Wilson Calls Obama A Liar During His Address To Congress

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/
And a video is:
http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

I thought that this was quite funny, and Pelosi (the woman in red on the right)'s reaction was even better. You can tell that most of congress are liberals, from the commotion after the comment was made. The man that made these comments, Joe Wilson, had the balls to stand up to Obama in a nationally televised event. I think that there was nothing wrong with his comment, as it is demonstrating a freedom of speech. Sure it was rude and disrespectful, but he is allowed to speak his mind.

Whether or not the bill provides coverage for illegals, it makes it easier for illegals to get healthcare. I have seen sources show it both ways, confirming Wilson's allegations, and rejecting them.

And for people who say that such comments to the president of the United States is unprecedented, I can produce a long list of times that congress has make worse remarks to George Bush.

So, do you think it was right for Joe Wilson to shout such a remark at President Obama, and do you think illegals will be able to get healthcare under such a reform?

[rayzoredge 2]

Little slow for "HOT NEWS!!!," don't you think? As much as I don't really care much or paid much attention to the incident at hand, I think that the whole pep-rally-ish address was retarded from the get-go. It's an address, not a friggin' dictation where you can drown out what the guy says with loud applause after simple words or when you can tell the POTUS that he's a liar. Doesn't this Wilson guy have a political position? If he does, doesn't that already reveal that he can't even keep control of his own emotional outbursts (in which he later apologized for)? That can't look good and definitely won't save face when you call the POTUS a liar. Then again, a politician calling a politician a liar is pretty redundant, no? The guy had no balls. Anyone could stand up and call the POTUS a liar. Come to think of it, that's just a stupid thing to say from many perspectives. We covered the political side of it. As a guy who wanted some news feed coverage and attention on him, he definitely got it. As a guy who was voicing his opinion DURING a presidential address... stupid. (Take your thoughts and comments home... no one cares what YOU think.) You say freedom of speech... I say that even if you have the right, it doesn't make it right to do it. I have the freedom to call anyone here an idiot without just cause. Would I do it? Nah... because I don't think that I should incite such an uproar and then pitifully defend my actions with "the freedom of speech." That's just stupid... and I use my freedom of speech to say so. Feel free to make up that list if you want... it doesn't change what I said above about the freedom of speech, the right to make those statements, AND the common-sense approach of "even though it's right doesn't make it right to do it." Should I even approach the idea of capital punishment? I would love to see every rapist, murderer, and criminal of heinous past to face capital punishment, but would that be "right?" A ton of people who came up with and support abolishing capital punishment would disagree. (Not sure which idiot came up with that idea... but I guess it sucks being "the better person.")To answer your question, I think that it was stupid of Wilson to shout out anything at all, much less something derogatory to President Obama. You want to see balls? I want Wilson to shout out something like that to Kim Jong Il and see what becomes of it. With all the possibilities, I think just the idea of doing that takes balls. My stance on illegals is that they should go through the system. How hard is that? Yeah, it sucks paying taxes... but that's how we get all these nice little things called "health care" and whatnot. Don't want to pay taxes? Get the hell out of our country. Sure, land of opportunity... but I don't think I saw a label for "land where we'll take care of you for free" somewhere...I just don't understand the political stance on allowing anything to deal with illegals. It just doesn't make any sense and it seems nothing but detrimental to the nation. Sure, we'll take them with open arms... but at least have them pay back their dues. And if they can't? Join all the other Americans that can't. A handful of them are bound to get up and off the poor train and be able to contribute to society.

[serverph 0]

i'm not fully aware of the whole spectrum of ideas put forward on the national health care issue in the USA, since i'm not an american citizen, so there's not much it can do to affect me personally. but what this joe wilson did is just plain unparliamentary and out of protocol. maybe the US congress is on it's way to becoming like the parliamentarians in south korea. will we be later seeing physical punches thrown, as well as chairs and documents, as what usually happens there? REALITY TV at it's finest when that happens.

 

the best thing that happened to joe wilson is becoming an internet meme, an overnight internet star, with just two words. TWO WORDS. and we get laughs and chuckles aplenty online. apologies thenafter won't erase joe wilson's infamy, since it has already been unleashed to the world.

 

i'll leave it to US citizens to debate the merits of the national health care issue. the rest of the world is just on the side lines on this one.

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

Yeah...a little slow with Hot News. I saw it nearly as it happened, but logging into Trap 17 and posting takes some time :lol:Politicians should stand up to North Korea! Sure, they have nukes and the such, but our military is great, and could probably get rid of any threat out there. The country that the United States would have a problem with (if we pissed them off) would be China.I'll tell you the truth, I hated all the clapping and remarks about the speech. God it's a speech, not a clapping party. He should have made the address through live TV at the white house, not with congress, so that the speech wouldn't consist of 70% clapping.

[Watermonkey 0]

Finally. A member of congress who's not a complete and total Pu$$y. I salute the honorable Congressman for calling this communist without a soul, without conscience out for what he is. Even a blind man can clearly see The Usurper is a complete and total LIAR. Congratulations, Mr. Wilson. You have a new supporter who last week never heard of you.

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

I think socialist is a better term for the President, but they are similar enough. The United States will never turn communist. It goes against EVERYTHING in the Constitution, and the process of checks and balances would halt any plan to make the country communist in its tracks.

[Spudd 0]

Well, it would be totally wrong for illegals to benefit from this healthcare, no matter which side of the debate you're on. The system is coming out of taxpayer pockets; regardless of Obama's claims that it won't, we all know better. (Even if it wouldn't raise taxes, "the government's money" comes out of our wallets.) The illegal aliens don't pay taxes, and shouldn't even be here, so we really shouldn't go out of our way to make them comfortable. What I heard was that while the bill never said it would cover illegal aliens, it didn't have any clause that said they couldn't be covered. Here's an article that I found that illustrates this well:

 

http://obamayoulie.com/

 

The site will most likely be edited at some point, so here's what it said to anyone reading this in future (This is a direct quote from the article):

September 9, 2009

 

President Barack Obama delivered a message to a joint session of Congress. The subject was health care. Part-way through the speech, Representative Joe Wilson, a Republican from South Carolina, shouted, "You lie!"

 

So, did the president lie?

 

NO:

Technically, no. The health care bill (HR3200) does not, technically, contain a provision to explicitly include illegal immigrants in its benefits. So, from a purely technical point of view, the president is telling the truth.

YES:

Illegal immigrants would eventually be covered by this health care bill for two reasons:

(1) There are no enforcement measures in the bill that would prevent them from using benefits, and (2) Democrats plan to file Comprehensive Immigration Reform legislation that would put illegal aliens on a "path to citizenship," and thus qualify them for benefits. This argument focuses on an expectation of what will actually happen in the future, regardless of the exact language or intent of the legislation at this time.

 

Keep in mind that, in order for a lie to be a lie, two criteria must exist: (1) the statement must be false, and (2) the person uttering the statement must know that he/she is stating a falsehood. The speaker must intend to bear false witness and do so of free will.

 

Therefore, in this particular case, in order for President Barack Obama to be lying in his speech, he must (1) be stating a falsehood, and (2) know that his statement is false and state it anyway, intentionally intending to deceive.

 

So... did President Barack Obama lie? You decide...

Anyway, apparently Senator Wilson had a little chat with Obama, and they will be adding some enforcement measures into the bill, which is a step in the right direction. Personally, I think the idea of government controlled healthcare is a terrible idea though. It's a waste of taxpayer dollars, and most of the uninsured are people who either don't want/need healthcare, or are between jobs and will get healthcare in the future. Either way, I don't believe it is a right for every American to be insured under healthcare, nor should it be required. At what point do we draw the line between what is privilege and what is a right? Should home insurance be a right? How about life insurance? Do we need the government to pay for our food and electricity too?

 

Also, this healthcare bill won't even kick in until 2013, so why is Obama in such a hurry to get it passed? The answer is simple: He can see that the debate is starting to turn in favor of abolishing his "public option," and that is why he wants to see it go through as soon as possible.

Notice from truefusion:

Direct quotes should be placed in quotes.

[rpgsearcherz 5]

I fully believe that the illegals *will* get health care under the reform. They are already getting a lot of benefits people don't know about. Some cities (Dallas, TX, for example) even hosts areas for them to find work at.I don't have any issues at all with "foreigners" being in the US. My issue is that everyone should be treated equally. If they come here to work, let them. If they are here to leech, kick them out.By the same token, I feel lazy Americans (although that classifies most of our classification) should also be kicked out.National health care is going to hurt the system more than help it. All it's doing is saying "Hey people.. If you don't want to work but still want great care, that's fine! We'll let our hard-working citizens do all the work for you!"The rich people got rich because they *wanted* to and put forth the work to earn it. The only thing holding others back from making millions is their lack of dedication or desire.So I don't believe those of us who work for what we have should be forced to give it to others (Illegals or not) who are too lazy to.

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

Exactly what socialism/communism is about. If you don't work/want to work, it doesn't matter, the government will cover your a**. There's no real motivation to work. Why waste years in college when you can work at McDonalds in high school. The government will subsidize you at the cost of people that work.Of course if you are unfit to work (disability, impairment or whatnot), I think that the government SHOULD help you out, since it isn't your fault, and it isn't fair for somebody else in your family to work more jobs to provide you with necessities. I don't mind paying more in taxes for that reason, but paying more in taxes for people fit to work and get their own healthcare is ridiculous.

[rpgsearcherz 5]

Exactly what socialism/communism is about. If you don't work/want to work, it doesn't matter, the government will cover your a**. There's no real motivation to work. Why waste years in college when you can work at McDonalds in high school. The government will subsidize you at the cost of people that work.
Of course if you are unfit to work (disability, impairment or whatnot), I think that the government SHOULD help you out, since it isn't your fault, and it isn't fair for somebody else in your family to work more jobs to provide you with necessities. I don't mind paying more in taxes for that reason, but paying more in taxes for people fit to work and get their own healthcare is ridiculous.

I believe there are a lot of people who are on SSI/Disability that shouldn't be as well. There are many people who pop up and say "Oh, they said I can get my life paid for because of xxx problem, so there's no reason for me to even try to do anything now!"

I think only certain *provable* things should be covered.

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

Oh yeah, I agree about that. There are tons of ways to work the system, exaggerate an injury, and all sorts of things. People that are legit disabled though, should get benefits, though sometimes it is impossible to tell if they are actually disabled or not.