Various Religions, beliefs and conviction discussions of faith and opinions

[Rena 0]

Used to feel strongly about this topic. Got over it.I'm an atheist because there isn't a way to prove that a religion is a correct one nor there is a way to prove the existance of God.When I was like 14 I acted all anti-religious (listened to Black Metal, pretended to worship Satan, wear an inverted cross and other crazy stuff). Now I just don't care.I respect the beliefs of everybody as long as they respect mine. But if people start shoving their opinions down my throat I do become very very irritated.Keep your beliefs to yourself.

[wild20 0]

Cometolife:You are an awesome contributer to this forum. People don't turn to religion because they are scared, or afraid of something. They do it because they feel God beckoning to them. He does to all of us. It is a matter of whether you want to listen or not. People have misconceptions of religion. But it is always the non-believers that make these false claims. And they have never even experienced God's love and grace! He sent His son, which is more then I know you guys would do. What is more is He was willing to do it even if only ONE person was saved.Religion isn't about a status thing. Remember that Christians are suppose to be humble. I don't think that people grasp the concept of the simple saving message of the Gospel. If nothing else, you can always give God a chance. Just one month of asking Him to show you the way, and I promise you He will. The Christian life is tough, just like other people's lives, but the difference is that you have your own Creator there with you. I think Christianity is the real religion. It is all about God and Jesus. Not fables and myths. It is always your choice. Religion should never be forced on anyone. You have to choose whether to accept God and His saving love and grace.

[ComeToLife 0]

Thank you for the encouragement wild20. I would like to make a quick remark about this statement below though. I thoroughly believe that if you turn to God, and truly submit your life to Him, He will show you the way. I will guarantee anyone who accepts Christ and surrenders to the Holy Spirit that this is true. But I also believe you can't "try God out" like ask Him for direction without having a relationship with Him, and expect Him to do anything for you. Nor do I believe you can just say "ok i'll try...God if there's a God...show me the way" I think His guidance and direction comes as a result of the relationship you have with Him...which is why I believe there are so many "ex-Christians" who "tried it and it didn't work."

You may not live what you profess, but you WILL live what you truly believe. If you profess to be a Christian but don't believe it, then no...it wont "work for you." Definitely accurate about the statement tho as long as you have a true relationship with Christ.

If nothing else, you can always give God a chance.  Just one month of asking Him to show you the way, and I promise you He will.

[wild20 0]

True cometolife. But I also believe that if you feel God calling and just say, "God, I want you in my life, but just don't know if you are really out there, sjow me the way", I believe He will. The main problem with people who don't believe is because they don't believe He exists. Which is the first problem. Like I said, religion isn't about a denomination, it is about a faith,a dn I believe that faith is the Christian faith. Obviously a religion, but one that we believe to be true because it is the only one that actually can explain itself.I think that there is also a difference than believing and actually doing it. For instance, I can preach all day about God's saving love, but I am lost in vain if I don't believe it.Listen guys, religion isn't somethingwe want to cram down your throat. But if you knew of a cure that would save so many people's lives, then you would proclaim it. And that is what we are doing, sharing are religion with you. And like I said, you can accept it, or you don't. It is up to you.

[CroSpartacus 0]

And most Catholics/Christians don't even try to cram religion down peoples throats. The only people I can think of are Jehovas Witnesses that go door to door. The teachings of Christianity do not want you to join only because of fear that you will go to hell. But when our belief's are being bashed I think it is our right to defend it.

[ComeToLife 0]

Thank you VERY much for this statement CroSpartacus. I believe this was right on the money. For whatever reason, it seems like our faith can be persecuted and insulted, but once we step up to defend it, people say we're "shoving it down their throats." I also agree with Wild20 that since I believe I know a truth that can redeem, bring healing, empower, and save so many people, I want to proclaim it. Obviously I'm not going to proclaim this truth to someone who tells me straightforward "I don't want to hear it!" Christ Himself didn't do that, He spoke to those who would listen.

 

And most Catholics/Christians don't even try to cram religion down peoples throats.  The only people I can think of are Jehovas Witnesses that go door to door.  The teachings of Christianity do not want you to join only because of fear that you will go to hell.  But when our belief's are being bashed I think it is our right to defend it.

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[Thorned Rose 0]

Wow! It's interesting that whenever the topic of religion comes up that people are so vocal. So I guess I'll put my two cents in. I used to be a devout catholic but slowly saw the hypocrisy and hated the superiority complex and contradictions inherent in the religion so I decided that I did not want to conform to any one particular set of beliefs. I believe what I know to be true in my heart not what some narrow minded sexist and ignorant man purported to be true 2000 years ago. That statement is not intended to be insults, the words I used are in context. The men that wrote the bible only knew what was true to them and their very small amount of knowledge of the world. They didn't know about the greater world then, just where they lived and what they heard and nowhere the amount that people know today. They were biased because of their own life experiences and culture (in this case very sexist and superior). Yes, I know that they were writing down the word of God as they heard it from him but that also requires perspective. If I say "You're an interesting person" it could be taken that I mean I am attracted to you and therefore I'm interested or I could mean that I think that you are crazy and a very interesting subject to study. Not only could God's word be open to interpretation but so can those mens interpretations be interpreted differently which is quite obviously shown in the amount of debate over the meaning of religious writings. Religious scripture in it's fundamental form is outdated. Once the western world thought that the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth. That was religious 'truth' then that the majority of people firmly believed in and wrote books on. Obviously such ideas have now been quashed. So it is with books like the Bible. I still have great respect for the Bible and many of it's fundamental morals but as an all guiding, historically acurate representation of how life was and should be lived it is extremely inaccurate. The Bible is fundamentally flawed and full of contradications, vagueness and pointed omissions. For example, the bible says that bats are birds. Back then they obviously thought this to be the case, but we know now that bats are mammals. It also says "Thou shalt not commit murder" yet at the same time it says you can stone your brother to death if he sows your field (or some such - sorry I can't quote that one exactly). Here's a site that has a list. And as with all famous works, there seems to be a little plagerism - For example, the story of Noah's Ark is remarkably like the story of Gilgamesh which predates the bible by at least 1000 years. Of course Christians might explain that away by saying that it's the other way around. Then of course there is translation errors. Many argue that reincarnation was taken out of the bible by catholics who didn't want people to think that they had a second chance. My mother (a reborn christian) argues, of course, that that isn't possible because she has the King James version and there's no reincarnation in that. I decided not to bother explaining to her that once upon a time, the catholics had complete control over all versions because they were the only christian religion at that time. Of course I could argue a great many other things (with proof) until the cows come home, but religious people will come up with excuses for every one. My sister takes great delight in tormenting christians with scientific contradictions and even made one guy cry when he couldn't come up with a reason. I'm afraid in my view, the majority of religions were created by people who wanted to feel superior and have more power. As far as I can see, many of the problems of the world and wars in the past, have been caused by people who felt they were superior to others and wanted to exert power over them. Religious beliefs have often just been a 'righteous' excuse to do just this. The fact is religion is just another cult. If you don't like reading that or the thought of cults, the dictionary meaning of cult is "A system or community of religious worship and ritual.". As for giving it a go, I have and so have a lot of other people I've known. All I've seen so far is them running themselves into the ground trying to accomodate their religion - my mum is poor from spending so much of their money on their church, all the while their pastor drives around in a nice car and lives in a nice house (which is the case I've seen with every single one), their marriage and family are falling apart because they are so busy trying to do things for God and their church. I'm yet to see religion do anything for them. I'm not a christian yet I believe in God and I don't believe that you need set beliefs to follow his 'plan'. Or if you want a christian perspective, according to the gospel of St Thomas "The kingdom of god is inside you and all around you, not in mansions made of wood and stone, lift the stone and you will find me...". Well I could go on but I think I've ranted enough - people or christians rather, I'm sure, will only come up with 'explanations' for everything I've said anyway. At any rate, believe what YOU want to, not what someone else tells you to, respect other people even if you don't respect their beliefs, if you want to express your beliefs do so politely, not arrogantly and live life the best you can.

[msdeeva 0]

I think religion and faith are two different things. I don't find anything wrong with having faith in the Diety, but I find certain religions idolation of other figures somewhat unsettling. While I may not agree with it, that doesn't mean I feel comfortable passing judgement on others' religious beliefs. All in all, I feel that if a person is religious and follows certain morales, doesn't go out and cheat, lie, steal, or murder, I'm fine with it.

[CroSpartacus 0]

Thank you VERY much for this statement CroSpartacus.  I believe this was right on the money.  For whatever reason, it seems like our faith can be persecuted and insulted, but once we step up to defend it, people say we're "shoving it down their throats."  I also agree with Wild20 that since I believe I know a truth that can redeem, bring healing, empower, and save so many people, I want to proclaim it.  Obviously I'm not going to proclaim this truth to someone who tells me straightforward "I don't want to hear it!"  Christ Himself didn't do that, He spoke to those who would listen.

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True, but when people such as Atheists or even Protestants who dislike Catholics make statements that attack our church, we are supposed to take that? But the second we start defending our belief's they go on the defensive saying "stop trying to cram your religion down my throat"

 

And in schools some people make such a huge big deal if someone mentions God, as if it is a curse word. The days of Communism are over and we should freely express who we are.

 

I remember last year when I was taking an AP European History class my teacher told us that he received a complaint from someones parents about him teaching us about the history of Christianity. Then my teacher says

 

"How can you expect me to teach these students the history of European Civilization without mentioning Christianity?"

 

He was correct. It is impossible to teach these sort of things without mentioning the way Christianity played its role.

[Thorned Rose 0]

True, but when people such as Atheists or even Protestants who dislike Catholics make statements that attack our church, we are supposed to take that? But the second we start defending our belief's they go on the defensive saying "stop trying to cram your religion down my throat"
And in schools some people make such a huge big deal if someone mentions God, as if it is a curse word. The days of Communism are over and we should freely express who we are.

I think one of the problems is that because it has happened so much (i.e. the bible bashing) people have become sensitized so at the remotest hint of religion, they balk. You have to realize that although there are many christian religions, people tend to lump them altogether. I think that you would find that if ANY religion is mentioned people get their backs up. The fact is, as soon as religious people get defensive people interpret it or perhaps view it as being overly zealous. The majority of christians I've heard or talked to have never said, "well that's your beliefs and you're entitled to them just as I'm entitled to mine" end of story. It's always been well I believe what I believe because of this, this and this, quote the bible and if you gave it a go you would see what I mean. I believe Christians are entitled to believe what they want, I don't have to respect what you believe or even listen to you, I will however show you respect as a person. If you look at it from a non-christians point of view, you will see what I mean. Nobody is superior over any one else - everyone is individual and everyone contributes to society in their own way whether for good or ill.

[CroSpartacus 0]

Well that is basically what Christianity teaches. It is always open to all people and Christians are not supposed to force other people to convert or have the exact same beliefs as them. People are supposed to come up with their own conclusions and have their own relationships with God. Churches are supposed to help give the person a guideline to the beliefs and morals, but overall YOU are to decide which path to take. When a person forces or pressures you to convert that is not Christianity.However things work both ways. Atheists seem to be cramming their beliefs onto religious people and when Christians,Muslims, Jews, or whichever denomination steps up to defend their belief's, the atheist claims that we are "forcing our beliefs on him" or they use the "separation of church and state" remark.

[ComeToLife 0]

I agree wholeheartedly that we should defend our faith if it's attacked. I'll never "attack" atheism, but I'll tell you where I stand and what I believe. I won't hold it against anyone, or discredit anyone because they're an atheist. If someone's willing to tell me about how they don't believe in God, I think it's fair for me to tell them that i DO believe in God. If someone attacks my faith, and says more than just "I don't believe" but instead attacks what my faith teaches, when they don't even believe, I'll step up and defend my faith.

 

For whatever reason, a lot of people do take it that way. I think it's just immaturity when someone attacks our faith, we defend, and they say "stop cramming it down my throat." Unless of course, we keep going...and going...and going...like some Christians I know. That WOULD be considered cramming it down peoples' throats.

 

True, but when people such as Atheists or even Protestants who dislike Catholics make statements that attack our church, we are supposed to take that?  But the second we start defending our belief's they go on the defensive saying "stop trying to cram your religion down my throat"

 

And in schools some people make such a huge big deal if someone mentions God, as if it is a curse word.  The days of Communism are over and we should freely express who we are.

 

I remember last year when I was taking an AP European History class my teacher told us that he received a complaint from someones parents about him teaching us about the history of Christianity.  Then my teacher says

 

"How can you expect me to teach these students the history of European Civilization without mentioning Christianity?"

 

He was correct.  It is impossible to teach these sort of things without mentioning the way Christianity played its role.

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[ComeToLife 0]

There isn't a single contradiction on that list that isn't inaccurate. Just so ya know, tell me some of the contradictions YOU believe are true, and I'll point out their inaccuracy as a "contradiction." Also, you should read a post I wrote about the "secular" evidence for what it claims. It is the MOST accurate of all historical documents ever written or published, and as for the "translation errors", it has fewer than any other ancient text, period. If you decide to post back on this, I'll be MORE than glad to respond and show you all the info I have. I understand where you're coming from, and I respect that you attempt to not insult Christians, and that it seems like you're open to actually learning about the Bible...whether it's true or not, accurate or not, etc.

 

Also, when you say "narrow minded sexist and ignorant" I hope you're not talking about Jesus. Ignorant is about the furthest from truth you can get, and I can understand where you get sexist from, and to be honest...anyone who believes and IS and KNOWS beyond a shadow of a doubt something is true...would seem narrow-minded to anyone else who doesn't believe. I don't think it's proper to call Jesus narrow-minded, especially since in essence, each of us who stand firm on what we believe are "narrow-minded."

 

 

Wow! It's interesting that whenever the topic of religion comes up that people are so vocal. So I guess I'll put my two cents in. I used to be a devout catholic but slowly saw the hypocrisy and hated the superiority complex and contradictions inherent in the religion so I decided that I did not want to conform to any one particular set of beliefs. I believe what I know to be true in my heart not what some narrow minded sexist and ignorant man purported to be true 2000 years ago. That statement is not intended to be insults, the words I used are in context. The men that wrote the bible only knew what was true to them and their very small amount of knowledge of the world. They didn't know about the greater world then, just where they lived and what they heard and nowhere the amount that people know today. They were biased because of their own life experiences and culture (in this case very sexist and superior). Yes, I know that they were writing down the word of God as they heard it from him but that also requires perspective. If I say "You're an interesting person" it could be taken that I mean I am attracted to you and therefore I'm interested or I could mean that I think that you are crazy and a very interesting subject to study. Not only could God's word be open to interpretation but so can those mens interpretations be interpreted differently which is quite obviously shown in the amount of debate over the meaning of religious writings. Religious scripture in it's fundamental form is outdated. Once the western world thought that the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth. That was religious 'truth' then that the majority of people firmly believed in and wrote books on. Obviously such ideas have now been quashed. So it is with books like the Bible. I still have great respect for the Bible and many of it's fundamental morals but as an all guiding, historically acurate representation of how life was and should be lived it is extremely inaccurate. The Bible is fundamentally flawed and full of contradications, vagueness and pointed omissions. For example, the bible says that bats are birds. Back then they obviously thought this to be the case, but we know now that bats are mammals. It also says "Thou shalt not commit murder" yet at the same time it says you can stone your brother to death if he sows your field (or some such - sorry I can't quote that one exactly). Here's a site that has a list. And as with all famous works, there seems to be a little plagerism - For example, the story of Noah's Ark is remarkably like the story of Gilgamesh which predates the bible by at least 1000 years. Of course Christians might explain that away by saying that it's the other way around. Then of course there is translation errors. Many argue that reincarnation was taken out of the bible by catholics who didn't want people to think that they had a second chance. My mother (a reborn christian) argues, of course, that that isn't possible because she has the King James version and there's no reincarnation in that. I decided not to bother explaining to her that once upon a time, the catholics had complete control over all versions because they were the only christian religion at that time. Of course I could argue a great many other things (with proof) until the cows come home, but religious people will come up with excuses for every one. My sister takes great delight in tormenting christians with scientific contradictions and even made one guy cry when he couldn't come up with a reason. I'm afraid in my view, the majority of religions were created by people who wanted to feel superior and have more power. As far as I can see, many of the problems of the world and wars in the past, have been caused by people who felt they were superior to others and wanted to exert power over them. Religious beliefs have often just been a 'righteous' excuse to do just this. The fact is religion is just another cult. If you don't like reading that or the thought of cults, the dictionary meaning of cult is "A system or community of religious worship and ritual.". As for giving it a go, I have and so have a lot of other people I've known. All I've seen so far is them running themselves into the ground trying to accomodate their religion - my mum is poor from spending so much of their money on their church, all the while their pastor drives around in a nice car and lives in a nice house (which is the case I've seen with every single one), their marriage and family are falling apart because they are so busy trying to do things for God and their church. I'm yet to see religion do anything for them. I'm not a christian yet I believe in God and I don't believe that you need set beliefs to follow his 'plan'. Or if you want a christian perspective, according to the gospel of St Thomas "The kingdom of god is inside you and all around you, not in mansions made of wood and stone, lift the stone and you will find me...". Well I could go on but I think I've ranted enough - people or christians rather, I'm sure, will only come up with 'explanations' for everything I've said anyway. At any rate, believe what YOU want to, not what someone else tells you to, respect other people even if you don't respect their beliefs, if you want to express your beliefs do so politely, not arrogantly and live life the best you can.

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[alfredglenstein 0]

There isn't a single contradiction on that list that isn't inaccurate.  Just so ya know, tell me some of the contradictions YOU believe are true, and I'll point out their inaccuracy as a "contradiction." 

I'll take you up on that, if you don't mind the invasion of an outside poster into your dispute. I do agree with you that several can be easily brushed aside. One example asks if God is a God of War or Peace... but that can perhaps be easily solved by saying he is both (though it leaves me with an uneasy feeling in the end, and I think there is more to it.)

Also, in the "Is Jesus equal to or Lesser Than"... Jesus says "I and my Father are one" and then "my Father is greater than I." You can very simply say it only means Jesus IS God, but that God himself is greater. (again a bit uneasy for me, but it more or less works out.)

But I would appreciate it, Come To Life, if you would put this one to rest:

How many stalls and horsemen?
KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

Sounds pretty straightfowardly wrong to me, but I am open to the possibility that you are better versed in the Bible than me. Any way to resolve this particular one?

[HoRuS 0]

I'll take you up on that, if you don't mind the invasion of an outside poster into your dispute. I do agree with you that several can be easily brushed aside. One example asks if God is a God of War or Peace... but that can perhaps be easily solved by saying he is both (though it leaves me with an uneasy feeling in the end, and I think there is more to it.)

 

Also, in the "Is Jesus equal to or Lesser Than"... Jesus says "I and my Father are one" and then "my Father is greater than I." You can very simply say it only means Jesus IS God, but that God himself is greater. (again a bit uneasy for me, but it more or less works out.)

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God is the Intelligence who created all, It isn't a "God of ...".

It's more like God made man, man made war, war kills man.

 

The Jesus-part is kind of a paradox, or so it seems...

Jesus did say "I and my Father are one" wich refers to what I believe that we are all part of God. Children of God.

"my Father is greater than I."... God will always be the Intelligence wich created us and we will never be as good, caring, intelligent, spiritual, wise and so on as God.