Should Gay Marriage Be Allowed Should gay marriage be allowed

[canpolitics 0]

Ok, having this debate in another forum I came across this article which demonstrates the curches opinons of marriage throughout the ages.

A few excerpts from an article called: Marriage by Barbara G. Walker=======================================================

The word marriage came from the Latin maritare, union under the
auspices of the Goddess Aphrodite-Mari.  Because the Goddess's
patronage was constantly invoked in every aspect of marriage, Christian
fathers were opposed to the institution.  Origen declared, "Matrimony
is impure and unholy, a means of sexual passion." St. Jerome said the
primary purpose of a man of God was "to cut down with an ax of
Virginity the wood of Marriage".(1)  St. Ambrose said marriage was a
crime against god, because it changed the state of virginity that God
gave every man and woman at birth.(2)

St. Augustine flatly stated that marriage is a sin and St. Paul damned
marriage with faint praise, remarking that to marry was only better
that to burn( 1 cor. 7:9).

Saturninus said God made only two kinds of people, good men and evil
women.  Marriage perpetuated the deviltry of women, who dominated men
through the magic of sex(8).  Centuries later, St. Bernard still
proclaimed that it was easier of a man to bring back the dead to life
than to live with a woman without endangering ones soul.(9)

Priests abandoned the churches' rule of celibacy and began to take
wives during the 5th and 6th centuries.  This continued to the 11th
century, when papal decretals commanded married clergymen to turn their
wives out  of their homes and sell their children as slaves. (5)

The church displayed remarkable reluctance to deal with the mater of
marriage at all.  During the Middle Ages there was no ecclesiastical
definition of a valid marriage nor of any contract to validate one.
Churchmen seemed to have no ideas at all on the subject(6)

The earliest form of Christian marriage was a simple blessing of the
newly wedded, "in facie ecclesiae" --outside the churches closed
doors-- to keep the pollution of lust out of God's house.  This
blessing was a technical violation of canon law, but it became popular
and gradually won status.(7).

There was no sacrament of marriage until the 16th century (3).
Catholic scholars say the wedding ceremony was "imposed on" a reluctant
church, and "nothing is more remarkable that the tardiness with which
liturgical forms for the marriage ceremony were evolved."  It is
perhaps not remarkable to find that these liturgical forms were not
evolved by the church at all, but borrowed from pagan common law (4).

1-William Fielding, Customs of Courtship and Marriage, 82, 114
2-Robert Briffault, The Mothers, Vol 3, 373
3-William Fielding, Customs of Courtship and Marriage, 233
4-Robert Briffault, The Mothers, Vol 3, 248-249
5-Jacobus de. Voragine, The Golden Legend 90-91
6-Ronald Pearsall, The Worm in the Bud , 162-63
7-Encyclopedia Britannica, "Marriage"
8-Vern Bullough,The Subordinate Sex, 103, 112
9-Joseph Cambell, Myths to Live By, 95

It seems the churce is not to strict about its definition of marriage after all. The term marriage has been redefined several times since the bible was written, why is it so difficult to accept this change? Do the arguments made by some of the most well respected christians of early christianity sound familiar? Crime against god, Allowing men to marry women only perpetuates the devilry of women? Any of that sound familiar to anyone else out there?

[jay2aust 0]

to be honest i dont really care if they get married beause its thier choice ...agree? u have to and plus a friend of mine is gay as well and to be honest they r like very nice people and at least they r brave to express thier feelings and stuff like that..u think i have the guts to tell people that i like another guy (but im not *person* so dont worry) ... but yeh... all depends!...free speech!

[round 0]

i'm apathetic. Either way it doesn't change my life in least. I do wonder about all those people who are going around saying that i'll will damage us as a society. I mean i think all of that is very funny indeed. It's certainly given the evangelists and puritans much to talk about.
round

[underworldskateboards 0]

Ok i think being gay is very weird and i don't aprove of it. But i do think that gay marriage should be allowed because gays are people too. It is not their falts they are gay they are probley just born that way. If gay marriage is not allowed then that's very unfair and it's not treating everyone right. I know it would be sick to see to people of the same gender kissing and i would be discusted to see it but it would be unfair to them. It's giving gay people less rights then what we have just because they like their own kind.

[atm 0]

I think Gay Marriage should never be allowed because homosexuality initself is against human nature. If any 2 persons whant to fool around, this is there freedom but marriage and forming a family this is considered too much exagurated and unacceptible.The worst of them all is the right to adopt a child, this action is considered a major violation to that child's fundemental rights to grow up in a normal family and a healthy enviroment and a Gay family is not considered as a healthy enviroment.

[steven 0]

Hold it right there. Before we start talking about the present, we must know what happened in the past. If anyone here is a Christian or a Muslim, they might know the story of Prophet Lut. He was a prophet who lived in the City of Sodom. People who lived in that era were just like the people of today. They were homosexuals. Men had sex with men. Every atrocity that exists today, existed in the era of Prophet Lut. Therefore, Prophet Lut was asked by God Almighty to warn the people of Sodom to stop doing the acts of Satan, or else the wrath of God will cover them. The people didn't heed the warning and continued in their lifestyle. Even Lut's wife, disbelieved in him. The people said that "Bring Allah's (God's)Torment upon us if you are one of the truthful!" (Ch 29:29 Quran). And so, a day came, when three angels came to the house of Lut and informed him that he must leave the town because the greatest torment is to arise. Prophet Lut and his family were saved by God Almighty, however, his wife, was not saved becuase she was a disbeliever. Now to the present.If we start "legalizing" Gay Marriage, the torment of God will arise upon us too. If anyone denies the story of Prophet Lut, please ask any anthropologist, and they will tell you too. For it is our duty, to understand what happened to the people of past, when they did the same atrocities as us too. People, we need to think about this issue.As for my point of view, I can completely say that Gay Marriages Should not be Allowed, because it will bring a great deal of torment on not only the people who are gay, but on the people who agree that Gay Marriages should be allowed.Any other comments are welcome.Thanks.

[Milovoriel 0]

The difference between heterosexuals and homosexuals is intrinsically what they do in the privacy of their own bedrooms .... and that's it!

 

.... and let me tell you, based on a lifetimes worth of experience that what many heterosexuals get up to in the privacy of their own bedrooms ain't so "normal" .... many, many hetero's have their own embarassing fetishes, but it's OK, it's kinda wholesome, because as long as it's with a person of the "opposite sex", that's all that matters to you and your God ....

 

I'm choking on the hypocrisy ....

 

a man and a woman luv each other and marry .... morally good

a man and a man luv each other and marry (or a woman and woman) .... morally bad .... why? .... because of sex!

 

get a grip! ....

 

you keep on preaching those bible verses if it makes ya happy .... I'll just keep on being the open-minded and loving mother of a gay son! .... or do you think I should disown him for his immoral/impure ways? .... 'cause by accepting him, I'm encouraging him, right? .... and that means I'll be "damned" too ....

 

religious conviction = intolerance .... my, my, this thread is quite the catharsis! ....

[canpolitics 0]

Hold it right there.     

 

Before we start talking about the present, we must know what happened in the past.

 

 

<<SNIP>>

 

 

If we start "legalizing" Gay Marriage, the torment of God will arise upon us too. If anyone denies the story of Prophet Lut, please ask any  anthropologist, and they will tell you too. For it is our duty, to understand what happened to the people of past, when they did the same atrocities as us too. People, we need to think about this issue.

 

As for my point of view, I can completely say that Gay Marriages Should not be Allowed, because it will bring a great deal of torment on not only the people who are gay, but on the people who agree that Gay Marriages should be allowed.

 

Any other comments are welcome.

 

Thanks.     

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I have spoken with anthropologists, I haven't heard of one who can verify the story of Sodom and Gamora (sp?). For those who are interested however the story of Lot (as he is known in the bible) is Genisis Chapter 19 I believe. If you know of any anthropoligical evidence of Sodom then please post it, I would be interested in seeing such evidence.

 

I think Gay Marriage should never be allowed because homosexuality initself is against human nature. If any 2 persons whant to fool around, this is there freedom but marriage and forming a family this is considered too much exagurated and unacceptible.

The worst of them all is the right to adopt a child, this action is considered a major violation to that child's fundemental rights to grow up in a normal family and a healthy enviroment and a Gay family is not considered as a healthy enviroment.

 

In what way is homosexuality against human nature? Homosexual behaviour has been observed in almost every spiecies on the planet, one theory holds that it is natures way of maintaining a stable population. Regardless, I am assuming you mean it is against human nature because it is sexual release without producing offspring, well oral sex is also the same and against human nature in this manner, as is masterbation. Are you going to prevent people who engage in oral sex and/or masterbation from marrying and adopting children?

 

By the way who exactly says that a gay family is not considered as a healthy environment? You know you can't take an entire segmant of the population and make broad generalizations about them without considering facts. How many childeren live in actually physically abusive families? How many of these families are considered normal by the conventions you mentioned? How many cases can you state of a child raised by homosexuals (note homosexuals not pedophiles) where the child was abused in any way (physically or mentally). Oh and before you try and claim this doesn't happen, there are many children who have been raised and/or are being raised by gay families, sure the gay partner may not have been able to adopt said child, but the biological parent is still free to engage in homosexual lifestyle.

[Saint_Michael 3]

all i have to say is that someone in the church was disgusted with what the romans where doing back in the day of the roman empire, maybe that show the whole gay thing came upall i have to say do what you want, also on the child thing i do believe gay couples adopt as well, thus your procreation stays intact.

[LeAnn Rimes My Angel 0]

Marriage is a human-made thing. Nothing else in nature gets "married", so I say sure, why not? It doesn't cause harm to anyone else around them, so I think gays should be entitled to getting married if they choose to. The one thing I think is, they should not be entitled to bennefits for having a child, unless they adopt one.

[slatterly 0]

The thing about taking the Bible and saying "God says this is wrong" is that no one can really know what the Bible originally said. Consider the 'thou shalt not lie with man as you do with women' (paraphrased) from Leviticus; looking at the 'original' Hebrew, this could really mean 'do not sleep with men while you sleep with women' (i.e. if you're going to be gay don't pretend to be straight) or even 'don't sleep with a man in the same bed as you sleep with a woman'.

 

Similarly, was there ever any explicit statement that the sin of Sodom (commonly called sodomy) is actually homosexual sex, as our modern definition claims? The Sodomites were guilty of a lot of things. Sodomy could mean rape or not respecting strangers. There was no mention in the Bible that I can remember that said "sodomy is the practice of homosexual sex".

 

And even looking at the 'original' Hebrew (and other languages) isn't always fail-safe. A lot of these stories were almost definitely started by oral tradition, and so naturally went through a lot of mutations and embellishments before they were written down (which may have caused all the various contradictions - and they are there. An example that springs to mind are the two different creation accounts in Genesis 1 and 2, which put things into two quite seperate orders. The Skeptic's Annotated Bible lists several more of these). The texts must have been copied out countless times if they've survived 'till today, and so have been at the mercy of their transcribers. Maybe some passages were blurred or illegible, and the scribe had to make a guess at what they said. Maybe someone down the line just really wasn't comfortable with homosexuality. Taking a verse and saying "this says that [insert concept here] is wrong is really like that woman who denounced foreign languages by saying "If the English language was good enough for the prophet Isaiah, it's good enough for me".

 

I heartily agree that religion is a personal choice and we have no right to tell someone to stop believing what they do. But if it expects that treatment from others, then the church can't go around saying that the state can't marry who it wants. I would never expect a church to marry a homosexual couple against its wishes, but at the same time I heartily support the state's decision to pass gay marriage laws. I'm very much in favor of gay marriage and I'm very happy that my country has allowed it, but again, if we started telling churches they had to do the same then I would not support that at all.

 

Personally, I'm not religious, but I think there's a good chance that Jesus existed at one point or another (his status as Son of God or mortal prophet is debatable, and not realy relevant here). I think that Jesus was a pretty swell guy, and that if he were around today he would be hanging out with the gays and the trannies and all the other social rejects. That's exactly what he did two thousand years ago, and exactly what he preached - love and acceptance.

[slatterly 0]

(Addendum to my previous post)

 

What could I guy see in a boy ? I don't understand that can someboyd tell me that ?

 

You might as well ask what a girl sees in a boy - I suspect the answers would be somewhat similar. I can't speak for everyone, of course, but what attracts me about the male figure as opposed to the female is musculature. A traditional masculine figure just looks more real and healthy than the typical stick-thin model. If you ask me, I can't see what guys see in girls. Guess it's just a matter of perspective.

 

 

(As a side note, I'm often amused to see people in these kinds of arguments say "yes, I support gay marriage - but I'm not gay, of course". I guess I'm just an anomaly, then? Heh.)

[ashton 0]

I'm new to this forum and do not know whether this has been discussed or not, so I'll dive right in and start something controversial.

 

This thread is really about whether gay marriage should be allowed, not whether it is right or not. I think to disagree but still allow something is the ultimate example of tolerance.

 

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I am very supportive of homosexual marriages. It doesn't bother me at all. I have a lot of non-heterosexual friends and associates. The way I see it is that happiness is all everyone really wants. And if a human being finds the happiness they been looking for another human being of the same gender than so be it. Who are we to say that its wrong? Because when it all comes down to it the only one to judge is God (or whom ever you believe in).

[odomike 0]

Now this is realy a very controversial topic in this thread. For me, I feel that gay marriages should be abolished. here comes my reasons.I know this guy whom i once met in a cyber cafe. I was only chanced to sit next to him in that cybercafe and the next thing I knew was that this guy started trying to woo me. EVen when i told him that I am not that sorta person and I already have a girlfriend whom I am very serious with and will be getting married to in due time, this guy still didnt relent.After some time, I started dodging him and always felt reluctant to meet him or talk to him whenever the opportunity arises.Logic: if these gay marriages are allowed, definitely, the gays will try to get more disciples to join their flocks of gays and who else are they going to come to? you and me who are the heterosexuals. Well, i am still friendly with this homosexual but I try to keep him at arm's lenght less people starts thinking that I am also a homosexual like him. That, for sure, wont go donw well with my girlfriend and I love her a lotn and will do anything to have her.So as you guys will reason with me, they can end up disrupting heterosexual marriages. And by the way, it is immoral and bad in the eyes of God our creator and therefore should not be allowed.

[ManOfSTEEL 0]

Well, sad to say that it's already happening now, although some are against homesexual but some are not. I my opinion and belief, homosexual should not be allowed, but some country are accepted and adopted already this kind of relationship, not to mention any but I know and I'm sure you guys knew it already which country I am talking about.I my country the government and the catholic church are against homosexual, men should be for woman only and woman is for me, I mean for men only .We are now living in the world wherein, everything is possible, why should you ask about this while its already happening?As a human being, we have all the chances of chosing, wether its against the law of God, some married the one who is already committed to someone else, woman married and woman, men married a men, these are all homosexual, but what can we do?They chose this and they are happy living on it. For some reasons, I understand those who's in this kind of relationship, but for some reasons also, I can't even think why they should like it.. But again, homosexual should not be allowed.