevalent, what other mistakes are there that are as yet undiscovered?!

 

11. I don't know from where you come that bible consider bat a bird. Here in Australia, we call bat flying fox. Anyhow the bible is not scientific book and these classification of animal are recently established. Also the flatness of the earth is not in the bible but the opposite there. It was problem of the culture in one period of time.

Here is the Bible passage that says Bats are birds. I know what a Flying Fox is and they are a type of bat. And that is exactly right - the Bible is not a scientific book and thus cannot be relied upon as an accurate representation of how the world was, is and should be. The flatness of the earth is related as at the time, that is what people believed at the time and those who opposed the idea were persecuted as heretics. My point was that the men that wrote the Bible knew what they know of the world at that time. Mnay things in the Bible have now been proven wrong and thus the Bible has errors and misinformation and cannot be relied upon as accurate.

 

12. If the story in Gilgamesh is similar to what in Bible then there is no problem. They have to coincident if they speak about the same period or events.

They don't coincide. If the story of Gigamesh were true then the world would have been flooded before Moses even existed.

 

We know exactly the history since Jesus. The Gospel tell us the tree from Jesus until David and the old testament tell us the tree from David to Abraham then from Abraham to Adam. That including Babylon tower and Noah Ark stories.

No we don't. Archaelogists can't confirm that Jesus even existed. While there are various documents from other places that are suggestive, they are in no way conclusive. The New Testament is the only document that says anything obvious about him. History is also full of holes e.g. Nanking - The Japanese butchering of Nanking: The Chinese say it happened obviously, but the Japanese completely deny that their soldiers ever raped, pillaged, butchered etc. Who's right? This is an example of recent historical inaccuracy. Who can say for sure then, what happened 1500, 1000, 500 etc years ago.

 

Christians suppose to humble and loves everyone even their enemies

Yes, they are. That doen't mean that they always follow that.

 

Now when we say Catholic we mean "Roman Catholic" church. But Catholic in ... pilars for the Christianity. I am not sure to what branches Armenian and Georgian churches belong to [because they were in former Soviet Union but they are Orthodox].

Perhaps I should have clarified and been more specific but this is long enough as it is and I am too tired to repeat myself in greater depth. My point was however that most version of the Bible were reproduced by corrupt priests who could have changed as they saw fit. The fact that so many versions of the Bible exist, is testament to the fact that it has been changed.

 

Ago, I am gald to see that you are thinking and feeling for yourself. When i was young I enjoyed sitting in Church when it was empty. But there are many places like this - Mosques, Synagogues, Temples, Parks, Beaches, Libraries, your own bedroom. You don't need a place of religious worship to feel this.

 

My whole point is that you do not need religion (any religion, not just Christianity) to be a good person, live a good life, be close to God and go to heaven. Most religious people will call that heresy but I will let you in on something - I have died and come back and I saw the other side - I didn't go to hell and most people don't. If most religions were correct then I should have. Oh, and animals do have souls.

 

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[ago 0]

Errors are errors. Just as they have recently discovered (by scientists using modern technology, not religious people) that the number of the beast is not 666 but actually 616. Look at any Bible in the world currently in print and for the last how many hundreds of years and it will say 666. How is that not an error? And if a mistake like that can be so prevalent, what other mistakes are there that are as yet undiscovered?!

About the Bible - I ask myself how many of you commenting on it have ever heard of the septuagint?

 

"Mistakes" are not a matter of saying a word in place of another. Not even saying a whole paragraph in place of another. The mistakes and the lack of fundamental understanding of the Old Testament from the loss of the original old testament texts. They were written in the basic syntactical structures of the OLD hebrew language. One language - one undestanding of the world. Translation is NOT possible - and I tell you this as a quite qualified man in semiotics. But when the jews realized that they were forgetting the old hebrew, 72 wise men gathered and translated the bible to old greek. That was the septuagint. The main thing is to understand that it-is-not-the-same. It may contain the same words, but the DEEP meaning is lost. It still can be used as moral guidance, but the real meaning of the words of Adonai (the term Yahve meaning God was only used in the new testament), the so to speak metaphysical content was lost.

 

(They are some who seek it, founding science of hermeneutics, but there is a long way. Too long.)

 

So I wouldn't say we should make a debate on the old testament - manily that even the Catholic church uses it ONLY as moral guidance.

 

About the new testament - there is something fishy going on ( - that was actually funny, the fish being the symbol of christians in the Roman era). Jesus Christ is an avatar of God. A profet, so to speak. But in other religions - in almost ALL the religions which have at least transcendent God - there is also an avatar, resembling Jesus very closely. Mohhamed for Allah for example. And if we are already here, we can see a lot of concordances between the greek mythology, the norse mythology and the old testament.

 

One truth exists. Does it worth searching for? I cannot reply but with a quote from the Majjhimanikaya (I,426):

 

Suppose a man were wounded by an arrow thickly smeared with poison, and his friends and companions brought a surgeon to treat him.

 

The man would say, I will not let the surgeon pull out the arrow until I know the name and the clan of the man who wounded me, whether the bow that wounded me was a longbow or a crossbow, whether the arrow that wounded me was hoof-tipped or curved or barbed.

 

This kind of man would die before knowing all these things. And these things would not help him anyway.

 

Reply to Thorned Rose on the subject of meditation >>

 

Yes, Mosques, Synagogues, Temples would be nice - if they were. Here I have only a Catholic cathedral (in which nobody goes...) and Orthodox basilicas. And I don't like to go there because you have no means to sit down. I mean I would sit on the ground, but because of the people going there on masses all stand on foot, the carpets are dirty and smell bad. Parks, Beaches, Libraries are not good, I prefer to be alone. And not even a walk in the forest doesn't suit me. But this is how I am

 

Religion isn't a must, I agree - but don't you think that all manifestation of man with relation to God is "religion"? Religion doesn't have to be organised (and this is what I think you ment) and I totally agree with you.

 

To be a good man or not? There are many directions one can follow. Ethics. My favourite branch of philosophy The Christian ethics are just one. It's kind of funny that the teachings in this direction differ between the old and new testament Personally - in a question of ethics I go with Nietzsche's opinion. (NO, he was not an atheist).

 

(Animals have souls? )

[kasm 0]

I haven't answered any yet because I've been away from the forums for the last two days.

 

I never said you were an extremist and I'm not sure what you mean by breaching relegional service. I can't say as I know much about modern Judaism but we used to have a Muslem living with us, whom i got on with just fine. We used to have interesting debates and he certainly left here with a much more open mind.

 

If you read what I said carefully you would realise that was not an insult but meant in the literal sense - the men that wrote the Bible were not open to any other ideas but their own, meaning they were narrow minded, sexist because they believed that women were second class citizens and ignorant because their knowledge of the world was very small - limited to their town/village and those they visited. They didn't have T.V, Radio, Internet,documentaries etc to keep them up to play on current affairs and the like.

 

I fail to see how I have been arrogant. I deal in reality and facts of reality is what I have pointed out.

 

I didn't say that the Bible was 2000 years old.

 

What's your point? I quoted the Gospel of St Thomas because it goes against organised religion. It was something that Jesus was supposed to have said. Many have concluded that the Gospel of St Thomas has not been put into the Bible for this reason - because it would damage the Church.

 

My point was that the men that wrote the Bible knew what they know of the world at that time.

 

Mnay things in the Bible have now been proven wrong and thus the

Bible has errors and misinformation and cannot be relied upon as accurate.

....

No we don't. Archaelogists can't confirm that Jesus even existed.

...

My point was however that most version of the Bible were reproduced by corrupt priests who could have changed as they saw fit. The fact that so many versions of the Bible exist, is testament to the fact that it has been changed.

 

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1. Why we need Archaeologists to tell that Jesus even existed?. If we know the places he was, the places the family lived in their escape to Egypt as refugee. St Helene found the cross. Archeaeologists needed when the cities were covered by sands and dust by the times. Do you need Archaeologist to prove how your grand grand parents come to Newzlend?.Do we need Archaeologist to tell when Captain Cook came to Australia or they discovered America. There is contious history and generation tell the next generation. Historian recorded the events. Jesus was after Alexander. Did you disbelieve the existence of Alexander too. Do my ancestors [the ancient Egyptians] who was martyred by Romans hundred years after Jesus reseruction, were martyred in vain for believing in ghost and non existent person. There were millions was martyred and their bones were on the deserts years until St Helene [The mother of Empror Constantine] came and buried them in places are now churches and monasteries in Egypt. Do we buried a fake St Marks in Alexandria and they stole his head to Italy and build church in his name there but Pope Rome returned it back 40 years ago , all of these were lies and we are stupid and few in their places can deny all things very easy. The interesting thing that you deny Jesus existence but you quoted from St Thomas Gospel where the first sentence in this Gospel is : Thomas1

These are the sayings which the living Jesus spoke and which Didymos Judas Thomas wrote down

2. The organization that prepared to you the list of contradictions in Bible [which is not correct with open minded attitude] succeeded in mislead people as you to loose their faith. They put the big title " Pat is not bird" and list from birds allowed to eat and not to eat. I myself don't give attention and skimming that chapter when read the Bible. Pat, the flying fox in Australia [is flying mammal]. But for non scientific people Pat is bird especially 4000 years ago. It is not big deal and is not error. Good communication must occured by language understandable to the receiver. The classification of animal world as you know has done few hundred. years ago and still has exceptions like Platypus echidna [egg-laying mammals like birds]., I remember when one day I was teaching the computer to be intelligent. I taught him that if the living thing is laying eggs then it is reptile or insect or bird. If it is fly then it is bird or insect.....but I conflicted with Platypus and echidna because they are egg-laying mammal. .Then I have to give more condition that is : and if It gives milk to young then it is Platypus or echidna then we need another thing to distinguish between them [like what they eat].

 

Pat [is flying animal]. But for non scientific people is bird .

 

3. I didn't say that you can't be friend to Moslem's and Jews, the opposite I said that I helped them to understand their own religion when I was in Russia 5 years and don't use this as opportunity to teach them Christianity. I am also has good Moslem's friends and Jews in everywhere. I said you can not criticized them as you do now with Christian. They defend their belief strongly to the degree [Jihad war] and I admire them for that because I am criticizing the Christian for their passive mode.

 

4. I don't say that any debate with the minority Muslim in your country will result of blowing you. There is different between debate and attack. Can you tell your Moslem's friend why their prophet was married to more than 4 [4 in the same time]. How he in his 6o of ages was married a child 13 years old?. Again I am not intervene in their religion and never I questioned them that except inside me but I said for you that is not safe. The Pakistani writer "Solman Rushdie" is in hiding 20 years because he implicitly mentioned that in his book. Do you heard about killing a producer of a film in Holland because the film was considered insult to the Islam. Do you hear what is going on the news now days against Denmark because one journalist draw something considered insult abut the Moslem's Prophet "Mohamed" . You know the western countries protect freedom of speech. They can not prevent that as you freely attacked Moses, Jesus or his disciples by "sexist" " narrow minded" But Danish goods will be blockeded for that by many Islamic countries [i admired them]. They also asked UN and European countries to make laws prohibited insulting religious feeling. [i repeat I understand and admire their defense ).

 

5. I know the logic of the English language well and I was teaching computers to be intelligent. Called the leaders of a person's religion by the worlds "sexist" , "narrow minded" are insult . [see cometolife post too and other]

 

6. You are free to criticized but not with extreme words which are not true and can not measured as "sexist "narrow minded". "No priesthood for women" is not mean they are second class. Motherhood is not second class but is for people who is really narrow minded. My mother and my sisters are not second class because they were not allowed to be in army, police or priesthood. The biological and period cycle and motherhood function don't make them suitable to these jobs as "priesthood" or "army" [specially the old type of army], police or firemen or hunting animal or fishing in dangerous seas[ not as a Hopis nowdays] . But teaching and nursing, doctors are very suitable to female. In some countries they are 70% or more. In the nature you can see the role of Lion and Lionesses. The role of Queen bee and the male or worker bee [ in your opinion they are poor in second place].

 

7. Do you know in Judaism that the priesthood were only allowed to people from certain tribe from the 12 tribes. Jews hasn't objection and call God or Moses "narrow minded" and it is discrimination. God not give this tribe lands as the others.

 

8. Everyone is in his/her mind that he/she "deal in reality and facts " and "I believe what I know to be true in my heart". If you think that you are the only one who think that then you are arrogant. [search the meaning of it in dictionary]

 

9. I don't against quoting from St Tomas Gospel but questing using this incpmplete gospel [114 verses only] while the same can be find is in the other 4 complete Gospels which reflect how the others are direct you -

 

10. Why you believe the story of Giglameshand and not what was in the Bible if it different and if they are similar [not mean exactly the same] then there are no problem..

 

11. Then we come to

I have died and come back and I saw the other side -

I didn't go to hell . What that mean . Did u have accident and korma. ?

that is not death but as usual you have concluded other things.

 

12. I am accurate when I said that you said the bible 2000 years old. how you interpret your say:

I believe what I know to be true in my heart not what some narrow minded sexist and ignorant man purported to be true 2000 years ago.

13. You have some posting after my posting questioning yours in the Intelligent Design vs Evolution . Also you have posting here in the period you said you was absent. Anyhow until now I didn't receive the answers there.

 

14. I didn't say u said that I am extremist but Ii gave that in advance to avoid thinking that.

 

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[alfredglenstein 0]

God is the Intelligence who created all, It isn't a "God of ...".

It's more like God made man, man made war, war kills man.

 

The Jesus-part is kind of a paradox, or so it seems...

Jesus did say "I and my Father are one" wich refers to what I believe that we are all part of God. Children of God.

"my Father is greater than I."... God will always be the Intelligence wich created us and we will never be as good, caring, intelligent, spiritual, wise and so on as God.

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Not to insult, but I don't think you read my post all the way through. All you did was essentially reinforce (though with better wording) ideas I already agreed with. Those were "contradictions" that I myself disagreed with.

 

What about the King Soloman one?

[kasm 0]

hahahahaahhaahahahaahahaahahahaahahahahaahahaahaahahaahahahahaha HA

yea right buddy.

 

You are forcing your beliefs on to atheists, atheists arnt forcing theirs onto your. Every day in school i am force to stand for a pledge that includes  under god. Yet u dont have to stand for one that says without god.

 

Christany does NO good name 5 things positive. Go ahead ill name 5 negative

1. crusades

2. status of non involment during the holocaust

3. Destroying the culture of native americans

4. Witch Trails

5. sex scandils

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1. The first sentences is nonsense and violate the rule.

 

2. It is your fault that you go to religious school and then complain. You are lucky that you in country with options. Why you don't go to public schools where are forbidden to say anything about religion. Leave Christian schools to those who choose to be taught religion. If your parents who enforce you go to Christiann schools, then blame them not the christian.

 

3. It is unfair to criticize Crusades for protecting Christian Churches to not becomes mosques as happened in Egypt, Syria and Turkeys.

 

4. It is unfair to criticize Christian from not protrcting Jews in War II if they couldn't protect their catholic people in France and Poland or Orthodox people in Bulgaria, Romania, Ukrania and Russia . But I know many stories for people and churches in Poland and others countries about how they hided Jews but in their limits of ability.

 

5. Sex scandals is not relating to Christian only. What did Turk in Balkan, Armenia, Bulgaria and Romania...

 

6. Yes British and Frensh occupation did nasty things but is not in the name of Christianity. But they brought some civilization but is not the case of Turkish that brought nothing but bad characters. Arabic, Turkish invasion destroyed other nations too. We lost the source of knowledge that is the Library of Alexandria in results of it [Doesn't matter who burned it]. Before that what did Alexander, Roman Empire, Persian Empire , Jenkis Khan to the world?

[HoRuS 0]

Not to insult, but I don't think you read my post all the way through. All you did was essentially reinforce (though with better wording) ideas I already agreed with. Those were "contradictions" that I myself disagreed with.

 

What about the King Soloman one?

225359[/snapback]

haha that was the point of my post, to reinforce those ideas.

Am somewhat confused about the Solomon one...

 

How many stalls and horsemen?

 

KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

 

CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

in the KI1 4:26 he had forty thousand stalls of horses meant for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

In de CH2 9:25 he had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots.

Seems more like a story of a battle to me. I think I need to search the book for the surrounding context.

[heavensounds 0]

Hehe...this is so funny..this religion wars and everybody is unhappy!What about NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO A RELIGION BUT TO ITS TEACHINGS AND NOT BE ATTACHED TO EITHER OF THEM??keep positive thougts..

[BOAW 0]

wut i think is funny about all these diff religions is how poeple say in their own religion is that theyre religion is right n all the others r wrong n belivee in the wrong things...its so stupid...its lke every1 that believes in a religion is wrong...EVERYBODY IS WRONG lol cuz ne1 thats not the in the religion that an individual is in theyre gunna tell u that their religion is the right way to go n that the other religions believe in the wrong things....i dont get it...my mom is sortve lke thathope u guys know to i mean heh

[kasm 0]

wut i think is funny about all these diff religions is how poeple say in their own religion is that theyre religion is right n all the others r wrong n belivee in the wrong things...its so stupid...its lke every1 that believes in a religion is wrong...EVERYBODY IS WRONG lol cuz ne1 thats not the in the religion that an individual is in theyre gunna tell u that their religion is the right way to go n that the other religions believe in the wrong things....i dont get it...my mom is sortve lke that

hope u guys know to i mean heh

225425[/snapback]

1. Of course everyone think that his relegion is the right otherwise he will convert to another belief. That is why it is called belief.

 

2. But that not mean you attack the others and accuses them by stupidity nor attack the icons of their belief.

 

3. But if somebody criticize your belief or their keys, you have the right to respond but with civilized arguement and debated polite discussion manner.

 

4. This is cover anything hasn't prove that it is fact like Evolution as well as Creation and Intelligence Design.

[Thorned Rose 0]

Kasm, you are obviously not reading what I am writing properly and I am tired of wasting my time on someone who can't be bothered reading something properly and then turns around and quotes me incorrectly. If you are going to enter into a debate, read carefully what someone writes and make sure you understand them properly before you mouth off about something you quite obviously don't understand or have enough knowledge on. My husband who studied history at university finds your knowledge of historical events laughable and points out to me all the time, inconsistencies and errors in your arguements. As I've said, I want an intelligent debate and that can't happen with someone who doesn't read posts properly and can't give intelligent replies. But I cannot let the following go unanswered:

 

6. You are free to criticized but not with extreme words which are not true and can not measured as "sexist "narrow minded". "No priesthood for women" is not mean they are second class. Motherhood is not second class but is for people who is really narrow minded. My mother and my sisters are not second class because they were not allowed to be in army, police or priesthood. The biological and period cycle and motherhood function don't make them suitable to these jobs as "priesthood" or "army" [specially the old type of army], police or firemen or hunting animal or fishing in dangerous seas[ not as a Hopis nowdays] . But teaching and nursing, doctors are very suitable to female. In some countries they are 70% or more. In the nature you can see the role of Lion and Lionesses. The role of Queen bee and the male or worker bee in your opinion they are poor in second place.

Once again I will reiterate - I DO NOT mean sexist and narrow minded as insults - they are meant in the LITERAL SENSE:

 

From Wikipedia:

Sexism is commonly considered to be discrimination against people based on their sex rather than their individual merits, but can also refer to any and all differentiations based on sex. Sexism can refer to three subtly different beliefs or attitudes:

The belief that one sex is superior to the other.

The belief that men and women are very different and that this should be strongly reflected in society, language, the right to have sex, and the law.

It can also refer to simple hatred of women (misogyny) or hatred of men (misandry).

Also from Wikipedia:

A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own. The origin of the word in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of religious hypocrite, especially a woman. Today, it is considered a synonym of closed-minded.

Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to his or her prejudices even when these prejudices are challenged or proven to be false, often advocating and defending these prejudices in a rude and intolerant manner. Forms of bigotry may have a related ideology or worldview such as racism, religion, Materialism, nationalism, Rationalism, or homophobia.

So you see, I mean literal. I was never referring to just priesthood, I was referring to all aspects of their lives. And I most certainly resent your statement that women are more suited to jobs like teaching etc, as would any woman or intelligent man for that matter. Obviously you have a very small grasp of human psychology and physiology. Not to mention by the very Wikipedia definitions above, you are sexist and narrow-minded. I can see why you think they aren't sexist when you are yourself. I had to laugh when in one statement you say that women aren't suited to hunting and then in the next used an example of lionesses which of course do most of the hunting in a pride. Bees are not humans and do not have the same societal structure so can not be compared.

As for dying, yes I mean literally - No heart beat and all of that.

Anyway, as you can not post intelligent replies, I am going to henceforth not be bothered with you and would encourage others to do the same to preserve the sanity of all.

 

As for everyone else, my whole point would be (as I've said numerous times before), you do not need religion to believe in God or Jesus or anything else you want to believe in. Believe in what is good and what YOU want to (not what someone else tells you to) and live a good life. Love & Life is my motto - Live love and love life.

[Joshua 0]

First of all... Christianity isn't a religion. If it was, you could be a Christian just by calling yourself one. Thing is, the Bible doesn't say you become a Christian by calling yourself one. It doesn't say you become a Christian by being a good person. It doesn't say you become a Christian by some church accepting you as a member. It doesn't say you become a Christian by living a moral life and doing the right thing. It doesn't say you become a Christian by saying some special prayer or performing some set of rituals.

In short, you become a Christian by first ADMITTING you AREN'T perfect, and that you do have a problem. NO ONE can become a Christian without FIRST having their trust in themselves BROKEN. As Oscar Wildes puts it in The Ballad of Reading Gaol:

How else may man make straight his plan and cleanse his soul from sin?How else but through a broken heart can the Lord Christ enter in?

Christianity's claim for exclusive salvation doesn't lie in the religion that follows it. Christianity says that only one Person can save a soul, and that Person is Jesus Christ. One doesn't find salvation apart from Him, in short, the saving of a soul comes from knowing Jesus Christ, and getting in a relationship with Him.

As Jesus says in Luke 13, unless we repent, we will all likewise perish. Christianity is a heart transaction where you confess your sins to Jesus, ask Him to gain you forgiveness through His death and resurrection on the cross, and to come into your life and make you a new person. You can say all those words but what matters is that they come from the heart, not the words themselves. As 1 Samuel 16:7 says, God doesn't see like men do but looks on the heart.

It was the religious, the Pharisees, who were most berated by Jesus. They considered themselves righteous and thus were farther then anyone else from God. God wants us broken, to realize we need Him and His payment on the cross for our sins. He wants us to live constantly in love for other people and to forgive one another, knowing what awful, undeserving sinners we ourselves are.

And herein lies my point. Christianity says that a heart transaction will produce a changed life, given time. Now, one is saved through getting in that right relationship with God through Jesus, meaning faith, or a heart transaction.

We can never earn our way to Heaven, and our good works will never be good enough to remove our sins. It's like baking a cake and burning it badly. You can cover it with frosting all you want, but people still won't want it because it's burned. All it's good for is to be destroyed. The only thing to do is to make a new cake.

That's why Jesus says in John 3 that we must be born again to see the kingdom of God. Jesus didn't come to make us better people, but to make us new people. It means our old nature has to be done away with, so that we are inwardly changed. And this inward change will produce an outward change.

Jesus says in John 13:35 that His true disciples are known by their love for others. And as Romans 13:10 says, love fulfils all God's commandments because it doesn't harm others. Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40 that the greatest commandment is to love God, and the 2nd to love others as ourselves. All other commandments rest on these 2.

So a true Christian is known by the love that proceeds from that inward heart transaction, and as a result, they do not harm others. Make no mistake, true Christianity means complete and utter pacifism. If you don't believe me, read Matthew 5:38-48 and Romans 12:17-21.

I'm not going to deny that the Crusades hurt a lot of innocent people. I'm not going to deny that WWII was an awful event. I'm not going to deny that the Inquisition was a horrible, inexcusable time in history.

I'm not going to deny that some awful things have been done in the name of Christianity. What I AM denying is that they are Christian acts, and that Christians did them. A true Christian is KNOWN BY THEIR LOVE FOR OTHERS, and LOVE DOESN'T HARM OTHERS.

Now I'm sure some will say, "Well, the Catholic Church was behind a lot of this stuff and still says the witch trials and other stuff are alright. If the Catholic Church wasn't Christian, who were the true Christians then?"

My quick response is that the true Christians were not the ones doing the persecuting, but the ones who were being persecuted. Try reading up on the Anabaptists, they were persecuted for some 1900 years by both Protestants and Catholics for "heresies" like claiming the Bible as their sole rule of faith, teaching complete pacifism, living communally and sharing all things with each other, giving to whoever asked for anything, and teaching salvation through that inner faith that resulted in an outward change of life, a life of love and service for others.

Many were killed in the Inquisition. Many were burned at the stake by Catholocism just like "witches", not to mention being crucified, beheaded, and rounded up from one end of the continent to the other for mass executions. To see more on who the Anabaptists really were, you can go here.

Hitler killed Christians who hid Jews in their homes. And even today Christians who are living for Jesus are persecuted all around the world. To see more, you can go to Persecution.com. I think you might be surprised to see just how much really goes on every day that doesn't get press because the world doesn't care about what happens to Christians.

[kasm 0]

Kasm, you are obviously not reading what I am writing properly and I am tired of wasting my time on someone who can't be bothered reading something properly and then turns around and quotes me incorrectly. If you are going to enter into a debate, read carefully what someone writes and make sure you understand them properly before you mouth off about something you quite obviously don't understand or have enough knowledge on.

 

My husband who studied history at university finds your knowledge of historical events laughable and points out to me all the time, inconsistencies and errors in your arguements. As I've said, I want an intelligent debate and that can't happen with someone who doesn't read posts properly and can't give intelligent replies. But I cannot let the following go unanswered:

 

Once again I will reiterate - I DO NOT mean sexist and narrow minded as insults - they are meant in the LITERAL SENSE: So you see, I mean literal. I was never referring to just priesthood, I was referring to all aspects of their lives. And I most certainly resent your statement that women are more suited to jobs like teaching etc, as would any woman or intelligent man for that matter. Obviously you have a very small grasp of human psychology and physiology. Not to mention by the very Wikipedia definitions above, you are sexist and narrow-minded. I can see why you think they aren't sexist when you are yourself. I had to laugh when in one statement you say that women aren't suited to hunting and then in the next used an example of lionesses which of course do most of the hunting in a pride. Bees are not humans and do not have the same societal structure so can not be compared.

 

As for dying, yes I mean literally - No heart beat and all of that.

 

Anyway, as you can not post intelligent replies, I am going to henceforth not be bothered with you and would encourage others to do the same to preserve the sanity of all.

 

As for everyone else, my whole point would be (as I've said numerous times before), you do not need religion to believe in God or Jesus or anything else you want to believe in. Believe in what is good and what YOU want to (not what someone else tells you to) and live a good life. Love & Life is my motto - Live love and love life.

1. The opposite, I read and investigate every words you or other write so I could reply to every point. You who owe answesr for many questions in this Forum and the other Forum.

 

2. It is not enough to say about your training historian husband laugh about my arguments, inconsistencies and errors. You have to point and to tell us what his objection and laughing points that I can either be convinced of my mistakes or replied then he may correct himself. Otherwise you have to not mention him. It will be considered spam to tell something not relevant or falsiable. By the way studying history for few hours for 3-4 years or even getting PH.D in history in narrow point does not mean he knows better than any person studied history in school then abreast himself everyday for every event in the world through books, newspaper, magazine, TV and radios. History is for all. I proud to tell you even I am scientist the history of most of African, Asian countries, their struggles for independence, the old names of these countries. This beside US, European, Australian Histories. Plus every General securities of UN and the majors resolution of UN and the weakness of some words that could be interpreted different and happened as I thought then.

 

3. Where your refering to "to all aspects of their lives" . Only what you said on 20 January:

I believe what I know to be true in my heart not what some narrow minded sexist and ignorant man purported to be true 2000 years ago. That statement is not intended to be insults, the words I used are in context. The men that wrote the bible only knew what was true to them and their very small amount of knowledge of the world. They didn't know about the greater world then, just where they lived and what they heard and nowhere the amount that people know today. They were biased because of their own life experiences and culture (in this case very sexist and superior).

You left us to guess to whom you refer and why you said that. So I analysised what Jesus or his disciples denied for women. I didn't find any except priesthood [including discipleship]. So I gave my explanation to that and explained that is not mean inequalities. See the equalty principal in the following their sayings:

Corinthians 7:4 - The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

 

Matthew 19:5 - And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

 

4. I know exactly what you mean by sexist and I don't need a dictionary definition. If you read my reply and my examples you will realize that it was as the dictionary definition. Why you said bees is not human but in the same time replied on Lion ease hunting and didn't say that she is not human either. My example to show you that the in nature [not religion] there are distinction but not mean female has second degree. This is the maximum of respect. As I respect my mothers and sisters. In human I gave example that teacher, doctor and nurses are more female than male. In Russia, the medicine institutes has 90% females. Males doesn't complain [in general because there is exception]. You call them "narrow minded" "sexist" even you said that the knowledge theen was tiny comparing what we have now.

 

5. Your "sexist" definition as defined in Wikipedia definitions (the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit i.e changable by visitors) is not aplicalable to them. The knowledge we have now (thank God I have got a lot of them.) was not necessary to them to write the bible. There is history, laws and rules . True Loves, honesty, chastity, purity, scincere marriage don't need computers and its software, Statistical methods, Gravity, Electromagnetism, Relativity theories, Thermodynamics laws, Atomic theory, Genetics, DNA even they are approved.. Morever the debated non approved hypothesis of Darwin or Big bang are not necessary.at all to them to know..The bible is not science book.

 

6- You can not unified all people by force in one group as you think. Every group that believe in the same ideas and belief is classified as re legion or churches or sect or cult. Christianity divided to Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Protestants have many hundreds groups and everyday a new group or church be established. Orthodox divided to Greek, Coptic, Russian, Armenian, Assyrian,.. etc. etc. Moslem's divided to Shiite, Sunni, Wahhabi,...Judaism have orthodox and others. [i hope your historian husband agree and will not laugh]. If you decide to not belong to any that is your right and nobody enforce you. So respect the others choice and don't think you are the best thinker.

 

7. Your story of dying show you didn't die truely so your surprise that you didn't go to Hell IS INVALID.

 

8. I hope you don't response to these because I wish it is my final reply to yours in this forum. I owe reply in another forum. Even though you didn't answered my questions there.God forgive you for your many insults [i read every word]. Thank God for my patience with you . You speak about intelligence even there is very big gap between me and you. I am who put myself in this place so as Chhristian I say "God forgive you" [ visit my post]

 

9. Usually I don't use scripture in my postings but I do now to see what these [narrow minded sixist in your mind] people wrote about the "LOVE" which is your motto as you said : [using King James version: http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/ ]

Matthew 5:44 - But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

Matthew 5:46 - For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

 

Matthew 19:19 - Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

Matthew 22:39 - And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

Luke 6:27 - But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

 

Luke 6:32 - For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

 

Luke 6:35 - But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

 

John 15:17 - These things I command you, that ye love one another.

 

Romans 12:10 - Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

 

Romans 13:8 - Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

 

Romans 13:9 - For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Galatians 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

Ephesians 4:16 - From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

 

Ephesians 5:28 - So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself

 

Ephesians 5:33 - Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

 

Philippians 4:8 - Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

 

Colossians 3:19 - Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.

 

1 Timothy 6:10 - For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

 

1 Timothy 6:11 - But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

 

2 Timothy 1:7 - For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

2 Timothy 3:2 - For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

 

2 Timothy 3:4 - Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

 

Titus 2:4 - That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children

1 John 3:14 - We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death

1 John 3:17 - But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

1 John 3:18 - My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

 

1 John 4:8 - He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love

1 John 4:20 - If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

[htdefiant 0]

Having a religion is a right. Nothing is right or wrong. No one should force a religion on anyone. And, in terms of BCE and BC, BC is not offensive to any religion or lack of one. I personally don't think the Common Era began at Jesus' death, but hey, its better then realating all my dates to the birth of a figure that only 1/3 of the world believes in as their "savior"