Racism - When Is Too Far?

[seez 0]

Racism. When is it going too far? When someone of another race looks down on you. The second someone of another race goes up to you and makes a racist comment or joke directed to you. When the Ku Klux Klan burns and kills blacks.That's when it goes too far. its awful

[salamangkero 0]

"Lighten up, it was just a joke..." or "So long as it's funny, it is okay." Anyone see the fallacy in that? When does racism get too far?

I stand by what I said. It was a joke! Gee, that is the point of entertainment! Nobody's bleeding, nobody's being stoned to death, nada. So long as it is all verbal, then I don't see the harm in it.

Of course, it's an entirely different thing when we begin burning blacks, conducting pogroms on jewish households, raiding Filipino huts, firing Mexican employees or shooting Chinese people because there is unfair loss of property, liquid assets or human lives. But a joke, oh, a joke! Really, a joke is only as damaging as the object of the joke. If you're too sensitive and cannot take it in stride, then, yeah, the damage goes a long way but if you can shrug it off and know perfectly well that your friends don't really mean it, then, what can I say? Live long and prosper!

I once saw a Yahoo! ad initially saying, "That Mexican guy looks hot," then an animation takes over and scratches out the word "Mexican" It was an anti-racism advert.

My opinion, however, is that that advert is kinda taking it too far. I suppose that the setting of the "hot Mexican guy" was in a public place. Now, let's say you're in the middle of a busy sidewalk, with people walking to and fro everywhere. How, on earth, are you gonna point out to your friend where the hot guy is?

For one, it is rude to actually point someone out. So you'll have to describe him. Now, suppose every one of them is in a suit, so describing the clothing is pretty much out of the question. Isn't it much easier to say "Mexican" than "tan, medium-built, square-faced guy" or something like that? Sometimes, really, I do think people do easily get ticked off by the most trivial of matters.

Get a life, learn to read between the lines. People do not necessarily say what they mean (or mean what they say, for that matter)

So much for jokes huh?

[truefusion 3]

So long as it is all verbal, then I don't see the harm in it.

If you're too sensitive and cannot take it in stride, then, yeah, the damage goes a long way...

I think you do see it.

 

I once saw a Yahoo! ad initially saying, "That Mexican guy looks hot," then an animation takes over and scratches out the word "Mexican" It was an anti-racism advert.

 

My opinion, however, is that that advert is kinda taking it too far.

I would agree. I don't see anything bad about claiming that a Mexican is hot. In fact, i think the Mexican would love it if others call them hot—just like any other person who gets pointed out for their "hotness." What were the adverts trying to do, be politically correct?

 

For one, it is rude to actually point someone out.

Not in this case. Would you find it rude if you were pointed out for your "hotness?"

 

So much for jokes huh?

So, there's no such thing as other kinds of jokes?

 

[hr=noshade]One more thing: Just 'cause there's laughter doesn't mean there's approval as well.[/hr]

[salamangkero 0]

I would agree. I don't see anything bad about claiming that a Mexican is hot. In fact, i think the Mexican would love it if others call them hotjust like any other person who gets pointed out for their "hotness." What were the adverts trying to do, be politically correct?

Oh please. the point is not whether a person is hot or not. For all we care, you could put another adjective there. "That Mexican sure is gross," for example.

Not in this case. Would you find it rude if you were pointed out for your "hotness?"

Like I said, if I were a Mexican (fine, Hispanic) guy in the middle of a busy street and someone pointed me out from a considerable distance, what on earth would I care if they thought I was hot or not; the first thing that would come to my mind is, "What the fvc< are they looking at me for?!?"

So, there's no such thing as other kinds of jokes?

Look here. If we all were so purists that we never wanted to offend anyone at all, there'd be no racist jokes, no green or sexist jokes, no dumb blonde jokes, no political jokes and, guess what, we'd be left with no more than a bunch of stupid limericks and too-wholesome word play. Yes, there are other kinds of jokes but I'm sure you'd be quite "intelligent" enough to find out what's wrong with them, in the same way that you find racist jokes to be "offensive".

One more thing: Just 'cause there's laughter doesn't mean there's approval as well.

Of course there won't be any approval from the "oppressed" race. However, did you ever pause to think that just because there is no approval, something should be stopped? I don't see the Chinese nodding or affirming my "A Chinese walks into a bar..." jokes but they don't stop me. I ask my (Chinese) friend if he finds it offensive and I should stop and he said, "No, no. Au contraire, it's fun."

Let's have another analogy, Suppose I like the color black instead of blue. I'm pretty sure a lot of my friends will not give me their approval 'coz they all have their own tastes. Do I have to stop liking the color black simply because people do not approve?

Oh yeah, lastly, regarding the quote about verbally racist stuff, no harm and over-sensitive people, I had mistakenly assumed that everyone on earth do not fret the small stuff. Apparently, the world was not as perfect as I imagined and, for that, I sarcastically apologize

[truefusion 3]

Oh please. the point is not whether a person is hot or not. For all we care, you could put another adjective there. "That Mexican sure is gross," for example.

It would all depend... Do they know that they're a Mexican? Are they really doing something gross? Etc...

 

Like I said, if I were a Mexican (fine, Hispanic) guy in the middle of a busy street and someone pointed me out from a considerable distance, [1]what on earth would I care if they thought I was hot or not; [2]the first thing that would come to my mind is, "What the fvc< are they looking at me for?!?"

If you say that for them looking at you, then you would be saying it to basically almost everyone in the busy street, for many are bound to look at you as they pass by. Also, if they are looking at you from a distance, you can state, "Oh, it could be something behind me or next to me, and it just looks like they're looking at me." The pointing is what would clear all doubt.

Also, [1] and [2] contradict each other. 'Cause in order to ask that question to yourself, you would have to care about what they're thinking about you—whether or not it was about your hotness.

 

Look here. [1]If we all were so purists that we never wanted to offend anyone at all, there'd be no racist jokes, no green or sexist jokes, no dumb blonde jokes, no political jokes and, guess what, we'd be left with no more than a bunch of stupid limericks and too-wholesome word play. [2]Yes, there are other kinds of jokes but I'm sure you'd be quite "intelligent" enough to find out what's wrong with them, in the same way that you find racist jokes to be "offensive".

[1]The way this starts off implies that the jokes were started to offend others.

[2]There are plenty of jokes out there that there is nothing wrong with them.

 

Of course there won't be any approval from the "oppressed" race. However, [1]did you ever pause to think that just because there is no approval, something should be stopped? [2]I don't see the Chinese nodding or affirming my "A Chinese walks into a bar..." jokes but they don't stop me. [3]I ask my (Chinese) friend if he finds it offensive and I should stop and he said, "No, no. Au contraire, it's fun."

[1]Isn't that the reason why i am debating this?

[2]Just 'cause it's allowed doesn't mean it is right.

[3]That's him. Also, merely pointing out what kind of person the person ("main character") in your joke is isn't insomuch the wrong part. For example, the joke could lie somewhere in the Chinese person making two random people look bad.

 

Let's have another analogy, Suppose I like the color black instead of blue. I'm pretty sure a lot of my friends will not give me their approval 'coz they all have their own tastes. Do I have to stop liking the color black simply because people do not approve?

Nice analogy. Makes me think hard. For example, their second favorite could be the color black, and your second favorite could be the color blue. But to keep things short and simple, i've never heard of someone killing another person just 'cause they had a different 'taste' in color (excluding skin color). So, no, you could continue. However, my argument doesn't feel strong enough; though, it feels like the only direction where i would encounter less trouble in.

[hitmanblood 0]

A lot has been said since yestrday on this topic. I would like to add few more things. It is good to joke about other people and it is good to accept jokes on yourself or on your part this has to be mutual. And if you are ready to joke with someone be ready to get the same back. It is so and I already wrote it here in this topic. And I consider that there is nothing wrong when someone jokes about someone else's stereotypes they are in most cases not truth. But it is nice to hear joke on that and I laugh also I laugh when someone points out some stereotypes of my own people. And it is funny, I don't consider that racism at all.However there is other point here which has to be selucated from the joking. It is when someone is trying to put or make you lower then he. That is when someone is actually saying that you are lower person then him and that you are worst person if you are member certain community. If I were Afro American I would never consider joke about Afro Americans and Nigers. Come On black people sometimes call themself niger and if they do that then some white guy calles them niger there is racist thing. I wanted to say that if There is joke about Afro American's and Nigers as I was just listening to one stand up comedian and there is talk how Klu Klax Klan burned some poor black guy's hose. There is different one thing is to joke other is to harm someone. And there is difference.

[salamangkero 0]

Oh please. the point is not whether a person is hot or not. For all we care, you could put another adjective there. "That Mexican sure is gross," for example.

It would all depend... Do they know that they're a Mexican? Are they really doing something gross? Etc...

Again, you miss the point. It's not about being hot or being gross or even being Mexican; it's about identifying the "target". It's not about whether they're picking their noses or flashing sexy smiles, it's about identifying a man who, to you and your friend, "looks" Mexican.

 

Like I said, if I were a Mexican (fine, Hispanic) guy in the middle of a busy street and someone pointed me out from a considerable distance, [1]what on earth would I care if they thought I was hot or not; [2]the first thing that would come to my mind is, "What the fvc< are they looking at me for?!?"

If you say that for them looking at you, then you would be saying it to basically almost everyone in the busy street, for many are bound to look at you as they pass by. Also, if they are looking at you from a distance, you can state, "Oh, it could be something behind me or next to me, and it just looks like they're looking at me." The pointing is what would clear all doubt.

Also, [1] and [2] contradict each other. 'Cause in order to ask that question to yourself, you would have to care about what they're thinking about you—whether or not it was about your hotness.

I don't say that to people looking at me. As a matter of fact, I'd never say that; I simply said it was the first thing that comes to my mind, meaning, I thought of it, okay? I'm not in the manner of accosting people in public to ask awkward questions or mention obscene profanities like that.

 

Also, I said I'd think of that if the people were pointing at me. And even so, a stare is very much different from a glance or a glimpse. I hope you are aware that looking at something can be taken differently depending on the duration or intensity. Pointing at you will, indeed, clear all doubt but it is also a mark of hostility, and rudeness, might I add.

 

Additionally, [1] and [2] do not contradict each other. [1] deals with whether I am hot or not, which you also mentioned in, "Would you find it rude if you were pointed out for your "hotness?"" It specifically deals with the adjective "hot" [2] on the other hand deals with "me", the "target" or the Mexican guy. Hotness has nothing to do with it. Attention a bit to keen does.

 

Look here. If we all were so purists that we never wanted to offend anyone at all, there'd be no racist jokes, no green or sexist jokes, no dumb blonde jokes, no political jokes and, guess what, we'd be left with no more than a bunch of stupid limericks and too-wholesome word play. Yes, there are other kinds of jokes but I'm sure you'd be quite "intelligent" enough to find out what's wrong with them, in the same way that you find racist jokes to be "offensive".

[1]The way this starts off implies that the jokes were started to offend others.

[2]There are plenty of jokes out there that there is nothing wrong with them.

I never said nor implied that jokes were meat to offend anyone. What I did imply, however, is that a lot of jokes, which were started to entertain, not offend, are usually offensive if reviewed by anyone who is hell-bent on stopping material that seem the least bit offensive to any race, religion, clan, person or groups of persons.

 

Some "racist" jokes, which a lot of people enjoy, are usually a fact of life in certain social groups, that is, until someone butts in and says, "That's wrong! Even if Blondie/Helga/Lee Yang Fei is laughing along, it's wrong! Even if it is just a joke, it is wrong!" while all around him, more serious stuff are being neglected such as black slavery, mail brides in Asia, denial of employment to Irish people and things more serious than a joke. Like I said, don't sweat the small stuff.

 

Of course there won't be any approval from the "oppressed" race. However, [1]did you ever pause to think that just because there is no approval, something should be stopped? [2]I don't see the Chinese nodding or affirming my "A Chinese walks into a bar..." jokes but they don't stop me. [3]I ask my (Chinese) friend if he finds it offensive and I should stop and he said, "No, no. Au contraire, it's fun."

[1]Isn't that the reason why i am debating this?

[2]Just 'cause it's allowed doesn't mean it is right.

[3](a)That's him. (b)Also, merely pointing out what kind of person the person ("main character") in your joke is isn't insomuch the wrong part. ŠFor example, the joke could lie somewhere in the Chinese person making two random people look bad.

I see you failed to grasp the rhetorical question. Allow me to rephrase it for you: Do you believe something with no approval should be stopped? Please do clear it up because it does seem like that is what you are saying.

 

Secondly, I know that just because something is allowed does not mean it is right. However, just because something is not right does not necessarily mean it is wrong either. What is "right" and what is "wrong" anyway? Isn't that what we are discussing here, to a degree? The way I see it, you imply that racism, in any form, is wrong. For me, racism, in jokes, is alright, which is to say, neither right nor wrong, and that racism that goes beyond verbal entertainment is "wrong". We obviously do not agree on the first half of my belief but, boy, am I glad you are with me on the second half

 

Lastly, lemme adopt your style and split your statements.

(a)Finally! You see what I mean. Yes! It is him! In as much as humor is relative to different people. So you cannot really generalize that racist jokes are wrong (or "bad") for everyone.

(b)Are you saying that saying, Irish jokes, black jokes or Indian jokes are not wrong in that it is about the Irish, black or Indian people? In effect, are you saying racist jokes are not wrong in that they are about certain races?

ŠIf the joke is meant to make specific people look bad, they it is no longer a racist joke. If I said, "Lee Yang Fei stinks because she's Chinese and Chinese people don't take baths in the morning," then that is no longer a joke. That is not even racist. That, my dear, is not anti-Chinese. That is, however, anti-Lee Yang Fei; it is a snide comment.

 

A lot has been said since yesterday on this topic. I would like to add few more things.

 

It is good to joke about other people and it is good to accept jokes on yourself or on your part this has to be mutual. And if you are ready to joke with someone be ready to get the same back. It is so and I already wrote it here in this topic. And I consider that there is nothing wrong when someone jokes about someone else's stereotypes they are in most cases not truth. But it is nice to hear joke on that and I laugh also I laugh when someone points out some stereotypes of my own people. And it is funny, I don't consider that racism at all.

 

However there is other point here which has to be selucated (?) from the joking. It is when someone is trying to put or make you lower then he. That is when someone is actually saying that you are lower person then him and that you are worst person if you are member certain community.

Well said. If the words start putting another person (or his image) down, professionally or physically, then it is no longer a joke but a serious matter. Racist jokes are good fun but there should probably be a line that defines which is good fun and which is plain and unreasonable racist assault (or battery).

 

I do believe, however, that that line is somewhere in between joke and putdown, not between non-racist and racist

 

However, my argument doesn't feel strong enough; though, it feels like the only direction where i would encounter less trouble in

I, too, believed I would escape conflict when I said racist jokes were fine. Apparently, we were both wrong
Edited April 24, 2007 by salamangkero (see edit history)

[truefusion 3]

[1]Again, you miss the point. It's not about being hot or being gross or even being Mexican; it's about identifying the "target". It's not about whether they're picking their noses or flashing sexy smiles, [2]it's about identifying a man who, to you and your friend, "looks" Mexican.

[1]No, i saw the point before, i just wanted to lean a bit to be able to point something else out. You could say, i think ahead a bit.

[2]Mhmm. I'll let my implicatoin in my other post that is in relation to this address anything further.

 

[1]Also, I said I'd think of that if the people were pointing at me. [2]And even so, a stare is very much different from a glance or a glimpse. [3]I hope you are aware that looking at something can be taken differently depending on the duration or intensity. Pointing at you will, indeed, clear all doubt [4]but it is also a mark of hostility, and rudeness, might I add.

[1]Then why did your "thought" (which people can think out loud) say "looking" rather than "pointing"?

[2]Yes, they could have very well have glanced at you just to see if they were aiming correctly and then quickly turn to each other and say something about you—which can be anything.

[3]I am.

[4]The most mere pointing can do to someone is annoy someone, and that's if the person even notices that they are being pointed at.

 

Some "racist" jokes, which a lot of people enjoy, are usually a fact of life in certain social groups, that is, until someone butts in and says, "That's wrong! Even [1]if Blondie/Helga/Lee Yang Fei is laughing along, it's wrong! Even if it is just a joke, it is wrong!" while all around him, more serious stuff are being neglected such as black slavery, mail brides in Asia, denial of employment to Irish people and things more serious than a joke. Like I said, don't sweat the small stuff.

[1]That's the thing though, that person's complaint isn't justified since the person (emphasis on singularity) that the joke is directed to is laughing and has publicly approved the joke. The problem, however, may raise when the person that the joke was directed to no longer finds certain jokes against them funny.

 

[1]I see you failed to grasp the rhetorical question. Allow me to rephrase it for you: Do you believe something with no approval should be stopped? [2]Please do clear it up because it does seem like that is what you are saying.

[1]No, i just wanted to lean a bit again to point something out.

[2]Only if certain conditions are met. For example, if a big company no longer approves certain employees (that could really use the job) to work there any longer and tosses them out—that is unjust and wrong. If these employees did nothing wrong, then management has no right to toss them out.

 

[1]Secondly, I know that just because something is allowed does not mean it is right. However, just because something is not right does not necessarily mean it is wrong either. What is "right" and what is "wrong" anyway? Isn't that what we are discussing here, to a degree? [2]The way I see it, racism, in any form, is wrong. For me, racism, in jokes, is alright, which is to say, neither right nor wrong, and that racism that goes beyond verbal entertainment is "wrong".

[1]Mhmm.

[2]I need some further clearing in this. If racism in any form is wrong, then how can racism in jokes be right or okay if racism in any form is wrong?

 

[1]Lastly, lemme adopt your style and split your statements.

(a)Finally! You see what I mean. Yes! It is him! In as much as humor is relative to different people. [2]So you cannot really generalize that racist jokes are wrong (or "bad") for everyone.

(b)Are you saying that saying, Irish jokes, black jokes or Indian jokes are not wrong in that it is about the Irish, black or Indian people? In effect, are you saying racist jokes are not wrong in that they are about certain races?

?If the joke is meant to make specific people look bad, then it is no longer a racist joke. If I said, [1]"Lee Yang Fei stinks because she's Chinese and Chinese people don't take baths in the morning," then that is no longer a joke. That is not even racist. That, my dear, is not anti-Chinese. That is, however, anti-Lee Yang Fei; it is a snide comment.

[1]It's not my style, i adopted it from someone else as well.

(a)However, there's a "paradox" i run into when it comes to offending people: You don't know that they can get offended until after the joke (or whatever it is) is said.

[2]Nope, we can't.

(b)If you mention what kind of race the person in your joke is—that isn't insomuch offensive, it is what comes afterwards that can make it offensive. For, like i said, the Chinese person (from your analogy) could very well be making two random people in the bar look bad; it could be a funny and moral story, if you will.

©[1]In my opinion, it is almost as much racial as it is anti-Lee Yang Fei, for the Chinese population in general had to be included in order to insult Lee Yang Fei. It is clearly both an insult and a fallacy.

[salamangkero 0]

[2]I need some further clearing in this. If racism in any form is wrong, then how can racism in jokes be right or okay if racism in any form is wrong?

Oh, sorry 'bout that. No, really, I'm sincerely sorry. I must've accidentally deleted the other words that were supposed to be in there. In any case, I have edited it. Really sorry guys.

 

Uh, I can't reply aside from that right now 'coz I'm rushing to get to work. I'll just post or edit this post later. Cya!

[hitmanblood 0]

I see that we are reaching dead end here with jokes and so. But I would like to say that eenthough you offend person it depends on the joke really. I wouldn't say that joke which is taking some stereotype and making fun of it is racistic even though it made person feel bad it is up to that person and not to the guy who told joke. But if someone is mocking with someone and making him look bad and lower then himself then this and such joke is and should be considered racistic eventhough it may or may not made person feel sorry. As such it highly depends on the person to whom are you telling joke. In my bunch we are mixed of like five nationalities and we all came from different countries and we are constantly joking and mocking around on each other sense and no one is becoming mad about it as everyone are aware that it is joke and there is no harm meant. Eventhough we were raised and lived in different social structures and accustomed to different way of living. So it really depends to whom are you speaking and referring.

[Smack 0]

Hey if some girls were pointing at me and had the lip movements hot in it - I would definately not be mad. I would start walking to them and my girlfriend would knock me out before I my first step landed! Anyways, the point of that advert was to just stop using those kinds of words, it isn't needed and adds nothing to the conversation. What makes the difference if the guy is white or black, all that matters to the girls is he is hot. And it's all that should matter - besides you know - who the person actually is.

 

Racism jokes are sometimes good because it takes steam away from the real hatred that is experienced in real life. Though many a time they are way offbase. The best thing to do would just be to leave these kinds of jokes out of conversations and take them out of theatres - anyone can come up with these kinds of jokes anyways, they're easy!

Edited April 26, 2007 by Smack (see edit history)

[kwantum 0]

i dont kno bout whites, but with blacks, or atleast where im from, therez always that sense of his black, his white, and u notice it when around whites, but i guess its human nature to notice whatz different and standz-out

[hitmanblood 0]

i dont kno bout whites, but with blacks, or atleast where im from, therez always that sense of his black, his white, and u notice it when around whites, but i guess its human nature to notice whatz different and standz-out

Well I think that it is not in human nature because where I am from there is no difference between those who are black and those who are white. But I know that in USA you are putting a lot in these differences. But I think that this is all because of your cultural background.

Let's look north and the south in the states north was always for the freedom of slaves and so on you in states had civil war because of this issue but the thing is that slavery and rascism is bad we are all equal and if you or anyone else see this then you have serious problem. Also I would say that there is large influence of enviroment and other factors in childe development which influences people.

[demonatashadow 0]

Going to far would be hurting someones feelings. I'm not African-American but I have been the subject of many jokes (and the people that made the jokes have suffered dearly, *cracks knuckles*) and I have to say its not fun. I know that maybe the people that you are pointing the jokes at (in a friendly kind of way) act like they don't really mind but maybe that inside they really do mind and would prefer that you stop. Frankly I don't even find anything funny about cruel jokes, to laugh at cruel jokes you must be cruel.

[CinnamorollTK 0]

Almost kind of racism is too far. The only case where it wont matter is if many people of multiple races got together specifically to make race jokes. This would mean all of them would agree not to get angry about the jokes.