Bad Relationship, Partner Trust & Cheating Cheating on your mates?

[msdeeva 0]

Agreed with most of what was said. However:I still feel that the whole divorce issue is still shaky. By what you've said, I'm to walk away with this:A Christian woman, who has submitted herself to God, CANNOT divorce her husband if he threatens her life, or if she finds out that he worships Satan, or whatever. She is not to remarry and have children. BUT, if she does she can alway repent for her sins.Okay. Sure. I kind of tend to agree with your other claim that those who go against acts of love are in violation of God's law (see previous post). Therefore, for me, by that standard, a marriage wrought with violence (or if the person is a Devil worshiper, Sadist, criminally insane, etc.), is against God's Law, therefore null and void. I also found something that seems to blend the whole "eye for an eye"/"turn the other cheek" debate. It makes more sense to me. In addition, I still haven't been able to prove your "nothing is contradictory in the Bible" statement, due to the fact that the Bible describes God to be both vengeful and loving/merciful. I believe him to be both of the two contradictory descriptions. Don't you?

[msdeeva 0]

Oh, and just as a note:When I say vengeful, I do not mean "just." "Just" implies that the punishment fits the crime (i.e., eye for an eye). When I say vengeful, I'm referring to areas in the Bible, when God, goes all out to punish someone or someones. I don't mean, okay this person murdered this person, so he pays with his life. I mean a scenario in which someone did something wrong, and his whole family was destroyed, etc. Just an example. I do believe the scriptures in which he is described as vengeful against his enemies, in which he states that vengeance belongs to him, and so on and so forth. But I also believe that he can be merciful, to his children, and to his enemies as well. He is also described as a jealous God in Nahum 1:2. All of these descriptions are contradictory, yet he is all of these things.

[Joshua 0]

Agreed with most of what was said.  However:

 

I still feel that the whole divorce issue is still shaky.  By what you've said, I'm to walk away with this:

 

A Christian woman, who has submitted herself to God, CANNOT divorce her husband if he threatens her life, or if she finds out that he worships Satan, or whatever.  She is not to remarry and have children.  BUT, if she does she can alway repent for her sins.

Well, I believe she should not and it seems plain to me that Christ would not approve of it, for He said that to do otherwise is adultery. And it does say that our bodies become the temples of the Holy Ghost once we're saved. (1 Corinthians 6:19) But it would be an issue to talk with the person about, not something for me to use to put them down. Church leaders might have to talk with her about getting right with God concerning it. One of the things I've heard preached on is that God forgives but you do not forget. If you are truly repentant (and true repentance abhors its mistakes, doing all it can to turn from them) and ask God for mercy He will forgive you of the mistake (note that He would not bring wrath upon a Christian, He might chastise them as children to bring them to the right way, but the wrath is already paid for, rather it is for the sake of relationship with Him). But because it was not according to God's will you will have missed out on the potential blessings that could have come through following God's willl. God wants the best for our lives.

 

Okay. Sure.  I kind of tend to agree with your other claim that those who go against acts of love are in violation of God's law (see previous post).  Therefore, for me, by that standard, a marriage wrought with violence (or if the person is a Devil worshiper, Sadist, criminally insane, etc.), is against God's Law, therefore null and void.

Oh, I just recalled the perfect verse on the subject! I'm surprised it didn't come to mind before... Oh well, maybe God just didn't want me to see it until now

 

1 Corinthians 7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:

11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

So even in the case of an unbelieving spouse, one is not to depart. And as verse 11 says, if one does depart they should remain unmarried or else be reconciled. Hope that verse helps as well.

 

 

In addition, I still haven't been able to prove your "nothing is contradictory in the Bible" statement, due to the fact that the Bible describes God to be both vengeful and loving/merciful.  I believe him to be both of the two contradictory descriptions.  Don't you?

176490[/snapback]

No, I don't. I don't see why God can't be just in not condoning sin and merciful and loving in trying to pay for that sin. God can't help or else won't change who He is. He is a just and righteous God who utterly abhors evil, and He will not tolerate it. Since it was brought into the world, and with it, the consequence He made for it, death (Romans 5:12), He intends utterly to destroy it even as He destroys Satan whose work it is (1 John 3:8).

 

God doesn't just worry about us, He worries about His whole creation. He wants a perfect creation, like the one He made that's gotten messed up because of sin (Romans 8:22). He can't permit evil to continue to the next creation when He will destroy this universe to make a new one, including new heavens and a new earth. (Isaiah 65:17)

 

It is righteousness and justice that causes Him to destroy evil. It is longsuffering mercy and love that made Him refrain from destroying us all at the beginning so He could come to die on our behalf that we might have a chance to be in the relationship with Him He first intended.

 

 

 

I see the whole situation as a murderous convict standing before a judge. The convict says "Judge, I know you're a good guy, and I believe that since you're a good guy you're going to let me go!" The judge replies, "You're right, I am a good guy, and since I'm so good I'm going to have you locked away so you can't hurt anybody else!"

 

You see, if God permits evil to coexist with righteousness it will by nature persecute the righteous. If God permits those who hate Him to coexist with those who love Him, the haters will end up hurting those who love Him just as they've persecuted and murdered them here on this earth. And so, a righteous God to allow such people to coexist with the righteous, can only let them coexist if they are changed to become righteous. And the only way that can be done is if they trust in Jesus Christ, and being born again, become new people.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Jz

[Frayed 0]

I have cheated and I have been the cheated. It's not a nice feeling at all. It's wrong to cheat on whomever you are with. Even if they don't find out you'll still have a pull of regret on your side. I am sure if you found out your 'other' was cheating on you I'm sure you wouldn't like it at all. What if they contracted an STD in the process and passed it on to you? Even if you aren't in the sex bits with your girlfriend/boyfriend you can pass on herpies and other STD's that don't come from intercourse or foreplay. What if your girlfriend got pregnant or boyfriend got someone pregnant, I am pretty sure you wouldn't like the fact of that either. What if the cheater, this being male got some other woman pregnant... I am sure the girlfriend/boyfriend would not stick around.A lot of things come out of cheating. Whether it be regret, suspicion, finding out, pregnancies, STD's, and etc. It's wrong... I learned it the hard way. So all in all stick to one person. Karma can and most likely will happen.

[msdeeva 0]

Well, I believe she should not and it seems plain to me that Christ would not approve of it, for He said that to do otherwise is adultery.  And it does say that our bodies become the temples of the Holy Ghost once we're saved.  (1 Corinthians 6:19)  But it would be an issue to talk with the person about, not something for me to use to put them down.  Church leaders might have to talk with her about getting right with God concerning it.  One of the things I've heard preached on is that God forgives but you do not forget.  If you are truly repentant (and true repentance abhors its mistakes, doing all it can to turn from them) and ask God for mercy He will forgive you of the mistake (note that He would not bring wrath upon a Christian, He might chastise them as children to bring them to the right way, but the wrath is already paid for, rather it is for the sake of relationship with Him).  But because it was not according to God's will you will have missed out on the potential blessings that could have come through following God's willl.  God wants the best for our lives. 

Oh, I just recalled the perfect verse on the subject!    I'm surprised it didn't come to mind before...  Oh well, maybe God just didn't want me to see it until now  

So even in the case of an unbelieving spouse, one is not to depart.  And as verse 11 says, if one does depart they should remain unmarried or else be reconciled.  Hope that verse helps as well.

 

No, I don't.  I don't see why God can't be just in not condoning sin and merciful and loving in trying to pay for that sin.  God can't help or else won't change who He is.  He is a just and righteous God who utterly abhors evil, and He will not tolerate it.  Since it was brought into the world, and with it, the consequence He made for it, death (Romans 5:12), He intends utterly to destroy it even as He destroys Satan whose work it is (1 John 3:8). 

 

God doesn't just worry about us, He worries about His whole creation.  He wants a perfect creation, like the one He made that's gotten messed up because of sin (Romans 8:22).  He can't permit evil to continue to the next creation when He will destroy this universe to make a new one, including new heavens and a new earth.  (Isaiah 65:17) 

 

It is righteousness and justice that causes Him to destroy evil.  It is longsuffering mercy and love that made Him refrain from destroying us all at the beginning so He could come to die on our behalf that we might have a chance to be in the relationship with Him He first intended. 

I see the whole situation as a murderous convict standing before a judge.  The convict says "Judge, I know you're a good guy, and I believe that since you're a good guy you're going to let me go!"  The judge replies, "You're right, I am a good guy, and since I'm so good I'm going to have you locked away so you can't hurt anybody else!" 

 

You see, if God permits evil to coexist with righteousness it will by nature persecute the righteous.  If God permits those who hate Him to coexist with those who love Him, the haters will end up hurting those who love Him just as they've persecuted and murdered them here on this earth.  And so, a righteous God to allow such people to coexist with the righteous, can only let them coexist if they are changed to become righteous.  And the only way that can be done is if they trust in Jesus Christ, and being born again, become new people. 

 

Hope that helps,

 

Jz

176496[/snapback]

On the divorce issue: duly noted. Boy am I glad I'm married to a great man! I don't have to worry about all that.

 

The Contradictory Issue:

So are you saying that God is not vengeful, as well as omnibenevolent, even though it says it in the Bible? Or are you saying that He destroys that which is evil and against His plan (vengeance), thereby being benevolent to His children/His plan?

 

I also have one last question that I haven't been able to explain to ppl who ask me. Maybe you can help me with this one:

 

If God is omnipotent, if He knows the beginning and the end, why is He at war with Satan? If he knows he is going to win, and the devil will be destroyed (as described in Revelations), why is He warring with the devil whom He could easily destroy?

[astraesboi 0]

mayb it sounds good when u cheat on ur mate and didnt get caught...but wat if ur mate cheats on u???

[Joshua 0]

On the divorce issue:  duly noted.  Boy am I glad I'm married to a great man!  I don't have to worry about all that. 

 

The Contradictory Issue: 

So are you saying that God is not vengeful, as well as omnibenevolent, even though it says it in the Bible?  Or are you saying that He destroys that which is evil and against His plan (vengeance), thereby being benevolent to His children/His plan?

 

I also have one last question that I haven't been able to explain to ppl who ask me.  Maybe you can help me with this one:

 

If God is omnipotent, if He knows the beginning and the end, why is He at war with Satan?  If he knows he is going to win, and the devil will be destroyed (as described in Revelations), why is He warring with the devil whom He could easily destroy?

176510[/snapback]

I'm saying He is vengeful and that He loved us enough to die for us though we weren't worthy of such kindness. (Romans 5:8) A righteous, holy, and just King cannot tolerate rebellion since it would come at the expense of a just kingdom. The loving side of Him however made Him die so we could be changed from rebellious to obedient, from hateful to love, from unrighteous to righteous. Christ doesn't just save us, He changes us, it is often said that Christ is in the business of changing lives, and in my experience at least I have found this utterly true. He doesn't just let you enter eternal life and that's it, He also replaces your desires, your frame of mind, your very soul. You still retain the essence of who you were, but it's as if your heart is now capable of love, your yearnings have changed to do His will rather then your own... Christ doesn't just forgive people, He gives them an extreme makeover of the heart so that they're people not only fit for His kingdom but who will fill it with love and joy and peace, and not hatred or evil. God can't permit the unloving to destroy the righteous universe He wants to create, again, and so the only way we can enter is by being "born again" (John 3:7) by faith so that we are creatures who no longer tend towards evil but to good. That's why I say if someone still dwells in hatred of others and hurts them they are most probably not saved, since love is perhaps the defining evidence of a saved heart, and the Bible says whoever hates their brother is a murderer and has no eternal life in them. (1 John 3:15) And the fulfilling of God's commandments is love, and love does not hurt others. (Romans 13:10)

 

God is omnipotent or all powerful, He is often called the Almighty, but the word "omniscient" is never once used of Him. Also, God is all powerful but cannot be contradictory, and He will not do that which is contrary to His nature. For this reason it is written that it is impossible for God to lie. (Hebrews 6:18)

 

It is clearly possible for God to look into the future, but I have wondered before if it's like looking through a window, He first has to choose to do it. For example, Christ did not inherently know what the Pharisees would be thinking until He chose to look into their thoughts and thus perceive what they were thinking. (Mark 2:8)

 

Whether internally or externally it seems He first had to look. That He was well acquainted with future events as with present seems plain. What I'm saying is I suspect God doesn't know the future unless He decides to look at it.

 

Concerning the devil, it would seem Satan's great influence involved him getting some kind of rulership over the earth, and perhaps why he is called the "prince of this world." (John 12:31) It would also seem Satan was given some power over death as well, for Michael the archangel had a dispute with Satan over the body of Moses, suggesting perhaps Satan had power over that body. Note also that when Christ escaped Satan's grasp from Hell He returned with the keys of Hell and of Death, so apparently He gained power to free the dead so that they were under His control. (Revelation 1:18)

 

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

From the above verse Christ apparently could not be Lord of the dead until He died and rose again. It would seem some power over death was stolen from Satan and that thus Christ arose with the keys of Hell and of death.

 

So my response is, that He couldn't destroy Satan until taking the power of death from him, else the souls of those who died including those of His faithful servants and prophets would not be freed. And so He had first to trick Satan into trying to capture Him in death and then taking the power from Satan, He is now free to destroy the prince of this world. It would seem His only reason for waiting is to see who will side with Him and who will remain with Satan, that He may have a chance to save more that they may enter the kingdom of Heaven.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Notice from cmatcmextra:

Edited as per request

Edited August 20, 2005 by cmatcmextra (see edit history)

[Milovoriel 0]

Huh? I never said anything about staying with them, obviously the law should take its course in separating a man who is physically abusive, I just said there should be no divorce. And God has written His Word in my heart, and I know it to be the only truth I need to live my life by and will never give it up. The Bible is completely and utterly rational.

It's rational to have to stay married to a man who abuses you for the rest of your life, because the bible says so .... what are you talking about? .... so the woman in question couldn't move on with her life, find a partner who deserves her and remarry? .... that's rational? .... what a skewed notion that is! ....

 

and noone's asking you to give up whatever it is that "God" gives you Josh, I'm just suggesting that you try thinking for yourself ....

 

[astraesboi 0]

if you truly love your mate, you wouldn't try to cheat. period.

[dymondgurl 0]

Cheating is always wrong because you are decieving your significant other into thinking they are your one and only and there not. Cheating makes people feel that there not good enough for you and that they are doing something wrong even if there not.

[msdeeva 0]

So my response is, that He couldn't destroy Satan until taking the power of death from him, else the souls of those who died including those of His faithful servants and prophets would not be freed.  And so He had first to trick Satan into trying to capture Him in death and then taking the power from Satan, He is now free to destroy the prince of this world.  It would seem His only reason for waiting is to see who will side with Him and who will remain with Satan, that He may have a chance to save more that they may enter the kingdom of Heaven. 

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Notice from cmatcmextra:

Edited as per request

176632[/snapback]

Very well put. The only thing I have a problem with is this. According to Revelations, God does know that he will win this war, and according to the Bible he has the power to destroy the Devil. And according to your own words: he has the power to look into each of us and know our hearts.

 

If this is so, why does Satan exist, why does this war between them exist, and since he can see the future if he desires to look "in the window," why would there be a need to "see how it all ends" as far as our souls are concerned?

 

I emphasize more on the question of: Why does this war between them exist, if he can destroy Satan, and he has already stated in Revelations that he wins?

[msdeeva 0]

And by the way, Josh:I equate being omnipotent with being all powerful, thus being able to destroy Satan, AND take as many virtuous souls with Him as he chooses. So I don't understand why he couldn't destroy Satan, AND take away Satan's rulership of the world/death/etc, all the while saving as many souls as he wanted.Please explain how God can be omnipotent, and have to "trick" the devil into getting what He wanted, at the same time.I'm really trying to understand.

[simply-me 0]

Well let me tell you one of the worst stories of my life.. I had this boyfriend who was like the best, cute, sexy and MINE but the thing is that everyone wanted him. So there was a time when we had a "break" because i had my exams and didnt have time to be a girlfriend.. then wen i came back to the girlfriend status things wasnt what i would call "all good"One day he invited me to his house at 4pm but i decided to surprise him and get there at like 2pm so there i was at his house and the door was open.. i saw clothes on the floor so i fought his mum was on strike lol and i went to his room and i heard all these strange noises like groaning and i went inside and saw him with my best friend *erica- she was in my post first love, well i was so mad i took off one shoe of mine and threw it at him (yes it hit him ) and it walked home from his house with one shoe on lolCheating isnt good because it breaks inoccent peoples hearts

[jae-unit 0]

Cheating is bad... If you do cheat, that means you don't love your girl/boy friend. So cheating is for people who really want to tap someone. LOL

[sunkist 0]

Cheating is wrong; that is why its called cheating.Whatever two people decide the parameters of their relationship should be is between those two people. If they decide that they can each see other people or sleep with other people, then it is not cheating.Remeber "open marriages" or "open relationships"? Such relationships allowed and acknowledged that the partners were free to have sex with somebody else. It was not a violation of the trust within the relationship.But if two people decide that within the confines of their relationship, they are not going to see other people, and then one of them does so, he/she is breaking the commitment made within that relationship.Sunkist