God

[Cammy 0]

Yeah its free will all about free will. Im glad God didnt create us to be programmed like robots. I take the Bible as my rulebook for life and Im proud to say it, others choose whats good for them. Christian bashing isint anything new. Not speaking directly about the comments but it made me thing of whats going on in the world around me. Nothing about the post surprises me in the least, in fact I expect it. Oh how Christianity is becoming unpopular. History keeps repeating if we still havent learn from our past mistakes...

[nickmealey 0]

I'm a christian, I love God, and I know he loves me to, if any of you want answeres, my "only home page", with a stuped ad web site is: http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

[HoRuS 0]

Oh, and Horus. Krishna is merely an avatar of our chief god Vishnu. The trinity goes like this: Brahma - creator, Vishnu - nourisher/protector, Shiva - destroyer.

Sorry I'm not really familiar with those names but I think you know what I meant

[switch 0]

ok.hi everyone, firstly before i start i would just like to let everyone know that i have not read every post on this topic, i read the first 2 and a half pages and then my head got too full of ideas so here goes...firstly, The Bible is not full of rules and restrictions, and the rules and restrictions it does have are, when you think about it, in the best interest of the world.1 Corinthians 6:12 (from The Bible, NLT) says:You may say, "I am allowed to do anything." But I reply, "Not everything is good for you." And even though "I am allowed to do anything," I must not become a slave to anything.In John 10:10b Jesus says:I have come so that you may have life, and have it to the fullest.these passages are interesting because they show God's idea of how we should live our lives: life is there to be enjoyed. Notice though how in the first passage it says: "Not everything is good for you". God has our best interests at heart, and it is for this reason that there are rules.secondly, as to the response about God commiting suicide so he can break his own rule (sorry i can't find exactly what you said, this computer is REALLY dodgey ) that's not how it works (to be frank). You can only die once, right? well Jesus substituted himself for our punishments. No matter how much sin you have, you can only die once. Jesus took all our sin and died for it. because God is omnicient he is outside of time, meaning that Jesus' death took place for us now as well.thirdly, about Amby's friend's comment on how the church does more bad than good, but at least it has good intentions...i don't disagree. because we are all sinful, our good intentions often do turn out bad. but as we grow in Christ (man that sounds cliched) we get better and better at fixing this, and all we can do is try!well that's about all for now, if i kept going i'd be here all arvo have a good weekend everyone...oh yeah and amby? next time put it in the 'humor' section if that's what it's intended as

[biscuitrat 0]

I have a question to ask - do Christians consider Jesus to be the manifestation of God and worship him or the God no one really knows about? And also, those all happen to be quotes between apostles and Jesus - still not very "proofy" in my opinion.

[HoRuS 0]

Nicely said... Allthough due to difference of opinions I have to say this: (sorry )

You can only die once, right?

Nope cuz why would our Creator make such complicated things like the human body, momma nature and even the stars and galaxies when it's only for just 1 life per soul... ?
Wouldn't Heaven get too overcrowded?

well Jesus substituted himself for our punishments. No matter how much sin you have, you can only die once. Jesus took all our sin and died for it. because God is omnicient he is outside of time, meaning that Jesus' death took place for us now as well.

I rather think Jesus died from our sins then for our sins, wouldn't that be too easy for us, because there might be people who think:"oh Jesus died for our sins? well why shouldn't I sin some more? He died for it anyways".
It were the Romans who killed him and these are the same Romans from wich our "beloved" Vatican "friends" decended from, remember?

I have a question to ask - do Christians consider Jesus to be the manifestation of God and worship him or the God no one really knows about? And also, those all happen to be quotes between apostles and Jesus - still not very "proofy" in my opinion.

I think the worship Jesus more then the God they don't understand, they call their God Jesus (yea I've been to church too a long time ago )
I think they confuse the message with the messenger.
It's more logical Jesus was send to deliver Gods message then he was send to be worshipped so the message would be lost in history.

Peace

[biscuitrat 0]

Most Europeans descended from the Romans, Goths, Visigoths, and those people. So it's not only the Vatican church.

[HoRuS 0]

True but the Catholic and Christian churches mainly decent from Romans, that's what I learned there ...

[thebluekirby 0]

feh...i don't belive in god, but i don't hate it. It's good that someone came up with god, it give us people something to belive in, even though we all know it's not real. Sort of like heaven. We all know heaven doesn't exisist, but we'd all like to, right?Just because people belive in god doesn't give you a reason to hate them. Sometimes praying to god brings your hopes up. You think you'll get better at something just because you prayed to god, but it's just you. So...yeah.... it's nothing to really hate

[biscuitrat 0]

I actually think the Bible spends more time fortelling the apocalypse than mentioning heaven. We discussed this in a kind of impromptu way in Biology. All the non-Christians go first, which isn't really fair. I mean, if it wasn't for Christianity proclaiming that you had to convert people to your "superior" religion, we wouldn't have to do that. What's so bad about having people worship whatever gods they want? Just because I don't worship your God doesn't make me a heathen - yet if the Bible is really a "guideline for life", why does it say that? (I'm replying to the furious's last thing by the way)I've also broken at least 7 commandments through no real effort of my own.

[nickmealey 0]

This is getting annoying just by reading these posts, lol. I am not a religious person at all. I only went to church once in my entire life and I dont really believe in anything except maybe christmas. I think its better to just not believe in something like that  but just a little bit if you want. But thats just my personal opinion.

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Life can be tough I know. But this is somthing important. Seriously, the most important thing the world has ever know, it's nothing you can escape.

[switch 0]

firstly HoRuS, i'd like to say good on ya for giving your opinion without being offensive or getting angry. that's a pretty rare gift!

 

Nicely said... Allthough due to difference of opinions I have to say this: (sorry )

difference of opinion is what makes us human!

Nope cuz why would our Creator make such complicated things like the human body, momma nature and even the stars and galaxies when it's only for just 1 life per soul... ?

fair enough, i can see where you're coming from... here's my opinion

our Creator made such complicated things like the human body, momma nature and even the stars and galaxies (as you said). I think that he would have found it relatively easy, considering he's all powerful. Also, because he loves us more than we can imagine, he sees it as all worthwhile, even if it is only for 1 life per soul. Why does he love us that much? it's past me, but no matter which way you look at it i think that a kind of love that powerful is kind of hard to question

 

I rather think Jesus died from our sins then for our sins, wouldn't that be too easy for us, because there might be people who think:"oh Jesus died for our sins? well why shouldn't I sin some more? He died for it anyways".

 

That's an interesting (and valid) way to look at it, but God's conditions of our eternal life is that we must believe in him and Jesus his son, believe that Jesus died for our sins, and also that we repent from our sins. This above mentality is not repentant; this sort of mentality will not get one into heaven.

 

It were the Romans who killed him and these are the same Romans from wich our "beloved" Vatican "friends" decended from, remember?

[\quote]

true, but in the gospels (Bible: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, the first four books of the new testament) after Jesus' death, the people who persecuted him are found to have a "what have we done?" attitude. They say "Truly this was the Son of God" and regret crucifying him.

Also, this logic seems to imply that because a few men from a particular race is corrupt, then the whole race is corrupt. This is a bit of a stereotype.

 

I think the worship Jesus more then the God they don't understand, they call their God Jesus (yea I've been to church too a long time ago )

I think they confuse the message with the messenger.

It's more logical Jesus was send to deliver Gods message then he was send to be worshipped so the message would be lost in history.

 

About this, the bible says that Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God are all one person, just in different forms. This personally confuses me a little but hope it clears things up for you.

 

 

Cheers everyone

[biscuitrat 0]

There were only some Romans who killed him. Christianity was frowned upon then because it interfered with the original beliefs of the Romans. They did their slaughtering and then the Holy Roman Empire came about. A lot of the later emperors were Christian emperors - and not all the people in the Vatican descended from the original beliefs. You have a really harsh view about Catholicism, because I haven't heard anything positive about it for a while.

 

My religion is based on reincarnation. The soul of someone that dies goes into a new body, which is usually a baby being born. The soul keeps going through this cycle until it can be accepted into an outer plane - not a heaven. Everyone goes to this outer plane when their reincarnations are complete. Everyone has a dharma to perform to get into this plane. There's no discrimination on how much you've sinned or what religion you are because you will eventually get there. When you think about the one life per soul thing, think about how many lives that soul has had already. You're apparently supposed to grow from your past lives and eventually achieve that dharma.

 

I think a lot of things about Jesus loving others is kind of off. I mean, he died and went to heaven, I assume, and now look at the world. Why is nothing happening? Can he prevent murder? Rape? Larceny? True, there's the apocalypse coming, but that's just pruning the faithful from the not faithful. I believe it's not going to happen - I mean, we'll probably blow ourselves up with nuclear weapons before anyone up in heaven cares about what we're doing. How do you determine if he really loves you if you can't show it? I believe in love as a mystical force that somehow unconsciously pervades you, but if you love someone, you wouldn't want them to die and commit crimes...it's just a thought I had.

[Joshua 0]

Hi. My name is God. I created the universe according to my perfect plan. Don't ask why there are problems with it, because despite my omniscience, I can't be expected to forsee imminent disaster. In my amazing love for all of humanity, I selected a particular race of people as my favorite, and ordered them to wipe out surrounding races, burn their cities, and kill their children. Eventually, to fix that whole "sin" problem that I created, I had to sacrifice myself to myself so I would be allowed to change a rule I made myself. Once that was over, I set up a church here on Earth which does more harm than good, but at least they mean well. I suppose I could have planned the organization of the thing out a bit better, but I'm a busy God, and I just don't have enough time to make sure that my holy book isn't mysoginistic and my followers aren't racists. In a nutshell, you should believe in me because if you don't, I'll send you to hell to suffer for eternity. Did I mention I love you?

Comments?

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Alright, for starters I'd like to say I loved some of those last posts by Switch and TheFurious1, Horus had a good post on where Catholocism is really from as well. I was impressed with some of the answers to this, but I think there's still some stuff left for me to cover

 

Now, with that said, my reply to the original post:

 

Amby, about God foreseeing disaster, He clearly is able to look into the future like we look at the present, although whether He knows it already without needing to look is debatable. You seem to think that Him making Adam and Eve when they would fall was a failure on His part, when in actuality He knew that it would give Him a chance to give to mankind even greater blessings then they would originally have had:

 

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

 

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

 

1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

 

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

 

 

 

 

The thing with those peoples wiped out by the Israelites was that they worshipped Baal and Molech so that they practiced child sacrifice, had temple prostitutes, raped women who came to the towns, etc... And God having the right to kill all who sin chose to execute judgment on them just as He has the right to execute it upon us all at any time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

God being perfectly just can not allow justice to go by the wayside, He is the only perfect judge and there must be a payment made for sin. The wages of sin are death (Romans 6:23) and someone had to die. Abraham and Isaac make a good example of what had to happen, God sent a lamb to die in Isaac's place just as He sent His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, the perfect Lamb, to die for the sins of all mankind. It has been said that even as the Father let Isaac live He knew at the same time that in the place of Isaac (who symbolized all mankind) He must one day send His own Son to die that all who trust in Him might live.

 

 

 

 

You are assuming that the Catholics who've committed such atrocities were Christians even though they did not love others as themselves and do no harm to others as Christ commanded. Here are some of the practices the Bible condemns as being of those to come:

 

-Worship angels and have voluntary humility

 

Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

 

-Forbid to marry and say you can't eat certain meats

 

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

 

-Worship Mary

 

Luke 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

 

-Will use philosophy and the traditions of men

 

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

-Will use Jewish fables and commandments of men

 

Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

 

Also, this is said of Babylon, a great city or institution that is called the great harlot. This is spoken of as happening in the last times as well, why it is in Revelation when speaking of the plagues to come and judgments:

 

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great ***** that sitteth upon many waters:

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the ***** sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the *****, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

 

Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and as for Mass, right after talking about His flesh being bread Christ said this:

 

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.