mac or windows? which do u think is better

[qwijibow 0]

Right, YOU can install linux in 15 minutes.  The 'typical user' will not.  And getting everything to work correctly, especially if there are any snags, (for instance the Issue I had where I had a driver but couldn't get it to install for no good reason) then the time goes up for those people dramatically. 

 

In terms of being a powerful tool, thats usefull and all, but frankly, none of that stuff matters to me.  On a day to day basis, I need email, webbrowsing, office utilities, and the ability to play music.  I need that all to work, and I need for my computer to give me zero crap about it.  It needs to not crash, be easy to use, and in general never make me care about the computer.  If I spend any of my time messing with the computer, I don't spend that time getting whatever it that I am trying to get done, done.  Some people, probably you included, see messing with and learning about computers as an end in itself.  Which is fine, but others(like myself) do not, or only want to have to do this when we feel like it.  My exerience with linux is that it very quickly gets in my way when trying to get work done, and that even when I am willing to sit down for a bit and try figuring things out, the documentation is sparse or just outright terrible, and it turns into layers of frustration.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And Windows Provides that to you ? well fine, carry on.

 

i need to do graphical loggins on remote machines... eXceed for windows can do that.. but i prefere X.org and the benefits of a *Nix to *Nix login.

 

HOWEVER.. on a day to day basis when im not working, i requre exactly the same as you.

 

windows does not rpovide this.

after windows is installed, you need to apply all the critical securety updates that take ages to doanoad and install..

 

you need to install a virus scanner, which needs to be kept upto date.

 

you need to install adaware, and keep that up to date, and do frequent scans.

 

every month or so you need to defragment the hard drive, which drains system performance.

 

virus scanner, disk framgmenters, windows updates, spyware remvers require maintenance..

uppdates, re de-framgments, occasional entie disk scanning for virii.....

 

EVEN if you set this to happen as a cron job, it still eats away your bandwidth, slowing the PC responsive time and download speed dureing an update / scan.

 

a one time Linux install, and one time inconvinience or a complicated driver install EASILY beats a disk de-fragment every month for the rest of your life... virus scans and updtaes every week for the rest of your life...

 

ok, it sounds drastic when i say rest of your life, maybe,, rest of your windows computer using life..

 

but you get my point.

 

its like a one time payment or ÂŁ100 being much better that ÂŁ1 a week for the next 10 years.

 

how can you disagree with that ?

 

dont tell me you dont have to use a virus scanner and defragment your hard disk, cos even microsoft will admit that disk defragments are essential to keeping your filesystem from slowing.

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

Note that the topic is Mac Vs. Windows. I am not defending windows here, It has PLENTY of problems, but while a user has to do all these things you talk about, they are EASY(at least from my point of view) for a user to do, provided they realize they need to do them(one of the big problems with windows). However, NONE of these things you mentioned as being a problem with windows is a problem with the Mac. Which is why I like the Mac.On another note, while you are correct that running all those updates as a 'cron job'(ok, this is an example. Why Cron? Why not a 'task scheduler job' or something equally intuitive.), will slow your computer while they are happening, why not run them in the middle of the night(like I do on my windows box that I use for gaming). That being said, once again, I won't defend windows much. The fact that they STILL haven't put in a filesystem that doesn't need constant defragmenting blows my mind. Or at least, they haven't set up the OS to defragment with whatever spare time you give it, or ANYTHING so that the user doesn't have to futz with it. Really, All I ask of linux is that the linux 'community' do some work on the ergonomics/HCI/human factors set of stuff. Its really not that hard to fix the stuff,(though it would take work), and I would even be willing to help(in any way that I can given that I am not a programmer) to make this happen(which, considering that my training is IN human factors, I could do). Its stuff like 'cron jobs', weird driver installations(no matter why they are weird, the user shouldn't have to deal with them), outright BAD installers(though they ARE getting better, I will give them some credit), naming conventions like usr as opposed to User, and so on that help 'normal human readability'(or at least setting things up so that the typical user will never need to see anything. /usr is actually one of the better ones, its easier to guess what it does than /etc, which could mean just about anything to most users, or nothing at all. KDE and Gnome, from what I have used of them, aren't particularly bad, but at least in the case of KDE(I haven't dealt enough with Gnome to really comment on it) in a lot of ways it clones the UI of windows, which therefore means that it has many of the HCI pitfalls of windows, but then it breaks that methodology in some strange ways that are rather non-intuitive(like the button at the top that compresses the window into just a bar). Coming from windows, I have no clue why anyone would do that(I do hope there is a good reason), but it feels just wrong from what I am used to. Granted, its what *I* am used to, but thats the same as most new users, so its an issue, not a huge one, but an issue. None of these things, by themselves, is something that breaks the bank. But all of them together creates a barrier to new users(ESPECIALLY non-technical users who would benefit most from a lot of linux's features like the lack of viruses and such).I would love to see windows die, but these things need to be dealt with before it will happen.

[qwijibow 0]

Really ... ? you dont like KDE ?older versions of KDE were pretty ugly, but Kde3.3 is nice.but ive never thought of it as un-ergonomic.ive only ever used MacOSX UI Clones on linux, and maybe had 15 minutes hand on time with a real OSX install... but i found it to be similar in ease of use and design.very different, but all the same features were there.as for the windows roll up.. yea, i never use it, but an extra feature that you dont choose to use isnt a problem (untill it gets to bloat level)anyways.. one problem with the linux community, is the so called Glory...Yipee for the guy who porgrammed in suspend to swap into the linux kernel.. AMASING feature..you can power off the machine half way through a compile... power the machine back on, and the ram image is loaded, and everything continues asif if was never stoped.AMASING...but nobody is singing praises about the guy who made graphical install programs slightly easyer to use.

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

Yeah, and the thing is, I would love to help with that, because I would really like to dump windows. And if I don't like KDE, I can just use Gnome or something.

[Brian1405241474 0]

if you are a gamer, you should use windows. Not enough gmaes make it to the mac. but other than that, I prefer mac by far. I love OS X. It has a great look and is stable and easy to use. There aren't as many applications availbe for the mac, but I still thinks it worth it.and they have the best looking computers

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

Indeed, and really its not the number of applications that matter, but the quality of the applications for any given purpose. The mac has very high quality programs for most everything you need to do, and most of them are free. The only exception i have found is an IRC client. The free IRC clients aren't that good, and the pay IRC clients still aren't as good as mIRC for PC. There is an open source IRC client, but I don't like it very much, but perhaps that will change as it becomes more robust.

[Brian1405241474 0]

Indeed, and really its not the number of applications that matter, but the quality of the applications for any given purpose.  The mac has very high quality programs for most everything you need to do, and most of them are free.  The only exception i have found is an IRC client.  The free IRC clients aren't that good, and the pay IRC clients still aren't as good as mIRC for PC.  There is an open source IRC client, but I don't like it very much, but perhaps that will change as it becomes more robust.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I can't say I know much about IRC clients. I don't know anyone who uses IRC. (I use AIM and MSN) But there is an awesome Mac OS X app, Adium that does, I think, all or at least most IM protocols, and might include IRC. It is freeware and very high quality. I use it for my MSN and AIM chats.

 

For the pure beauty of it:

 

Adium explained:

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

I use fire instead of Adium, you might like that as well. I am going to see if Fire supports IRC, if it does, then that would be fantastic.Hmm, sadly while Fire does support IRC it doesn't do the greatest job of it. IRC is sufficiently unlike other chat protocols that I haven't found any All-In-One chat programs that handle it well.

[Brian1405241474 0]

I use fire instead of Adium, you might like that as well.  I am going to see if Fire supports IRC, if it does, then that would be fantastic.

Hmm, sadly while Fire does support IRC it doesn't do the greatest job of it.  IRC is sufficiently unlike other chat protocols that I haven't found any All-In-One chat programs that handle it well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hmmm... I'm sorry. That must be why I never used IRC. You could try using Jabber protocol with Adium, because Jabber might be able to use IRC. I tried Fire, but didn't like it as much. It's better than some or IM apps, but Adium is still my favorite. But do you know if you can do IRC with Jabber protocol? You use a Mac?

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

Actually, I retried Colloquy, and I have no clue why it had such issues the first time, since I am using the same version(same copy even). It works just fine. Still not quite up to the level of mIRC, but then again, nothing is. That being said, its perfectly funtional for what most anyone would need it for. So, for IRC, use colloquy.

[Mastermund 0]

I prefer Windows over Mac. Not only does Windows support so much, but if you get the right programs you can secure your computer...ahem...Zone Alarm, anyone? (Yeah, that's not the only program I use to secure my computer, but it's a necessary addition to any computer. Also, use Mozilla Firefox instead of Internet Explorer.) Not only that, but at my high school I use a Mac with a a one-button mouse, and I instantly hat it. I am aware that Macs can have two-button mice, but as far as I know there is no options window that comes up when you right click like you can in Windows. As far as speed...there are file manager/shell replacements for Windows. For instance, if you have Windows XP I recommend using ExplorerXP instead of Windows Explorer as your file manager. As far as shells, there are many free downloads available (Blackbox, Litestep, etc.).

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

uh, there is an options thing that pops up with a right click, just like in windows. And the 'right programs' to secure your computer are.... zonealarm, adaware, spybot, hijack this and norton antivirus. Now, update them all regularly, as well as windows itself. Finally change out outlook express with some other program(like thunderbird), so you won't randomly get crushed by email viruses that open if you even accidentally click on the email. Now that you have done all that, remember that performance suffers if you don't defrag your hard drive pretty regularly(and no program you can download changes that fact). Finally, get used to programs that are annoying to use and buggy.

[Mastermund 0]

Oh yes... I forgot about the two button Mac mouse.Anyway, I already have Norton, Spybot, and Adaware, as well Spyware Blaster and Spy Sweeper. I'm no dummy when it comes to Internet security....You seem to be under the impression that there is something wrong with my computer. There is not. My experience with Windows XP (SP2) has been rarely, if ever, buggy.

[MajesticTreeFrog 0]

Anyway, I already have Norton, Spybot, and Adaware, as well Spyware Blaster and Spy Sweeper. I'm no dummy when it comes to Internet security.

of course there is something wrong with your computer, it is simply that you have already spent your time trying to fix it. That is inherently bad, its just that you don't care. which is fine of course.

[Mastermund 0]

of course there is something wrong with your computer, it is simply that you have already spent your time trying to fix it.  That is inherently bad, its just that you don't care.  which is fine of course.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fix it? How do you fix something if it's not broken? I haven't spent my time fixing my computer; I've spent my time protecting my computer, and thus far it has worked. It appears you think I installed those programs because I've been having problems, which is simply not the case.