I Am Scientist And I Believe In God Believer Scientists

[techclave 0]

I have been wondering about this issue since my childhood days .. I have asked many people ,belonging to different religions as to how universe exists according to their religion, and about how God came into existence. Whenever my friends get to answer my questions , they would usually quit within four or five questions. But whatever little they said , made sense. I do support ebula's argument. If there was so much of an evolution once , why don't we have any sort f evolution these days. Why cant evolution theory supporters create a cell with the technology available in today's world ?? I am a hindu. I once visited Watch Towers ,. Bangalore .A non profit organization working to spread the message of Bible. I had a tour guide there , who was a member of the organization. It was an Industrial visit from my college. So , basically , we were taken around the campus to get a glimpse of the printing technology , and graphics department over there. But we were lucky enough to have a tour guide , who really knew something about God. There were about ten students there. Whatever question ,we tossed at him, he easily answered us back with assuring words. His answers were vivid , and to the point. After the end of the conversation, we really felt happy, and started believing in God without any doubt in mind. Actually , we were exhausted of questions to ask him. So, if any of you happen to reide or viit Bangalore, visit Watch Towers. Apart from spiritual and technical knowledge you can gain there, the place is also stunning. Most of it is automated. They generate electricity for their organization's hostels and work place ,themselves. They also had a water refinement plant built in there. The place is also picture perfect. I think the tour guide's name is Ranjan. He really made some difference to my questions about how earth evolved .. If yu can get him to guide you, you might be pretty lucky. One easy way my friend answer these questions... " Leave your doubts about God to God. He is the one who created you. You have no right to question him ,back . Instead , you need to be thankful to him "

[Yratorm, LightMage 0]

So, if any of you happen to reide or viit Bangalore, visit Watch Towers. I think the tour guide's name is Ranjan. He really made some difference to my questions about how earth evolved .. If yu can get him to guide you, you might be pretty lucky.

Hmm. This rather depends on one's definition of luck.

To be honest, I don't think the human exists on this planet today with the wisdom or the knowledge to truly answer some of the most pertinent questions that face us. And I'm generally wary of people who tell me not to question, it gives me the creeps, to be honest. I believe that the race progresses because humans have always pondered the ways of the cosmos, and asked 'why?' and then searched for answers to that question.

I would look into the eyes of a god and ask him my questions, even if I were to be destroyed that very instant for my audacity - and I would not waver. The ability to ask why, to question even the most high and sacred beliefs, the ability to doubt, this is what makes humanity great - who knows, perhaps one day it might open the very gates to the stars to us. And I would rather stand on a distant world and watch an alien sun rise than bend knee to any of humanity's myriad gods. To be honest I don't like the idea of bending knee at all, neither to god or man or demon. Freedom is more important to me than religion.

[kasm 0]

..so you say that you don't believe in evolution, and instead choose to believe in god,

It is not quite right. I didn't say that I don't believe in evolution because I believe in micro-evolution not the macro-evolution. The first is a real science the second is belief. [for the types of evolution see the last pragraph or the thraed : Evolution Is Not Science Nor Scientific Theory

 

Second I didn't agree that Ion "instead choosed to believe in God" because I believe in God before that and and this event strengthened my belief.

.., well there are many religions out there, who is to say that you aren't following the wrong one? I personally don't believe in a "god" as such, life may have been created by some extra terrestrial life form, we may even be a science experiment for some aliens somewhere. I don't think any god could sit back and let people who follow all his beliefs get shot and tortured and raped and things like that. If that is who god is, I don't want to believe in him........

When you belief in something mean you go in that way whatever the other ways. That is reason to call it belief". Exactly as you said you "believe in Evolution" even you don't explain which one?.

I wonder how you believe in "aliens" which was created by the science fiction and expanded in Hollywood films and series.

 

you say "life may have been created by some extra terrestrial life form" why you can not call that God. By the way you used "may" which means you not certain but you believe in that.

 

If God is exist, you will the looser and if not I am not loosing anything.

 

If God exist then you don't have excuses to not belief upon your opinion that He agrees on the bad things to be happened.. He allows things for purposes. Look in nature, how one animal food is another one without that no cycle. How the seed be died first to generate another life. Sun produces a hazards material but it is necessary to lightening the earth. In the same time He invited the atmosphere to protect the Earth and the life on the Earth.

also I must say that your original post seemed to me to focus a lot more on your medical issues than god/religion/science

No my post wasn't complain for my status nor it was inquire for medical advice. I want to show how these 2 tiny pituitary glands could have all these functions. No one can explain how the "extra terrestrial life form" can produce that. Exactly as the Darwinism are failing to explain how the eyes was evolved.

 

Now I will quote the types of evolution as was quoted in previous discussions: "Evolution Is Not Science Nor Scientific Theory" at http://forums.xisto.com/index.php?sho318&hl=kasm

In school text books there is confusion in the use of the term 'evolution' . There are many different ways the word 'evolution' is used. It is very important to be quite clear about the sense in which one is using the word. One of these definition Evolution as minor variations and adaptations (which is in fact the micro evolution definition). So it is better to count the types of the evolution. There are 6 types of evolution known to me: [i will quote them to avoid accusing me of cutting and paste . It is from my accumulated knowledge base from many sources]:

QUOTE (i) Cosmic Evolution (the origin of space, time, matter and energy from nothing, there are 5 different theories competing . Each has its strength or weakness. The famous one the "big bang" theory does not address the major question, "where did everything come from?" . How did this explosion cause order, while every explosion causes only disorder and dist ructions? Also the Big Bang also violates two out of three Laws of Thermodynamics);

 

(ii) Chemical Evolution:(the development of the higher elements from hydrogen- assumptions);

 

iii) Stellar and Planetary Evolution (the origin of stars and planets amount to anything more than "fairy tales," and imagination has no part in real science);

 

iv) Organic Evolution (the origin of organic life. Spontaneous Generation as the Origin of Life, despite the apparent contradiction to empirical science). Francesco Redi and Louis Pasteur have succeeded in disproving Spontaneous Generation long time ago.

 

(v) Macro Evolution (Large-scale, or major changes from one kind of life form to another (assumption) involving innovations in structure or body plan, or new organs. Nothing approved that happen and is still lack of transitional fossils in the fossil record, and the harmful trend of genetic mutation. ,

 

(vi) Micro Evolution (small-scale, or minor changes and adaptations within a population of life forms i.e. the variation within the kinds). This observed and documented. It does not result in leaps between one kind of life form and another, but in a wide variation of types of this same form. Although we observe many varieties within the group, a finch remains a finch, a virus a virus, a moth a moth, etc. We are familiar with breeding process to produce various kinds of horses, cows, cheep, dogs, cats,...etc.. The "variation within a kind" is what Darwin observed in the mid-1800's, and what we still observe today... Also We all know and recognize the viruses and bacteria development as well as the development of the defence system But no scientist has ever seen a host animal develop a new defense mechanism causing it to evolve into a higher life-from; similarly, no one has ever witnessed a parasite develop a new, improved attack method that ultimately resulted in its transformation into a new species. (macro evolution if occurred) .

[Erin 0]

I want to believe in God but I find it hard to do so, always have. Especially since, when I was 11, I watched my grandfather go from being a large man to a skeleton, then die. I always wondered why a God would do that to someone - give them horrible pain, turn them into someone unrecognizable, allow them to waste away before their loved one's eyes then take them away without even a goodbye. I just don't know if I want to believe a "good and loving" God would do something like that.I consider myself, at the moment, an Agnostic. I am the type of person who is searching for something to believe in; looking for the place I belong. I find myself more attracted towards the Buddhist and Muslim religions more than any others. I don't know if I'll ever believe but I am trying.

Edited December 29, 2006 by Erin (see edit history)

[master_bacarra 0]

i don't get it... what's the connection of you being a scientist and believing in god to you having the tumor removed? forgive me if i sounded rude on that. i just don't get your point.with that said, based on the topic, i too am a scientist (or that's how my course describes it), and i believe that there is a god, but i don't believe that that god has the power to do all sorts of stuff. i believe more of evolution rather than the creation of man (adam and eve). i believe that the god that i used to know in my religion is just there watching everything. now that might sound more like me being an atheist, since a god that doesn't do anything doesn't really serve the purpose of being a god, thus eliminating the existence altogether.

[truefusion 3]

I want to believe in God but I find it hard to do so, always have. Especially since, when I was 11, I watched my grandfather go from being a large man to a skeleton, then die. I always wondered why a God would do that to someone - give them horrible pain, turn them into someone unrecognizable, allow them to waste away before their loved one's eyes then take them away without even a goodbye. I just don't know if I want to believe a "good and loving" God would do something like that.

If you want to help someone, but they reject you, would you keep pushing till you get through? Wouldn't that push them even further away? The Love of God is accessible to anyone, but many choose to not accept it. Even through the toughest of all times, a life for God, the love of God, will get you through them. Did your grandfather accept God's love? This life is short, but God gives eternal life.
[hr=noshade]

with that said, based on the topic, i too am a scientist (or that's how my course describes it), and i believe that there is a god, but i don't believe that that god has the power to do all sorts of stuff. i believe more of evolution rather than the creation of man (adam and eve). i believe that the god that i used to know in my religion is just there watching everything. now that might sound more like me being an atheist, since a god that doesn't do anything doesn't really serve the purpose of being a god, thus eliminating the existence altogether.

Yeah, that does sound like atheism. But, in your view, since this "god" can't do all sorts of things, therefore, it must be human and did not create the heavens and the earth. Although, the most logical explanation on how all of this came into existence is through some Supernatural, Supreme Being—One that can do whatever They set Their Mind to. Evolution doesn't explain on how all of this came into existence, it just says on how it got from one thing into another. What's your belief on how all of this came into existence?[/hr]

[Erin 0]

Did your grandfather accept God's love?

I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with anything? LOL But yes, if you would like to know - my grandfather was "born-again" when he died... he was scared of dying without asking forgiveness, etc.

[truefusion 3]

I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with anything? LOL

Heh, i think the question is more: Why did you mention your grandfather, in the first place?

But yes, if you would like to know - my grandfather was "born-again" when he died... he was scared of dying without asking forgiveness, etc.

That is great to know that he accepted the gift of life offered by God. May Peace and Grace be with him.[hr=noshade]If you don't mind me asking where you mentioned that he had suffered pain, what kind of pain did he suffer?[/hr]

[Erin 0]

Why did you mention your grandfather, in the first place?

Because I wanted to give an explaination in why I am Agnostic His death was the greatest tragedy of my life - he and my grandmother raised me... he was my light, my life. He died, and I kind of did too... just as my family did. You never know how much someone is holding you and your family together until they die and he was the one who held us together. Nothing is the same anymore, not even me.

If you don't mind me asking where you mentioned that he had suffered pain, what kind of pain did he suffer?

He had colon cancer - when he finally got to the doctor, it was so advanced that he was unable to do chemo or anything so all they did was open him up, take out as much as they could, and then he had to wait to die. He had a cathater(?) and everything... I remember him bleeding a lot - sitting on the couch and not feeling the blood coming out but myself or someone else noticing red on the couch when he'd move. Once I remember him getting up and being helped to the washroom and the blood would drip all the way there. The last time that happened I was at school and my grandmother called the ambulance because it was coming out "like a faucet." I got home and there was still blood on the bathroom walls - it had splashed up off the floor... thats how badly it was coming out.

It wasn't just physical pain (there was A LOT of that) but emotional too... at the end he didn't even bother covering up because he said he had lost all his dignity so it didn't matter anymore. He knew he was going to die, though I thought he wouldn't (I was only 11). I didn't understand. But I remember him crying a lot. I guess it just didn't sink in.

Depressing, I know. But when I get started I can't stop. LOL Probably more than you wanted to know! LMAO
Edited December 30, 2006 by Erin (see edit history)

[kasm 0]

i don't get it... what's the connection of you being a scientist and believing in god to you having the tumor removed? forgive me if i sounded rude on that. i just don't get your point. with that said, based on the topic, i too am a scientist (or that's how my course describes it), and i believe that there is a god, but i don't believe that that god has the power to do all sorts of stuff. i believe more of evolution rather than the creation of man (adam and eve). i believe that the god that i used to know in my religion is just there watching everything. now that might sound more like me being an atheist, since a god that doesn't do anything doesn't really serve the purpose of being a god, thus eliminating the existence altogether.

1. It seem that you didn't read my post. I didn't say that removing the tumber has connection with God. I said when the tumor was removed they removed with it a 2 tiny pituitary gland and I have now a hormon replacement course and take daily 6-7 medication to reduce the impact of loosing this gland. Then I explained how many functions these tiny glands are doing. Then the question is : does the Evolution thories can explan how these glads come to be. I don't think so as it failed to explain eye evolution.

 

2. I don't claim that every scientist is believer. But I want to declare my staus. There are millions of scientist are believer as the case in the past and as Newton, Galilio, Friday,Pasteur,Mendil,Mendleef,.etc,...

 

3. The deiscussion here not about Evolution and Creation or Evolution and God but it is question of looking the miracle design that in our body [read last sentence in my post] including these tiny gland. How they control Groth, Hair, Sex activities, Milk production, dehidration, Works of kidney, works of heart,works of another glands...

[truefusion 3]

. . . Probably more than you wanted to know! LMAO

>_< Yeah, that was a bit disturbing. Was totally not expecting that..
But have you ever read the book of Job (42 chapters)? Or the book of Ecclesiastes (12 chapters)? I'm sure you can somewhat relate to the book of Job; quite a big book, indeed, but Job's responses are quite intriguing.

[master_bacarra 0]

Yeah, that does sound like atheism. But, in your view, since this "god" can't do all sorts of things, therefore, it must be human and did not create the heavens and the earth.

no it doesn't necessarily go that way. just because he can't do all sorts of things doesn't equate him being a human. existence isn't limited to being a human or being a god. my point is that his existence is acknowledged but i don't believe that he is capable of doing such greatly stuff.

Although, the most logical explanation on how all of this came into existence is through some Supernatural, Supreme BeingOne that can do whatever They set Their Mind to. Evolution doesn't explain on how all of this came into existence, it just says on how it got from one thing into another. What's your belief on how all of this came into existence?

but the religion doesn't explain things clearly as well. for me, i believe the theories that science has explained and has presented to man since early days. though the term 'theory' doesn't mean it is true, but compared to what the bible has presented, the former presents a more reasonable explanation for existence.

[master_bacarra 0]

1. It seem that you didn't read my post. I didn't say that removing the tumber has connection with God. I said when the tumor was removed they removed with it a 2 tiny pituitary gland and I have now a hormon replacement course and take daily 6-7 medication to reduce the impact of loosing this gland. Then I explained how many functions these tiny glands are doing. Then the question is : does the Evolution thories can explan how these glads come to be. I don't think so as it failed to explain eye evolution.

oh sorry. it's just that the post is sooo long, that i was reading too fast and i missed the important notes hidden in between lines. evolution theories doesn't directly explain how these glands came to be, but as part of the evolutionary process, when a creature evolves to a higher form, it is able to adopt to its environment. to do this, the creature's body processes are affected by the chemicals secreted by these glands. so one can say that these glands have, in some way, affect a creature's existence and it's evolution through time.

3. The deiscussion here not about Evolution and Creation or Evolution and God but it is question of looking the miracle design that in our body [read last sentence in my post] including these tiny gland. How they control Groth, Hair, Sex activities, Milk production, dehidration, Works of kidney, works of heart,works of another glands...

ah yes, i get your point. that because of God and his power, he is able to do such miracles. i get it and i respect your opinion. to each is his own. that's why i also mentioned my opinion, which may be about evolution, by my point was trying to explain in scientifically, and of course, my opinion about religion.

[Erin 0]

>_< Yeah, that was a bit disturbing. Was totally not expecting that..

 

But have you ever read the book of Job (42 chapters)? Or the book of Ecclesiastes (12 chapters)? I'm sure you can somewhat relate to the book of Job; quite a big book, indeed, but Job's responses are quite intriguing.

 

No I haven't - I check it out when I have some time to do so Thanks

[githoko 0]

I have to agree absolutely with your view that there is not sufficient data on the subject. Kasm mentioned that it is the opinion of some that religion is a matter of faith an not reason. And stated that according to his experience evolution itself is a fiction and thus a matter of faith. What however is not, I think he will agree is carbon dating. There is arguement on the subject of the accuracy of carbon dating as well. I however cannot believe that the entire fossil record whose dating is also based on the geological assumptions.It is my belief that according to the bible the world is about 6000 years old, which that fossil record contradicts, unless both the important geological precepts and dating are to be deemed incorrect. This I think is pushing it.And in my view this alone is sufficient evidence that the book contains error and hence cannot claim to be born of divine inspiration. There are other issue I have with some biblical stories, particularly the one of Noah and his ark. The idea that Noah fit 1,250,000 species of animals = 2,5 M animals on his boat seems a little ridiculous to me and I think if one sat down and did the math the story would prove to be a ridiculous, I mean if on average each animal required 10 cm * 10 cm * 10 cm of space it would still require 2500 cubi meters to store all the animals and the idea of one man building a boat of that size is ridiculous. As is the story of angels in the clouds which my school teacher explained as "symbolic".This I think is where the crux of the matter lies. Somebody said in their explaination of metaphysics that a thought born of instinct is in itself and instinct. Carl Jung studied this phenomenon extensively in the creation of his analytical psychology. And the fact that the story of Noah, the story of the virgin birth, and others (I assume I am not really a biblical expert) can be found in other religion is more in line with the expression of primitive innate knowledge that Jung speaks of. Thus we cannot really call it reason, but instinct.This thus not disprove the existance of a god. What it does it that it means is that "if god did not exist man would have invented him". I think the problem is the same as that of the aliens. The mass mind's concern with aliens I think is the same as the Medieval mind's concern with magic. It seems completely logical that such things can be given our own culture, thus we have created superior figures than ourselves who practise the magic of science better than we do. We have no evidence that we are not the most advanced species in the universe, suppose we are. Which I hope, otherwise it would seem a waste creating billions and billions of stars and solar systems only to fit one them with life. Whether this is logic in the cold, unfeeling and unthinking universe, or just instinct I do not know but I think the medieval monk or witch hunter was under the same compulsion to believe that had to be true.It is not really a question of logic anyway, since in the experience of humans something of a higher order must give order to something of a lower order for the thing of a lower order to become more organized.The intellect for instance is expected to be applied in all truely functional creations. Thus for god to create the universe he would have had to be an intelligent and sentient being. The problem them comes to how did that order that existed within him that he create the ordered universe come about. To simply say it was just the is not really an arguement. Believers will often argue that life being an accident is ridiculous when in the end they cannot really prove that god himself was not an accident.So,ya I agree. Only the devil knows what the truth is. Only I am more inclined to go with the arguement that is based evidence as opposed to pure conjure.