Framed Sites And Search Engine Optimisation Host framesyour site, do the spiders see it?

[jlhaslip 4]

A friend of mine has a site Hosted at a 'regional' Internet Provider. The service is next to free I think because the service also provides the connection at their home, so I think she has used the 'free' hosting from that, but at any rate, she doesn't seem to be able to 'find' the site throught Google searchs, so I suspect the answer to this question is already a known, but here it is:

She has a domain name. "http://www.coachinsideout.com/;, and the link to the site is http:http://www.coachinsideout.com/. If you link through to the site and do a view > source, you will see that they wrap her site and the subsequent pages inside a 'frameset'. This, I think, stops the spiders from indexing the pages, but I would like to have someone else confirm this before I make any recommendation to her about how to improve her site by moving to a provider which will offer better indexing by dropping the Frameset. The full source of the html page is available by linking directly to the sub-domain http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/. It is table-based and heavy with graphics, but a decent enough layout with some content which is growing and improving all the time, but I feel she is missing out on the possibility of improving her exposure by not getting indexed properly.

A move to Xisto - Web Hosting might be a good reccomendation?

[WindAndWater 0]

As far as I can tell Google's spider will follow frameset tags (although other search engines may not). The problem is that because the frameset page contains squat for data and links it's never going to be ranked highly (if at all) on google. If she wants to stay with her current provider, maybe there's a way to not use frames, or at least use meta tags and noframe tags?

[Tyssen 0]

If it's a new site with a new domain, you gotta be aware of Google's ageing delay.

[jlhaslip 4]

Tyssen: yes, into the 'sandbox', I know that it takes a while for that aspect, but the site has been in place for about a year already under the shadow of the 'frameset' and it doesn't show at all when searching on google.W and W : The site has the meta tags for description and keywords in place on every page, but it doesn't appear to be getting the search engines / spiders to see them, so I doubt if the engines a) search the provider because most of the sites hosted there are personal sites or:angry: there isn't enough traffic to the Provider to have them visited often enough orc) the content isn't changed frequently? Once every two or three months might not be enough???

[Spectre 0]

That's not entirely true. There are numerous framed sites that are ranked well on Google. One problem is that only the very first page will be indexed under the domain name - any other pages linked to from within the frames should be indexed with their real URL (ie. mypage.uniserve.ca/~insideout/page.html), unless she links to them via the domain name (ie. coachinsideout.com/page.html) and it is set up to allow such forwarding.

 

I wouldn't recommend using a framed site, but if you have no other choice, then don't freak about not being indexed or ranked - it will happen.

[anwiii 17]

i didn't check google yet for the listing, but i did notice that it is indexed on yahoo and dmoz. this is a good start but then i know that google takes alot of their new listings from both these sources. so that is the bad news that her site hasn't been listed yet after a year. 2 problems i notice just by looking at the address is that it is on a subdomain(not too big of a problem) and that her home page is actually a directory(more of a problem) and the biggest problem is that there's a tilda inside the address of the directory. this could be her whole problem alltogether but don't quote me. now i ran a check through ibp and i will give you a quick rundown on the last general section. i haven't read through it but i hope it helps and if it doesn't solve the problem, get back to me and i will look in to it deeper.as far as what the spider sees, that seems fine. most spiders including googles should see most of her webpage although if your friends wants good s.e.o., her whole site needs tweeking but the issue right now is to just get it indexed i know, then worry about the other things, so here's the basice general rundown i have....then i am going to check google....Do the following to improve the ranking for your web site on Google.com for the search term "inside out" >> Search engines need text to index your web pages, to determine the theme of your web site and to produce a site summary. They cannot read what is written on your graphical images or in a Flash movie. Google recommends to create a useful, information-rich site. Fresh, continuously updated content is one of the best ways to ensure that search engines return to your web site (and your visitors, too). Your web page "http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/; contains only 95 words. It is strongly recommended to add more text to your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "career" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "team building" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "development" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "true colors" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "communication skills" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "time management" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "personal" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "development" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "executive" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "corporate" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "training" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "conflict resolution" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "time management" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "stress" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "customer" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "personality" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "career planning" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "temperament" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "harmony" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "guidance" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "golden" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "british" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "columbia" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "bc" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "canada" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.>> Some search engines penalize web sites if the search terms of the Meta Keywords tag don't appear in the body text of the web page. The search term "kootenay" of your Meta Keywords tag doesn't seem to be mentioned in the body text of your web page. You should either remove this search term from your Meta Keywords tag, or add the search term to the body text of your web page.OK Your web page doesn't use the Meta Refresh tag so there won't be any problems with the search engines in this aspect.OK Your web page doesn't use the Meta Robots tag so there won't be any problems with the search engines in this aspect.OK Your web page doesn't use the Meta Title tag so there won't be any problems with the search engines in this aspect.OK Your web page doesn't use any Dublin Core meta tags so there won't be any problems with the search engines in this aspect.OK Your web page doesn't use any Meta tags twice so there won't be any problems with the search engines in this aspect.OK Your web page doesn't use the <title> tag twice so there won't be any problems with search engines in this aspect.OK Some search engines and directories don't accept submissions with capitalized letters in the document title or in the meta tags. Your web page doesn't use all capitalized letters in those web page elements so there won't be any problems with the search engines in this aspect.OK Your web page doesn't use any scripts at all so there won't be any problems with the search engines in this aspect.OK Your web page uses style sheet code in an external file so you've already minimized the problems with style sheets and the search engines.OK Your web page doesn't use frames so there won't be any problems with the search engines in this aspect.>> Some search engines consider tiny text (i.e. font size 1) as an attempt to fool the search engines. Some webmasters have abused tiny text in the past to hide dozens of keywords on a web page that human web surfers cannot see. Your web page seems to use 43 letters in a very small font size ("Life Coaching, Mentoring and Certification"). Consider removing as much of the tiny text as possible to prevent penalizing from some search engines.OK Your web page URL "http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/; doesn't indicate a dynamically served web page so there shouldn't be any problems with the search engines in this aspect.OK Your web page URL "http://forums.xisto.com/no_longer_exists/; doesn't contain any of the special characters "&", "$", "%", "?" or "=" in it so there shouldn't be any problems with the search engines in this aspect.OK Some search engines and directories rank web sites lower that are hosted at free web space providers, or if web sites don't have their own domain name. Some search engines also limit the number of web pages they'll index from a single domain. Your web site doesn't seem to be hosted at a free web space provider. If it does, consider getting your own domain name.

[anwiii 17]

ok. her site is indexed on google so that isn't the problem but her website is just not relevant where the spiders are concerned and will have a much lower ranking than yahoo and dmoz where their directories are hand submitted by humans.i went to her site and read the source and 90% of her site is all graphics. tell your friend that she has a nice webpage but s.e.o. is give an take. she will have to make her site less graphic so the spiders can read the content on her page, if she wants google traffic and all other search engine traffic(not incuding directories like yahoo and dmoz) then she will have to totally redo her whole site OR sign up for google adwords and pay for some key word listings. your friend has a lot of work ahead if they want google to acknoledge this site. google has it listed in their main index and not their sub index(i'm even surprised about THAT) so that's the good news....which is very little. goggle doesn't recognize ANY of your friends keywords and even the majority of the description metatag. and that is just the basics of s.e.o.so there you have it. that's a start. if you need more help or a full report on ibp, i'll send you one for free but if your friends starts whith just the small info given already, it will do WONDERS in about 1 month after optimizingi say a month because the site has probabably been listed longer than anyone realized and google hasn't noticed ANY FRESH NEW CONTENT on that page so it slowed that pages indexing in how often the page gets spideredso now it's up to your friend to make a decision wether it's worth it to redo the whole site or not. i say it is because it can look good too without the graphics(just takes time and hard work to redo) and the traffic will be enourmous eventually in another year if done right and make good use of the key words which the keywords are CRAP too....too many and some are repeated. you don't need that mainy. just 4-5 main ones that which don't compete with the majority of the compitition that still get high relatively high search volume.example. stay away from search terms that 1 million websites are competing even if the search term is used 50k times a month. your friend is nowhere NEAR getting close to a top 10 listing for the simple fact she doesn't have any websites linking back to her(that google found) so better to use a search term that gets 1000 hits a month and only 1000 websites compete for. the ratio is a lot better(do the math) and easier to get a top 10 listing for those key words and ALOT easier to optimise a site for 3-4 or even 5 keywords rather than.....heck....i didn't count but your friend had about 20 or something. if you get a top 10 ranking on a search term that gets only 200 searches a month, that's unique hits a month and potential business your friend would not normally have....and that's for a not so common but specific keyword. a secret to keywords is to use 2-3 words in the keyword. not 1 word. make the keywords more specific and you will have fewer websites competing and the keywords will drive more targeted traffic.hope this helped buddy. only reason why i took time out for this is because i see you on alot helping other people so what goes around comes around. wish your friend some luck and if need any help in the future, lemme know.

[anwiii 17]

ok, further investigation shows that google has ALL her links indexed and not just the main page. i only checked this to see if the suggestion someone had earlier held true in this situation where it would only index the main page. so this is definately NOT and indexing problem but an s.e.o. problem as all pages are clearly indexed

[anwiii 17]

oh, and to answer your question about moving to a new web hosting providor, that is a definate yes. and Xisto - Web Hosting would be perfect for now, they are cheap and affordable and you would get rid of the subdomain and the directory her main page is on. tell 'r to get a top level domain by either paying for it or get one of those free .info domains they are still giving away for free for a year(the site link is in one of the threads you need to search for). which are top level domains. but i don't suggest a main page being in a subdomain OR a directory. they'll still get listed and it's still possible to get a high listing, but she is far from that right now for a few reasons so i suggest starting out small and growing. optimize the site with less graphics so there is more body text and the spiders see the keywords, add an h1 and an h2 tag with key words within it, she NEEDS to evetually get sites linking back to hers. that takes time, update at LEAST her main page every week with new content. the easiest way is a news feed that DOESN'T USE JAVA SCRIPT. so the spiders can see the new content. google adsense is an example of fresh content that is optimized for your site but it's not search engin frindly because the code is script so spider wont see google ads(unfortunately). or just write the new content by hand but the easiest way is newsfeeds. news feeds are fresh content BUT it isn't unique content. search engines are getting more smart in finding and sorting unique content so in the future, it's best to get in the habit of updating by hand. bothersom and time consiming but will be necessary in the near future for higher rankings in my opinion. if she updates once a week, the seach engines will revisit once a week. if she updates once a month, the search engines will adjust to revisit once a month. they learn about your website and the spiders have a memory on that stuff. you don't need the revisit tag as some still think they need it. spiders are smart now. if someone has a revisit in 7 days tag and only updates 2 times a year, the spiders wont revisit in 7 days, but every 6 months. i would stuff some more key words inside alt tags too. and any keywords she has DEFINATELY needs to be in the body of the text at least 5 times depending on how many total words are in the body of the text. key word density is important. some search engines will penalize if the density is too high......meaning too many of the same key words within the body of the text. i don't think the ratio should be more than 2% -> 2/100 -> 2 of the same key words out of every 100 words on the page. key word stuffing doesn't work anymore. websites get banned for life for that stuff and shouldn't be taken lightly. you then have to buy another domain and start all over gtting your site indexed and optimized and wait another year for a decent effect.ok...now i'm really going to bed now....i can't think anymore