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Evolution Or God... How were we created?


iGuest

Didn't they once say that the Apes we came from were actually once fishes and small reptiles of the Dinosaurs? I remember people saying that too. So now are we apes, fishes, or dinosaurs type? Things are so crazy when you think about this. It's just too far to prove anything. Might as well say we're snails too because we have boogers O_o


miCRoSCoPiC^eaRthLinG

Didn't they once say that the Apes we came from were actually once fishes and small reptiles of the Dinosaurs?  I remember people saying that too.  So now are we apes, fishes, or dinosaurs type?  Things are so crazy when you think about this.  It's just too far to prove anything.  Might as well say we're snails too because we have boogers O_o

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Not really - if you look at evolution, these apes, snails, dinosaurs or whatever bigger lifeform didn't just appear overnight. It all began with microscopic living organisms, which clumped together as colonies giving rise to tissue masses - which in turn gave shape to the larger organisms. So whatever animal you see on this planet - all have come from a common descent. This very fact should be enough to claim that our journey actually began with whatever was there before fishes/dinosaurs/apes.


xboxrulz1405241485

nice debate, I like this fury debate, yet I want to slip a REAL scenario. All of us know that in Christianity God or Jesus is all forgiving and such right? Ok, this is my experience for ever trying to believe in Christianity. In the beginning of October, this year; I needed a ride to my old school for a reunion, but the cab driver was a bit nut (as I thought, don't know if that's true or not), he tried to convert me to Christianity, had some good debates as I am an atheist (and no, atheism is NOT a religion, if it was, it will contradict and according to the Law of Contradiction [or whatever it was called] you can't have something that is and isn't at the same time). Yet, I eased up and tried this Christianity thingy, I felt like brainwashed though. I did the first prayer with accepting Jesus as my saviour or something. A week later, I had a negative effect, I did poorly on tests, got the flu, sleepy all the time, couldn't concentrate, my marks dipped a bit. So, I said that I'm ditching this because it seems like Atheism is the best and that I couldn't rely on this figure. I have to rely on my old believes that has been proven stable and prosperous.Ok, before people jump on me, I began to think there is this figure but it's one that I can't rely on. It's relying on a piece of paper as a bridge and crossing over it. Of course, it will break and you'll fall into the water.This is just my experience, and I'm still an atheist.Also, I'm not a Communist. Yet, some of my classmates think so because I'm Chinese.....xboxrulz


CarolinaBlues

Personally, I believe it was created by God. I am a Chritian, and that is what the Bible says, and my faith believes it.


CroSpartacus

I believe in God and the bible. I think people underestimate the bible as it can be very informative and infact accurate. I don't take the bible 100% literally such as maybe the 7 Day part didn't mean the 7 day 24 Hour period. Christ speaked in many parables and that's the way the bible was written. It's still a magnificent peace of work with stories and literature. Also the beautiful psalms it contains.


warbird1405241485

I think the bible is just something humans imaged because people didn't understand the wonders of mother nature. Why couldn't we just been created out of nothing? Because we don't understand how you can making something from nothing? If you asked let's say thousand years ago someone what lighting was they would say for sure that it had something to do with god, one way or another. Maybe in another thousand years people understand how we have been created. Maybe even earlier. Don't say something isn't possible because it isn't proofed scientific, only say it's impossible when it's proofed, and for so far as I know nobody proofed that we weren't created by evolution.-=jeroen=-


JUDGE_RELIC

I think the problem is that the ones who believe in christ do not want the theory of evolution to be taught in schools and the ones who believe in evolution don't want religion taught in schools, currently the winners are the evolutionists, but only because of the seperation of church and state issue. Some people are doing anything they can to keep god out of our schools...Me, personally, I do believe in god but on the same token, I do believe evolution occured. So, keep in mind the word of god is not racists against anything, his word is not one of hate or discord, so when his messenger stands in front of you spewing out gods word, ensure it is that and not one of his own agenda.The problem with people is they blame god for the sickness a messenger spews out upon his flock, and never the messenger.Believe in both, the bible is a book of stories that gives us direction and is not to be taken literally. Who knows when god came to mankind... who cares? He's here now... that's what counts.


mitchellmckain

I think the problem is that the ones who believe in christ do not want the theory of evolution to be taught in schools and the ones who believe in evolution don't want religion taught in schools, currently the winners are the evolutionists, but only because of the seperation of church and state issue. Some people are doing anything they can to keep god out of our schools...
Me, personally, I do believe in god but on the same token, I do believe evolution occured. So, keep in mind the word of god is not racists against anything, his word is not one of hate or discord, so when his messenger stands in front of you spewing out gods word, ensure it is that and not one of his own agenda.

The problem with people is they blame god for the sickness a messenger spews out upon his flock, and never the messenger.

Believe in both, the bible is a book of stories that gives us direction and is not to be taken literally. Who knows when god came to mankind... who cares? He's here now... that's what counts.


I am not opposed in principle to the teaching of religion in school. It is an important part of human life and I am all in favor of children being more informed so that they can make their own decisions regarding it. But obviously this will never happen in the public schools, because there are far too many fanatical opinions in regards to religion and until different churches and religion can at least recognize the value of each other, then there obviously can be no official place for it in the public schools. Otherwise it is inevitable that this will just be used by the dominant religion in the area to supress religious freedom by putting pressure on students in favor of their religion.

As a direct consequence "Creation science" or "Intellegent design" has no place in the schools because it is religion and not science. I don't think science is everything, in fact, science looks at the world in a very restricted fashion, and people who try to make it the answer to everything are making a religion out of science, and when they do that they aren't doing science any more than the Creation scientists are doing science. Both are rhetoric, and confusing rhetoric with science is something to which I am very opposed.

I am not saying that none of the research involved is valid, although its use in the rhetoric of "Creation science" is not making any of this easy to recognize as such. But Christian churches and organizations have to butt out of science and to drop the pretense that their conclusions are in anyway scientific. That won't get them their ridiculous political agenda which amounts to intolerance of science.

But truth be told I think this all derives from Christian laziness and complacency. They want to railroad their children into a Christian way of life rather than make the effort required to make their case with their children in a free thinking environment. Frankly, I think that if they cannot make the case of their Christian way of life to their children, it is because their life is only superficially Christian anyway. A superficially Christian life like this is a lie and a deceit and the children won't won't buy it because they are too close the parents to be fooled.

The reaction of fundamentalist christians against science is a tragedy. And it is a reflection of the tendency of Western society (espcially the U.S.) to seek simple-minded solutions to everything. The result is that our society swings to one extreme and then another, when these simple-minded solutions fail. However, the current dangerous and frightening swing to the right that we are currently suffering (in the US) is the natural consequence of the simple-minded solution of liberals to trash and dismiss every tradition of our past without any attempt at compromise with a large portion of our population. If we do not learn again to compromise as we once were able in the past then the US will fall as these swings to extremes eventually tear the democracy (which is far more fragile than most imagine) apart. No one thought that a maniac like Hitler could gain power in Germany, but he did in just the kind of right wing swing that the US is now experiencing.

Vicious_AD

I am an agnostic, and believe that they can coexist. Ever read the book "Inherit The wind"? It speaks of the scopes monkey trial and is based upon it. I think it'd be silly to say "god sent two people down and they populated the entire earth" because there is both not enough time between now and the said time that "adam and eve" where created to constitute an entire species' population, and it's completely unfeasible to begin with. I personally think that Catholicism is nothing more than a cult, and that christianity is nothing more than a fairy-tale. I believe that if there is in fact, a god of any sort, that he created the life force of the tiny organisms that soon became man. We actually have scientific /proof/ that there where cavemen and that there where other primates that resemble man that no longer exist, and can actually /trace/ man's evolution, so I think that holding onto any beliefs of adam and eve are nothing more then denial and the thought that if they adapt their religion to reality that they will be smote or something else equally distasteful. There has never been any proof of any of the supernatural events that occurred in the bible, but there has been proof to debunk them. what does that tell you? I mean it's obvious that people in biblical times where not as wise as we are now for lack of technology and time on earth, but also the fact that most prevailing religions have now been long abandon because their followers have wizened up. We now know that Zeus does not cause the lighting, but positively charged ions do. We also know that it is medically impossible for a virgin to give birth, no matter how hard she tries, but no one wants to think their religion is silly because it's all they have to hold onto. It's supposed to be for a since of comfort, but many take it to far (no difference between extremists like Bin Laden and the Spanish Inquisition). Of course I am no more all-kknowing than any priest that claims to be. so I accept that I could be mistaken, and that all this none sense about two people somehow populating the entire world in 4,000 years without managing to have an entire brood of deformed babies, and somehow managing to get their babies to the other continents long after Pangea and long before the invention of boats, and somehow being able to live long enough to teach these babies anything when the average life expectancy of somone in ancient greece was 30 years, and somehow managing to survive nakid in weather climates far worse than those of today among beasts far more savage and plentiful than those fo today, without the adaptations that they would need to survive in that climate (like, oh, let's say, muscular physiques of apes, bodies covered in fur like apes, aposable toes like apes, and the bodies and minds of apes *hint hint*), could in fact be somehow true. I highly doubt it, but I'm not unreasonable.SCIENCE AND PROOF > FAITH AND IGNORANCE


xboxrulz1405241485

one thing I don't like is that people who were brought up to believe a religion. I think it's choice. Let the person decide for him/herself and not choose it for him/her.Well, it's all my opinion of course B)xboxrulz


Vicious_AD

I don't believe in any religion, as it is impossible that a 'god' could exist. However, the theory of evolution doesn't answer all questions; why are we here in the first place.
The only way we can ever know is if we know how the universe was made, and the big bang isn't correct (where was the matter in the first place).

I think you're mistaken on a few counts. There is no more proof that there is not a god than there is that there is a god. You are atheist, and I am agnostic, so our theories are not too different, but you should consider that in order to know for sure that there is nothing more than what is in front of your eyes, then like you said, you'd need to know the way the universe was created, which you do not. The big bang theory is a basis, not an absolute. It does not stop at what they have so far, but mankind must solve enigmas like their reason for existing one step at a time. The matter could have been in a fourth dimension, for all we know.There could be any number of explanations for it, and we just have not discovered them because we are but humans. so before assuming something is /not/ correct, you should be a little bit more open minded. There is a difference between skepticism and stubbornness. Stubbornness is the reason no one wants to admit their religion could possibly be wrong in the first place. so you may as well believe in a religion if you emit the same mode of mentality. I'm not criticizing, just sharing views

presto

it is impossible that a 'god' could exist

I would be interested to know how you came to that conclusion.

I guess I believe in guided evolution. God created all the processes and interactions that we call 'science', it only makes since to me that he would work through his creation. So, imo, God created the process of evolution with the intention that human beings would be the result. I see no reason why science and religion can't work hand in hand.

mitchellmckain

one thing I don't like is that people who were brought up to believe a religion. I think it's choice. Let the person decide for him/herself and not choose it for him/her.
Well, it's all my opinion of course

xboxrulz


Man do I agree with you. I am a born again Christian but this is another issue on which I have a parting of ways with my bretheren. I believe that learning to think for oneself and make well balance decisions for your own life is a much more important thing to teach your children than trying to insure that your children make the "right" choice. It is why the fact that me and my wife belong to different religions does not bother me, or even the fact that my wife takes the children to her church. I think a wide exposure to different points of view can only help my sons make better and more informed choices of their own.

CaptainRon

I would like to bring to the notice of all Christians here, that the word Man comes from the Hindu mythological character 'Manu', who is known to be the saviour of the world. In Hindi, we call man 'Manav'.As all of you know that most European languages are derived from the Indo-Aryan language Sanskrit, indicating that the Indians and the Europeans were one tribe living in central asia, europe.All the core english/german words are derived from Sanskrit. Sanskrit and Greek seem to come from the same parent source.Also Hinduim being the oldest religion on the face of this earth, I find it appropriate to suggest the Hindu version of the begining of Mankind.Mankind was created by God, and in general no particular people started it. The evolution of Mankind is divided in Yuga's. After each Yuga, there is an Armaggedon, after which the mankind ends and all traces of it are erased. A new session then commences. There are four yuga's that continue in cycle. The Satya yuga, Dwapar yuga, Treta yuga, and the Kali Yuga.Kali Yuga is what is going on currently, and is calculated to end on 21 Dec 2012 (just calculated on the basis of end of Treta Yuga).satya yuga sees the best of mankind with zero vice.in the next yuga vice is introduced and man loses moral values.then vice gains more and more popularity in the next yuga.in Kaliyuga, vice is at its highest, and Lord Shiva shall himself come on earth to finally end the civilization (in form of natural calamity and disaster).You may research more on this for your knowledge. I would also like to mention that as per the Nasa research, our common ancestorial language, Sanskrit, is as of now the world's most well formed language. It is the world's ONLY unambiguous grammar, perfectly suitable for making a Natural Language Processor. Also, it has been quoted as a marvel of human brain by most linguists.So if those people who spoke this language drew out these beliefs, I think its worht knowing about.


saga

I would like to bring to the notice of all Christians here, that the word Man comes from the Hindu mythological character 'Manu', who is known to be the saviour of the world. In Hindi, we call man 'Manav'.
As all of you know that most European languages are derived from the Indo-Aryan language Sanskrit, indicating that the Indians and the Europeans were one tribe living in central asia, europe.
All the core english/german words are derived from Sanskrit. Sanskrit and Greek seem to come from the same parent source.

Also Hinduim being the oldest religion on the face of this earth, I find it appropriate to suggest the Hindu version of the begining of Mankind.

Mankind was created by God, and in general no particular people started it. The evolution of Mankind is divided in Yuga's. After each Yuga, there is an Armaggedon, after which the mankind ends and all traces of it are erased. A new session then commences. There are four yuga's that continue in cycle. The Satya yuga, Dwapar yuga, Treta yuga, and the Kali Yuga.
Kali Yuga is what is going on currently, and is calculated to end on 21 Dec 2012 (just calculated on the basis of end of Treta Yuga).

satya yuga sees the best of mankind with zero vice.
in the next yuga vice is introduced and man loses moral values.
then vice gains more and more popularity in the next yuga.
in Kaliyuga, vice is at its highest, and Lord Shiva shall himself come on earth to finally end the civilization (in form of natural calamity and disaster).
You may research more on this for your knowledge. I would also like to mention that as per the Nasa research, our common ancestorial language, Sanskrit, is as of now the world's most well formed language. It is the world's ONLY unambiguous grammar, perfectly suitable for making a Natural Language Processor. Also, it has been quoted as a marvel of human brain by most linguists.
So if those people who spoke this language drew out these beliefs, I think its worht knowing about.


although i dont believe in an almighty god.. i find yours very interesting. The interesting part is god was created by man. in these sense god is just an overseer of man. Unlike the other gods, the christians and muslims, their god has been the tool for oppression. History dictates that religion has been a tool for oppression be it christian or muslims. If you will argue with me then i suggest you should study the history of man and how religion affected it. Like for example in the communal society of pre-historic man, the most powerful person in their small community is the priest and whatever their priest says they follow for it is the word of a higher being. Its the same today its just more complicated thats why the vatican can deny it. But look who owns thousands of hectares of land, the church, and the peasant? they don't have lands. the clergy man already took it. i think im getting out of point.. bye...

CaptainRon

although i dont believe in an almighty god.. i find yours very interesting. The interesting part is god was created by man. in these sense god is just an overseer of man. Unlike the other gods, the christians and muslims, their god has been the tool for oppression. History dictates that religion has been a tool for oppression be it christian or muslims. If you will argue with me then i suggest you should study the history of man and how religion affected it. Like for example in the communal society of pre-historic man, the most powerful person in their small community is the priest and whatever their priest says they follow for it is the word of a higher being. Its the same today its just more complicated thats why the vatican can deny it. But look who owns thousands of hectares of land, the church, and the peasant? they don't have lands. the clergy man already took it. i think im getting out of point.. bye...


Well, yes, you do make a point with the oppression concept. But let me ask you one simple question:
How do you explain the universe? Science will fail to explain that for the next ten thousand years...

Every religion has the concept of heaven and hell, and thousands of people have had life after death experiences, so lets follow the theory the way it has been followed for thousands of years.

The western world discards the non-linear evolution concept and believes that mankind evolved into a scientific society only centuries ago. But matter of factly its absolutely not true as per my beliefs (and many other's).
Life form has been extinguished by the use of advanced weaponry during the war of 'Mahabharata', an Indian epic. You can google "Mahabharata Nuclear Weapons" to find some interesting links. I will quote a well known excerpt which is widely available in science literature:

Interestingly, Manhattan Project chief scientist Dr J. Robert Oppenheimer was known to be familiar with ancient Sanskrit literature. In an interview conducted after he watched the first atomic test, he quoted from the Bhagavad Gita: "'Now I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds.' I suppose we all felt that way."
When asked in an interview at Rochester University seven years after the Alamogordo nuclear test whether that was the first atomic bomb ever to be detonated, his reply was, "Well, yes, in modern history."

The Ancient Indian Vimanas are also good to read about. http://ufo.whipnet.org/creation/ancient.aircraft/india.html
You will find many links and entry is also on Wikipedia.

Now what I want to read for sure is about the Nine Unknown Men and their purpose... may be it helps in something about the oppression theory.

twitch

Firstly, this is the type of topic that in 99% of all cases ends up the in flaming of other people. So, please be careful and considerate when making your post and don't deamonise others for their beliefs, whether it is in an omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent being, or whether it is down to science.===================Whether evolution or God, I just don't understand the concept of why. I know that sounds stupid and immature, but shouldn't we concentrate on the short-term and what is here. Rather than speculating on something that is truly out of our comprehensible reach at this point in our life.


pyost

People will never be able to agree on how did we become what we are now. There is always someone whose opinion is different. I think there is no such thing as God, but I don't insult people who do. It is in fact good to have something to believe in, someone you can blame for everything But I prefer saying that the Big Bang wazs the beginning of everything and that there weren't any forbidden apples etc.


illini319

I think you're mistaken on a few counts. There is no more proof that there is not a god than there is that there is a god. You are atheist, and I am agnostic, so our theories are not too different, but you should consider that in order to know for sure that there is nothing more than what is in front of your eyes, then like you said, you'd need to know the way the universe was created, which you do not. The big bang theory is a basis, not an absolute. It does not stop at what they have so far, but mankind must solve enigmas like their reason for existing one step at a time. The matter could have been in a fourth dimension, for all we know.There could be any number of explanations for it, and we just have not discovered them because we are but humans. so before assuming something is /not/ correct, you should be a little bit more open minded. There is a difference between skepticism and stubbornness. Stubbornness is the reason no one wants to admit their religion could possibly be wrong in the first place. so you may as well believe in a religion if you emit the same mode of mentality. I'm not criticizing, just sharing views


well argued. I certainly agree with you on how many opposed to religion are as equally dogmatic about their position as the zealots they accuse. I'm not even sure how an atheist can look at themselves in the mirror and say, without a shred of doubt, that there is no God. That is as equally faith requiring as one who believes in a higher power. Perhaps they forget that absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence. In any case, it should be noted that whatever belief system you ascribe yourself to, you are bound to all its strengths and weaknesses. And as such, can only approach an approximation of truth.

linden1405241551

Okay, I think there is a lot of misunderstanding on the subject. Humans did not evolve from apes. Evolution states thats humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor. And evolution is not random, and it's not a mistake that just happens to work. Mutations that benefit that the organisms that have them are more likely to increase the likelihood of survival for those organisms. Increased survival allows for more reproductive opportunities, meaning more offspring. Natural selection is extremely picky, and most mutations do not result in new species. The creation of new species takes time and restrictions. As for the "link" between humans and apes, have you ever seen the skeleton of a prehistoric man? There was a skull found that supports the close relationship of humans and apes, but I honestly do not remember what the name of the skull was called. If I find it, I'll be sure to post it.

 

And for those who believe that humans could not be a result of evolution because God created man in his own image. Well that just makes us aliens. Which, if you think about it, explains a lot.



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