Goths

[keri-j 0]

I have to deal with that kind of treatment all the time at school! It doesn't help that i'm not straight, in a catholic school. But mostly it's the constant dirty looks, and people calling me "goth" or "grunger" in a disgusted tone of voice. And it's all because of the music i listen to and the clothes i wear out of school. I listen to musical artists like Nirvana, Metalica, Slipknot and Linkin Park, and i dress almost totally in black, because it's my favourite color, and brings out my blue eyes

[Madkat-Z 0]

I'm personally against sterotyping and labeling, because no matter what you do you never will fit into that label perfectly. Sadly this is what I've have observed way too many times in US culture, where people just because the sterotype/label, because it was "in" at the moment in time. I know a person who dress gothic and everything, but when she hangs around other people who are gothic, she sticks out like a sore thumb. Especially when she tries and fakes the whole "I'm so depressed" rutine. The only reason she decided to go gothic was because of her boyfriend.

[xaetos 0]

I do however have a problem with the EMO (emmo) kids that cut there wrists and arms and beat the crap out of themselves because they are depressed and stuff. Whats the point with that? I mean its so stupid, yeah beat your self so you (whats the purpose)?

Yeah, its stupid, but not for the reasons you think. Emo kids are the ones who do it for attention. They don't actually feel any of the "mental anguish" they claim to. You shouldn't try to figure out why they do stuff like that, because its only for attention. But there are people out there who do this kind of thing and no one knows.. its near impossible to understand why unless you've been in that situation yourself, and even then its hard because everyone has different reasons. It is a stupid thing to do, but if you don't understand what its all about, you shouldn't..generalize. I don't know how to explain what I'm trying to say, so sorry if this makes no sense..
Anyways, as for the whole goths thing.. Supposedly I'm goth, but I'm never given a hard time about it. I don't try to be a specific stereotype, so its actually kindof a shock whenever someone says something about it. The other day my art teacher was explaining how I could photoshop a picture to make it look cool, and mentioned how I could compare myself before and after I got all "gothy", and I just.. stood there. Maybe I do get singled out because of it, maybe I don't.. I never really notice o.O

[Kioku 0]

Stop trying to say close-minded already. If you try to alienate yourself from the rest of society, you're an outcast and most likely a loser. Get over it. It's your choice to lable yourself as a goth, not theirs. Wearing black, pretending to be depressed, listening to god awful music, trying to be controversial with an upside down fairy tale symbol, and writing even worse poetry most likely in a notebook while wearing a black trench coat three sizes too big will not make you cool. Of course, people are most likely going to complain after this post about BEING OPEN MINDED, but who cares? I don't. I'm going to make some goth get emotional, but oh well. It has to be said. If everyone was OPEN MINDED, I'd have to accept some weirdo who likes to walk outside naked or call a person who likes making sweet, sweet love to a toaster normal. I guess saying the obvious will make me a "prep" or "conformist", according to some goths.Another thing all goths hate is the President. I've came to notice this. Even when they're incapable of having any political opinion of their own, they will hate the President with no clue of what's going on in the world. Do they even have reasons most of the time? No. It's to fit in.Being a goth doesn't make you unique. Kids who wear black and pretend as if though that makes them smart to psychologically set them above the others come a dime a dozen. Get over it.

Edited June 7, 2006 by Kioku (see edit history)

[iGuest 3]

Gothic-ness

Goths

 

I don't think anyone else should have a God damn problem with the things you wear and how you dress,its about you isnt it,

 

I mean I'm not exactly a goth but I love the things they wear and I admire the way they have the guts to wear it lol I think people that think things like this about Goths should respect differences its just because there only used to seeing the same old people and then when someone different comes along they cant deal with it,be who you are and be proud

 

-Blake

[Caius 0]

Disclaimer: This is writen by me, an exhausted logician-philosopher in training, so incomprehensibility is not my direct responsibility on any level other than neccessitating improvement.

 

For those who don't want to read much, glean at least this (read it anyways if are going to read the rant):

 

[minirant]

Goth: "Don't let others hold you down, including yourself, and speak out against the problems you see, show who you are by your style and how you are different from them." [also, don't put down people for differences in intelligence, interests or conviction, you're just wasting time discriminating. Unless they are just WRONG (i.e. n00bish, incorrect, hopelessly stupid, a proletariat)]

 

Emo: Emotional, "the world sucks, I am so hopeless, I'm going to show how hopless I am because no matter what I say I want pity and attention... maybe I want help or maybe I want to show off." [also, maybe they want help or a friend]

 

Emo note: Some don't show off or even look goth and are but friends and maybe family that you could help by being a friend to and listinging to their problems. Just make sure they know you are on their side. Don't lie if you don't. Don't fake it. Say if you really care as a friend in some way to lighten their load. If you don't care, I know this is contradictory to what most social and school systems say but, don't pretend to.

 

Also Emo (by the connotation I spread): "Ooooh I may not be smart but I want to be popular and get attention so I'll cave on my base emotional desires and immerse myself in a culture I don't understand, 'cause all it is to me is a style (well, not that it isn't) and I'm gonna tottally be a goth!"

 

Jerk: "You don't know what I know, you're stupid, I subscribe to a nihilist, elitist, philosophy and you are naught but a mindless proletariat because you don't like good music. I am cynical and possibly sadistic/masochistic, so I matter more than you because I am a tortured soul (or pretend to be).

 

 

Final minirant thoughts: Goths are not annoying. People who think they are goths and aren't are. Emos can be, especially because of their part in the introduction of low cut "cracky" jeans to the public... it is almost always annoying, they almost always have to pull them up, and it is an overdone and tacky style when forced onto the public in such quantity.

 

People can be goth and emo at the same time, but when faced with a music elitist know that they are no goth, just a self-centered independant music fan, and probably a jerk.

 

[/minirant]

 

Okay, thats the basics of it. To see all relevant logical basis of this see below.

 

[ranty]

 

Core Gothic culture as defined by its origins, key aspects, and "true" goths is a culture of avoiding the stupidity innate in world culture by criticising it and in the least seperating themselves from stupid culture by embracing the images of darkness and demons, whatever culture they are from, and sometimes dressing in "dark" fashions to show how there is neither nothing to fear from darkness or to tell culture to fear them if that is their foolish idiom. Many modern people of fame have also attempted to use goth culture's closeness with the symbol of "darkness" as bad to expand to hedonism--this is not what the culture is or began as. To simplify, think of Core Gothic culture as, well, hippies I guess, not neccessaryily gods in social power but advocating free love, freedom, and social progress; except unlike hippies, goths revel in the cultural fear of change and rarely fall to endless optimism that so defined hippies. Gothic culture is sometimes taken as cynical and exclusive of those less informed with independant and non-corporate sanctioned music and poetry. Exclusivism is not what goths are, exclusivism is contradictory to the the drug marajuana's effects that helped and still helps define gothic culture today: mellow and accepting, laid back.

 

Gothic-ness began with punk and is kind of refreshing sometimes in its new fashion and counter culture that otherwise would not be interesting not cool. As much as one may have discomfort at saying it, though, the core and the basis of the gothic and emo cultures both were derived from feelings of self-pity and seperateness relating to their lives and conflict with those in power in their life. Gothic culture is a modern "counter-culture" building off of things as varied as 1800's Gothic poetry and literature dealing with romance, often fantasy, in a horror setting, also the heavy metal (light and dark rock of the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties). The gothic culture, in being a self-described counter-culture gone mainstream, brings in many people calling themselves gothic who lack the true aspects of the social definition. These aspects are things such as a laid back nature, possible enjoyment in dark colors for what culture takes them to represent, enjoyment in music of various types but generally including the themes of freedom, futility of emotion including love, draw of emotion including love and hate, and also themes of darkness, light, lonelyness, sadness, insanity, and an interest in what culture fears and why. Gothic culture in a long-term perspective could and perhaps will be considered a flirtation with societal and psychological fears and perhaps not bad endings but the basic fact of rarely knowing the ending at all and that the world holds much irony and uncertainty (this is difficult to understand unless you think of most gothic songs with story, often deal with emotion and rarely have a definite, certain ending).

 

Also, suicide may sometimes be gothic if utilitarian in nature, but otherwise it is emo in thought process.

 

Emo-ism could be seen as a culure of hopelessness, depression, cynicism, and based on falling into emotional falacy and being unable to escape on ones own at a certain time. Emo-ism of this type is a psychological phenomenon sometimes manifesting in people dressing how they would portray any chaotic or depressed feelings of their own, this portrayal of inner angst and pain often follows the cultural rule of black is bad--an image that can be traced back to fear of darkness and thus the unknown.

 

Emo also connotates people who are just playing goth and perhaps really couldn't care less about people outside of their clique. These people follow their emotional need to feel like they fit in, they are the same type of people who follow and mimic any culture because they feel that it is cool.

 

All in all, my brain has got my vent out on how goths really should be perceived with no or few personal opinions on style and culture inserted. An intelligent being can evaluate style on his, or her, own.

[/ranty]

 

Frak, that was long.

[Caius 0]

Er, anyhow, my opinion on goths is that its just a method of self expression. Technically my social set is Goth/Logician, just what I am. For me, goth is a penchant for making people think of what they fear. As a goth, and I don't at a glance look very much like one in style (eeeee... a lot of it is just not my style and the rest is too expensive), I am interested in cultural fears and being "not stupid". Discrimination against goths is uncommon where I live, but there are a lot more pretenders who just want attention. I dunno, whatever is wrong with these people who feel more self-important by putting down others?edit: OOH... I use understanding their fears to manipulate them. Evil, a waste of time, but good practice for writing. Joking.I am really quite accepting and moderately cynical as a goth, and, in being a bit more into the culture than most around me I almost feel like feeling sorry for them Don't pity a goth, but with emos either secretly pity their foolishness...or imagine poking them with sticks. or inguanas. origami. or maybe tell them to get help and quit wallowing in self-pity. or faking....if you aren't too mature of a goth to waste your time on it. :::Sayonara:::

Edited January 11, 2008 by Caius (see edit history)

[strange-garden 0]

What do you expect? You're wearing a symbol that represents Satan lol.They may not be looking at you that way because you're a 'goth', they may be looking at you because you look lame. No offense, but I've never found goths scary or intimidating...I just think they look like tacky poses that try too hard, so don't kid yourself.I've been labled goth before because of my long black hair, naturally reddish lips and my pale skin, also because I wear dark eyeliner when I go out...I honestly like my look, I mean...I got my boyfriend from it haha.

[Archangel_Baw 0]

I've been there and done that, when I was a teen, (with the exception of the inverted cross), and I did one of 2 things:1- I completely ignored the looks on the faces of others. 2- I raised my hand as if to push the person away, smiled as if i was high as a kite, and said "Keep your difficult energy."Both worked well for me:) It kind of makes people realize that I'm NOT the problem. Their own judgement is.I do not exist to impress anyone, nor do I care about those who give me the old 'stink-eye'. I just go about my life as usual because my purpose for being here has nothing to do with people who have staring problems:)You will learn to just ignore it, better yet, avoid eye contact with them, I realize that's difficult to do when you are feel their eyes boring into you, and instinctively, you will always want to meet their eyes and 'stink eye' back, but instead, act as if they simply don't exist.and pretty soon you will be oblivious to it. It only takes 7 days to form a new habbit, and 14 days to quit an old one. so for 1 week ignore them, and for 2 weeks, fight the urge to have the evil-eye war.

Edited January 11, 2008 by Archangel_Baw (see edit history)

[Caius 0]

R. U. Certain, Archangel? Sure, the evil eye war may be unnecessary so I just mess with the Emos who stare for attention or those who seem to find great entertainment in the feeling of superiority over the racing ant-hill that is a city, school, or university. Here is the solution, a counter-eye preemptive strike.

 

Glance at staring people for approxomately 1.5 to 3 seconds with a single look (I myself go with mildly amused narrow-eyes and a sometimes a slight smirk if they are really being rediculous in emoness), this look shows you see their attention and mildly disdain their waste of time... or you end up just looking like another emogoth if you look wrong at them. If passing by, wait until they are about to pass out of your feild of vision and give another glance of like length (say 2 seconds) or if you are in the area for a while, wait until you leave and stare over, NEVER have the second glance a look of tottal amusement unless you wish to insult them. Make sure to add an evil, anaylytical, or mildly amused look so as to say one or more of the following:

 

1. You are wasting your time, find something better to do

2. You only revel in false shadows of self-importance

3. Why do you do such a pointless thing

4. You really are acting pathetic

At this point it doesn't matter if they are staring at you, if they catch YOU staring in a mildly offensive manor they may be weirded out.

 

But if you screw up you'll probably end up looking admiring of their emoness or saying "cute". Really. Don't try this if you cannot fake facial expressions and large sweeps of the eye to and from a stare.

 

In the end the goal is for them to feel like they were just laughed at, or, if you know them a little something akin to "quit making a fool of yourself."

 

Edit: After the evil eye ingagement ignore the emo. If they are going to continue acting in a way you don't like, you don't have to comment on it or condone it.

 

 

Not all goths stare, and not all starers in dark are goths. Learn.

 

 

I'm gonna sing the doom song now! Doom, doom, doom...doom, doom...

Edited January 14, 2008 by Caius (see edit history)

[iGuest 3]

Replying to skullzI back you up 100%-reply by psyco freak

[Yoji 0]

Well I am a Cyber Goth, and I have to deal with it I know that people don't like things they don't know about.But I don't care about that. Here where I live it is not bad to be different people like it, and they are open for it.I get alot of atention when i am working in the mall (I am wearing plastic neon tubes and futuristic clothes etc etc),when I am in Amsterdam alot of tourists want to make pictures with them of me.Thats the nice part The bad part is my piercings, i have dermal anchors (micro dermal) in the back of my nek and under my belly button,Some people like them and are curious about it but there are people who really hate them and think I am a creazy *bottom* who likes pain (in some way I do).And there a alot of places where people are closed minded and when I walk on the streets they look at me and wisper to others etc etc.But I don't care, this is who I am .... deal with it.It is just that people dont't understand others who don't think like they do. Thats all.

[gisellebebegirl 0]

eh i dont really deal with this, but i feel sorry for you, i mean people shouldnt care.. but yea they are small minded, and cant deal with people who are different than them i guess... so they stereotype you to be the son/daughter of the devil.i hate it when people do that. =/ i bet your the nicest person ever.. where do you live anyways? for you to be the only goth.. you do have friends right? if not im taking a plane and being your new best friend(:

[iGuest 3]

whats wrong with being gothGoths

Look at my school I am the only goth. Actually I'm the only goth for a few miles. All my teachers don't care about how I express myself but my math teacher. She hates it. When I walk into class with black make up on her first words to me are "WASH IT OFF"!! She is my 5th period. My 6th peirod teacher is next to my 5th period and of course they talk about how I shouldnt be goth and goths are wrong. I told her I have freedom of expression but she didnt care. If I get a reffural I... Just cant get one. I checked in the student code of conduct and you can wear black make up. She said she wants me to look presentable but it's like who am I presenting too! Man I hate her I wish my teachers would just let me express my self for the true person I am inside. My dad dosnt even agree with it. My mom could care less. Screw this I hate my child hood. /txtmngr/images/smileys/smiley7.Gif

-reply by XXcsinydannyXX

[frozen.fish 0]

what are goths? and emos anyways?honestly what's up with them? I listen to heavy metal and death metal and all that stuff since i started listening to music but I don't want to look like them or a rockstar either.. but still im not going to judge you for what you want to wear or look..