Cash For Clunkers What do you think?

[sheepdog 10]

So, what do you think about this government program? It certainly seems popular, in a matter of days they went threw the original allotment of cash that was supposed to fund the entire program. Lots of people getting new cars, and I?m sure that?s good for at least the car manufacturers, and the dealers lots and car salesman. It seemed like a good idea at first, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder. But what about the big picture? For starters, people are generally trading in older, PAID FOR cars. Is it wise in an economic downtrend to go deeper in debt? And what about the rest of the economy, now that these people will be making car payments, will that not take away a great deal of their disposable income that would otherwise be spent on other things that would stimulate the economy as well? Can?t go out and eat dinner or go to a movie if you have that big car payment to make! And with the continued layoffs and job loss, aren?t the banks and lenders going to take another beating when all these cars start getting repossessed when their owners can?t pay for them? (I suppose the government will just bail them out again) You would think they would of wised up after the housing market crash. Another thing that concerns me is the disposal of the ?clunkers.? A news story I recently heard says that the cars are only going to certain salvagers, and many salvage yards are not able to get the cars. Sort of unfair about the distribution of the salvage cars. Another issue on the salvage side, since these trade in cars are supposed to be crushed, what about the rest of us who choose not to bust our budgets on a new car, and continue to drive our clunkers? Once all the parts are crushed and recycled into whatever, it is going to be really hard to find good used parts to keep our old junkers running. And the glut on the metal recycling certainly is not going to help anyone who junks for a living, scrap metal prices are already down, and I suspect will get lower yet. The thing that really bugs me though, is that most of our old clunkers that are being taken off the road don?t have GPS. Big Brother is defiantly watching us! Every where we go, they will know exactly where we are at all times. And by the way, did you know, if you happen to be late on a car payment, they can shut your car down and you can be stranded where every you are? I didn?t realize this until it actually happened to some people who stopped here one day. Can you imagine being on a trip far from home and being locked out of your car? What a disaster that could turn into!

[anwiii 17]

i think this whole cash for clunkers is a crock of @$%^ for many reason i wont go in to. but i can tell ya this. many new car dealerships would already be willing to give $3000 off a new car for a running clunker. the only different now is that the federal government is fronting the bill.

everyone is running to buy a new fuel efficient car. what happens when the demand for buying any new car run out in the next few years?

anyway, i don't want to get in to everything i believe that is wrong with this program. it's all b.s. in my opinion.

So, what do you think about this government program? It certainly seems popular, in a matter of days they went threw the original allotment of cash that was supposed to fund the entire program. Lots of people getting new cars, and Im sure thats good for at least the car manufacturers, and the dealers lots and car salesman. It seemed like a good idea at first, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder.
But what about the big picture? For starters, people are generally trading in older, PAID FOR cars. Is it wise in an economic downtrend to go deeper in debt? And what about the rest of the economy, now that these people will be making car payments, will that not take away a great deal of their disposable income that would otherwise be spent on other things that would stimulate the economy as well? Cant go out and eat dinner or go to a movie if you have that big car payment to make! And with the continued layoffs and job loss, arent the banks and lenders going to take another beating when all these cars start getting repossessed when their owners cant pay for them? (I suppose the government will just bail them out again) You would think they would of wised up after the housing market crash.

Another thing that concerns me is the disposal of the clunkers. A news story I recently heard says that the cars are only going to certain salvagers, and many salvage yards are not able to get the cars. Sort of unfair about the distribution of the salvage cars. Another issue on the salvage side, since these trade in cars are supposed to be crushed, what about the rest of us who choose not to bust our budgets on a new car, and continue to drive our clunkers? Once all the parts are crushed and recycled into whatever, it is going to be really hard to find good used parts to keep our old junkers running. And the glut on the metal recycling certainly is not going to help anyone who junks for a living, scrap metal prices are already down, and I suspect will get lower yet.

The thing that really bugs me though, is that most of our old clunkers that are being taken off the road dont have GPS. Big Brother is defiantly watching us! Every where we go, they will know exactly where we are at all times. And by the way, did you know, if you happen to be late on a car payment, they can shut your car down and you can be stranded where every you are? I didnt realize this until it actually happened to some people who stopped here one day. Can you imagine being on a trip far from home and being locked out of your car? What a disaster that could turn into!

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

I think that this plan is possibly the worst possible thing to do in this economy. Useful cars are being destroyed, and car dealerships can't use any of the parts. It is creating more waste in a poor attempt to "stimulate the economy". Instead a better thing would be to give people a grant to turn in their current cars for something more fuel efficient. Creating more waste is a terrible idea, and sure won't be to the approval to Al Gore, who is focused on stopped 100% of CO2 emissions. You brought up a good point about the cars being paid for, and now more loans are being taken out. This surely isn't going to help out this economy, but is going to be digging to hole deeper. Now there's going to be more repossessions, and more banks are going to be in debt and in need of a bailout. We're in the hole 11.5 trillion dollars, what's another bank bailout? The answer is more debt for our kids and grandchildren. The United States are going to be in debt for decades the way the mindless spending is going. Obama has really been going downhill from what most people thought he was going to be, as his approval rating is now lower than 50%. Unemployment is now higher than 8%, the amount that Obama promised that it wouldn't go above if his stimulus was passed. But that's another topic.

[rpgsearcherz 5]

I think the idea is just another mistake being made. The government is now stepping into so many areas they shouldn't be. At the current rate they are going to end up taking over the entire economy and they will choose prices for everything, they will tell us where we can buy items from and how many we can buy, etc.Every step they take is one more towards losing all of our "freedoms."

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

Eactly. The current Obama administration is looking to socialize medicine and the economy. The United States has been doing fine under democracy for over 200 years. Let's not change it, and turn this country socialist.

[rpgsearcherz 5]

Eactly. The current Obama administration is looking to socialize medicine and the economy. The United States has been doing fine under democracy for over 200 years. Let's not change it, and turn this country socialist.

The problem is most people don't understand what is going on and therefore won't stand up for themselves on it. "Ignorance is bliss."

I've spoken to many people to get them to understand the changes and what is going to happen because of them. The most common response I get is along the lines of "no, because Obama wouldn't do that." And then you have a lot of people who listen to every word they hear on CNN, FOX, etc. and take it as being 100% true.

These changes are going to go into effect because Americans (I know this is a generalization) are ignorant when it comes to government affairs. Most people either feel it wouldn't make a difference if they voted/said how they feel, or just don't know how to. They would rather wait until things are destroyed and then cry about how the changes they didn't want to stop ended up being destructive.

It's sad that those of us who know what is going on are forced to sit on the back-burners because there is nothing we can do with such a small number of people.

[sheepdog 10]

I certainly feel better now knowing I'm not alone in questioning the sanity of the Cash for Clunkers program! I have to admit, until I really thought about it, it didn't sound like such a bad deal. Just one of those things you really have to step back from and think long and hard about the future consquences. Anyway, it's not like we were going out and buy a new car anyway, our clunker gets 40 mpg, so it didn't qualify anyway.

These changes are going to go into effect because Americans (I know this is a generalization) are ignorant when it comes to government affairs

I have to completely agree with you. But there is just one problem. How in the heck to we educate ourselves???? Take the current health care reform bill, all 1200 or so pages of it. Who the heck has time to read 1200 pages, and considering it is written in lawyer speak, the average american couldn't understand it if they did try to read it. There was a lady who called in on a local radio talk show, Cracker Barrel this past sunday who said she made up her mind she was going to read it, and she said it took her 60-70 hours to read. And then she admited she had to ask a lawyer what a lot of it meant. Now just who has that much spare time on their hands to read all that mumbo jumbo? I sure don't. And I doubt our senators and represenatives do either. And you sure better not trust the media to give an honest apraisal of the proposed law. I was a lot more inclined to believe the lady that called in to the talk show, at least she tried to make sense of it, and acording to her, it was BAD!

[rpgsearcherz 5]

I certainly feel better now knowing I'm not alone in questioning the sanity of the Cash for Clunkers program! I have to admit, until I really thought about it, it didn't sound like such a bad deal. Just one of those things you really have to step back from and think long and hard about the future consquences. Anyway, it's not like we were going out and buy a new car anyway, our clunker gets 40 mpg, so it didn't qualify anyway.


I have to completely agree with you. But there is just one problem. How in the heck to we educate ourselves???? Take the current health care reform bill, all 1200 or so pages of it. Who the heck has time to read 1200 pages, and considering it is written in lawyer speak, the average american couldn't understand it if they did try to read it. There was a lady who called in on a local radio talk show, Cracker Barrel this past sunday who said she made up her mind she was going to read it, and she said it took her 60-70 hours to read. And then she admited she had to ask a lawyer what a lot of it meant. Now just who has that much spare time on their hands to read all that mumbo jumbo? I sure don't. And I doubt our senators and represenatives do either. And you sure better not trust the media to give an honest apraisal of the proposed law. I was a lot more inclined to believe the lady that called in to the talk show, at least she tried to make sense of it, and acording to her, it was BAD!

Almost always (if not always?) there are short and long versions. The short version pretty much states what the plan is. The longer version goes into specific details.

[anwiii 17]

haha how in the world did this thread turn so quickly on healthcare and an obama haters thread? all i have to say on that one is that if you can't stay on topic, then why argue about what other people are doing wrong. gimme a break.although i do see a lot of reasons why clash for clunkers should have never been a thought in anyones mind, it IS helping individuals directly. this is NOT worsening the economy, but strengthening it by the loans given out to people. hopefully this time the banks are running proper credit checks and references. this directly HELPS the economy when the banks were so tight with their money after the economy crashed. so whoever said it's bad for the economy should think again. what it DOESN'T help actually(in the long run) are the dealerships because there is such a thing as supply and demand.as sheepdog had said as well, it only benefits those that are in the market for a new car and up until the cash is depleted. although...this is with any form of government help...including grants and loans...so this isn't anything new....so i guess if you snooze, you lose. beggers can't be choosers etc....etc...

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

I disagree with you about these loans being benefitial to the economy. If the loan companies can think twice aboout who they're giving a loan, it COULD POSSIBLY help the economy. But I think this program will just put people into further debt. About this turning into an Obama thread, I'll make a thread for him.

[Phoenix.Illusion 0]

So, what do you think about this government program? It certainly seems popular, in a matter of days they went threw the original allotment of cash that was supposed to fund the entire program. Lots of people getting new cars, and I’m sure that’s good for at least the car manufacturers, and the dealers lots and car salesman. It seemed like a good idea at first, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder.
But what about the big picture? For starters, people are generally trading in older, PAID FOR cars. Is it wise in an economic downtrend to go deeper in debt? And what about the rest of the economy, now that these people will be making car payments, will that not take away a great deal of their disposable income that would otherwise be spent on other things that would stimulate the economy as well? Can’t go out and eat dinner or go to a movie if you have that big car payment to make! And with the continued layoffs and job loss, aren’t the banks and lenders going to take another beating when all these cars start getting repossessed when their owners can’t pay for them? (I suppose the government will just bail them out again) You would think they would of wised up after the housing market crash.

Another thing that concerns me is the disposal of the “clunkers.” A news story I recently heard says that the cars are only going to certain salvagers, and many salvage yards are not able to get the cars. Sort of unfair about the distribution of the salvage cars. Another issue on the salvage side, since these trade in cars are supposed to be crushed, what about the rest of us who choose not to bust our budgets on a new car, and continue to drive our clunkers? Once all the parts are crushed and recycled into whatever, it is going to be really hard to find good used parts to keep our old junkers running. And the glut on the metal recycling certainly is not going to help anyone who junks for a living, scrap metal prices are already down, and I suspect will get lower yet.

The thing that really bugs me though, is that most of our old clunkers that are being taken off the road don’t have GPS. Big Brother is defiantly watching us! Every where we go, they will know exactly where we are at all times. And by the way, did you know, if you happen to be late on a car payment, they can shut your car down and you can be stranded where every you are? I didn’t realize this until it actually happened to some people who stopped here one day. Can you imagine being on a trip far from home and being locked out of your car? What a disaster that could turn into!

I also disagree with you as well.
These loans are no good to the economy.
The loan companys just need to watch out.
Edited August 11, 2009 by Dark Archer (see edit history)

[rayzoredge 2]

I disagree with you about these loans being benefitial to the economy. If the loan companies can think twice aboout who they're giving a loan, it COULD POSSIBLY help the economy. But I think this program will just put people into further debt.

I'll second that notion, but with the assumed condition that I'm going to lay out here.

 

If you are the proud owner of a piece-of-crap car, van, truck, or what-have-you, it's probably because you've been holding out on buying a newer car or because you can't afford a newer car. Why buy a new car when your older one works just as well? (It's also a funny thing how one of the incentives is a more fuel-efficient vehicle... when you look at EPA ratings - which is a joke in itself - from the 80's and 90's and see a number of vehicles that are actually more fuel-efficient than their next-generation successors. Look at how the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic MPG ratings have gone down, 1 MPG at a time per year, it seems.) Now, if you can't afford a car but now have perked interest thanks to this government program to get up to $4500 for your piece of crap, does that mean that you can now afford a brand-new car from $12,000 and up? Typically, a decent passenger vehicle at MSRP figures about $22,000. Now we're going to finance $17,500? Over how long? And can anyone really afford that if they were trying to make their clunker last in the first place? I don't know about you, but I pay about $240 a month financed over 5 years for my used 2003 Honda Civic EX standard, and that was a $11,000 car when I bought it in 2006. $240 is borderline on the hefty side. Now think about paying for this brand new vehicle over 5 years with a decent markup on the principal that you'll end up paying over the finance duration... we'll say a total of $22,000... which incidentally was what your clunker traded in for. That number is a scary $350 per month, ladies and gentlemen. Now, if you had a clunker BECAUSE you couldn't afford a new vehicle... can you afford $350 a month for the next 5 years? Or will you start the payment discipline, have something go awry in life, and have your brand new car repo'd by the bank, which now takes a loss in trying to sell the car for less at an auction or at a dealership (because the dealership has to make some money, right?). That same bank deals with more than just your vehicle and takes risks with consumers and their houses, their business ventures, and other private loans. If they don't get a return on investment with all of them, interest and miscellaneous banking fees won't pay off the thousands of dollars they lose out on trying to sell your repossessed car.

 

(This plays into the whole closed-mind, sheep mindset that rpgsearcherz pointed out. Not a lot of people think from outside the box, and not everyone sees the whole picture. Try factoring this example I laid out into the state of the economy.)

[anwiii 17]

ye with no faith. the economy run when money exchanges hands. i'm not really a first believer in credit, but it DOES help money exchange hands. this directly HELPS the economy whether you agree or disagree doesn't really matter. yes, possibilty of long term loan failure again. what's new though. it's easy enough to repo the car, buy it back at auction and resell it. like i said. nothing new. this is how we got by for years and years...i don't however agree with the government promoting people purchasing with credit though. i'm a firm believer that if you don't have the cash, don't buy it. if you DO have the cash, i do believe in purchasing with credit as long as you can make more with the loan money than the interest rate they charge for the loan. otherwise, again....i am against credit.

also, anyone who buys at msrp is a sucker has anyone really ever paid full price. try taking 4k off that original figure. and yup! you come up with over $300 a month. a hefty entertainment or emergency fund cut.

I disagree with you about these loans being benefitial to the economy. If the loan companies can think twice aboout who they're giving a loan, it COULD POSSIBLY help the economy. But I think this program will just put people into further debt.
About this turning into an Obama thread, I'll make a thread for him.

[TheDisturbedOne 1]

Buying at MSRP is stupid. In fact buying a car new is stupid. You could get a used, last year's model of that car with 10,000 miles on it for thousands less than a new car. Good point about the buying on credit thing. I don't plan on getting a credit card anytime in the future (and currently don't have one). The only reasons why I may get one is so that I can buy things online (which is only a little easier than using a debt card) and I'll have the money until the end of the month, so it can collect intrest in the bank. The way America is currently, everybody lives in the moment, so they'll buy and buy no matter how little money they have. I have family that own apartments in a city, and when I go there to do work a great amount of the people there have expensive cars, a large television, and no job. This usually leads to eviction, or being supported by welfare. It seems like nobody knows how to save money these days which leads to recessions. Oh and I'm not saying that it is completely terrible to use credit to buy something. After all, who has a spare $200,000 to pay for a house in cash.

[rpgsearcherz 5]

Buying at MSRP is stupid. In fact buying a car new is stupid. You could get a used, last year's model of that car with 10,000 miles on it for thousands less than a new car.
Good point about the buying on credit thing. I don't plan on getting a credit card anytime in the future (and currently don't have one). The only reasons why I may get one is so that I can buy things online (which is only a little easier than using a debt card) and I'll have the money until the end of the month, so it can collect intrest in the bank.

The way America is currently, everybody lives in the moment, so they'll buy and buy no matter how little money they have. I have family that own apartments in a city, and when I go there to do work a great amount of the people there have expensive cars, a large television, and no job. This usually leads to eviction, or being supported by welfare. It seems like nobody knows how to save money these days which leads to recessions.

Oh and I'm not saying that it is completely terrible to use credit to buy something. After all, who has a spare $200,000 to pay for a house in cash.

I have a cousin who stayed at "home" (with his parents) until he was 26. At that point he bought a brand new up-to-year car, house, and all the furnishings he needed, in pure cash. He was 26 years old with 0 debt.

I personally use credit only when I have the cash available. I have a perfect credit rating (According to my CC companies - I have 6 credit cards, 3 of which I've had for over 5 years, and none of them have ever had an interest payment. Every transaction was paid in full. My APR right now is below 6% on each of the cards, and that's not an "introductory rate.")

I agree that people need to quit living in the moment. Planning your future will easily lead you to being much more comfortable/rich than not doing so.