Honesty Rocks! truth rules.

My Idea To Keep Antimatter In A Matter Container using fans in all directions to keep it in place.

HOME      >>       Science and Technology

brainless

I do watch stark trek but don't remember hearing that what episodes was that match or in what series was that mention as well?

 

I don't remember exactly either, I guess it was in one of the TNG episodes (since DS9 only rarely involved warp cores, compared to other series, the Defiant was an almost flawless --though uncomfortable-- spaceship :() and the Voyager-environment allowed for way more interesting stories than mere basic federal technology (species unknown to the Federation until then developed way more interesting stuff; in the final episodes of Voyager we even get to see one of the 6 known Borg transwarp hubs :lol:)...

 

...anyways, back to topic:

 

I'll just quote the Wikipedia article on the War Drive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_drive):

 

Warp theory and technology

 

For a more in-depth discussion of warp propulsion systems, refer to the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual by Rick Sternbach and Michael Okuda. Chapter 5, "Warp Propulsion Systems", discusses the following topics:

 

* Warp field theory and application, including warp measurement, velocities, and limits.

* Matter-antimatter reaction assembly, including reactant injectors, magnetic constriction segments, reaction chamber, the role of dilithium, and power transfer conduits.

* Warp field nacelles, including plasma injection system, warp field coils, and warp propulsive effect.

* Antimatter storage and transfer, warp propulsion system fuel supply, Bussard ramjet fuel replenishment, and onboard antimatter generation

* Engineering operations and safety, emergency shutdown procedures, and catastrophic emergency procedures

 

However, the shows often contradicted both the TNG and DS9 technical manuals.

 

[...]

 

Mechanics

 

Warp cores utilize a matter-antimatter reaction that is regulated by dilithium crystals. When matter and antimatter are exposed, they annihilate each other upon contact. This annihilation releases colossal amounts of energy. Dilithium crystals are used to regulate the reaction because they are nonreactive to anti-matter when bombarded with high levels of radiation. The matter used in the reaction is usually deuterium, a form of hydrogen, and the antimatter is usually antideuterium, the corresponding antimatter to deuterium. The matter and anti-matter reaction inside the dilithium matrix is usually referred to as the matter-antimatter reaction assembly (MARA). The MARA is surrounded by a magnetic field to prevent the highly reactive anti-matter from escaping the assembly. The energy is then transferred into a highly energetic form of plasma called warp plasma.

 

This warp plasma then travels to the warp nacelles via magnetic conduits. [...]

 

Warp cores can use other sources of energy besides a MARA, such as an artificial wormhole. On starships, warp cores are often the main source of energy for primary systems in addition to propulsion.

 

Use

 

The warp core is one possible way to generate enough power for lightspeed travel. In case the ship needs to be destroyed, the warp core can become a powerful bomb.

 

[...]

--well, parts of the warp core is quite well explained. To quote a remark of one of the producers of the show when asked how the Heisenberg Compensator [a device used to allow beaming] works simply said "Quite well. Thanks." :(--


matak

that article in wiki is just lot's of use of big words. i don't see how that explains anything possibly know to human nature.although we would like it otherwise our biomechanical enviroment just isn't setup for space enviroment. research has been done but that doesn't change simple fact that we are just humans living on earth -- on earth rules.so why all of that talk about matter- antimatter.well that is probably beacouse we hope one of us is going to be "Da Vinci" of our time. Basicly all of us figure that if we at least don't think about that "crazy star trek talk" that something like that sometimes might not egzist.well i'm one of those who thinks that talking is important so keep up.about matter and antimater.. i guess it all has to be in right balance, and i hope by future testing of that kind we don't blow up our planet.. well at least we''ll all been living in space --at least for a while :lol:


the_aggie10

if an explosion occurs when anti-matter and matter meet then what is anti-matter kept in? isnt everything made up of matter?...this is so confusing...someone go ahead a make me feel stupid and answer it


jlhaslip

then what is anti-matter kept in?

That is exactly the purpose of this debate / Topic.

the_aggie10

uhh....oh. i thought he was saying he had his idea and i was giving a counter-example....just ignore me...


Saint_Michael

But the thing though brainless warp drive is made up and anything that has to do with it is as well. Although I don't doubt their is some actual science in what is being mention about warp drive. It's just impractical to be considered any real ration thought.Although it would take many experiements and billions of dollars Do you think we would in the any near future see this actually happen?


Tailson

Well, according to the Guinness book of Records 2003, the biggest producer of anti-matter is a laboratory in Batavia, Illinois, USA, and produces around 100 billion protons of anti-matter every hour. This adds up to to about 1 billionth of a gram every year.

 

At that rate of production, we won't have a significant amount of anti-matter to store. Not for a very long time. I don't think we're going to see an anti-matter storage device for hundreds of years.


tractor

First all fans would hae to be at the same speed witch if one breaks the whole thing messes up and kaboom. And how would you get the matter into the container? Good idea but i don't think it would work. And space has nothing for fans to blow.


matak

I draw something like this... (more for ftp test...)

 

Posted Image

 

What next :lol:


salamangkero

Your diagram is pretty... creative but I doubt it would actually work. For one, I've already posted a lot of times here that using fans will not work mainly because the "force" exerted by fans is primarily an illusion from a stream of air, which is matter, by the way. Fans will not work in vacuum, if you also need to know.

 

Another thing is that in your diagram, there are lots of opportunities for matter to annihilate antimatter. One if from the streams of air created by the fans. Another is from the "gates" of the container holding matter. Lastly, the fans themselves are made of matter.

 

Really, from what I've read in this thread so far, I can only believe using EM fields (because they're already using such a methodology) and gravity fields (because even is it's just in theory, it is sufficiently plausible)

 

Hmmn, any other fresh ideas? :lol:


brainless

ok, I am the bad guy who first referenced Star Trek this time. Yes, lots of Star Trek stuff is fiction, some of it is missing every grain of scientific base (take the gravity generation on every spaceship. Even if everything else has been blown apart and the team has to wear space suits, gravity still works; AFAIK every answer to how these generators work is the same as for the Heisenberg Compensator: "they work fine, thanks for asking").on the other hand, there are things which have been just as fictional when they were first used in Star Trek (take the communicators ... they're just about what we have in mobile phones now...) - and with this hint, I'll stop this (at least in this thread since it's leading way off topic......and I am aware of the fact that the warp drive is mostly made up (Dilithium is Lithium with an appended Di-) - the interesting thing, however, is the antimatter-transportation and getting energy out of it (lots of)...salamangkero: The force exerted by fans is not an illusion (but the idea that you usually feel the force exerted by a fan is wrong unless you stick a finger into it :lol:); the force exerted by the fan makes the air move and if it hits something (e.g. your face), you feel the force exerted by the air on your face (if you move against the wind, the air might also feel the force exerted by your body :()


matak

well i made that drawing more for fun then from real. i just wanted to draw a basic of engine sistem. and that is one container of matter in which is dropped antimatter or vice-vresa...idea with fans is just idea.. of course i guess it can't work at this time beacouse if it could i guess we would have matter-antimatter combustion engines allready and all of that Irak and oil situation in world would become meaningless...well the reason that i mention that is beacouse i think that it is the worst problem in our technology upgrades.Let's say that last 15 years US goverment instead of investing in Army and Defense sistem they invested in science and technology that computers that we know for now would be 10 times better. (Faster more secure and user friendly)Imagine that 100 mlrd US dollars spended on year for weapons development would be spended on matter antimatter research? I think that we would have spaceships now that would be on Beta level of light-speed colonial ships that could travel to other galaxies in search for other "human friendly planets".I bet it would be better instead that dollar spent on 1 bullet was spent on 1 post in research forums, which would be great source of information.But that is dreamworld for now.I belive that when time comes some genius guy like Nikola Tesla, A. Einstein, Nobel or somebody like them would come up and say a formula or a combination of known human reactions which could provide us with infinate energy necessary for our survival.Until then we will just have topics like this and drawings like mine that prove our inferiorship to genius ideas and "perpetum mobile" solutions...I'm sorry that this post is a bit depressive but i'm thinking about the solution for quite a while and the more i think, the more i learn i realize how much that is waste of time. Beacouse for each question that i got answer to i get 10 more questions with that answer. How much can one take?Well i'll learn when i can and i'll draw images like that while i can, and if that by all means even gives me some credits then i guess the world isn't that bad at all :lol:


richierich1m

i think the idea is technically wrong ,let me explain whyair itself is a matter so antimatter would react with air and would get itself destroyed and generate harmful radiation which would destroy the space shuttlei have a theory which would might work for using antimatter as boosters to space shuttleas far as i know the antimatter repels electromagnets ,so if antimatter are enclosed in vaccum and surrounded by electromagnets at the base of space shuttle ,and a small passage which would allow antimatter to react with air and cause the neseccary booster for the space shuttle,this theory is just a basic idea,but may things has to be considered here like how the electromagnets should be kept at the start of passage etc.but antimatter is no doubt the future energy station only a 1gm of antimatter power is capable of running the power of newyork city for a week , i think that said all about antimatter :lol::(


joedoe4_

I think it 'might' work....you know what that has a high rate of it workingonly problem is, is the area where the antimatter will be react strong enough?


Cerebral Stasis

wasn't Nibbler's species just producing black matter? ("it's so heavy that one tea spoon of it weighs as much as 10 000 tea spoons of it")

 

No, it was dark matter.

laforgej

I have a few things to clear up for some people who have been asking questions about anti-matter. When I read "Angles and Daemons" I was interested and spend some time researching antimatter. Antimatter is in effect the very simular to matter... You have have the full range of elements with all the same properties as matter as long as they do not come in contact with matter. Most of the time when you are talking about antimatter you are talking about anti-hydrogen when is the simplest element to create, although in theory it is possible to create all of the elements. It takes a massive amount of energy to create anti-matter, so unless we could find a natural source of antimatter (not likely in this galaxy), antimatter has no use for energy production. In my mind the only possible use for antimatter would be in space. My theory (100's of years off) involves a massive space installation that orbits the sun (as close as it can be without burning up). The installation would have a field of solar collectors which would harvest the suns every and store it in the form of antimatter. Electro Magnetic fields would be used to suspend the antimatter in a vacuum (which is not hard to get in space) And the EM field would not have to be as strong as on earth because there would be no gravity. After the antimatter is produced it could be used for various energy needs although you would most likely have to keep it in space due to the fact that it is harder to contain in earths gravity and atmosphere. If you can manipulate EM field with precision, a antimatter energy reactor would not be too hard to create... Everything would have to be in a vacuum and magnetic fields would move a small amount of matter and a small amount of antimatter to the same place and allow them to react. The problem is that the EM field have to be extremely accurate because antimatter holds so much energy that allowing to much of it into the reaction chamber at once would cause an explosion that the reaction chamber could not contain.And if you can not control antimatter this well, as long as you can contain it, it would make a hell of a bomb!!!Can anyone poke holes in my theories? I was writing this past my bedtime. lol


jlhaslip

And the EM field would not have to be as strong as on earth because there would be no gravity.

The Sun has a Gravitational force which is greater than Earth's, so the closer you get to the Sun, the stronger its Gravitational Force becomes. If I remember correctly, the gravitational attraction between two objects is a function of their mass and the distance between the objects. If the Space Station which the Anti-matter is generated from is closer to the Sun than we are, the effect of gravity would react stronger as you approach the Sun, yes?

laforgej

The Sun has a Gravitational force which is greater than Earth's, so the closer you get to the Sun, the stronger its Gravitational Force becomes. If I remember correctly, the gravitational attraction between two objects is a function of their mass and the distance between the objects. If the Space Station which the Anti-matter is generated from is closer to the Sun than we are, the effect of gravity would react stronger as you approach the Sun, yes?


Sorry I just took it to be assumed that the station is orbiting the sun and not in a fixed position

In an orbit gravity is countered by centrifugal force. So in effect things are weightless. If it were not this way we would be lighter in the day and heavier at night because of the sun gravity, plus the earth would by pulled into the sun.


*edit I looked it up the correct term is centripetal force not centrifugal force. They are almost the same thing

galexcd

hmmmmm.... cylinder container.... hmmmmm..... suspended..... hmmmm sounds like somebody has read the da vinci code to me


Jimmy

Im trying to figure out how they would be able to ignite the matter/antine engine without blowing it up. I would ponder a guess that heat would just make it worse. Although that does bring up a futurama epsiode using anti-matter droppings from nibble to fire up the engine and what not.

Very good question, but I think it is possible to ignite without blowing it all up.

remember, we are working on a 1/3 of an atom or whatever scale so its very very small...

 

I think it would be possible to purposely make a small amount of antimatter at a time come into a small amount of air (or some other form of matter) that is disposable. This would happen in the "engine" of said vehicle, possibly in a vacuum, where antimatter and air can be injected to meet up.

This would result in annhialation in the "engine" space, that with certain special (heat resisting etc.) materials could be channeled to propel the ship or vehicle.

 

The size of the explosion can be controlled (with difficulty using a variable amount of antimatter or varying the amount of matter (e.g. gas/air in there) - not sure how you would vary it without exposing it to matter again!!! possibly ~ very ~ strong magnetic fields and some way to stop suppply being given after a couple of units of the stuff has gone into the "engine")

 

The biggest problem is simply containing antimatter, as as is the main point of this thread, when antimatter comes into contact with any form of matter it annhialates and there is a huge explosion. Maybe this could be done by somehow storing the antimatter in a vaccum, inside of which some techy has found a way to "bend" the space time (can be done using very large masses or other methods) - effectively making the space inside a really vast area -where the antimatter is in the middle - and keep it there!!.

This is also my response to the question posed in this topic: bend space time and store the antimatter in a huge vacuum, but this would mean that vacuum wouldn't take up too much space!