The Windows 7 Experience... How do beta testers feel about the new M OS?

[rayzoredge 2]

We've heard initial bashings and have Tramposch's benchmarks. I'm sure a good number of you have download, installed, and experienced the beta build. What are your thoughts on it?

I've read quite a bit just now about what Windows 7 has to offer, thanks to Paul Thurrott's Windows site. There are a number of things that I can see as vast improvements as well as new, cool features, but there are also a number of things that disconcert me in wondering if the new and improved Windows is really new and improved underneath the hood.

Windows 7 brings into play a semblance of Microsoft's WinFS file system with its library feature, which in the sense of being able to organize and query things by meta-data (view selective pictures by date, songs filtered by artist, etc.) is an awesome deal, but the whole virtual filing system worries me as far as actually organizing your personal pictures, videos, documents, and what-have-you. Everything sounds like it's simply thrown into one folder that Windows now calls Personal Documents, and what you see out of that folder utilizing the query service is filtered by what you place for a query. To people who plan on sticking with Windows 7, this might not be a problem, but it doesn't seem very nice that Windows uses a false pretense for a folder/directory tree and makes you think that all your family photos are in your "Family Photos" folder when in fact it's thrown into a mess with your travel photos, your home videos, and whatnot.

The taskbar seems like a potential nightmare as far as actual usability. With so many functions and so many ways to get to those functions, not to mention that if you opt for the simplified look which leads to instant confusion as to what is a shortcut, what is a running application, etc., it looks like as far as user friendliness goes, the taskbar is setting consumers in for a world of hurt and re-familiarization. It looks nice, and it looks clean, but it doesn't help out if it takes you a few tries just to get to something.

Something that scares me is that with the Vista infrastructure too is that with the same code come the same faults. It looks like benchmark performance is "in the ballpark with Vista" for local file transfers and transfers over a network, which still means meaningless Microsoft minutes and longer-than-expected copy-and-paste and move tasks. That does not impress me at all, but I'm sure that Microsoft will address this issue and polish up how the operating system will handle files and not repeat Vista's inefficiency.

There are things that looked good in Windows 7, though, which actually makes things easier on the mind about migrating to this OS. I liked the concept of the homegroup, which looks like a dummy-proof way on networking and filesharing. No more tricky workarounds, no more technical jargon on trying to get network sharing to work. (Not like I had a problem with sharing on XP anyway.)

Instant-wakeup seems like an awesome feature. Taking just a second or so to wake up from standby and having immediate network access sounds like a good deal to me. Standby mode, however, doesn't seem to actually save any power, but maybe power settings are more efficient in W7, and this is somewhat evident with my next pointer.

Smart power for network devices in W7 prevents wasted power by disabling power to devices not being used... like the example of an unused Ethernet port. W7 will actually not power that port until you connect it with an Ethernet cable to another device, in which it would "wake up" that port and resume functionality as usual. Cool? Yes. It makes me wonder if this feature also applies to other devices that eat up power that can possibly be turned off without affecting overall functionality... like turning off a modem chip, a Bluetooth module, etc.

Also, here's a cool plus for software compatibility:

If an application refuses to install or run, the Program Compatibility Troubleshooter can generally fix things automatically, as in Vista. But a crucial new tool called the Problem Steps Recorder can be used in businesses to visually demonstrate what went wrong when applications don't behave as expected; administrators and other technical users can then implement fixes, generally without having to physically visit the problem PC, which may be at a remote location.

'nuff said. Awesome move on Microsoft's part, assuming that it works as described.

The Play To feature in Windows Media Player 12 that comes with W7 sounds like another great, easy way to stream media anywhere to supported devices around your home... such as an Xbox 360. The fact that you won't have to add things to the library manually anymore is a huge plus, considering that this was one of my personal gripes about streaming media to my 360 with WMP 11. (I love it when things just work.)

User Access Control is now less annoying, and you can actually change how you're notified about things (like whether you want to actually have it actually ask you for permission or never let you know about anything).

The Windows Solution Center is the new Security Center from XP... and what's nice about it is that it's less annoying (if even), plus it consolidates all your security features (firewall, antivirus, updates, etc.).

Device Stage is another cool gig that I think would benefit the prevention of throwing on all the bloatware that comes with your new printers and other multi-function gadgets that require their own proprietary software. Now, instead of installing that 300MB software package that HP wants you to have to enjoy full functionality of your multi-function printer/scanner/copier/yada, you can use Device Stage and access all those functions from one place. (You can actually skip the install in XP, but the functions are split with the Camera and Scanner Wizard, the usual printing dialog, etc.)

One last thing that I'd like to mention about decent things about Windows 7 is that all drivers are going to be based on the Vista model. Initial reception with having to develop Vista drivers for everything wasn't exactly fun, but with Vista taking the blow as the "OS that didn't work" and Windows 7 taking the reigns at a time where Vista is more viable as far as drivers go, Windows 7 will avoid that hit without too many people even noticing. No more driver incompatibility!

So with all of this said and done, who can confirm all of this? What do you guys like and don't like? Would you recommend that users holding onto XP actually move up to Windows 7?

[Echo_of_thunder 1]

well not being able to use windows 7 I do not know for myself how it would be, only from what I have been hearing over the net and all the blogs. My personal feelings are it will be a vast inprovement over Vista. or Lasta as some call it. Very stable and most likely the most stable OS since win98. But you also have to take into account a few things too,1 It is a build, they are still working on it and all the drivers and things needed before the put it on the market.2. it only has been let out in beta now for almost a week. you really can not make any hard facts of a progeam in that short of a time.taking these 2 things I would say just to wait and see attitude like I have. I will say this. Just like I have before. that 1st SP is gonna be a biggy

[dualstriker 0]

Since it is still in the beta stage and released just weeks ago, companies still do not support it. As of now, stepping up from XP to Windows 7 will be up to the user. If you like to tinker with the OS and learn how to use it, then go for it, If you have no time to find out how things work, then stick to XP for the meantime. I, for one, changed from XP to Windows 7 because I was curious if it is better than Vista since Vista lags in comparison with XP. (It took Vista longer to load on a better computer than XP in a crappy one.) Also, I thought of reformatting my HDD because it was really messy already with lots of stuff that I do not need anymore. If ever something arises from Windows 7, I'll just backup all my files and reformat it to XP again.

[Parubilla 0]

I just know that I'm not going to switch from XP to the next OS until it's completely stable and works really well. I don't like Vista so I'm going to wait a little bit until I get really good reviews from the next OS for pc's. XD

[Tramposch 1]

The taskbar seems like a potential nightmare as far as actual usability. With so many functions and so many ways to get to those functions, not to mention that if you opt for the simplified look which leads to instant confusion as to what is a shortcut, what is a running application, etc., it looks like as far as user friendliness goes, the taskbar is setting consumers in for a world of hurt and re-familiarization. It looks nice, and it looks clean, but it doesn't help out if it takes you a few tries just to get to something.

I think it will actually be adopted quite nicely. It organizes items very efficiently, and you can tell when things are open, how many windows of each program are open, and if there is an alert on the window (though it isn't extremely noticeable, depending on your display settings). Opened and closed programs are very distinguishable. An open program has a border around it to make it looks raised while closed programs just show the logo (if pinned to the taskbar, otherwise they do not show). I have used it with each different grouping setting and the default, icons with tabs, is by far the easiest. It makes getting to windows rather easy, especially ones from the same program. Additionally, being able to pin programs right to the bar is nice, no need to open the start menu to get to them.

Something that scares me is that with the Vista infrastructure too is that with the same code come the same faults. It looks like benchmark performance is "in the ballpark with Vista" for local file transfers and transfers over a network, which still means meaningless Microsoft minutes and longer-than-expected copy-and-paste and move tasks. That does not impress me at all, but I'm sure that Microsoft will address this issue and polish up how the operating system will handle files and not repeat Vista's inefficiency.

Generally I have noticed faster transfers. While they are nothing to gawk about, it is something. However, I would note this more to better use of resources than simply being able to do it faster.

There are things that looked good in Windows 7, though, which actually makes things easier on the mind about migrating to this OS. I liked the concept of the homegroup, which looks like a dummy-proof way on networking and filesharing. No more tricky workarounds, no more technical jargon on trying to get network sharing to work. (Not like I had a problem with sharing on XP anyway.)

HomeGroup is by far one of the best features. It really makes networking easy. If you thought it was easy in Vista (which it really was, between Vista machines...Adding an XP machine in there could cause a snarl), Windows 7 provides completely idiot proof networking. Sharing files and devices has never been easier. Except maybe in Bonjour on Mac OS X, but that is a bit different.

Instant-wakeup seems like an awesome feature. Taking just a second or so to wake up from standby and having immediate network access sounds like a good deal to me. Standby mode, however, doesn't seem to actually save any power, but maybe power settings are more efficient in W7, and this is somewhat evident with my next pointer.
Smart power for network devices in W7 prevents wasted power by disabling power to devices not being used... like the example of an unused Ethernet port. W7 will actually not power that port until you connect it with an Ethernet cable to another device, in which it would "wake up" that port and resume functionality as usual. Cool? Yes. It makes me wonder if this feature also applies to other devices that eat up power that can possibly be turned off without affecting overall functionality... like turning off a modem chip, a Bluetooth module, etc.

Wake ups are incredibly fast. It takes a few seconds to get to the login screen - no matter how long you have been away. As for power, it is hard for me to test, but I would think that it would be more efficient.

I have noticed smart power turning off my webcam and ethernet port. Sometimes at not very convenient times. It won't turn off my external hard drive, though. That is a pretty big power eater.

User Access Control is now less annoying, and you can actually change how you're notified about things (like whether you want to actually have it actually ask you for permission or never let you know about anything).
The Windows Solution Center is the new Security Center from XP... and what's nice about it is that it's less annoying (if even), plus it consolidates all your security features (firewall, antivirus, updates, etc.).

UAC has definitely approved. You can set it to different levels of annoyingness. Anywhere from Vista annoying to not annoying at all (off). I have it set to the second lowest level. It will notify me if there is anything dangerous going on, but otherwise it keeps quiet.

The Solution Center is also a great feature. But what I think needs at least an honorable mention is the Action Center. It displays all alerts in one place on the task bar. It makes it easy to see if your virus protection is missing or needs an update or if you have updates available.

Device Stage is another cool gig that I think would benefit the prevention of throwing on all the bloatware that comes with your new printers and other multi-function gadgets that require their own proprietary software. Now, instead of installing that 300MB software package that HP wants you to have to enjoy full functionality of your multi-function printer/scanner/copier/yada, you can use Device Stage and access all those functions from one place. (You can actually skip the install in XP, but the functions are split with the Camera and Scanner Wizard, the usual printing dialog, etc.)

I haven't been able to use this much, as I don't have many devices to use it with. But from what I have read it is going to be very useful for printer sharing, and like you said, using your devices without the crapware you "need" to install. It is a great idea by Microsoft and allows you to see all devices connected all in one area, making it easy to access any one of them and use it however you need. It will be interesting to see its full capabilities.

One last thing that I'd like to mention about decent things about Windows 7 is that all drivers are going to be based on the Vista model. Initial reception with having to develop Vista drivers for everything wasn't exactly fun, but with Vista taking the blow as the "OS that didn't work" and Windows 7 taking the reigns at a time where Vista is more viable as far as drivers go, Windows 7 will avoid that hit without too many people even noticing. No more driver incompatibility!

All I have to for this is to vouch that all my Vista drivers work so far. They work without any major problems. I don't say any because my computer has some incompatibility issue with one device or another. I can't figure it out. But that is unrelated.

So with all of this said and done, who can confirm all of this? What do you guys like and don't like? Would you recommend that users holding onto XP actually move up to Windows 7?

The only thing I don't like about Windows 7 is the invisible windows feature. I find it almost pointless. If you want to view gadgets (which can now be placed anywhere on your desktop), it is useful. But it looks like an attempt to recreate OS X's expose feature to show all applications and be able to select one (like Flip3D or the ALT+TAB window switcher, but better). Also the window shake feature is just dumb. I can't see anybody using it much. If you don't know what it is, you click hold on a window and shake it and it minimizes all other windows. Not very useful for me.

I mentioned the ability to put gadgets anywhere. That is nice, even though I don't really use many gadgets. I hated the sidebar. And this is one step closer to the Mac OS X dashboard (sorry for all the Mac comparisons, but I think OS X is the closest OS to perfect that is currently available). Being able to place gadgets where you want not only enables you to have a lot more gadgets, but you can order them more efficiently.

Regarding your last question. I would definitely suggest all Windows users upgrade to Windows 7. Microsoft is dropping XP early 2010. That means fewer updates and more possible vulnerabilities. Additionally, it is always good to have a the most updated OS. And if you get a new computer, it is a no-brainer to get the newest OS with it.

[dualstriker 0]

I just encountered something while using Windows 7. I was unzipping the wordpress zip file that I just got from the wordpress site. After unzipping it, if I open any program at all, I get an error message saying "The filename or extension is too long." in every program I open and windows explorer would not respond. Anybody had that already?

[Tramposch 1]

Hasn't happened to me. Report it to Microsoft. I will watch out for that though.

[dualstriker 0]

What is the site to report it? Is the Send Feedback enough? I also think that it happens when something went wrong in the file extraction because I was able to extract other Zip files no problem, but when I unzipped another, it happened again.

[Tramposch 1]

Send Feedback is the best method. You can use the desktop link, or the link in the top of each window. I would just recommend using a third party extractor like 7zip or Winrar. I have yet to encounter a problem with those 2 on Windows 7.

[anheizhiye 0]

In beta product,having some problems is really common.I suggest you can report it to microsoft and wait for reponse.Like fellow above says,using a third party extractor like 7zip or Winrar,is a best way ! I used those extractor too!It's really useful and stable!Try it.Good luck to u!

[rayzoredge 2]

I'm actually going to be delving more into Windows 7, because it just occurred to me that I have a Dell kicking around that had Vista on it. (Old GF's computer... but I guess it's mine now.)

 

So figuring that I needed Vista and SP1, I started on the install for SP1 while downloading and burning the Windows 7 beta install DVD... and then I found out in mid-SP1 install that I could just install a fresh copy of W7. (I was using two computers simultaneously.) Installation was pretty typical of a Windows OS, I would say, give or take less dialogs asking for regional settings and such. Boot time was decent... I didn't time it with a stopwatch or anything, but I did notice that it took less time than it does my current XP installation on my HP zd8000 and less time than that computer did with Vista.

 

I started exploring and installing things, taking into consideration that I could now take advantage of the 64-bit system (as the Dell I have now has an AMD 64 Turion processor). I found out that the latest versions of MagicDisc and RocketDock don't play nicely with W7, resulting in hangs (that I could still do other things, but Explorer was basically bust when I tried copying things from an image or accessing My Computer from RocketDock), and Firefox 3.0.5 has the simple irritation of not being able to press Enter from the search bar. (Pressing Enter is unresponsive, but you can go to the Google site and search from there.) I installed Microsoft Office XP without a hitch but haven't tried working with it yet. (I refuse to upgrade to 2007 thanks to the .***x extension which monopolizes compatibility with that suite.) Windows Media Player 12 doesn't like working after messing with RocketDock or MagicDisc, but from a fresh boot, seems to work fine. The look and feel of the OS just feels like Vista to me with a few UI changes... and I'm not sure if I'll get used to it and actually like it until I work with it exclusively for quite some time.

 

I forced Aero using a registry hack (Google for "aero Windows 7" to try it out if you have a system that doesn't allow Aero personalization) and it actually works surprisingly well with this Dell Inspiron 1501 (which has integrated graphics, I must mention). Slight lag, but like I said, it surprised me. The Aero peek is nice, but I thought it was retarded because I could just move my cursor to the bottom right to click for Show Desktop. So far, Aero reminds me of Ubuntu's Compiz/Beryl, which really isn't innovatingly-amazing, but I do appreciate the eye candy.

 

I installed World of Goo without a hitch, and ran it but didn't get a chance to play it. I don't have a heck of a game selection that I can run on this laptop that won't break the system (since it only sports a Intel 1.8 GHz Duo Core, 1GB RAM, and integrated graphics), so I can't comment on much about how games run on it... not to mention that I don't have a dual boot setup going to compare. (I'm being selfish here... I'm only doing this for my experience and I'm waiting to see how benchmarks compare later.)

 

Instant wake-up is awesome and works as advertised. It's literally like shaking your mouse to wake up from screensaver... the computer wakes up that quickly. The taskbar can be confusing to the untrained eye, but a quick fix of customizing how your taskbar looks fixes that. I don't like how much real estate it takes on my screen with the slight growth, but that's just a gripe and it's not that big of a deal. UAC was actually still kind of annoying at the minimal setting (yes, I gave it a chance), so I just turned it off. That itself required a restart (which really wasn't too much of a surprise), but afterwards, UAC stopped bothering me, and I had administrative rights to my computer as an administrator again. (W00t!)

 

So far, I'm impressed as to how it feels like it works better than Vista, but at the same time I'm not impressed as to how it feels like it works LIKE Vista. (But duh... it has a Vista code platform.) I'll be exploring this more when I get the time and throw out my own opinions... and maybe, just maybe, I'll have an OS I can feel a bit more confident in upgrading to.

 

Addendum (01/30/2009):

 

More gripes...

 

Explorer hung on me when I tried copying files from my external (connected via USB) to the video library with three copy tasks in tandem. Most of the files made it through, but the OS froze completely.

 

Windows Media Player 12 was a disappointment too, not being able to stream to my 360. It sees it, but my 360 doesn't see my computer in Media Center or WMP12. Sadly, that's quite a dealbreaker there, since I was planning on using this Dell to be the main streaming machine in my house. After doing some outside research, it looks like even if I were to be able to stream to the 360, the quality of the stream is very poor, which kind of kills the whole point.

 

It will be nice when/if everything works, since I actually see potential in Windows 7. Right now, it's not meeting my needs.

Edited January 31, 2009 by rayzoredge (see edit history)

[tridge 0]

I installed 64-bit version on my rig and I am actually fond of it. I'm not sure the exact use for the window outlines when you use the "show desktop" in the lower right corner. Can someone answer the question?

[rayzoredge 2]

I installed 64-bit version on my rig and I am actually fond of it. I'm not sure the exact use for the window outlines when you use the "show desktop" in the lower right corner. Can someone answer the question?

Literally, it's just to see what's on your desktop. Clicking on it will actually minimize everything to bring you back to your desktop.

[windzor 0]

One thing I dont like about windows 7 is that i can't delete "Recycle bin" icon from desktop.

[fadillzzz 0]

I'm actually going to be delving more into Windows 7, because it just occurred to me that I have a Dell kicking around that had Vista on it. (Old GF's computer... but I guess it's mine now.)

 

So figuring that I needed Vista and SP1, I started on the install for SP1 while downloading and burning the Windows 7 beta install DVD... and then I found out in mid-SP1 install that I could just install a fresh copy of W7. (I was using two computers simultaneously.) Installation was pretty typical of a Windows OS, I would say, give or take less dialogs asking for regional settings and such. Boot time was decent... I didn't time it with a stopwatch or anything, but I did notice that it took less time than it does my current XP installation on my HP zd8000 and less time than that computer did with Vista.

 

I started exploring and installing things, taking into consideration that I could now take advantage of the 64-bit system (as the Dell I have now has an AMD 64 Turion processor). I found out that the latest versions of MagicDisc and RocketDock don't play nicely with W7, resulting in hangs (that I could still do other things, but Explorer was basically bust when I tried copying things from an image or accessing My Computer from RocketDock), and Firefox 3.0.5 has the simple irritation of not being able to press Enter from the search bar. (Pressing Enter is unresponsive, but you can go to the Google site and search from there.) I installed Microsoft Office XP without a hitch but haven't tried working with it yet. (I refuse to upgrade to 2007 thanks to the .***x extension which monopolizes compatibility with that suite.) Windows Media Player 12 doesn't like working after messing with RocketDock or MagicDisc, but from a fresh boot, seems to work fine. The look and feel of the OS just feels like Vista to me with a few UI changes... and I'm not sure if I'll get used to it and actually like it until I work with it exclusively for quite some time.

 

I forced Aero using a registry hack (Google for "aero Windows 7" to try it out if you have a system that doesn't allow Aero personalization) and it actually works surprisingly well with this Dell Inspiron 1501 (which has integrated graphics, I must mention). Slight lag, but like I said, it surprised me. The Aero peek is nice, but I thought it was retarded because I could just move my cursor to the bottom right to click for Show Desktop. So far, Aero reminds me of Ubuntu's Compiz/Beryl, which really isn't innovatingly-amazing, but I do appreciate the eye candy.

 

I installed World of Goo without a hitch, and ran it but didn't get a chance to play it. I don't have a heck of a game selection that I can run on this laptop that won't break the system (since it only sports a Intel 1.8 GHz Duo Core, 1GB RAM, and integrated graphics), so I can't comment on much about how games run on it... not to mention that I don't have a dual boot setup going to compare. (I'm being selfish here... I'm only doing this for my experience and I'm waiting to see how benchmarks compare later.)

 

Instant wake-up is awesome and works as advertised. It's literally like shaking your mouse to wake up from screensaver... the computer wakes up that quickly. The taskbar can be confusing to the untrained eye, but a quick fix of customizing how your taskbar looks fixes that. I don't like how much real estate it takes on my screen with the slight growth, but that's just a gripe and it's not that big of a deal. UAC was actually still kind of annoying at the minimal setting (yes, I gave it a chance), so I just turned it off. That itself required a restart (which really wasn't too much of a surprise), but afterwards, UAC stopped bothering me, and I had administrative rights to my computer as an administrator again. (W00t!)

 

So far, I'm impressed as to how it feels like it works better than Vista, but at the same time I'm not impressed as to how it feels like it works LIKE Vista. (But duh... it has a Vista code platform.) I'll be exploring this more when I get the time and throw out my own opinions... and maybe, just maybe, I'll have an OS I can feel a bit more confident in upgrading to.

 

Addendum (01/30/2009):

 

More gripes...

 

Explorer hung on me when I tried copying files from my external (connected via USB) to the video library with three copy tasks in tandem. Most of the files made it through, but the OS froze completely.

 

Windows Media Player 12 was a disappointment too, not being able to stream to my 360. It sees it, but my 360 doesn't see my computer in Media Center or WMP12. Sadly, that's quite a dealbreaker there, since I was planning on using this Dell to be the main streaming machine in my house. After doing some outside research, it looks like even if I were to be able to stream to the 360, the quality of the stream is very poor, which kind of kills the whole point.

 

It will be nice when/if everything works, since I actually see potential in Windows 7. Right now, it's not meeting my needs.

i guess people should stay using Windows XP, at least untill Windows 7 is not Beta anymore