Evolution Or God... How were we created?

[shady772 0]

I say it was both. I mean this question leads to How was the first bits of life cells created? Water mixed with stone? lol No that couldnt be it. It would require something BIG if u sask me..and wha is sumthing that BIG? god lol. I believe that God created cells and eventually way down the line Monkeys evolved from those bits of cells and Humans eventually in retutrn evolved from monkeys. Simple as that lol

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

I only have one question for people who say they believe in the evolution theory that men evolved from apes. If that is true, where are the in between creatures that are part ape, part human?

Ok, you don't understand evolution. In evolution men did NOT evolve from apes. Rather, men and apes BOTH evolved from something ELSE. To answer your question about in between creatures, there are plenty. Many are extinct because of being out competed by both apes and humans. For instance, the neanderthal. The easiest place to see this is in genetics. There is HUGE overlap between ape/monkey/human genes. In particular, chimpanzees are very similar.

 

In the animal world you see all kinds of variations of different types of creatures and you can see that evolution does happen. I do believe in evolution in the animal kingdom as well as the life in the oceans. It is evident! However, evolution being the reason that we came about, from apes, can only be true if there is the so called missing link. If there is a missing link, why did that stage, or stages of development from ape to man cease to exist? We have apes here today and we have humans and there is nothing in between.

Like I said, above, this is a misunderstanding. As for variation, there is a lot in the assorted monkey/ape category. For humans, it would only evolve if there was an advantage to being similar to humans. There isn't, because humans kill any predators/competitors. The more similar they are to us, the quicker they would be eliminated. See neanderthals.

 

 

But, again I will ask. If it is true, or even possible that we descended from the apes, where is the in between stage or stages, and if there is a missing link, why is it missing. It is not missing from any other form of animal or sea life. It is only missing between ape and man. It is only missing because it never happened in the first place.

 

Rodney Lay

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Incorrect. There are 'missing links' between many different creature groups. Evolution happens at a constant rate, but speciation doesn't. That means that while genetics will shift at a constant rate, they may not shift in any particular direction. If the environment changes, either due to external shifts (say, global warming), or due to migration, then a species may be divided and one group may be ill adapted to its new environs. In that case, natural selection becomes more relevant, and speciation will begin to occur. It is possible for this to happen VERY fast, leaving no obvious stepping stones. ESPECIALLY stepping stones that are entirely external (like skeletal remains). Change speed best seen in genetics, since that is where it actually occurs.

[iGuest 3]

So every animal in the world has the ability to correct themself (including humans) although the process takes alot of time. Science is the new religion! And though we cannot see the change we must apply faith in doing so. Have you ever heard of psycho-genesis? A friend of mine told me a story of how a man wanted wings really bad and so to aquire them he imagined or believed that he did actually have wings. And after a while he starting getting growths on his shoulder blades. Don't know the rest of the story though ( I was high on pot) but I remember hearing something about an x-ray and stuff confirming they were wings... yeah that was a crazy story.

[saga 0]

When you observe the world around you, you can see that it couldn't all appear by itself. Just look how well human is made... we have eyes to see, ears to hear, mouth to eat, brain to think e.t.c.. the system is very well organized... who has organized it ? I hardly believe that it came by itself as an hazard.

Let's see an example. You all have a PC... the componets of a PC are all very well organized... video card, sound card,hard drives,cd and dvd players have to be connected to your mainboard... if NOONE has connected this stuff, the PC would never work... SOMEONE has connected it all, put together, installed and tuned... it could NEVER happen by itself. The world is the same thing but MUUUUUCH more complex... there's so much thigns that was tuned with a very high precision (like gravity e.t.c..) Someone arranged the world so it all works very good. Just try to guess who did it

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This kind of thinking is just an example to what I just mentioned, that in mans search for the ultimate truth he created a heavenly body/being that will answer all his questions. This kind of man is the one that easily tired of searching for the truth in a objective way, so he finds the answers in a subjective way of thinking.

 

Would you believe me that religion serves a purpose, the purpose is that religion will serve the few who has control of it. Take for examply the Vatican. If they were realy for the goodness why do they keep themselves rich, not just rich but super rich. Why is there a struggle for the cardinals to gain power in papacy. Why do the Espanish invade other countries in the name of religion. Spanish would say that we are here bringing a cross to share to you that one God exist but if you won't welcome us we will turn this cross upside down and it will become a sword.

 

We all think this way, specialy christian becuase we were raised to be this way. Its been part of our society. And if you tried to opposed it then you become an outcast. If we were in the time of the inquisition I would have been hang or burn for being accused of the devil. How could I be a devil when I dont even believe in angels, gods and the devil. The fact of the matter is that religion has controled our way of thinking and our way of life. If you would say that I am wrong. Then think again. Think how all your decision are affected about your religion. And think who will benifit it? If you still cant get the picture and very interested in this argument try to study the evolution of religion if I may say. Try to learn why there were Zeus, Mars and other gods long before The One God was concieved. And try to understand the beginning of the belief of One GOd. You will be surprised that the idea came from a pharoh in egypt were he ordered all the other gods destroy becuase he believed that there is only one god, the sun god. Unfortunately his religion didnt surived after he died. But part of it sinks into the heart and mind of the jews which were one of his subjects during his rule. So what do you think happned then?

 

About the bible. Remeber who compiled the bible. A group of people with one purpose. What that purpose might be Im sure it only benifits them. After all christians are thougth to be passive. Don't fight the kings becuase they are anointed by GOD. Its a simple way of saying, dont fight and struggle for your rights becuase God dont want you to do that. Believe me, this kind of thing still exist today. But it is more complex that those who are subjective wont notice it.

 

I only ask to all those who read this, be objective not subjective.

[mitchellmckain 0]

This is a very hot debate around the US, and I apologize it this has already been talked about. If so, please redirect me to the proper thread. Thanks!

This topic should be under Life Talk -> Religion and Philosophy where you will find the topic "Evolution or Creationism or niether.

Many scientists believe that humans are an evolved form of the ape family, which include gorilla's, orangatangs, etc.

They believe that all living things have common ancestors but that humans have comon ancestors with primates in a more recent past than with other living creatures.

Many religious people believe what the Bible tells us: God created mankind, starting with Adam and Eve. I ask you...what do you think?

I copy this from my last post in the topic mentioned above.

I believe that this division directly results from a mechanistic interpretation of evolution that is just as blindly dogmatic as fundamentalism. I think that this mechanistic interpretation of evolution, itself arises from fundamental ignorance shared by evolutionist and creationist alike. It is an ignorance about what it means to be alive.
I think that that if this were understood then the absurdity of both positions would be apparent. For example, consder the stacks of bright red tomatoes in your local grocery store. Were they created or did they evolve? The creationist points to their bright red color and pefect size and shape and says that clearly these tomatoes were manufactured according to the careful blueprints of a talented engineer. The evolutionist claims that these tomatoes are product of natural law and the end result of a long history of competition between individuals for scarce resources. Both positions are absurd. The tomatoes are a fruit of living organisms. They are not manufactured; they grow by themselves but not in a vacuum. They interact with an are reponsive to an environment that includes farmers and geneticists. Without the farmers and geneticists the tomatoes would not be what they are. They would not exist at all. They are created but there are no blueprints. Like all living things, the tomatoes are both responsible and responsive.

Take another example: engineers. Are engineers created or do they evolve? They make the effort that makes them what they are, so you could say they create themselves, and yet do they not owe a debt of gratitude to teachers, parents and authors who made it all possible?

The traditional vision of God as the great watchmaker is fundamentally flawed because watches are not alive, but we are.

So if you follow up from this point of view, we must ask what it truly means to be human. If all it takes is our bodies and we can behave as we please, then I think we are a bunch of apes and nothing more. But if there is something that God is trying to teach us and our thoughts, feelings and behavior also defines our humanity, then maybe we are a creation of God after all.

I am not sure what I believe, though, I lean more towards evolution. Seeing pictures of the skeletal structures of apes, and our skeletal structures, along with apes' movements compared to human movements, I find it hard to believe that we are not evolved creatures from apes.

Generally it is a choice between faith and reason. Evolution make some effort to appeal to reason. So if reason is what you are looking for you are not honestly going to find it in creationism. However the identification of human beings with evolving animals does a great deal of damage to the Christian world view and its faith. It is a matter of choosing which of these is worth more to you. For me faith wins hands down, and yet I stubbornly refuse to let go of reason.

However, I believe in God, I am a Christian. So, again, I have mixed views.

Me too, but I am also a scientist and a philospher. I want my cake and I want to eat it too.

[Sapien 0]

In my view . Creationism isn't science , it just fills in what ever science hasn't yet explained , although creationism calls it self a science it is by far no means anything scientific since it does not pass the scientific mode of reasoning .

[computerjoe 0]

I don't believe in any religion, as it is impossible that a 'god' could exist. However, the theory of evolution doesn't answer all questions; why are we here in the first place.The only way we can ever know is if we know how the universe was made, and the big bang isn't correct (where was the matter in the first place).

[Sapien 0]

computerjoe ,

 

>of course god can exist .. just not as a being which some disillusioned biblical people may think . It can exist in any form imaginable ... even Michio Kaku ( revered and famous scientitist ) has his thoughts on the mind of God . We have to think outside the box sometimes or else how can we call ourselves explorers , Stephen Hawking is a metaphysicist and even he reaches out to the divine in attempt to glorify the cosmos in some grandious meaning .

 

>But the big bang may be plausible if the higgs-field is proven true .. I have once thought the idea of a multi-verse but now I'm reflecting back on the subject of HOW it is possible for something , our universe , to be created out of apparently nothing .

 

>also ... Don't confuse creationism with religion .. although it may correlate with some facets of religion , much of the arguments supplied by creationists have made disassociative efforts in distancing religions involvement with all this , most of the well known creationists are actually scientists , mathematicians etc ...

 

as far as the implication of introducing intelligent design theory ,, then who knows , conspiracy theorists are always ready to jump at such things .

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

>also ... Don't confuse creationism with religion .. although it may correlate with some facets of religion , much of the arguments supplied by creationists have made disassociative efforts in distancing religions involvement with all this , most of the well known creationists are actually scientists , mathematicians etc ...

 

as far as the implication of introducing intelligent design theory ,, then who knows  , conspiracy theorists are always ready to jump at such things .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Intelligent design is not a scientific theory. As such, attempts to inject it into scientific discussion is due to religious, not scientific, beliefs.

 

Really, intelligent design is simply a non-denominational version of christian creationism, wrapped in a fancy wrapper.

[xboxrulz1405241485 0]

well, this debate has gone for years, probably for hundreds of years. There is a theory stating that if one finds out what was the creation of the universe and finds out why we exist, the universe will quickly collapse and a new and more complicated one appears. (Source: The Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy, book version)I do believe that the universe is created by the Big Bang, and there are solid proof that it did happen. The Big Bang was caused by the most basic element, which we all know is Hydrogen. When the massive hydrogen body assembled, the mass was too big, and it had to explode (like when clouds hold too much water and rains) causing other elements to form and stars to also form. If you look through the telescope and find a start composed with pure hydrogen, then you have found an old star. (Source: my theory and Guiness World Records).I do believe in evolution, why do u ask? It is because our bone structures are very very similar to apes and they're not that stupid as we might think. Viruses (bio) often evolves, like SARS, AIDS, and other major diseases from smaller ones. Our immune system has also made the common cold from a deadly disease to a common infliction that is easily cured, why? It is because our biological DNA only picks the best set of chromosomes to create a new baby instead of the bad ones.That's IMO,xboxrulz

[mitchellmckain 0]

Intelligent design is not a scientific theory.  As such, attempts to inject it into scientific discussion is due to religious, not scientific, beliefs. 

 

Really, intelligent design is simply a non-denominational version of christian creationism, wrapped in a fancy wrapper.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just wanted you to know that even though I am a Christian, I agree with you 100%. The reason is probably because I am also a scientist. Creationism and intellegent design are not science, they are representative of a growing number of groups who try to clothe their religous or philosophical beliefs in the terminology and appearance of science. They have done this largely because of atheists or anti-theists who have clothed their religious or philosophical beliefs in science for nearly a century. This practice went unchallenged for too long, but more recent results in science and logic have invalidated this (Quantum mechanics and the unprovability of the consistency of mathematics by Kurt Godel). Science is now neutral on the issue as it should be. However, the damage is already done and true science has lost a great deal of credibility among the large portions of the public. This is why we see this rising pseudo-science, where science has been reduced to rhetoric.

 

Scientist must and do guard the process of scientific discovery just as jealously as the Christians guard the life transforming message of Christianity. It is my dearest hope to heal the widening breach between them, which this issue of evolution versus creationism has become. The only way I can see this happening is for both to give up a little of their misconceptions. Evolution cannot be a deterministic, automatic or random process because it involves living things, which make choices creatively with both intention and purpose, with the input of teachers and caregivers. Creation cannot be design and manufacture when it involves living things, which learn things for themselves and determine what they will become, every step of the way, by means of their own choices.

 

God created the world and everthing in it, but not as a watchmaker. How could anyone in their right mind compare our world to a smoothly running clockworks. God created created the world as the shepherd raises his sheep. The idiot sheep run astray constantly and some are injured despite the best the shepherd can do.

 

Evolution in its simplest terms is just the plain fact that living things learn and make choices as whole population (genetic pool) as well as individually. It is driven by genetic variation which derives from the creative process inherent in all living things, both individually and as groups.

 

The conflict between creation and evolution derives entirely from an inadequate understanding of the nature of living things. And this conflict will eventually fade as we learn more an more about ourselves.

[miCRoSCoPiC^eaRthLinG 0]

Rodneylay...you don't believe in evolution at all? Well, answer me this...The giraffe...If I remember correctly, they didn't always have long necks. How did they get long necks so they can reach the high trees? How did the fish in the deep ocean obtain those lights they have?

 

I don't think they are coincidence...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Going a little off-topic here but kinda related. There seems to be a massive misconception that Giraffes grew long neck through evolution and similarly other much-needed features developed in other animals as per need. Let me remind you this wasn't the case at all.

 

This is where a big part of darwins theory - Natural Selection and Survival of the Fittest comes into play. Lets take up the case of giraffes for example. They didn't sprout long-necks coz they wanted to reach up to the juicy leaves high up on trees. DNA's the root of all evil here For any given animal/plant species, you get an amazing variation in the gene pool - even for closely related offsprings. What happened in essence was, that there were say, hundreds of different types of giraffes - some with long necks, some short and some in between. The ones with longer necks and feet were always at an advantage - better food, better pace.. thus this particular breed survived better than the rest, both in forraging and eluding predators. The other shorter breeds gradually died out coz they couldn't cope up with the changing environment. While this presents an elitist viewpoint - this infact, is the most logical explanation amongst all. If you apply Occam's Razor to the theories of evolution - this shines outright as the simplest and most plausible one. Nature always picks out the best it can find from the gene pools so that only the best genes are passed down to the future generations - that way, they always stand a better chance of survival and not become extinct. After all, mama nature wants her children to be hale and hearty and ever playful in her lap.

 

I do believe in God - or at least in some supreme power - but I also do believe in evolution. The idea of Adam being created out of thin air and then Eve being born out of his rib is err.. excuse me - but hardcore *BLEEP*. If that was the case - we'd see women being born the same way till date. (Although this presents a very interesting idea - CLONING.. but how can you clone a man and give birth to a woman instead ?? Unless you did some massive genetic reengineering, which we're incapable of even today, with our limited knowledge.. so please.. a couple of million years ago ??? OH PHULEEZZZ)

 

What I think is that dear God, just provided us with that primordial soup of life and sparked off reaction that gave birth to the first live ever on planet earth. From then on - it was all rest and rest and rest for him.. r maybe he got busy with any of the umpteenthybillion planets in our universe. But anyways, he let mother nature and the sun of evolution take course since then. He just built the basic stage and sat back to watch the fun.

 

More later ..

m^e

[DigitalDingo 0]

How can people say that God created the universe and dumped life on Earth? Listen to yourself! It makes no sense! Some old man sitting in the sky and when he wants some fun he creates some life on a planet. With all the things science has discovered how can anybody still believe this?Some believers defend themselves by saying “if God doesn’t exist, then who created our universe?” I can’t answer that – and nobody can – but I usually ask back “then who created God?” It’s the same question, but I just get the answer “he was always there…” Please, believers, just listen to yourselves sometimes…

[xboxrulz1405241485 0]

The universe was never created, remember this: "matters cannot be created nor can it be destroyed" Therefore, that proves that it can't be created, there could be more than 1 universe. I don't know. Yet, the Big Bang theory might be composed of these matters that grouped up and got too heavy, then it exploded causing the fragments to become stars.DigitalDingo is right, science has proven religion wrong. Just like how did the guy created the ark to carry 2 of each animal to be 600+ years old? It was before the medieval ages!xboxrulz

[mitchellmckain 0]

How can people say that God created the universe and dumped life on Earth? Listen to yourself! It makes no sense! Some old man sitting in the sky and when he wants some fun he creates some life on a planet. With all the things science has discovered how can anybody still believe this?

Some believers defend themselves by saying âif God doesnât exist, then who created our universe?â I canât answer that â and nobody can â but I usually ask back âthen who created God?â Itâs the same question, but I just get the answer âhe was always thereâŚâ

Please, believers, just listen to yourselves sometimesâŚ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are plenty of scientists who know a great deal more science than you do, yet they still believe in God. Now, this may be because the more you know of science the more you realize how little we know after all, but I don't think so. I think that no matter how much we learn the question of the existence of God will remain something that we will simply choose to believe or not. However, I think the only people who think that God is as you describe are atheists, for they have simply created this image for the purpose of ridicule. Tradition has it that God is an infinite being and therefore has no need of a creator. Now if you are thinking that as an explanation for the existence of the universe, this is very unsatisfying, then I agree with you. As an explanation for things God does not do a good job at all. But that is not the true role of God in the live of those who believe in him.

 

The universe was never created, remember this: "matters cannot be created nor can it be destroyed" Therefore, that proves that it can't be created, there could be more than 1 universe. I don't know. Yet, the Big Bang theory might be composed of these matters that grouped up and got too heavy, then it exploded causing the fragments to become stars.

 

DigitalDingo is right, science has proven religion wrong. Just like how did the guy created the ark to carry 2 of each animal to be 600+ years old? It was before the medieval ages!

Ah but matter is created all the time and even energy is not conserved absolutely. All these laws of physics have their exceptions. The current theory of the big bang put forward by the physics community is that this event created all of matter, space and time. Some even think that many of the physical laws of our universe were created at the same time as the result of a symmetry breaking phenomena.

 

Of what science do you speak? The physical sciences are all about the mathematical relationship between measurable quantities. And the other sciences have yet to prove much of anything at all. For the most part they simply observe and record the results.