Should Gay Marriage Be Allowed Should gay marriage be allowed

[canpolitics 0]

Hmm...  how did I miss replying to this topic?  I'd been thinking I had for some reason...    oh well...

 

Yes, the Bible does say homosexuality is a sin (read Romans chapter 1) and punishable by death.  All sin however is guilty of death and what homosexuals need isn't monitoring of their sins since they can never be good enough to reach Heaven just as none of us can, we all fall short of the requirements by God.  What they need is to be forgiven of their sins by admitting they are wrong, without which no one will reach the Father-only by Jesus Christ. 

 

At the same time, there is no excuse for a Christian to be a homosexual since we are freed from the lusts and sins which once enslaved us to them once we are crucified with Christ and born again. 

 

Fornication is the only sin that can be against a Christian's body the temple of the Holy Ghost.

As for the Bible being open to interpretation, please show me one thing not involving prophecy and how you think it is open to interpretation.

 

A perfect society would outlaw homosexual marriage but our society is not perfect because its rulers are not perfect, they can't even ensure the right people get put on death row.  This is why there will never be a perfect government before Christ comes to govern, a perfect government must have a perfect ruler. 

 

Without, you simply have the situation of the Pharisees, those who are sinners also, wanting to stone other sinners.  Only God is just, only God can administer justice justly.

161451[/snapback]

A single vague passage, wow that is good (sarcasm alert). Actually the bible does NOT state that it is punishable by death but rather that they deserve death, surely you can appreciate the difference. Even at that homosexuality was just ONE of the reasons the people spoken about in Romans chapter 1 deserve death, observer verse 29-32

 

" 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

 

30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

 

31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

 

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

 

It is not so much the homosexuality that is spoken agianst, but fornication in general, murder, DEBATE (what's that god hates debate?), deceit and whisperers. This is your example as to where the bible speaks out against homosexuality? And by the way it seems that it only condemns CHRISTIAN homosexuals, not homosexuals of other religions.

 

The bible also states that any seed (read seamen) spilt while not for the purpose of procreation is a sin, which means that masterbation is a sin as well.

 

You want passages from the bible that are open to interpretation, here you go:

 

Deuteronomy 25:5-9

This passage states that if you have a married brother, and you live with them and your brother dies you HAVE to marry you sister in-law.

 

Matthew 18:19

This passage states that if two people agree on wanting something on earth God will grant them this.

 

Matthew 26:52

This passage states that all who take up the sword will perish by it.

 

Mark 16:17-18

This passage states that all believers are able to handle any snake and drink poison without ill effect.

 

Galatians 1:8-9

Paul's gospel overrides that of an Angel of God?

 

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

Stone your rebelious sons.

 

Not a single one of these passages involves prophecy, they are (with the exception of the two matthew passages and the Mark passage) biblical law.

[canpolitics 0]

I already gave one example (Romans chapter 1) earlier but since you want further evidence:

As I said before, that is the thing, we're all sinners who deserve death, homosexuality is just one of the long line of things that will earn us death.  We are all guilty and it's why God Himself had to come to save us if we were to be saved.  And He had to come as a man to pay for the sins of mankind as a race that "whosoever believeth in Him might not perish but have everlasting life." 

 

I already stated this in the above post, how monitoring sins and what is and isn't allowed here isn't going to get you into Heaven since we can never be good enough.  So homosexuality sends you to Hell just like telling a little white lie or hating another person sends you to Hell.  However, forcing religious institutions to go against what they know to be wrong in forcing them to institute marriages between couples the Bible doesn't recognize as such is also wrong. 

 

If homosexual couples want to marry as long as churches don't have to do marry them according to law I will not oppose it.  Just hating someone else is equated to murder and how can we control the thoughts of another?  No matter how hard we try we can never be good enough to reach Heaven nor can we help anyone us be good enough either.  What I'm saying is keeping homosexuals from marrying isn't doing them any favor since what they need is to find mercy through Jesus Christ by realizing they are sinning and to turn from those sins to follow after Him that they may have eternal life.  If someone doesn't submit in such a way and willfully sins against God I would question whether they ever truly allowed Christ to become Lord and Saviour of their life in the first place, and were ever born again at all.  Salvation is a heart transaction, but we can see the fruits/results of that changed heart. 

As for graven images, the word we've interpreted as "graven images" is the Hebrew pecel, here's the definition for it from Strong's Hebrew Dictionary:

So the image would have to be a carved idol it would seem, not just a drawing or sculpture automatically. 

I don't begin to understand the justification behind worshipping statues of Mary but know from experience that Catholics will simply try to defend it by saying they're not "worshipping" them but just showing honor or something like that.  I don't agree with it and to get their reasoning for it I guess you'd have to talk to one of them.  *shrugs*

161504[/snapback]

Ah, but you are completely ignoring the second part of the graven images commandment "or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above", this means that any likeness of anything at all is strictly forbidden.

 

Also even if you leave it as a carved idol, what is the cross, but a carved idol.

[pensive-muse 0]

I'm really unsure on this. I don't know about calling it marriage, but I do believe that there should be civic/l union for homosexual couples. It's not fair to me that a man and women married can get gov. benefits, but a homosexual couple that would be married if it weren't for laws against it can't. But of course, it could be your opinion that if they're homosexual they shouldn't receive benefits, which I suppose is understandable, even if I don't agree with it. I just think it's such a touchy and opinion-oriented topic that it's really hard to speak on with an open mind (and not just for me)

[canpolitics 0]

<<<SNIP>>
And finally, with the Deuteronomy verse, as I already explained, that deals with the Old Testament Law, and yes it is perfectly just but only God is just enough to pronounce such a sentence.  If we try we are as the Pharisees who wanted to stone the adulteress.  We cannot be justified by the Law being sinners nor can we administer it properly.  This is why God says vengeance is His, not ours, and why He brought in the New Testament and fulfilled the Old. 

Well then that just goes to show you that the bible is open to interpretation.

You state that the Old testament laws are no long aplicable, yet you quote Leviticus as the best examples of condemning homosexuality. your other two quotes do not specifically condmen homosexuality.

Notice from BuffaloHELP:

Fixed quote tags.

Edited July 16, 2005 by BuffaloHELP (see edit history)

[Joshua 0]

A single vague passage, wow that is good (sarcasm alert). Actually the bible does NOT state that it is punishable by death but rather that they deserve death, surely you can appreciate the difference. Even at that homosexuality was just ONE of the reasons the people spoken about in Romans chapter 1 deserve death, observer verse 29-32

 

Punishable by death:

 

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

 

You obviously didn't comprehend that I gave only one instance of what the Bible says about it since if I gave more people probably wouldn't check them. But since you so obviously want them:

 

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

 

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

 

It is not so much the homosexuality that is spoken agianst, but fornication in general, murder, DEBATE (what's that god hates debate?), deceit and whisperers. This is your example as to where the bible speaks out against homosexuality? And by the way it seems that it only condemns CHRISTIAN homosexuals, not homosexuals of other religions.

 

The bible also states that any seed (read seamen) spilt while not for the purpose of procreation is a sin, which means that masterbation is a sin as well.

 

The word interpreted by us as debate is the Greek eris, here's your definition, examine it:

2054.  eriv  eris,  er'-is

Search for 2054 in KJV

 

of uncertain affinity; a quarrel, i.e. (by implication) wrangling:--contention, debate, strife, variance.

 

The Bible condemns all as guilty and worthy of death regardless of beliefs/religion.

 

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

 

You're right, fornication period is considered a sin and there are a lot of things worthy of death, it is why I continually stress that not allowing homosexuals to marry doesn't do any good since none of us can be good enough to find eternal life. What we need is to find forgiveness through Jesus Christ and to turn from our sins to let Him be Lord and Master of our lives.

 

You want passages from the bible that are open to interpretation, here you go:

 

Deuteronomy 25:5-9

This passage states that if you have a married brother, and you live with them and your brother dies you HAVE to marry you sister in-law.

 

You're getting into the statutes of the Law which we are no longer under. I can give you a more thorough discourse on it if you want, but I'll try to explain the subject as briefly as possible here:

 

First of all, Christ didn't come to destroy the Law but to fulfil it:

 

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

The Old Testament or covenant existed in carnal commandments and served both as a symbol of the better covenant by Christ that which was to come and to provide judgment of sins until mercy should be revealed as an alternative to judgement through Jesus Christ.

I've highlighted the main parts for you to see below:

 

Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

 

Because the first covenant or testament, the Old Testament made with Israel was found to have fault a new one was brought in by which the doers could finally draw near to God without fear of punishment for their sins since those sins were paid for. There's a reason they call it the "Old Testament" and the "New Testament." The 10 Commandments are reaffirmed by Christ and several parts of the Old Testament are reaffirmed as good in the New Testament like not eating meat with the blood or meats offered to idols since it is a bad testimony... but with the coming in of the New Testament the Old is ready to pass away.

 

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

 

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

As you can see, the Old Testament showed what was wrong. The New Testament showed how we can get right with God.

 

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.Matthew 18:19This passage states that if two people agree on wanting something on earth God will grant them this.Matthew 26:52This passage states that all who take up the sword will perish by it.Mark 16:17-18This passage states that all believers are able to handle any snake and drink poison without ill effect.Galatians 1:8-9Paul's gospel overrides that of an Angel of God?Deuteronomy 21:18-21Stone your rebelious sons.

Not a single one of these passages involves prophecy, they are (with the exception of the two matthew passages and the Mark passage) biblical law.

 

With Matthew 18:19 that is spoken to His disciples and obviously there are quite a few conditions for being Christ's disciple, you have to take up your cross and follow Him, abandoning family, friends, belongings, etc... all to do Christ's will. You will find that God's promises always seem to come with conditions if you look.

 

As for Mark 16:17-18 the word we've interpreted as sword is machaira or judicial punishment. As Christ has said, with what judgement we judge others God will also judge us.

3162.  macaira  machaira,  makh'-ahee-rah Search for 3162 in KJV probably feminine of a presumed derivative of 3163; a knife, i.e. dirk; figuratively, war, judicial punishment:--sword.  See Greek 3163 (mache)

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

You can see your mistake now right? The signs follow believers as a whole, there will be casting out of devils, speaking with new tongues, taking up of serpents, etc... just as the apostles did and others have done. This does not however mean that all will do it, for that isn't what it says.

 

With Galatians 1:8-9, you forget that both Satan and the devils are angels from Heaven, and the Gospel isn't given by man's power but by inspiration of God.

 

And finally, with the Deuteronomy verse, as I already explained, that deals with the Old Testament Law, and yes it is perfectly just but only God is just enough to pronounce such a sentence. If we try we are as the Pharisees who wanted to stone the adulteress. We cannot be justified by the Law being sinners nor can we administer it properly. This is why God says vengeance is His, not ours, and why He brought in the New Testament and fulfilled the Old.

 

 

Notice from KuBi:

Quote tags fixed?

Notice from rejected & BuffaloHELP:

Fixed. Looks like only 10

tags allowed per post.

Edited July 16, 2005 by BuffaloHELP (see edit history)

[ArcaneSpirit 0]

I'm not a religious person, I'll be the first to admit, and seeing how "marriage" is a religious thing, I couldn't really care less if we were able to be married. A civil union is just as good, gives the same rights as a married couple without the church being involved in any form.

 

As far as the bible is concerned, it's FICTION! It is full of misleading information and contradicts itself numerous times. Whomever wrote the thing should have been shot. Because of this simple story there have been many wars, fanatics, and prejudices. Personally, I would love to see all bibles burned and done with. But, hey! To each their own. If people want to believe in the dam*ed thing, let them. As long as they keep it to themselves...

 

Notice from Klass:

If you swear again, I will change it to a funny and hilarious statement that will coincide with what your writing

Edited July 15, 2005 by Klass (see edit history)

[Joshua 0]

I'm not a religious person, I'll be the first to admit, and seeing how "marriage" is a religious thing, I couldn't really care less if we were able to be married. A civil union is just as good, gives the same rights as a married couple without the church being involved in any form.

 

As far as the bible is concerned, it's FICTION! It is full of misleading information and contradicts itself numerous times. Whomever wrote the dam*ed thing should have been shot. Because of this simple story there have been many wars, fanatics, and prejudices. Personally, I would love to see all bibles burned and done with. But, hey! To each their own. If people want to believe in the dam*ed thing, let them. As long as they keep it to themselves...

161713[/snapback]

I don't suppose you'd care to elaborate on these so-called contradictions?

 

Also, what makes you think that those who were behind any wars were Christians seeing as Christ's great commands were to love God and love others?

 

And finally, you'll probably want to lay off with the swearing, Xisto doesn't take that too lightly.

[Kubi 0]

Ok for starters, Arcane, your post was QUITE offencive. I suggest next time you post you keep some of that to yoursefl please. We do respect your opinion here Arcane, but you're taking it way to far with some of those comments.And for the topic, I think gay marrages should be alowed, I see nothing wrong with them, people should be alowed to express themselfs how they want. People look down on gays but really they're just the same as everyone else, they just have different "preferences" lets call them.

[ArcaneSpirit 0]

First off; Sorry that you found what I had to say offensive. It wasn't my intention to have my opinion become that. But I do have a very strong opinion on the topics involving religions of any origin. As for an example of the bible contradicting itself, I can give you a one or two. One being; how in the 10 comandments "thou shalt not kill," while later it goes on to say "An eye for an eye" which by any theory means that if someone killed your sister, you have the right to kill theirs... A kill for a kill basically... That's just one. Klass, I have no idea where you seem to have gotten the idea that I swore anywhere within my previous post, unless you consider "damned" a swear word... In that case, you are mistaken, because it is not a swear word. Other than that particular word, which many seem to think of as a swear word, I didn't use any others.

[Klass 0]

Klass, I have no idea where you seem to have gotten the idea that I swore anywhere within my previous post, unless you consider "damned" a swear word... In that case, you are mistaken, because it is not a swear word. Other than that particular word, which many seem to think of as a swear word, I didn't use any others.

161776[/snapback]

This is off topic and will be the last we speak of it.

 

when you type dam*ed that is against the TOS.

So by me saying what I did in the note was correct.

If you want to argue with me then I can simply warn you and deny your posting ability for 1 to 24 hours. whichever you want.

[ckuehner 0]

I'll put my two cents in on this... I noticed one of you mentioned that if God made the rest of us... he must have made Gays also.Well... God did create man... however, he also gave us a thing called Free Will. God created us... but God did not have anything to do with how we choose to behave. If you choose to be Gay... don't think for even a moment that God approves of that decision. Just as I am sure that God does not approve of that illegal MP3 that you downloaded last week, or the swear words that you used yesterday, or the impure thoughts that you had last night.Think about this for a moment... if God had actually intended for a Man to be with a Man... or a Woman to be with a Woman... How come pregnancy can only occur when both Man and Woman are involved? Also... why would God have created both Man and Woman if God had intended for same sex couples?I could probably spend days coming up with reasons why Gay and Lesbian relationships are wrong.If two people want to engage in homosexual relations... that is there choice. Don't do it in front of me.. and Don't do it in front of my children. Do it in the privacy of your own home. You can deal with the consequences.As for marriage... the idea of a same sex marriage goes against everything that I was brought up to believe marriage stood for. Allowing same sex marriage cheapens the entire thing.Call me old fashioned if you want.I have always believed that people can do whatever they want to do... On the condition that what they do does not interfere with other peoples lives, and does not put anyone else in danger. This issue is suddenly interfering with a lot of peoples lives. And nobody will ever convince me that homosexual relations are in any way normal, natural or "OK with God"You asked for my opinion... there it is.

[Joshua 0]

As for an example of the bible contradicting itself, I can give you a one or two. One being; how in the 10 comandments "thou shalt not kill," while later it goes on to say "An eye for an eye" which by any theory means that if someone killed your sister, you have the right to kill theirs... A kill for a kill basically... That's just one.

 

161776[/snapback]

The eye for an eye meant only for the one who did it, if they killed someone they were guilty of death themselves. If they took out someone's eye theirs was worthy to be destroyed as well. This is very clear from:

 

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

According to the Law this system of judgement is a perfectly just one. But as I explained in my last post, to judge according to the Law you must be without sin yourself, and only one man, Jesus Christ, has ever fit that bill.

 

This is why vengeance is God's, not ours, and we are not to kill. The Law's sentences can be justly administered by God only, this is why Christ said:

 

Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Any institutions including those who falsely call themselves Christian which say man has the right to take life or execute sentences/judgements upon other people directly oppose Christ and what He has told us.

 

 

 

I'll put my two cents in on this...

 

I noticed one of you mentioned that if God made the rest of us... he must have made Gays also.

 

Well... God did create man... however, he also gave us a thing called Free Will. God created us... but God did not have anything to do with how we choose to behave. If you choose to be Gay... don't think for even a moment that God approves of that decision. Just as I am sure that God does not approve of that illegal MP3 that you downloaded last week, or the swear words that you used yesterday, or the impure thoughts that you had last night.

 

Think about this for a moment... if God had actually intended for a Man to be with a Man... or a Woman to be with a Woman... How come pregnancy can only occur when both Man and Woman are involved? Also... why would God have created both Man and Woman if God had intended for same sex couples?

 

I could probably spend days coming up with reasons why Gay and Lesbian relationships are wrong.

 

If two people want to engage in homosexual relations... that is there choice. Don't do it in front of me.. and Don't do it in front of my children. Do it in the privacy of your own home. You can deal with the consequences.

 

As for marriage... the idea of a same sex marriage goes against everything that I was brought up to believe marriage stood for. Allowing same sex marriage cheapens the entire thing.

 

Call me old fashioned if you want.

 

I have always believed that people can do whatever they want to do... On the condition that what they do does not interfere with other peoples lives, and does not put anyone else in danger. This issue is suddenly interfering with a lot of peoples lives. And nobody will ever convince me that homosexual relations are in any way normal, natural or "OK with God"

 

You asked for my opinion... there it is.

161828[/snapback]

Great post! I agree wholeheartedly that while homosexual relations are not ok according to the Bible we are not to impose restrictions about them but let vengeance be God's. Indeed, a Christian nation would not allow homosexual marriage or at the least recognize it as binding, since marriage in itself is that recognized in the Old Testament as:

 

Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Adam didn't set the tone by saying a man should leave his parents to cleave unto his partner, he said to cleave unto his wife, and he did this in reference to Eve as a woman, which is why he used the word "therefore."

 

However, this is most certainly not a Christian nation and if homosexuals want to marry I'm not going to oppose it as long as the government doesn't try to force churches to marry homosexuals when it goes against their beliefs.

 

God doesn't condone such a thing but He hasn't commanded us to execute His judgement but to administer His mercy and love, and to:

 

Romans 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

[karlo 0]

I think Gay Marriage is not bad... because there's no law or no saying from the bible that Gay Marriage is literally not allowed...

[Joshua 0]

I think Gay Marriage is not bad... because there's no law or no saying from the bible that Gay Marriage is literally not allowed...

162007[/snapback]

Karlo, I've already posted these verses several times now, here they are again:

 

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

 

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

[canpolitics 0]

I'm not a religious person, I'll be the first to admit, and seeing how "marriage" is a religious thing, I couldn't really care less if we were able to be married. A civil union is just as good, gives the same rights as a married couple without the church being involved in any form.

 

As far as the bible is concerned, it's FICTION! It is full of misleading information and contradicts itself numerous times. Whomever wrote the thing should have been shot. Because of this simple story there have been many wars, fanatics, and prejudices. Personally, I would love to see all bibles burned and done with. But, hey! To each their own. If people want to believe in the dam*ed thing, let them. As long as they keep it to themselves...

 

 

I know you have already been chastised for this post, but I thought that being as I have been one of the most critical posters opposed to religion on this thread that I should make my opinion known. What you have posted here is wrong, it is hatred disguised as acceptance. You preach a violation of a basic right, the right to religion. Every man has that right, as long as they are not hurting others they have the right to pray to whatever god they so chose, try and take that away and I will fight with even the most devote religious fanatic whom I would normally be at odds with. The bible may be fiction to the likes of you and me, but to many it is gospel truth, and they have the right to believe that so long as they do not impose thier will on me or you. Remember this when you post your views on religion, it is not the bible that is at fault, but those who take the bible too far and justify it for restricting the rights of others or killing others. I am sure that even jzyehoshua agrees with me on this point, and I don't think jzyehoshua and I would agree on much else.

 

 

 

<<SNIP>>

 

If two people want to engage in homosexual relations... that is there choice. Don't do it in front of me.. and Don't do it in front of my children. Do it in the privacy of your own home. You can deal with the consequences.

 

As for marriage... the idea of a same sex marriage goes against everything that I was brought up to believe marriage stood for. Allowing same sex marriage cheapens the entire thing.

 

Call me old fashioned if you want.

 

I have always believed that people can do whatever they want to do... On the condition that what they do does not interfere with other peoples lives, and does not put anyone else in danger. This issue is suddenly interfering with a lot of peoples lives. And nobody will ever convince me that homosexual relations are in any way normal, natural or "OK with God"

 

You asked for my opinion... there it is.

Your opinion is your own, and just as valid as anyone elses. However I must ask you, name a single homosexual that WANTS to "do it in front of you"? They do wish only to do it in the privacy of thier own home, however they want the right to be recognized by law as a couple. What right do you have to restrict them from this. In what way does two people loving each other and pledging thier love for each other in marriage cheapen the institute of marriage? I will not call you old fashioned, I will however call you blinded by beliefs that have been hammered into you.

 

In what way does two men or two women wishing to marry interfere with other peoples lives, I assure you never has the wedlock of any other couple affected my own marriage in any way (and BTW there are Gay Marriages allowed where I am). I don't give a fig if you think homosexuality is natural normal or ok with your god, however I do give a fig if you wish to restrict the rights of another human just because of something they choose (or are depending on what you think), when such a belief (or natural feature) is hurting no other person. This is NEVER ok.

 

<<SNIP>>

 

Karlo, I've already posted these verses several times now, here they are again:

 

 

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

 

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

 

None of those passages forbids Same Sex Marriage. The bible may (and I do mean may, because I do not believe that the argument for the bible disliking homosexuals any more than heterosexuals is far from clear cut) speak out against homosexuality, but it does not condone the marriage of homosexuals explicitly. Even if it did it is not the place of any man on this earth, as you so eloquently pointed out time and time again, to judge another unless he himself is without sin, as such it is not the right of any man on this earth to forbid the marriage of any two persons who can find someone with the authority to wed them that will do so.