What Do You Want? Game Systems

[funnymonk 0]

Currently this year there has been much talk about an Xbox 360, PS3, and Revolution. These are all good but what is the best one? Personaly i would like to have the Revolution because all the nintendo games, but that also means not a lot of newer games for it. Xbox 360 look really cool, but costing $300 and $400 is just way to much. And the one you really want is the $400 version because of the wireless controllers the hard drive and all of that stuff. I haven't really heard anything about PS3. If anyone has any information about please post it here 'cause i am dying to know. Also post here and give your review on the Xbox 360, PS3, and/or Revolution.

[Moody 0]

If I buy one, it would be the XboX 360. I just love microsoft. I also heard that 360 and ps3 will support HDTV. It's a shame that this is very expensive here in Europe. I also like some nintendo games. But now i've played halo and some other xbox games, i wouldn't go for nintendo. It's also true that the consoles will be expensive. Indeed the 360, but you get free xbox live with it, that's something.

[wutske 0]

I'd love to have an XBOX360, PS3 and PSP, but I don't have the money and if I would have, I wouldn't feel like buying a game 2 times (on for console and one for PSP ).Somebody @ school has a PSP, and relay, the screen is BIG .I'm not for Nintendo (the type of games they have). I mean, Mario and all the cartoonesk games for children ? Nah, I prefer some good shooter , or something like GTA

[Sarah81 0]

Currently this year there has been much talk about an Xbox 360, PS3, and Revolution. These are all good but what is the best one? Personaly i would like to have the Revolution because all the nintendo games, but that also means not a lot of newer games for it. Xbox 360 look really cool, but costing $300 and $400 is just way to much. And the one you really want is the $400 version because of the wireless controllers the hard drive and all of that stuff. I haven't really heard anything about PS3. If anyone has any information about please post it here 'cause i am dying to know. Also post here and give your review on the Xbox 360, PS3, and/or Revolution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not the world's biggest gamer (most recent console in my apt. is an SNES, actually), but of my four sibs, three are really, really into it.

 

My sister is swearing by the new Nintendo system for certain titles (like Zelda).

My youngest brother is see-sawing between "Ah, I like the first XBox just fine," and "Wow, I wonder what the new one will do?"

The oldest brother is a die-hard PS2 fan, just as he was addicted to PS/PSOne. He's convinced that PS3 will be the best gaming system ever.

 

So ... if a bunch of people IN THE SAME HOUSEHOLD can't agree on which is the best ... that's saying something. Each of the systems obviously has some sort of advantage ... but we usually end up slowly acquiring all three of the new systems sometime after they come out (usually months and months later).

[m3ch4 0]

I'm not the world's biggest gamer (most recent console in my apt. is an SNES, actually), but of my four sibs, three are really, really into it.

 

My sister is swearing by the new Nintendo system for certain titles (like Zelda).

My youngest brother is see-sawing between "Ah, I like the first XBox just fine," and "Wow, I wonder what the new one will do?"

The oldest brother is a die-hard PS2 fan, just as he was addicted to PS/PSOne. He's convinced that PS3 will be the best gaming system ever.

 

So ... if a bunch of people IN THE SAME HOUSEHOLD can't agree on which is the best ... that's saying something. Each of the systems obviously has some sort of advantage ... but we usually end up slowly acquiring all three of the new systems sometime after they come out (usually months and months later).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HAHAHAHA!!! But it works out, becasue they'll each buy all the systems! You WIN =D LOL You get the best of all worlds!

 

Personally, I'm going to wait till all the consoles come out of the gate and see how they do, I don't think any of the games that first come out on the systems are going to be that great. (they don't tend to anyways...) plus everything is so expensive...I still have no idea how they can even OFFER these consoles at these prices...$300 bucks for a basic x360 system? wtf? It should be like $500 at least...but then no one would buy it...

 

anyways, yeah, so I'm waiting, probably the best thing to do would be stick to PC if you haven't been sucked into the money-eating-garbage-games vaccum that is the console market '''

[the empty calorie 0]

Oh wow...you guys must really be in the dark. PS3 will be the way to go. Why? IBM has their fingers in it....And while the xbox 360 will use IBM PowerPC technology, Sony will be using IBM's next-up technology, the Cell processor. Sony will definetely have the hardware advantage over the xbox 360. I'm not too sure about revolution, I haven't heard much about it. I'm not much of a gamer...but I am dying to see what exactly Cell can do...it's supposed to be the next technology that will change computers drastically different than as we know them now.

[szupie 0]

I like the ps2, so I think I will stick to the PS3 (If I could get it). I like the ps2 controller, I think it's the easiest to use. Also, I don't know why people say xbox has the best graphics. I don't think there is much difference, though I've only seen one game on xbox: halo.I want to try out the Revolution too. I want to see how good their controller is.

[Zony 0]

I want the PS3 when it comes, but personal I like my computer mutch better, more games and more things to do.

[kam1405241509 0]

Oh wow...you guys must really be in the dark. PS3 will be the way to go. Why? IBM has their fingers in it....And while the xbox 360 will use IBM PowerPC technology, Sony will be using IBM's next-up technology, the Cell processor. Sony will definetely have the hardware advantage over the xbox 360. I'm not too sure about revolution, I haven't heard much about it. I'm not much of a gamer...but I am dying to see what exactly Cell can do...it's supposed to be the next technology that will change computers drastically different than as we know them now.

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Sorry if this is a bit non-gamey/technical (I'm a programmer that write code that somewhat similar to games .. best if I don't explain it as it'd bore you guys to death!!), and if it's a bit negative (I'm naturally pessimistic & would love to be proven wrong!!). I used to love PC and console games ... but lately I've begun to prefer PC ones ... not sure why that is & I'm guessing maybe it's just me changing rather than there being any difference in the games themselves.

 

Everytime Sony comes out with a new console their hypemachine, er Marketing Dept, claim they are aiming for supercomputing-level entertainment. Logically there's no way a 500 Dollar console will ever compare to a 1000 node scientific cluster .. we saw that with the previous generation (hardly anyone created a supercomputer from a bunch of consoles .. a few groups tried but got lame performance cf a modern PC cluster)! Nowadays, even Cray are selling X86-PCs (albeit ones with many CPUs in them tied together in a very very fast custom network bus ... and with a bunch of other expensive custom chips specific for maths/physics ... similar to the VPU idea that Cray started but with more local memory, with full access to system memory and to some extent with greater programmability in the sort of maths that can be done).

 

The new way of thinking about computing isn't new at all. It is exactly the same design statement as the highly parallel vector processing Crays (and to some extent Alphas) of yesteryear, where there is no compromise on performance. This is a good thing if you want to max bang per buck. However Sony have severely limited the amount of cache available to each VPU. And developers are already complaining that this severely limits the real-world benches (theoretical vector throughput means nothing really .. but marketing like to brag these numbers when the real-world ones are so poor or unknown, as is the case for new architectures like Cell). Sony did give a really impressive demo of the Cell decoding a whole load of HDTV streams .. but this is a limited and repetitive set of tasks .. I'm more interested in games/graphics engines than movies! They gave a whole load of physics demos (the zillions of ducks in a bath tub), but it's nothing a dual-core PC or PC with a PPU couldn't do already. It doesn't seem to be that amazing to me.

 

As for the linking multiple Cells together .. you need a very fast network connection to sensibly packetise work for distributed Cells because of the latency issue in the case of a real-time game.

 

I've been looking at the discussions online from various developers who are using the Cell developer kit, and the Xbox 360 Apple-Mac dev kit .. and both seem to be pretty disappointed by the CPU performance. Summarising, they were hoping for enough CPU power to enable a giant leap in AI and physics ... but it turns out that nonlinear ordering of code isn't so easy on either platform ... it's difficult on PCs too BTW, so this isn't an anti console statement. It's just that Sony seems to think they can create a complex piece of hardware and expect developers to instantly make decent use out of it ... whilst MS do all they can to make it as easy as possible to develop for without losing any performance ... this generation will take a long time to make use of the CPU power.

 

MS's tools look much better .. actually it's pretty impressive. They help you port PC code to the XB360 and vice versa. The next Windows OS (Vista) will even have Xbox-Live and the USB2 Xbox-360 controller (BTW, I too love the PS2 controller .. but I think the PS3 controller looks far worse)! And they are going to encourage developers to develop/port games both ways (more than they had with XB1).

 

On the bright side, graphically they'll both look great .. they're pretty much equal really, Sony using NV and MS using ATI. I'm really looking forward to the next-gen Resident Evil, and even nextgen Sonic .. but I wouldn't buy either console just for those. You probably figured that I prefer PC games ... not just the usual FPSs, but I even like combat flight sims like LOMAC and I prefer racing sims like the PC's GTR to TOCA/GT4/Sega (although I still love to play the latter for the better graphics & more arcadey thrills)... so may be it's best that you guys don't really listen to my views, I think I'm a very different sort of gamer to the "norm"!

 

BTW, did you guys notice that the latest Sega arcade board ("Lindbergh") is a PC (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sega-unveils-lindbergh-games/1100-6132425/) with an Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU .. but they have DRM hardware so that you can't simply run arcade games on your PC .. yet!! I don't think the VF game looks that much better than VF4-evo, but the Sonic video looked pretty amazing. Basically if you remember the prerendered stuff on the Dreamcast game, it kinda looks like that (but is in real-time).

[Shadow X 0]

I'm really a Nintendo fan, I've got nearly all their Gameboy consoles and a Gamecube but I'm not that keen on the Nintendo Revoution really. I suppose the good thing about it is that it's unique and different from other consoles because of the controller design. I'm not going to get Sony Playstation Portable either because I'm not really much of a Sony PS fan and also the controller looks like an alien head! No, I think the best buy is the Microsoft X-box 360. It has lots of memory bandwidth, a large hard drive, lots of space and high resolution. it can also play DVD's, music, CDs and is compatible with X-box Live! Hope that helps people's decisions.

[gamerchick39 0]

I dont care what the specs and reviews say... im getting a friggin revolution.. ive been sold on it ever since it was first announced.. yes you guessed it.. im crazy bout some nintendo haha.. but man when they revealed that controller.. good gravy i have dreams bout playin it haha... revoltuion for me!!!

[kam1405241509 0]

I dont care what the specs and reviews say... im getting a friggin revolution.. ive been sold on it ever since it was first announced.. yes you guessed it.. im crazy bout some nintendo haha.. but man when they revealed that controller.. good gravy i have dreams bout playin it haha... revoltuion for me!!!

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I've got to admit I'm very impressed with Ninty's guts. These devices (positional sensing by use of MEMS inertial sensors) have been around for a few years .. I've used a Gyration mouse which was pretty naff (Ninty has invested in Gyration, and presumably get to use some of their IP). Recently these sensors have really improved, and are small enough to allow us to sense all 18 parameters needed to calculate the current sample's relative position (along with other sensors to correct for those sensors errors & to help the positional algorthms). This was a really bold move, from a company that has a history of spending time to do things right & often different to everyone else (Mario64's 3D world, yes I know Tomb Raider did too but they were 1st to show it so who knows!, the DS touchscreen, yes touchscreens have been around but not really used in games let alone an entire platform setup around it, windwaker's cell shading, gameboy, the NES & game&watch controllers, the low-cost FX chip idea thanks to Argonaut/starfox was also pretty innovative ... the list is endless).

 

I'm not a Ninty fan, in the sense that I don't buy/play console games, as I said before. But I do respect them, they obviously have some smart/bold people there that are happy to take calculated chances, to push the boundaries .. it's very similar to academic research, in a way ... but obviously harder in the sense that they've got to convince a huge audience ;-). I hope they continue as a hardware & software co, unlike Sega.

 

Sega's arcade platform is pretty interesting. It's a PC (intel CPU, Nvidia GPU). Presumably, if consoles weren't constrained financially, they would be similar to PCs too (like the original xbox). To me, the hardware isn't the important thing. It's the software. So if I was to buy a console, it'd be purely based on which platform had the most number of my fave games (in my case flight sims, race sims, graphic adventures, RTSs & FPS's!!).

 

ShadowX, I heard earlier that MS might make two versions of xbox360. One with a cabled controller and no HDD, and one with one wireless controller & an HDD. No idea if they still use a USB-like interface (so all your steering wheels, joysticks, etc work) ... it'd be annoying to have to sell/rebuy all this stuff, esp if you buy relatively expensive ones with decent forcefeedback controllers etc. Anyway, I presume you mean you are gonna get the higher-end version :-). But note that the current specs state that PS3 also has an HDD. In both cases they are detachable & they say end-user upgradeable (i.e. without having to open them up, figure out encryption/interfaces, etc & doing it unofficially)!

 

Also, the XB will probably use HD-DVD, and the PS3 will use BRD (blu-ray) ... there's still a battle between these formats, though both should be backwards compatible enough to play the older SD DVD movies & DVD/CD audio etc. The XB's ATI GPU should be similar to DX10-type specs so should be more programmable and have high-end pixel shader units. The PS's NV GPU is similar in performance to two current high-end GFs. That too is impressive. I think both have their advantages, both they are pretty much similar! Honestly, I think in terms of AI/CPU and graphics/GPU (and physics) they are pretty much the same. It'll all be about the games, the ease of use/functionality such as xbox live, and pricing/marketing/etc. None of them are particularly impressive compared to current PCs, which will soon have extremely powerful physics (PPUs) and sound (X-Fi) ... but again you have to make compromises with all machines, consoles & PCs, based mainly on price!

 

I got to agree with you, ShadowX, I too think the xbox360 looks like the best of the bunch, but only since I think xb-live was brilliantly executed, and they are claiming they are improving it for their 2nd console :-).

 

People have looked at making game engines multi-threaded, but it always ends up being mostly focused on 1 core. So I think, at least near term, both PS3's VPUs & two of the three XB360's PPC chips will go mostly unused! Also, note that XB360's CPUs do have a VPU aswell (the VMX-128 .. which has 128 registers .. I'm guessing it'll be like SSE or Altivec of the old PPCs). Sony claims total system performance of 2Teraflops, and MS claim 1Tflop ... Sony claims the CPUs can output 218gigflops AND THAT THE GPU IS AT 1.8 TERAFLOPS. In other words it's the GPU that they get their numbers from. Unfortunately I've had a play around programming certain simple physics algorithms the current-gen GPUs, and I get about the same performance from my current CPU (and a lot worse if I compile the code with SSE3 optimisations). So though GPUs are theoretically much faster at FPU ops, they are currently too custom, so all the language work arounds slow it down somewhat, to the point where it ends up being similar to the general-purpose programmable CPUs that are clocked at much higher rates (few GHz vs 100sMHz)!! So now I know for sure, this is all total hype. Sure the next-gen GPUs will be more programmable, but they've been mostly talking about how great Cell is and then it contributes a puny % to their overall 2TF figures. I'm not disappointed, though ... I expected this kind of marketing crap from Sony (they do it at every new console) ... I was just expecting it to be because real-world benches never come close to theoretical ones (esp when Sony restrict the caches of their VPUs so badly)! There was all this talk about Cell taking over from PCs. Embedded chips are everywhere, but they are not as capable at general processing tasks like modern PC CPUs are (soft modems, soft HD audio, soft LAN filtering, software MPEG transcoders, etc). And also, XB's ATI GPU is said to be more programmable than NV's future GPU ... working with MS meant they focused on DX10 functionality, unifying pixel & vertex shaders and doing virtual graphics memory. So yes XB360 does look like it's going to be pretty awesome from that respect!

 

XB360 has 10MB of e-VRAM (on the GPU chip .. thanks to ATI buying up a small graphics company called ArtX I think that was trying to do this about 5 years ago .. allowing a crazy 256GB/s!!), 500MB of 700MHz GDDR3 unified system/graphics RAM (22.4GB/s ... but with only a 21.6GB/s FSB ... that final figure is the most important IMHO ... the eDRAM really just works as a cache to make up for the lack of dedicated VRAM, I think ... if anyone knows for sure, please correct me). PS3 has 256MB RAM at 25.6GB/s, and 256MB GDDR3 VRAM (with the RSX GPU able to read at 15GB/s, and write at 20GB/s). Summarising this, XB360 has 21.6GB/s shared for CPU&GPU but with a superfast but very small cache and potentially twice as much VRAM thanks to DX10 virtual VRAM, and PS3 has 25.6GB/s for CPU & 15-20GB/s for GPU. It's not clear cut to me which will perform better in which games, but looking at shared memory buses between two CPUs in intel's CPU SMP architectures vs AMD's design, it's clear that it CAN be OK but only to a certain performance point. Remember the XB360 must share half the total PS3 bandwidth between THREE PPC CPUs and a GPU ... I would prefer dedicated memory & buses, but they had to make a cost-cutting compromise :-( ... rather than force punters to pay for 2x512MB (or lose billions of Dollars like they did for XBv1)!!