What Is.. Gravitational Collapse? too much gravity?

[alexviii 0]

from what I undersood reading an article of science, gravitational collapse is like a gravity so higth that even light can't escape. But it's hard for mr to understand. Beacause I imagine gravity as froce created from a mass that attire other mass. So the Earth can attire me because of her mass. the moon can attire less, because her mass is lower.So to have a gravity force such in a gravitational collapse, we should have a very very very big mass.The problem is, when we talk about black-holes as gravitational collapses. In a black hole we don't have such very big mass. It's steel unknown, what is the black-Holes mass, and probably, they have no mass. Some one says that they are a no-mass zone. SO how can we (or nature) create a gravitational collapses?

Edited August 8, 2006 by BuffaloHELP (see edit history)

[Madkat-Z 0]

Actually there is some proof I've read in some science journals, that Black Holes could just huge White Dwarfs. White Dwarfs have a huge mass for how small they are, because the pressure has compacted them so much. So in a sence, a Super White Dwarf could have such a gravitational pull that it could cause a Gravitational Collapse and create something that would appear to be a black hole.

Edited August 8, 2006 by Madkat-Z (see edit history)

[Plenoptic 0]

Actually there is some proof I've read in some science journals, that Black Holes could just huge White Dwarfs. White Dwarfs have a huge mass for how small they are, because the pressure has compacted them so much. So in a sence, a Super White Dwarf could have such a gravitational pull that it could cause a Gravitational Collapse and create something that would appear to be a black hole.

Ya just because it isn't that big doesn't mean it doesn't have mass although it would appear that way. Although I don't know that much on the subject Black Holes really are huge as you know because time seems to travel so slowly. If it didn't have mass what's sucked in wouldn't come out in a white hole if there are indeed white holes. It may be so pressurized you can't even see it but I don't know about that.

[Cerebral Stasis 0]

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, black holes have never been proven to exist - they are still just a theory. Perhaps that another theory, such as the concept of dark matter, would better explain what we had for decades considered to be the workings of black holes.

[serverph 0]

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, black holes have never been proven to exist - they are still just a theory. Perhaps that another theory, such as the concept of dark matter, would better explain what we had for decades considered to be the workings of black holes.

 

as we imagine black holes to be (trapping everything in it, including light), it is still mostly a theory. BUT, it is possible (at least again, in theory) to "recreate" black holes -- here on earth. it technically is an electronic black hole which can trap electrons in it forever (as opposed to gravity black holes). yet we can still be all safe in knowing that it will not swallow up our planet and all of us in it since other particles and light would still pass through it. or are we?

 

things you need for a home-made black hole: a Van de Graaf generator, a metallic sphere and a supply of electrons. wanna try?

 

tomorrow's headlines: "A Black Hole Swallowed My Planet!"... yet there will be no one left to read it since it would take an hour at best before earth is gone and replaced with a hole in space and time . heheheü freaky.

[lemonwonder 0]

Well, to my understanding, they have detected light and images that show black holes, they are unsure on the nature of them but they have been able to conclude through radio waves that they do inhale things, any radio wave sent to a black hole has never returned.I got this info from wikpedia.As far as I know, because of the weird arangement of our solar system, a black hole has never come close, although with all the forces around one would think that one would have arrived by now. Erm.. Jupiter stops asteroids and things like that from coming onto earth, and it could be planets or whateva that stops the black holes from coming.I dont know where but I heard that all earths gold came from a black hole, gold and alchahole etc floats around it space, it is said that a black hole diverted it to earth. I am not sure on any of the facts above but that is just what i have heard. Hope this helps.

[Madkat-Z 0]

They have found black holes, but no white holes. The problem with white holes is the fact that they would either A: have to only last for a extremely short period of time and they would implode on themselves and create a black hole or B: have to bend the laws of physics.The only reason black holes do not bend the laws of physics yet, is if the theory is correct that they are just huge white dwarfs, they will eventually die off and turn into a nebula. All the matter was absorbed will be released from the gravitation pull slowly as the star dies off. So in sense if you want to call anything a white hole it would be a dead black hole.

Edited August 10, 2006 by Madkat-Z (see edit history)

[lemonwonder 0]

Well really, if they break the laws of physics/bend as you say, the laws of physics arent really correct. Well thats what i understand, but they would be mostly correct because the laws of physics include things like: if a big heavy bal is soaring thru air at 50km an hour, a small ball going 50km and hour wood not be able to change its direction

[Madkat-Z 0]

Well really, if they break the laws of physics/bend as you say, the laws of physics arent really correct. Well thats what i understand, but they would be mostly correct because the laws of physics include things like: if a big heavy bal is soaring thru air at 50km an hour, a small ball going 50km and hour wood not be able to change its direction

Hopefully I'm understanding what you are saying. That's the reason why most scientist say that white holes do not exist because in order for them to exist they would have to bend/break the laws of physics, which can't be broken. However, there are a few scientists out there who think that under the right circumstances the laws of physics can appear to have been bent, but haven't. I have heard of some rather interesting theories about one law counter acting another and canceling it out.

[gaurdro 0]

Blackholes are mostly theory because as we construct them now they violate a few of the "laws" of physics. one such being non-overlapping massive domains. which is just saying that two massive objects can't overlap in space. you can't be in the exact same location as someone else. gravity is a force generally thought of as being caused by a massive object. in the creation of a black hole, typically from a nuetron star or a white dwarf, which are already extremely massive and dense. the gravitational pull is so great that it begins to pull the outside in and the postulate of masses can't overlap is broken. the object becomes so dense that it creates an "event horizon". this is the proverbial point of no return. once ANYTHING crosses the event horizon it cannot return. the reason light can't escape is due to the fact that a superdense object tends to warp space. which makes light bend around it. in the case of a black hole the bending of space is such that the light always is placed on a collision course with the black hole itself. the word "laws" is in quotes because we don't know the true laws of the universe yet. we can only guess which would more likely place them under the scope of theorys but most people get really uncomfortable when one says "the theory of gravity states".

[Madkat-Z 0]

Blackholes are mostly theory because as we construct them now they violate a few of the "laws" of physics. one such being non-overlapping massive domains. which is just saying that two massive objects can't overlap in space. you can't be in the exact same location as someone else. gravity is a force generally thought of as being caused by a massive object. in the creation of a black hole, typically from a nuetron star or a white dwarf, which are already extremely massive and dense. the gravitational pull is so great that it begins to pull the outside in and the postulate of masses can't overlap is broken. the object becomes so dense that it creates an "event horizon". this is the proverbial point of no return. once ANYTHING crosses the event horizon it cannot return. the reason light can't escape is due to the fact that a superdense object tends to warp space. which makes light bend around it. in the case of a black hole the bending of space is such that the light always is placed on a collision course with the black hole itself.
the word "laws" is in quotes because we don't know the true laws of the universe yet. we can only guess which would more likely place them under the scope of theorys but most people get really uncomfortable when one says "the theory of gravity states".

I agree with you that objects can't overlap in the same space. However, I don't think black holes do absorb things into there same space. Either A: the object would get vaporized by the white dwarf once the it is close enough to the star or B: Gravity would squish the object down so much that it is basically invisible and would start orbiting the white dwarf, like any planet would a star. However once the black hole dies, which is when the White Dwarf dies, all that matter has to be released, but when it is released it is so small it may appear to have absorbed it and haven't returned it at all. This is one of these cases where one law counter acts another law making another law appear to have been broken.

Hopefully I haven't misread your post. I know when people talk about physics and stuff of that sorts its gets rather confusing to know what people are talking about, since most of this is all theory and stuff.

[gaurdro 0]

I agree with you that objects can't overlap in the same space. However, I don't think black holes do absorb things into there same space. Either A: the object would get vaporized by the white dwarf once the it is close enough to the star or B: Gravity would squish the object down so much that it is basically invisible and would start orbiting the white dwarf, like any planet would a star.

I'm not sure where you've based this from. but um black holes can be created from white dwarfs but they are not one in the same. white dwarfs still have a small enough gravitaitonal field that light esapes. black holes, however, don't let anything escape. and while black holes produce "Hawking radiation", they never die as a star would.

by the way approximately 40 tons of matter collide with our sun every day so it would follow that things (especially iron which doesn't fuse any further) could hit and add to the mass of white dwarfs or any celestial being.

[Galahad 0]

To my knowledge, black holes are dead stars... So that theory that black hole can die... I don't think dead things can die further But I didn't do much research on the subject, but I will do so :PThey have extremely powerfull gravitaional pull, and thus, they appear to swallow everything in their way... As a matter of fact, they just keep fusing things to it, enlarging theyr mass even further... What would happen if you would drop a steel ball down to Jupiter? It would sqwash it as much as it can, and add, it would probably evaporate, before reaching center of Jupiter...Photons are particles, that caryy light, right? So, if a black hole has great gravitational pull, it is possible it can pull even photons to itself, thus apearing it's "eating" then... I think I've seen on Discovery channel, a simulation, how black holes are being found, and they did find several black holes in Milky Way only...I will do more research, and return to join this discussion

[Madkat-Z 0]

I'm not sure where you've based this from. but um black holes can be created from white dwarfs but they are not one in the same. white dwarfs still have a small enough gravitaitonal field that light esapes. black holes, however, don't let anything escape. and while black holes produce "Hawking radiation", they never die as a star would.
by the way approximately 40 tons of matter collide with our sun every day so it would follow that things (especially iron which doesn't fuse any further) could hit and add to the mass of white dwarfs or any celestial being.

This is based off of the theory that white dwarfs are extremely heavy for there size and since there are starts know as Super Giants that maybe there maybe Super White dwarfs, which could have enough mass and gravitational pull that light could not escape (or anything else for that matter). Also black holes have to die at some time, because there is no proof of there being white holes and unless the law that matter can not be created or destroyed is wrong.

[cangor 0]

I'm seeing what seems to be a lot of mistaken information here... Here's the scientific truth about black holes from an avid astronomer:1) Black Holes Do Exist - as stated, scientists are not sure of their nature, but we know they are very, very, very dense. If you collapsed the entire Earth into a sphere 1 in. (2.5 cm.) in diameter it would be as dense as a black hole.2) No light can escape from black holes. Also, a black hole is usually created when a super gigantic star collapses in a hypernova (like a really big supernova) or whatever's more powerful than a hypernova... some type of last-breath explosion3) White dwarf stars are not that dense, and neither are brown dwarfs or whatever the heck type of dwarf you want to talk about.4) What you might have been thinking of, MadKat-Z, is the Neutron star - a really, really, really dense star which wasn't quite large enough to become a black hole when the original star exploded, or their kin, the Quark Star...I've probably not made much sense but hopefully this sheds some light on the situation...