Mission Accomplished! Now Leave! all fake reasons for being there are no longer valid

[BooZker 0]

Those were civil rights movements by the underdog. Is America the underdog in this conflict? I think not. Right now Iraq isn't a threat. It's the insurgents that we're trying to help remove. Saddam tortured his people simply for being Shiah. So, you wouldn't stick up for those killed for simply being part of a different sect of a religion? You wouldn't stick up for those black men and women hurt by apartheid in South Africa? Last time I checked US soliders weren't pulling Haditha's left and right. It's the terrorists, insugents, and former military of saddam brought by our presence in Iraq that's killing the innocent.

Why dont you read some of my posts before. I answered all of your questions. Read about what i said about africa and china. To me i DO NOT think we should go into a country and change there goverment. Would you like it if China came over and tried to change our goverment, NO you would not like it. Im sure there are people who like america over there, but i dont like spending tax money on a war that will never end. A war that started from a lie. A war that people compare to Vietnam. A war based on money, power, and greed.

 

I want to say to every American that does not already know this. America has committed a horrible war crime. If you do not believe me look it up. They invaded a country without approval of the United Nations and for no reason except weapons of mass destruction in which America never found.

Please take this into consideration. We were NEVER over there for the people of Iraq. We were over there, from what our leader said, for weapons of mass destruction.

[bazranz 0]

I have sympathy with both sides of the argument.

Being a Brit, I remember our Prime Minister Blair telling us

Iraq had weaons of mass destruction

, and we were

only 15 minutes from attack

.
Subsequents events and enquiries have proved both those statements wrong, but the US administration and UK government took it upon themselves to remove Saddam from power, even though they were acting illegally, and had no UN mandate, and kept moving the goalposts for the reason for invading.

The US have now proved, in their estimation, they are still the world number 1, and we can have our government telling us we are still a world power.

However, now we have been and torn up Iraq's administration, and allowed terrorists to run free, allowed sectarian murder to run free, allowed hostages to be kidnapped and executed, allowed Iraqi civilians to be murdered daily, we have to stay and try to help the Iraqi administration clear up the mess.

Until the Iraqi government and its' forces have gained full control, we have to stay.

If we leave, the country will descend into civil war, it will become a hotbed and training ground for terrorists, and the whole Middle East, if not the world will suffer.
Edited June 17, 2006 by bazranz (see edit history)

[Absolute 0]

Why dont you read some of my posts before. I answered all of your questions. Read about what i said about africa and china. To me i DO NOT think we should go into a country and change there goverment. Would you like it if China came over and tried to change our goverment, NO you would not like it. Im sure there are people who like america over there, but i dont like spending tax money on a war that will never end. A war that started from a lie. A war that people compare to Vietnam. A war based on money, power, and greed.

 

I want to say to every American that does not already know this. America has committed a horrible war crime. If you do not believe me look it up. They invaded a country without approval of the United Nations and for no reason except weapons of mass destruction in which America never found.

Please take this into consideration. We were NEVER over there for the people of Iraq. We were over there, from what our leader said, for weapons of mass destruction.

 

True. It was mentioned that WMD was the reason and that was wrong faulty intelligence. But when you hear of a group of Islamic Extremist going into a school in the middle of the night and beating the night watchmen and burning the school down only because they allow girls to attend i guess thats not reason to help people. Oh and not to mention the fact that the night watchman was told that anyone returning to the school would have their nose and ears cut off. The next day the children were still at school. They did not care about losing any body parts. They cared about actually getting an education. Something our children take for granted daily. I thank my lucky stars none of you cowards are in charge of any country. You simply turn an eye to beheadings, torture, and rape all over your hatred towards a political party, country, or man. That is why you will never matter. You will never be in charge of any political position in any house of congress. The majority of the people in the world do not agree with you or your views. 49 countries....let me say it again.....49 countries are helping with IRAQ. Its not just the U.S.A. Here is the list of countries from the last time i was there:

 

Afghanistan

Albania

Angola

Australia

Azerbaijan

Bulgaria

Colombia

Costa Rica

Czech Republic

Denmark

Dominican Republic

El Salvador

Eritrea

Estonia

Ethiopia

Georgia

Honduras

Hungary

Iceland

Italy

Japan

Kuwait

Latvia

Lithuania

Macedonia

Marshall Islands

Micronesia

Mongolia

Netherlands

Nicaragua

Palau

Panama

Philippines

Poland

Portugal

Romania

Rwanda

Singapore

Slovakia

Solomon Islands

South Korea

Spain

Tonga

Turkey

Uganda

Ukraine

United Kingdom

United States

Uzbekistan

 

I bet one of the countries you live in may even appear on the list. If the majority of the people in your country agreed with your views then all you would have to do is elect a new member to represent your country. If you are allowed to vote that is. However I dont see that happeining since only one member has been taken off that list from the last time i was there. That country is Costa Rica. Keep spinning the facts however you want to. A good chunk of the world is in Iraq right now. Keep applying to your dissident papers that brainwash you daily. IF the United States was not allowing my children to attend school based on their sex. If the USA was beheading people based on religion or tribe, If they were raping my wife, torturing my mother and father....Yes i would pray that some country would come and invade to free us. We need to head to Africa next and start taking care of the gangs there, AIDS, Give them food, water, shelter. We should have gone there a long time ago if you ask me.

 

Oh and about China. Dont worry. The time will come when China or India spread throughout SE Asia, The middle East, Europe, and then North and South America. Their populations will soon need the land and they will spread. We may not see it in our lifetimes but it will happen. America as well as alot of other countires may not be around. Who knows.

Edited June 25, 2006 by Absolute (see edit history)

[BooZker 0]

I bet one of the countries you live in may even appear on the list. If the majority of the people in your country agreed with your views then all you would have to do is elect a new member to represent your country. If you are allowed to vote that is. However I dont see that happeining since only one member has been taken off that list from the last time i was there. That country is Costa Rica. Keep spinning the facts however you want to. A good chunk of the world is in Iraq right now. Keep applying to your dissident papers that brainwash you daily. IF the United States was not allowing my children to attend school based on their sex. If the USA was beheading people based on religion or tribe, If they were raping my wife, torturing my mother and father....Yes i would pray that some country would come and invade to free us. We need to head to Africa next and start taking care of the gangs there, AIDS, Give them food, water, shelter. We should have gone there a long time ago if you ask me.

Haha actually in america what is it like 30% don't approve of George Bush and like 15% for vice president *BLEEP*. So majority is over on my side not to mention that in EVERY poll i have seen, people DONT want the iraq or ever wanted it. Your right those countries are helping, but ANOTHER war crime america commited was we went into Iraq without permission from the United Nations. No majority wanted us to go there, but we flipped them the finger and said screw you United Nations if we want to murder the people in Iraq then we can do it. The whole point of the united nations was so that this would never happen. And have any of those countries spent over 440 BILLION dollars. NOPE! So yes they are helping, but now all the children of America will have to pay for this. Do you not know any of this? Because all your arguments are very easy to come back and say, no your wrong.

1 The Countries helping
2. Majority don't think like me
3. We need to go to Africa next... We wont because we have NO MONEY left we borrow it all from China

I don't want to type anymore because ya, ya, ya Iraq is bad, but there are so many other countries we could have helped, but we just happened to pick one with oil and one that tried to kill the presidents dad years before. They had nothing to do with 9/11, they had no WMDs, they did no wrong. Those beliefs are theres. If you and your people want to change the whole world to be like America go ahead and do so. Just warn you however, every large society in history has fallen. America will fall if it keeps going as it's going now. We are litteraly trying to change the world to be like AMerica. America isn't the best. In schools we are behind third world countries, in money we are borrowing it from China, in peoples wealth they are getting pourer everyday while Sony makes more money then they did yesterday... just in interest.

You tell me how this is a perfect place. America is home of the free? Your right free to follow all the rules and make as much money as possible and if not they arnt there to help.

[Brian Gillingham 0]

True. It was mentioned that WMD was the reason and that was wrong faulty intelligence. But when you hear of a group of Islamic Extremist going into a school in the middle of the night and beating the night watchmen and burning the school down only because they allow girls to attend i guess thats not reason to help people. Oh and not to mention the fact that the night watchman was told that anyone returning to the school would have their nose and ears cut off. The next day the children were still at school. They did not care about losing any body parts. They cared about actually getting an education. Something our children take for granted daily. I thank my lucky stars none of you cowards are in charge of any country. You simply turn an eye to beheadings, torture, and rape all over your hatred towards a political party, country, or man. That is why you will never matter. You will never be in charge of any political position in any house of congress. The majority of the people in the world do not agree with you or your views. 49 countries....let me say it again.....49 countries are helping with IRAQ. Its not just the U.S.A. Here is the list of countries from the last time i was there:

 

Afghanistan

Albania

Angola

Australia

Azerbaijan

...

(section whacked by Brian)

...

United Kingdom

United States

Uzbekistan

So, that is a really impressive list there. Most of their commitments are to keep innocent people alive - like emergency care and food.

 

As to the countries included in your generous list, there are some that have already "CUT AND RUN" as the randy right likes to say.

http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/

- Countries which had troops in or supported operations in Iraq at one point but have pulled out since: Nicaragua (Feb. 2004); Spain (late-Apr. 2004); Dominican Republic (early-May 2004); Honduras (late-May 2004); Philippines (~Jul. 19, 2004); Thailand (late-Aug. 2004); New Zealand (late Sep. 2004); Tonga (mid-Dec. 2004) Hungary (end Dec. 2004); Portugal (mid-Feb. 2005); Moldova (Feb. 2005);

 

Countries planning to withdraw from Iraq: Poland (starting Jan.05 and completed by end.05(?)); Bulgaria (end of 2005, depending on circumstances); Ukraine (entire contingent, in stages until ~ Oct. 2005)

 

Countries which have reduced or are planning to reduce their troop commitment: Ukraine (-200 during Fall04 rotation); Moldova (reduced contingent to 12 around mid-2004); Norway (reduced from ~150 to 10 late-Jun.04, early Jul.04); Bulgaria (-50, Dec.04); Poland (-700, Feb.05); Italy (-300 expeted in Sept. 05(decrease appearently began in mid-Aug. 05)); Netherlands (reduced from ~1,345 to 4; ~Mar. 2005)

As you can see some of this has already happened. You can probably find better info out there on the remaining coalition countries, but it certainly isn't 49!!

 

I wonder sometimes what Iraq would be like if we never helped placed the cruel sanctions on their country - over 12 years and some estimate over 1,000,000 children dead. Just wonderful - great work Bush.

 

Bush has cried "Wolf!" too many times. Tell your senators that you are sick and tired of "terror alerts" in Miami when Bush's ratings go too low. Tell your senators that you don't appreciate being manipulated with a terror chart....

 

When is the last time that you saw this?

If you answered - "just before the 2004 elections", you should win a wish - a new administration would be what I would wish for.

 

A pacificist would deal with terror much more effectively than Bush. Don't be a macho idiot. Dealing with people who already believe that we are a zionist gluttonous country will only be further convinced by Bush's approach - he is completely playing the American people and the terrorists are working for the FBI or CIA. Read about where the US planned terror attacks on our OWN citizens in the past - Operation Northwoods.

 

The Freedom of Information Act has given us so much to be happy about. One of our sole remaining good freedoms. I wonder when they are going to try to take that freedom away.

[Brian Gillingham 0]

49 countries....let me say it again.....49 countries are helping with IRAQ. Its not just the U.S.A. Here is the list of countries from the last time i was there:
Afghanistan
Albania
...
...
...
United Kingdom
United States
Uzbekistan

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... 49, right? The last time that you were there must have been a few weeks after the start of the conflict.

The current figure is more like 28. So, do you still feel like the WHOLE WORLD is on your side? We will stand alone sometime - all empires before have crumbled. Read some history... we are just the next great thing, eh? Do you also believe that all of these countries really want to be there?

Cut and run! Cut and run! I just love to say that! We should all just cut and run! Somebody needs to write a catchy song to go with it...

[HoRuS 0]

That's indeed a long list of countries, but I'm sure that those countries only represent the governments and at most 50% of their populations. I'm ashamed for my government (The Netherlands) that they have supported the war in Iraq and still support the US in Afganistan. More then 50% of the Dutch people were against that support but still they did what they wanted, is that the meaning of democracy in this time?

[Tetraca 0]

Haha actually in america what is it like 30% don't approve of George Bush and like 15% for vice president *BLEEP*

Actually, it's the revers. 36% approve of George Bush, with only a slight raise when Al Zarqawi was killed, but it'll eventually go down again.

[fffanatics 0]

First of all, when it comes to polls and percentages of appproval, how many of you actaully voted in these? i know i did nor anyone i know. These are not correct numbers and those who study statistics should know that its all a numbers game and that these can be altered very easily to go in the favor of whoever is reporting it.Secondly, like many other have said before me in this forum who arent opposed of the war, look at it from the Iraqi people's point of view, it sucked worse before. Also, i know people all around the world have different religions but isnt one of the many similar concepts, love everyone and stand up for people you dont even know when they are in trouble? Live a good life and treat people right. In going into Iraqi, we are helping those who need it without regret. Help those who arent able to help themselves. Stop being selfish and start living life the way it is meant to be lived.

[BooZker 0]

First of all, when it comes to polls and percentages of appproval, how many of you actaully voted in these? i know i did nor anyone i know. These are not correct numbers and those who study statistics should know that its all a numbers game and that these can be altered very easily to go in the favor of whoever is reporting it.

OK so lets say its REALLY far off by let's say a whole 20% That still makes it about 50 % That is still less then any other president ever. Are you saying, "Oh its ok the polls arnt right. So what if he has done more bad then good then any other preseident in history because he is trying his hardest and the polls are ALL wrong"

Secondly, like many other have said before me in this forum who arent opposed of the war, look at it from the Iraqi people's point of view, it sucked worse before. Also, i know people all around the world have different religions but isnt one of the many similar concepts, love everyone and stand up for people you dont even know when they are in trouble? Live a good life and treat people right. In going into Iraqi, we are helping those who need it without regret. Help those who arent able to help themselves. Stop being selfish and start living life the way it is meant to be lived.

I think your being selfish. Your not looking at it from OUR soldiers point of view i guess. They have to risk their life everyday because they are just trying to help? I can see where this is good, but i don't see it in this war. Sure it "sucked" worse before, but look at it from a larger point of view. Look at the other countries that have litteraly nothing, but little shacks and huts. Look at the countries that there children are kidnapped and forced to fight while the women are raped and left to die. Many awful things have happened in Iraq, but there is worse. I want to know how people can think this was the worst place out of all the countries in the world.

[Kioku 0]

Even Hilary agreed that pulling out right now would be retarded. That's right. One of your fellow liberals. Now stop whining.

[adriantc 0]

I've read somewhere in last weeks newspaper that the USA are considering to lower the american presence in Iraq with more then 70%. If you ask me that is at least far-fetched since withdrawing from Iraq before peace is restored would make USA look weak to the rest of the world. It would be Vietnam all over again...

[Brian Gillingham 0]

Even Hilary agreed that pulling out right now would be retarded. That's right. One of your fellow liberals. Now stop whining.

 

I don't think she said anything about anybody being retarded. She is half-republican anyway. I wouldn't vote for her - and I am 100% liberal. Who is whining? I am outraged - and it is called frustration, not whining.

 

I am outraged by the useless killing. Get out of Iraq! Stop the war on error!

 

As for the side-effects of us leaving... I believe that adriantc is missing the big picture. I think that it is much worse for us to look like Nazis than for us to look weak. Who really cares if we look a little bit weak. Anybody else see it this way? We are taking plays directly out of Goebel's playbook from the 1938 run up to WWII. "This is a war that was forced upon us", "This is brought on by the actions of the jews in Poland". Basically, if a leader calls a potential enemy enough names and makes up enough *BLEEP*, then the people will follow - especially if they believe that their life was threatened by this enemy.... (that is what the terror alert level chart was for).

 

Pros for withdrawing

We can't afford this ongoing war. Remember what happened to Russia - fighting Afghanistan? The war nearly bankrupted the entire country.

Peace - sooner than later. The extremist islamists would have a very hard time recruiting new fighters against a benevolent America. That is a lesson that you never would hear from the administration, but it is true.... they'd literally put down their weapons against us if we stopped our conquest and our gluttonous ways.

Terrorist that continue to attack us would have less support in the future if the attacked us (since we would be leaving them alone - which is really all that they want)

We would be viewed as wiser, not weaker - respected more not less around the world

UN would be able to get some real work done - like the Kyoto CO2 protocol, the stuff in Africa and middle-east)

Arabs of the future would view the new America as a benevolent one (if we could actually follow through)

Cons for withdrawing

USA looks a bit weaker than it is (another way of saying that we don't look like an international bully anymore)

USA would have very little control over the world's oil (I actually consider this a Pro, but I list it here because the administration would certainly view this as a Con)

I think that we are a very bad country. We are a pathetic country that is strong. If we were a cartoon character maybe we'd be Strong-Stupid (is that one of the UhGi Oh's?). Based on another recent incident in the news, our leaders want to control the newspapers - kind of like the Soviet Union, eh? Take this freedom away and I think that we'd have a revolution - not only from the locals here in USA, but the whole world would begin to treat us like the country that we ARE.

 

Bad intelligence. That is what I am going to call Bush for the rest of my life -- George "Bad Intelligence" Bush.

[Kioku 0]

I don't think she said anything about anybody being retarded.

"What is paraphrasing?" I'll take other common sense somebody will overlook for 500, Alex.

You're just hopping on the liberal bandwagon. If we were there for oil, wouldn't gas prices be a bit lower? Controll newspapers? Nobody needs to know how we're protected. If you want information falling into the wrong hands, feel free.

All in all, without liberal douchebags whining, things would've gone smoother. Without having to be politically correct every five seconds, we smashed down Japan and the Axis powers. Back then, we could have anti-japanese propoganda, drop Fat man and Little boy, and worry about the rest later. I could honestly care if a liberal douche bag newspaper like the New York Times gets in trouble for reporting stuff they shouldn't be that risks our nationa's security. Revolution? Hardly. People will just whine about it as they have been doing. Go watch Al Gore's movie about Global Warming if you like exaggeration so much.

We can't just pull out. Their country would go to hell. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. This is just a prime example of the liberal bandwagoning that's been going on.

I think that it is much worse for us to look like Nazis than for us to look weak.

There's an old Usenet saying that dictates anybody comparing another thing to Hitler or the Nazi regime has pretty much already lost an argument.

am outraged by the useless killing. Get out of Iraq! Stop the war on error!

This is really the lol part. Ignore the fact innocent Iraqis have been killed by Al Queda in Iraq and the fact we've helped them get running water and electricity for political leverage. Once they can hold up, forces leave. Get over it.
Edited June 30, 2006 by Kioku (see edit history)

[Brian Gillingham 0]

"What is paraphrasing?" I'll take other common sense somebody will overlook for 500, Alex.

 

You're just hopping on the liberal bandwagon. If we were there for oil, wouldn't gas prices be a bit lower? Controll newspapers? Nobody needs to know how we're protected. If you want information falling into the wrong hands, feel free.

 

All in all, without liberal douchebags whining, things would've gone smoother. Without having to be politically correct every five seconds, we smashed down Japan and the Axis powers. Back then, we could have anti-japanese propoganda, drop Fat man and Little boy, and worry about the rest later. I could honestly care if a liberal douche bag newspaper like the New York Times gets in trouble for reporting stuff they shouldn't be that risks our nationa's security. Revolution? Hardly. People will just whine about it as they have been doing. Go watch Al Gore's movie about Global Warming if you like exaggeration so much.

 

We can't just pull out. Their country would go to hell. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. This is just a prime example of the liberal bandwagoning that's been going on.

There's an old Usenet saying that dictates anybody comparing another thing to Hitler or the Nazi regime has pretty much already lost an argument.

This is really the lol part. Ignore the fact innocent Iraqis have been killed by Al Queda in Iraq and the fact we've helped them get running water and electricity for political leverage. Once they can hold up, forces leave. Get over it.

 

Douchebag? How objective. Name calling is really mature. I know - I know - I called Bush a real nimrod, but he did say to the Iraqi resistance "bring it on!" and that certainly qualifies as a nimrod statement if there ever was one.

 

Kioku, fellow human, I really have to disagree with you - and say that I believe that you have a very closed-mind. First of all, liberal is not a bad word. The fact that we're in Iraq has nothing to do with getting running water or electricity to the citizens (which we're doing a pretty poor job - from what I have read - Baghdad has less water and electricity now than they did under Saddam). The mission was for WMD. They aren't there - we've declared "Mission Accomplished" - so leave! No WMD (well, there were some chemical shells leftover from who knows how long ago), so leave.

 

The problem is that now we've got to repair the literally broken the infrastructure in Iraq as well as keep fighting the butt-load of terrorist types (anti-american freedom fighters) that we attracted to the area.

 

I haven't ignored the fact that innocent Iraqis have been murdered. Today's news - 5 US soldiers are being tried for having raped and then burned an Iraqi woman to get rid of any evidence - that's only one murder... let's see -- how about the SANCTIONS that killed 500,000-800,000 innocent Iraqis?. And you call that not caring? You don't care that we'd actually do something that heartless, don't you - or you simply believe that it was all Saddam's fault - if he accepted our impossible terms, he could have saved his people. Do some research on this one and you will not want to reply on this point -- we are some ruthless sons of *BLEEP*es and I don't think that it is the right path, that's all.

 

Also, that release of information by the newspapers - does little to make it tougher for terrorists to operate. Many eyes are on the administration for its repeated abuses of power. This is yet another example where they decided to let the people make the decision. There is no WAR right now... we are fighting a tactic - and that will never end. Get wise... take a step back, and a deep breath and think about it.... how can we fight a tactic without killing all of the people who are sympathetic to their belief? I am afraid that it is the only way that we'd ever really win this "War".

 

BTW, I listened to a bit of Sean Hannity's show on Fox radio... I never heard him hang up on so many people that disagreed with him (it was all related to the recent Supreme Court ruling that Guantanamo prisoners deserve rights. Facts are facts, we captured some dangerous goat farmers - and we don't want them to have any rights). What a douchebag - just like Mr. Kioku - wave that flag of hate!