Racism

[Sean Foster 0]

I am in no way racist or prejudiced toward any type of group, but there are certain things that I wonder about such as: why is it okay to have NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) but it is considered "racist" if we had the NAAWP (National Association for the Advancement of White People)? Why is there the United Negro College Fund but it would be racist to create the United Caucasion College Fund? Why is it okay to have "Gay Pride" marches but not "Straight Pride" marches? Why is it that a top candidate can be turned down for a job and a "lesser" candidate hired to comply with racial quotas?I mean no disrespect by these questions and I hold nothing against anyone for these situations. If I offend anyone, please know that it was not my intent. These are just questions that I have and I thought they could be the topic of a good discussion.

Edited August 30, 2007 by Sean Foster (see edit history)

[OpaQue 15]

May be due to uplifted of minority or something ?Something like Quotas for Women but no Quotas for men.

[velma 6]

@ OpaQue :- That is called spam in our forum :XD: Men don't have a quota for there are a lot of men present against the number of women present in India right?I guess these organizations were started to benefit the people who really needed them. Like quota for women to make sure that they were safe, educated and all. The reason people get insulted when white people do the same is because they feel that the white race is mocking the colored race or something. But I do feel that you have a point when you say that ****lesser*** people get a far more chance than the ones who are actually capable. A member called hateheals says that half the students in his Engineering class are only there because they are in the minority section. It disappoints me for they are neither smart or capable but are there in the field as they would get a high pay after they get their degrees :)When these organizations were begun, they were started to help either a dying race of people or to help ones who were abused. I refer to a group of people as a tribe here. But as time went on, people got more corrupt, greedy, insecure, materialistic and used their race to get ahead. I do not say that it happens every where but it does happen.Go around the forum a bit, you will find a few topics related to the one you made. One is called Nepotism..... The other is written by hateheals. There is one more I just cannot remember...

[TikiPrincess 0]

I felt the same way for awhile, despite the fact that I'm a "minority." Because Asians and Pacific Islanders are considered the "model minority" and usually do a good job of assimilating into the American culture, we don't get the kind of "kick-backs" that other racial/ethnic groups get. In fact, getting into college was even more competitive since over-achieving Asians had to compete with each other for a select number of spots.But we were still able to celebrate our ethnic/racial heritage and culture, unlike the white students. I discussed it with one of my friends, who's black, about the whole idea of reverse racism or people being racist against whites. Thankfully, she's the type of person you can have this kind of conversation with and not get into a huge argument about race issues. She doesn't bring up the whole slavery issue as a blanket statement, but rather as a situation that created a mentality which has persisted throughout American history and shaped the black perspective in America.The way she explained it to me is that while black people and other minorities can be racist against whites, the control of power in this country is still largely in the hands of white males. Because minorities lack the individual power to create change and because they are still, for the most part, subject to prejudice, they must form groups and coalitions to gain leverage. Whites, on the other hand, are still the dominant race whether they are a population majority or not. Even in California, perhaps the most liberal state where minorities make up a greater percentage of the population than whites, the state legislature has been predominately white. Despite the fact that we seem to love electing actors to the governor's office, the majority of governors have also been white males.So aside from incidences where whites are passed over for an ethnic minority, the race overall still controls the country and has a degree of power over the rest. Therefore, there's no need to band together against oppression. A white individual has the status and power to fight for him/herself.Anyways, that's how she explained it to me and it seemed to make sense. Minorities don't have the individual power to make their racism count.

[salamangkero 0]

Funny I came across this thread; I was reading a fictional novel about a judge who once tackled a case like this. All in all, there are arguments that support minority groups. While we all (or most of us) would like to have a world of equality, there is no denying that some groups have, in the past, suffered at the hands of mainstream society. If we were to impose absolute equality rules now, it's paramount to saying that "We'll have absolutely fair rules in this race but you blacks, Asians, Hispanics and homos will have to start where you are right now, which is, unfortunately, several leagues behind the whites."Also, in some institutions, like colleges, for example, it is advantageous to have a demography that mirrors that of the outside world. As such, some campuses cannot simply accept all whites into their school, never mind if they actually scored higher. If they did that, the culture would also be predominantly white, which poses a problem for the school's image, and for the students themselves, once these students graduate and venture into the outside world.Also, since they are, after all, minority, it is perfectly understandable to gravitate towards those whose situations are similar to theirs. Members of the majority have little need for such mechanisms because they rarely feel the same threat felt by members of the minority. Hence, we have gay pride parades but no straight pride. Wouldn't it be interesting if there were, though? I wonder what they'd be wearing :XD:

[Unstoppable 0]

Well, where I live I get the feeling that the original people are getting discriminated in any way.Most foreign people (no offense) can call us anything they want, but if we treat them the same way, it is treated as racism. So is it normal that there is only a 1-way-racism? I really don't like the current situation... For example, moslims here are angry because they can't wear their headgear (dunno what it's called) when working, and now they write in the newspaper they they want no more Christmas, Easter or anything else related to the christian religion. Is it also normal that people that emigrated to another country come and dictate the law? Please comment me if I'm wrong... Again, no offense to any cultures or so, I respect them, but not the extremism here and elsewhere.

[Mermaid711 0]

At Unstopable:That kind of racism is called a double standard. Basiclly, white people are known to have been slave drivers in the past (I am not racist- I am white) And people just can't let it go. That was almost two-hundred years ago. Like for instance: There is a NAACP but not a NAAWP, because if there was a NAAWP, it would be racist. There is a BET but not a WET, because- you guessed it. It would be racist. in my town, a person of anyother nationallity can call a white person honkey, cracker, [[insert your racist white person adjective here]] but oh emm gee, should a white person DARE call somebody else omething along those lines they get in HUGE trouble.But In my oppinion, racism is wrong, and I will admit, white people started a lot of it AND FOR THE LAST TIME I AM WHITE SO DON'T CALL ME RACIST! But it is spreading to other nationalities, and it has to stop all together. I try to not see colour. Colour does not matter to me one bit. i try not to see colour, sexuallity, size, any of it. But not everybody is like that. Yes I make fun of obese people wen I'm mad... Whatever. But do you get my point?The other thing that bothers me is unintentional racism. I.E. I am polish. Somebody continues to use polish people as an exampe for the things that are being done badly in his/her countrie, et he does not know it, and refuses the fact that he/she did wrong.

[linekill 1]

I'm Asian but I couldn't agree with you guys more. I'm sorry but I don't understand the agencies cited. I'm from the Philippines and the majority of the people are Christians. The remaining minority group would be the Muslims. For the most part, we do live in good harmony. However, there are just instances when the government (afraid of the Muslim Extremist Groups), wooes the minority and give them more than the majority. Racism, I guess, is everywhere.

[odomike 0]

Lets face some facts in here. There are still some parts of the US and UK where a black man (I am a black) is and will always be treated like *BLEEP* simply because he is black. You know, I simply dont get it. For instance, a friend of mine living in the UK (I am not gonna call names in here) once told me a story of a guy that got arrested by the police simply because he was walking past a place they call as white quarters. Can you imagine that?

 

I cant help but ask myself and any other person tht cares to listen...Are we not all created by God? why were some people created to seemingly be higher than others?

 

I used to think that racism is a thing of the past and that those who practiced it has been brought to judge but no....That idea has died in my head after I heard this story from my friend.

 

Too bad...the injustice of man.

[sylenzednuke 0]

I tend to agree with most of you here. We are just hitting back racism with more and more racism, pointless, hypocritical racism.But something is needed, something IS needed for their upliftment of "minorities" that was cause due to our ancestral prejudices. But it surely isn't the thing we have now. Stop treating black men like dogs and the problem is solved. Having agencies won't do any good. Quotas won't do any good either, especially in the field of education and jobs. People seem to fail to realize where the problem is. Have better early-education schemes for minorities, this would make them to the level of majorities and so they can all have a healthy competition for the living. You can't just leave the minorities to their early miseries and then in the end lend them some pseudo-help.Religious grading as minorities and majorities are the worse though. It just doesn't make sense. Why should Muslims be considered minorities in the end? Aren't they all just like us? It's just that they follow some different rules of life that we don't, but don't we all have our own? In India, apart from the upper-caste Hindus, everyone is considered a minority. Be it Muslims, Jews, Christians, Sikhs or even lower-caste Hindus.Maybe it's because of my hate towards religion (not to be mistaken with hate towards God or something, I am not Satanist. I am an Atheist but I have no problem with a guy having a force of hope for him, an upper being that guides him but religion? I am sorry, I can't tolerate religion and the nuisances it causes, in the end most religions tend to go against nature, the real God) that I feel religious grading is pointless, but don't you all feel so either?There was rage and anger in students when the OBC quotas in colleges and universities were being planned on increasing. There were riots, revolts, protests and what not and things are still hanging in there. What would be more helpful? A person who doesn't know much like the other people he's with but still getting same priveleges and sometimes more? Are we actually helping them? The government should put up better schools for the "minorities" so that they later become as illegible for something as a majority would.Quotas are making things worse, upliftment is far from what we are getting in return.

[kenobi 0]

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another race or races. The Merriam-Webster's Webster's Dictionary dictionary defines racism as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race, and that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief.[2] The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism thus: the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others.I think that the skin of color doesn't make me superior or inferior to other people with different color of skin. But what we think now is not what people thought 50 or 100 or 1000 years ago. In those times people who had the power felt themselves superior just like nowadays. And as we know from history white men colonized a large piece of our planet and often made slaves of the original inhabitants with different color of skin. The different technological level, religion and power made white man believe that they are superior to these people living often simple lives. And this remains still in our culture, although as our countries become more and more cosmopolitan we learn that religion or skin color doesn't say anything about who we are. It's a shame that there are still people who think different. I think it will take some more time till we get to a non racist society with no prejudice against people who are different in any way but I think that we made the fist step towards this goal, and that racism will slowly disappear but until then we must protect people who are targets of racism and help them become equal.

[whiskers_w 0]

I am in no way racist or prejudiced toward any type of group, but there are certain things that I wonder about such as: why is it okay to have NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) but it is considered "racist" if we had the NAAWP (National Association for the Advancement of White People)? Why is there the United Negro College Fund but it would be racist to create the United Caucasion College Fund? Why is it okay to have "Gay Pride" marches but not "Straight Pride" marches? Why is it that a top candidate can be turned down for a job and a "lesser" candidate hired to comply with racial quotas?

 

I mean no disrespect by these questions and I hold nothing against anyone for these situations. If I offend anyone, please know that it was not my intent. These are just questions that I have and I thought they could be the topic of a good discussion.

*********************

Sean, my man...

 

TRUTH OUT OF CONTEXT IS STILL A LIE

 

In order to come to an understanding about any issue, you must deal with it in its true context. Without proper context, any half truth can masquerade as a complete truth. This is dangerous, because it allows a misrepresentation to displace the real facts in a situation, and cause people to take actions based upon misrepresented information. Real truth can only take place where the full context of the events or issues being witnessed or discussed. Let me give you an example that has nothing to do with race:

 

Let's say you are invited by a friend to meet at Madison Square Garden to watch a basketball game. When you arrive the game is in progress. The action is so exciting and compelling that you are immediately fully engaged in the game, almost impervious to your surroundings. You watch a hard fought battle by two apparently evenly matched teams. In the end, a close and well played game unfolds in front of your eyes, with the "best team" winning in the end. If you left immediately following the game you would be leaving without learning the truth, totally misled by what you were witnessing. Suppose you found out the true context of the game. The part you missed, which was that the starting players for the losing team were detained by the police for almost the entire first three quarters, for something everyone now could agree was unjust. Suppose you found out that they started the game almost 100 points behind, after releiving some diehard fans who stood in for them in their period of detention and containment by the police. You would then realize that in its proper context, the game was not as close as it looked, and that the losing team only lost on paper... You would suddenly realize that the most qualified BY FAR lost because of being systematically held back!

 

Now, back to the NAACP!

 

The context of the NAACP is important because it allows us to view it in its proper light. First, because the organization was formed when the entire United States of America functioned as the FIRST NAACP, the "National Association for the Advancement of Caucasian People" you referred to so mockingly in your initial posting. At various times and places throughout our history and geography here in the U.S., it was illegal for blacks to be taught to read, vote, own property, read the Bible, inherit property, go into certain buildings via the main entrance, gather in greater numbers than 3 at a time, and a whole host of other things that you take for granted. It was within the context of these and other issues blacks faced as outsiders in the original NAACP, that the second NAACP was formed for colored people.

 

There were quotas then, but they were largely okay with most white people. The quota was zero for blacks. The tax was 100% for 361 years, from King Charles V's original edict in 1502 allowing trade in Africans in the New World, until the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863. During that time millions of less qualified whites surpassed blacks for paying jobs with no complaint from an overwhelming majority of whites. These were non-issues but for the persistence of the "losing" team in struggling to make it despite the deck being stacked against them... Despite police (government) detention for unjust causes.

 

Today, when you mention the NAACP, the United Negro College Fund, and various other "black" organizations you come across, without this context, you are perpetuating a bold-faced lie! Today, blacks still own less than 1% of this nation's wealth, so the original NAACP is still alive and well. It's just cloaked in lies, instead of sheets.

 

Whether you are aware of the context, or you are joining the bandwagon of bigots in thin disguises who choose to ignore it, the act is the same. It doesn't escape us, though... We know you are lying. We know you are full of it. And, if you are a New American, we know you have not yet qualified to speak on the issue, as you are speaking of things you know nothing about. No matter how you try to sugar coat it, you are still fudging.

 

I'm not mad at you. And, I could care less about making you feel guilty. Your lies are an indication that you already feel guilty without me saying anything. That you don't care if you lie to your friends and the New Americans has nothing to do with my view of the subject. Keep fudging. But remember: If you keep fudging with fudge, you might wind up getting fudged up.

 

Peace.

 

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another race or races. The Merriam-Webster's Webster's Dictionary dictionary defines racism as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race, and that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief.[2] The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism thus: the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others.

 

I think that the skin of color doesn't make me superior or inferior to other people with different color of skin. But what we think now is not what people thought 50 or 100 or 1000 years ago. In those times people who had the power felt themselves superior just like nowadays. And as we know from history white men colonized a large piece of our planet and often made slaves of the original inhabitants with different color of skin. The different technological level, religion and power made white man believe that they are superior to these people living often simple lives. And this remains still in our culture, although as our countries become more and more cosmopolitan we learn that religion or skin color doesn't say anything about who we are. It's a shame that there are still people who think different. I think it will take some more time till we get to a non racist society with no prejudice against people who are different in any way but I think that we made the fist step towards this goal, and that racism will slowly disappear but until then we must protect people who are targets of racism and help them become equal.

You're treating racism like a subject for a thesis, which at the student level, may have some validity. But in terms of the realities on the ground, racism is quite a different animal. Dark people the world over have been subjected to the most brutal form of racism, racial superiority, and racial hatred imaginable. You alluded to technological superiority as the reason whites had a tactical advantage over dark folks. In truth, it was whites' willingness to wage violence against human beings (a characteristic dark people never possessed until coming into contact with whites) that gave them an advantage. The technological advantage is largely a myth. But, as we see unfolding in Iraq and anywhere else unites dominate, it is violence that rules the day.

 

Racial hatred allows us to view the violence in Iraq and think only of our soldiers' well being. As violent invaders, we have killed untold thousands of innocent people who meant us no harm, yet there are many among us who have never shed a tear or said a prayer for any of them. Why? If not racism and racial hatred, then what?

 

As powerful as racial hatred is racism. In the real world context, racism actually causes more damage because its effects are systematic. Invisible quotas guard the racist society against its outcasts. Selective admission divides and conquers the outcasts from within their own ranks... Racism costs people opportunities for centuries, while racial hatred can take hundreds, thousands, possibly millions of lives in an instant. There is no doubt that these forces are destructive to the will of God, no matter how they are disguised. Despite that, they will live on until something catastrophic takes place.

 

Fight racism wherever you see it. Don't hate da playa (the racial bigot). Hate da game (racism)!

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Excellent comments and quite eloquently stated. Thanks for sharing your views.

[whiskers_w 0]

May be due to uplifted of minority or something ?
Something like Quotas for Women but no Quotas for men.

Again, spoken out of context, ANYTHING sounds reasonable. Any quotas that exist for women exist because for far too long there was another quota. You could define that being a quota for men, or a quota for women, depending upon your perspective. For men the quota was 100% and for women it was 0%. In order to correct the original, corrupt quota a "just" quota was established. This is the reason for quotas. The context. It's like a pot of tea, served with no water. In order to protect the flavor and other attributes of the tea, water, lemon, sweetener, and other ingredients IN SELECTED PROPORTIONS OR QUOTAS must be added.

Also, there is proof that the standards commonly used to determine who is "qualified" for a specific job or post are skewered towards white men. The proof is that whenever women and minorities are able to make moves on pure merit, they do far better. Look at Jay-Z or 50 Cent, Oprah, Tyra Banks, Reginald Lewis, Odie Donnell, and others. They do quite well without having someone from the good ol boy network evaluating them by standards that have nothing to do with achievement or performance.


Remember, when tea is served as tea alone (just the leaves... no water, etc.) it becomes unbearable. The same with the workplace. Quotas ensure balance where there has heretofore been none.

[bishoujo 0]

Why should the majority require the setting up of these organizations? The main purpose of setting up those organizations for the minorities is meant to protect their rights. Judging from what you've written, you're probably White and Straight, constituting the majority group in your country, so you wouldn't understand the insecurities and discrimination they face. Being part of a large majority race in my country, I take it for granted that there is no discrimination of any sort. But my friend from a minority group tells me that despite the government's efforts to promote racial harmony and equal treatment for all races, she still feels ostracized by things that we the majority group do not give much thought to, such as when a potential employer tells her that they need a Chinese employee because the job requires you to speak the language.Also, it seems that racism is still rather prevalent. I don't read much about racism problems, but I remembered that match in Barcelona last year, or was it 2 years ago, where the spectators booed the Black players. It may have been a game tactic, but very thoughtless all the same. I think it is important that the minority groups have organizations to represent and speak up for their rights.

Edited September 18, 2007 by bishoujo (see edit history)

[whiskers_w 0]

Well, where I live I get the feeling that the original people are getting discriminated in any way.Most foreign people (no offense) can call us anything they want, but if we treat them the same way, it is treated as racism. So is it normal that there is only a 1-way-racism? I really don't like the current situation... For example, moslims here are angry because they can't wear their headgear (dunno what it's called) when working, and now they write in the newspaper they they want no more Christmas, Easter or anything else related to the christian religion. Is it also normal that people that emigrated to another country come and dictate the law? Please comment me if I'm wrong... Again, no offense to any cultures or so, I respect them, but not the extremism here and elsewhere.

Unstoppable---

 

You might start by checking your history, and then yourself. I say this because you obviously consider yourself to be a white American. Problem is: You are not the "original people". Your ancestors killed them and took their land. I hate to remind you of this, but until you take that into account, you're missing something. How could you call yourself a just human being without considering that fact, when making your statement about "people that emigrated to another country come and dictate the law..." What exactly are you whites doing? I'm not mad, but i'm not going to let you lie and pretend you are being honest.

 

When it comes to this issue you appear to want to be the judge and jury. It is extremism on your part, whether you realize it or not, that allows you to feel that you are the rightful occupant of these lands (the Americas), and that the "minorities" are wrong or out of place when they demand that you share what you have commandeered for yourselves with others who happen to share the same geography and society with you. You want to define everyone else. Set rules and limits. Fake standards, then criticize or relegate people to certain status or lack or it based upon these standards.

 

You allude to Muslims being angry because they can't wear their head dress while at work, and not being in favor of Christmas, but you have nothing but disdain for the Ramadan. You don't celebrate their holidays, and you should not expect them to celebrate yours. The issue is respect for your fellow man. Can you respect Islam or Judaism? Can you respect people who are not white? Ask yourself that, then ask those other questions.