Jesus Christ: A Real Person Or A Psychedelic Mushroom?

[Entheone 0]

Hello everyone.

 

To begin with, I'm well aware that the subject of this post is unusually bizarre and extremely controversial, and so I'd like to stress the fact that it's definitely NOT my intention to offend anyone or put down anybody's religious beliefs. I'm merely trying to start a line of discussion that will hopefully be interesting to some of you. So there goes...

 

I recently heard about Professor John Rush's new book, Failed God: Fractured Myth in a Fragile World. In a (perhaps oversimplified) nutshell, this is a book about certain issues in Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and their relation to entheogenic and psychedelic plants and substances.

 

Entheogens and psychedelics are basically chemical compounds that are capable of inducing altered states of consciousness. Some people believe those states to be of some existential, personal, and/or mystical pertinence and import, while others maintain that those states and the experiences that they provoke or induce are nothing more than hallucinations which result from the chemical imbalance that these substances produce in brain chemistry. While shamans and spiritual leaders of places like Amazonia, Peru, Siberia, and Middle Africa use these compounds as spiritual aids and sacred medicines, most Western societies outlaw the use of these substances on the basis that they're harmful on both the personal and societal levels. Examples of those substances include Psilocine (the active form of Psilocybin, which can be found in magic mushrooms), Ayahuasca (an orally-active form of dimethyl-triptamine, or DMT), and even nicotine and caffeine to some degree.

 

But back to the book. Professor Rush holds to the very unorthodox opinion that Jesus Christ, the central figure of the Christian belief system, was not actually a real person. Of course, many people have proposed the same idea over the years, presenting certain arguments that the historical accounts of a man called Jesus are nothing more than fictional accounts to propound a certain ideology/religion for one reason or another. Rush's contention, however, is even more heretical than this. He argues that there is overwhelming proof that Jesus was an experience with the Amanita muscaria mushroom and other mind-altering substances, and not a living, breathing human being.

 

Such an idea may seem outwardly nonsensical, probably even comical to many people. The interesting thing is that, throughout his book, Professor Rush makes a compelling case for such a wild claim. He's done a lot of research on the subject and he presents a significant amount of historical, anthropological, and even artistic data in support of this idea.

 

I haven't read the book yet, so I can neither defend it nor reject it. The only things I know about its content are things I read in reviews and several online discussions. However, I've read a number of other books and papers that revolve around similar notions and hypotheses. I can't say that I'm entirely convinced, but I must also admit that they're not just interesting and amusing ideas to ponder, but the evidence for them seems to be growing.

 

So anyway, I was wondering if somebody has read this book or has come across a similar idea. If so, what do you think about it? Of course, I'm hoping that the discussion, should it gain any interest, be more than a simple snub. And I'll write more about the book and its arguments as soon as I get my hands on it.

 

Again, I'd like to repeat that I'm neither an advocate nor an opponent here â at least, not yet. I'm simply interested in a new idea that, even if proved completely wrong, may lead to some important consequences and/or contemplations.

 

 

General Book Description [Copied from Amazon.com]

 

On a 2001 trip to the cathedrals of Europe, anthropologist John Rush and his wife entered St. Markâs Basilica in Venice and encountered a mosaic depicting Jesus surrounded by mushrooms with an Amanita muscaria cap in his hand. Examining the space with new eyes, they discovered images of mushrooms and mind-altering plants all over the Basilica. Intrigued, Dr. Rush spent seven years researching and reflecting on the profound effects hallucinogens had on the founding of all three major Western religions. He concluded that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are political constructions evolving out of the use of not only Amanita muscaria, but a plethora of mind-altering substances.

 

Failed God: Fractured Myth in a Fragile World re-examines the scriptural stories of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as told in the Bible and Qurâan and reveals them as âconcocted mythical charters stemming from drug-induced romps with the super-natural.â Rush shows how mind-altering substances played an instrumental role in the birth and development of Western religions and explains how they contributed to reports of âpropheticâ experiences, including angry and disturbing messages from the divine. With chapters on Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, Rush fully addresses the effects of mind-altering substances on each tradition, convincingly discrediting the idea that they stem from actual human interaction with the divine. He also shows how an intoxicated and over-zealous Apostle Paul corrupted Jesusâs simple message of human decency, forming an oppressive religious system based on fear. In a thought-provoking conclusion, Rush asks how we can continue to attribute authority to traditions that were so clearly irrationally founded and incompatible with todayâs world.

[Animator 0]

I'm not saying whether the church has any more clue than your average street beggar.I'm not denying that my private life does not stack up to who I pretend to be in public.I'm not here to spend countless nonrefundable hours of my life debating who knows more than whoever else and I know that people read different things from the same sentence.But I do believe that Jesus is who the Bible says He is.

[laniczech 0]

faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen..... not dna proof... therefore id have to say that christ is a state of mind but i do not believe a drug induced state

[Entheone 0]

Whether I agree or disagree with what you guys are saying, that's something that I leave for later. But I was hoping for a discussion about the book and the points it contains

[Animator 0]

Well, that's not very fair is it?So you're keeping your opinion closed "for later" after I disclosed where I stood?Come to think of it, why would I spend $19.11 to give you the satisfaction of my reviewing a book which you yourself haven't read yet?

[yordan 10]

Unfortunately, I agree with Entheone, his topic is about the book, not about faith generally speaking, nor about knowing if you believe or not.So, let's talk about the book.Or let's shut up. I didn't read the book, so I shut up.

[darasen 0]

Fairly simply put Ther have been dozens upon dozens of people trying to say that Jesus never existed. Saying it was a mushroom trip is just another odd justification for making a book. History in general does not refute the existence of Jesus. You can argue if you believe he was the Son of God or the Messiah or rose from the dead, but to argue the existance is a non starter.

[Quatrux 4]

I've read the book, but a really long time ago and I don't really remember much of it, so I can't talk about it to much now, but there are some interesting facts I saw on Discovery channel, that not everything were put there, only the "good" things..Historians even found some bad translation in it, the amazing thing is that because a lots of years ago thy translated something badly from Mesopotamian, all that time people believed in the book in that word, even though it had a little bit another meaning, eh..in my opinion, it's just a book, but of course not an ordinary one, but written by us humans.

[mitchellmckain 0]

I would see this as an example of my maxim that people can and will believe just about anything, and most especially that they will find a reason to believe what they want to believe.This of course logically must be just as true of myself as anyone else.Now I think the majority of Christians would certainly object to the idea that Christianity does not depend on the veracity of historical claims. But I am not one of them. I have always considered the past to be as nearly as unknowable, in any absolute sense, as the future. That is, any assertion that one does know what has happened in the past alway requires some act of faith that what is recorded and reported is done so truthfully and without deception. But this does not bother me a great deal beause I very much believe in the power of stories to change and develop human nature for the better. I frankly find quite sufficient justification for belief in Christianity, in the power and effect of the story alone.However, regardless of this, it IS my plain and sincere judgment that the evidence very much supports that Jesus was not ony a real person but that the accounts of his life are fairly accurate, if somewhat subject to a bit of interpretation. It is also my honest judgement that efforts to argue that there was no such person are as motivated by an ideological agenda, just as are all that nonsense which calls itself "Creation science" and "Intellegent Design".But if this new indulgence in imaginative historical revisionism makes people feel more free to make up their own minds about what to believe in and what values to pursue in their life then I wish them well in their indulgence, with no condemnation at all. One more choice on the road where we search for the truth is only a challenge to make that adventure that much more interesting. This search for the truth is our adventure to experience for ourselves just as our life is our own to live, and both are meaningless if we let someone else do it for us.

Edited December 18, 2008 by mitchellmckain (see edit history)

[dougeg 0]

Psychedelic Mushroom lol sorry i am atisistlol good talk

[yordan 10]

Psychedelic Mushroom lol sorry i am atisistlol
good talk

Please read our forum rules. Atisist or whatever you are, you have to respect other people's way of thinking.

[fermin25 3]

Of course Jesus was a real person...How do you think he was? His existance is so important for the human race that our age is called "After Christ". He was a real man but in the same time he was a pure heart man that founded the cristianism and came to give hopes to the humans.The problem is there are so many fanatics think that Jesus is only a lie.You must go to the church, and read the bible...STOP READING THE DaVINCI CODE!!!Jesus is helping you now although you are not recognizing him...

[dangerdan 0]

I'm not sure either way whether he was real to be honest. What I particularly doubt though is his ability to perform miracles such as walk on water or turn water into wine. I think the Bible is meant allegorically or as a morality tale at best. Yeah, I am an atheist. My inclination is to say that he didn't exist, and if he did he was no more the "son of God" than you or I (and remember that I don't believe I am).

[yordan 10]

There are ways for walking on the water, especially for a guy able to use high-technology artifacts in these ancient times : fast-walking with helium-filled bubble shoes, water-beam turbines for instance, the noise is not important at this point because it will be seen as part of the miracle. The real problem is that no scientist is able to go back in time up to that moment in order to provide us reliable data.

[dangerdan 0]

yordan are you trying to imply that Jesus' was from a more technologically advanced era that we are currently at?I highly doubt Jesus' use of " fast-walking with helium-filled bubble shoes, water-beam turbines for instance" because for a start nobody knew what helium was, let alone that it rose above air and could be placed inside a "bubble shoe". Highly, highly infeasible if you ask me.